DryEyeRelief
Member
iirc you were the one that made the observation last evo that fighting games hit their ceiling in terms of widespread appeal.
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Fighting Tournament Weekend: Norcal Regionals CEO Dreamland Hypespotting 04/14-04/16
- Thread starter Tripon
- Start date
iirc you were the one that made the observation last evo that fighting games hit their ceiling in terms of widespread appeal.
dang
The community has no obligation to prop up trash games. I can't speak for Starcraft 2 specifically as I never played it (although the impression that I get was that its reputation was absolutely deserved) but SF5 absolutely deserves to get dumpstered. Frankly, life is too short for bad games. If issues with the game won't be addressed, the community only has two choices -- play the game as it is or move on to something else. That and people can only fake passion for so long (and that tends to be directly correlated with how much money is involved).
I don't want to see fighting games as an overall genre shrink, but SF5 as it currently is deserves nothing.
Why does it deserve nothing lol - that's highly subjective at best. If that WAS the case why would people still be playing this allegedly "bad" game? Also don't say money because SFxT tried to be a success but look what happened there. If you are taking about arcade and the little extras here and there then I understand but the gameplay aspects of SFV that need it to be competitive is fine. As for the community having a choice, I don't think you are in position to be dictating that as you clearly don't follow the game.
Honestly? Inertia, mainly. Between the mechanics of the game and the general branding. There are people who enjoy playing fighting games and play it because it's the big thing, but I don't really know anyone who legitimately loves SF5. There are lots of other options out there, but people don't like starting over, having to relearn games, go 0-2 a bunch of times and stack Ls in the process.
I don't give a flying fuck about arcade mode (the lack of content and polish is a whole another matter that's beyond the scope of this discussion). The problem is that Capcom has shown zero willingness to address issues with the game and invest in the community beyond what they initially promised at launch, and have shown to have all of the agility of a pile of cinderblocks. Players need to be willing to walk away or things will never improve. (Granted, there's the (honestly, likely) possibility that Capcom just comes to the conclusion that interest in the game died and that there was nothing they could do but kill the series off.)
I don't think the SFxT comparison is relevant -- how many big money SFxT tournaments were there? One? It's obvious that Capcom had no long term commitment to the game the second it bombed at retail, so why should players invest their time in kind?
???????
I would love to see the receipts on how you came to that conclusion. Is there a certification exam that I need to take? Do I need to submit a long-form essay breaking down specific match-ups somewhere?
Same. It's kinda stupid.
gotta submit a peer-reviewed tierlist to eventhubs
Capcom definitely put money into SFxT... it got its own reality show!
Capcom just pulled the plug from SFXT when they were receiving such massive vitriol over it. Cut their losses and moved on to SFV.
And if SFXT was a game people wanted to play then it would have continued on like Marvel 3 (game that saw 0 support from Capcom after UMVC3).
I don't know where SFV ranks here. I feel like for pro players SFV is inoffensive enough where they can continue on to play it. They probably don't think it's the worst SF but they don't think it's the best either. The point of inertia is definitely true, people would rather play in their comfort zone and the brand they are familiar with. The fact that big money is being poured in for the competitive side and it seems there's a semi long term plan means that the pros on board. And if the pros are on board then the semi pros are also on board. It's hard to push against that.. what's the community going to do... NOT play the fighting game that players like Daigo/Momochi are playing? 90% of the FGC are D riders even if they don't play SF!
The only game that realistically had a shot at carving out a piece of the pie of SFV especially in US is Marvel Infinite. And that's a super big if because we don't know how Capcom will botch that up or what kind of support it might have. You can already feel people like Justin/PRRog/FChamp just waiting for that new Marvel game to put SFV on the side for a bit. Especially if we have big money coming to Marvel Infinite in the competitive field.
Capcom just pulled the plug from SFXT when they were receiving such massive vitriol over it. Cut their losses and moved on to SFV.
And if SFXT was a game people wanted to play then it would have continued on like Marvel 3 (game that saw 0 support from Capcom after UMVC3).
I don't know where SFV ranks here. I feel like for pro players SFV is inoffensive enough where they can continue on to play it. They probably don't think it's the worst SF but they don't think it's the best either. The point of inertia is definitely true, people would rather play in their comfort zone and the brand they are familiar with. The fact that big money is being poured in for the competitive side and it seems there's a semi long term plan means that the pros on board. And if the pros are on board then the semi pros are also on board. It's hard to push against that.. what's the community going to do... NOT play the fighting game that players like Daigo/Momochi are playing? 90% of the FGC are D riders even if they don't play SF!
The only game that realistically had a shot at carving out a piece of the pie of SFV especially in US is Marvel Infinite. And that's a super big if because we don't know how Capcom will botch that up or what kind of support it might have. You can already feel people like Justin/PRRog/FChamp just waiting for that new Marvel game to put SFV on the side for a bit. Especially if we have big money coming to Marvel Infinite in the competitive field.
Primethius
Banned
I'm waiting for the next big FGC game personally, Marvel or whatever it might be. I loved watching SFIV but for me, 5 is generally boring the fuck out of me.
Doesn't help that I have no interest in playing it either because of how garbage the netcode is.
Frankenstrat
Member
Edit: My bad I didn't realize no Smash in here
CEO dreamland's is the biggest Smash Tournament since January
Edit: Smash 4 is live on Team Spooky. https://www.twitch.tv/teamsp00ky
SFxT definitely got a huge push before it even came out. It failing at the end doesn't change that fact.
Random thoughts:
SF4 bores the hell out of me nowadays. Can't even go back and watch it.
Can't wait for Infinite. Might end up playing that and T7 over Injustice 2 overall.
Random thoughts:
SF4 bores the hell out of me nowadays. Can't even go back and watch it.
Can't wait for Infinite. Might end up playing that and T7 over Injustice 2 overall.
I don't want to thier this into a shit-flinging thread but I think you are confusing a highly subjective and anectodal opinion of your own with so-called facts to be honest with you. If you did follow the game close as you say you do then you would realise that just from the last few SFV events the top 8 (even top 16 to be fair) has been very varied - we even have a player at NCR with a Nash and he's considered low tier. Also, as you said there are a TON of options in terms of FG's out there so they can easily take thier pick. There is a lot of hyperbole in you post for a game that is actually doing the best competitively in the FG community which is why I'm a little confused. Anyway, like you said you have a sense of "inertia" from this game and that's cool but you unfortunately don't speak for anyone else. Like those above me have mentioned, MvCI could be a big contender with SFV and that's something I'm looking forward to.
Spot on.
TheSpoiler
Member
I'm just gonna say it flat out: I think most people enjoy SFV. It has a lot of problems, and people are vocal about it (and vocal about hating it), but if you don't think that it's the same song and dance that SF4 had you are crazy.
Every time a SF game comes out, it's always like this - "Oh dude I think people are playing it because it's popular/money/insert reason". Yeah, that's part of it (that's how it has been for the longest, but replace money with popularity), but that's not enough to sustain a fighting game scene. Even with big payouts, less than 1 percent of the people playing are going to get anything off of that, much less make a living. And while there are tons of dickriders playing the game because the pros play it (wow, just like everything else!), most people aren't going to spend time training, playing, and watching a game they hate.
If the community really, really hated SFV, it wouldn't survive. It wouldn't get the views, the hype, the playtime, the locals, the tournament numbers, etc. There would be a huge crash, and it'd show across the board. Right now, it doesn't even look like that at all.
And as for pros wanting to leave SFV, what do you think happened with SF4? Or 3? Shit, even some people were done with SF2 at a certain point.
Edit: Also, if you want to talk pro consensus, it's the same as it has always been across the board - some hate it, some like it, and their opinions change, just like they did in 4. Tokido, Daigo, and Momo love the game. Kbrad has always loved SF4 and never been shy about that, PR Rog swings depending on how good his character is, FChamp loves Marvel, and so on.
Every time a SF game comes out, it's always like this - "Oh dude I think people are playing it because it's popular/money/insert reason". Yeah, that's part of it (that's how it has been for the longest, but replace money with popularity), but that's not enough to sustain a fighting game scene. Even with big payouts, less than 1 percent of the people playing are going to get anything off of that, much less make a living. And while there are tons of dickriders playing the game because the pros play it (wow, just like everything else!), most people aren't going to spend time training, playing, and watching a game they hate.
If the community really, really hated SFV, it wouldn't survive. It wouldn't get the views, the hype, the playtime, the locals, the tournament numbers, etc. There would be a huge crash, and it'd show across the board. Right now, it doesn't even look like that at all.
And as for pros wanting to leave SFV, what do you think happened with SF4? Or 3? Shit, even some people were done with SF2 at a certain point.
Edit: Also, if you want to talk pro consensus, it's the same as it has always been across the board - some hate it, some like it, and their opinions change, just like they did in 4. Tokido, Daigo, and Momo love the game. Kbrad has always loved SF4 and never been shy about that, PR Rog swings depending on how good his character is, FChamp loves Marvel, and so on.
Inertia is a big thing.
People don't want to change. If you look at the people in the fgc you know they definitely don't want to change. That's why the scene even exists.
So no, we're going to keep on having sf as the flagship title and 6.5 frames of lag and one-sided rollback and no open lobbies and clipping in the menu screen and 10 hours of maintenance until capcom collapses.
People don't want to change. If you look at the people in the fgc you know they definitely don't want to change. That's why the scene even exists.
So no, we're going to keep on having sf as the flagship title and 6.5 frames of lag and one-sided rollback and no open lobbies and clipping in the menu screen and 10 hours of maintenance until capcom collapses.
Nailed it.
TheSpoiler
Member
lol that's the same tired excuse I've heard for years. "Man I don't want to play MK because it's too stiff so I'll just stick to playing Option Select 4" "3D games are trash, I'd rather just play Flowchart Ken 4 Super Edition" and so on.
I don't take anything the FGC says at face value, especially now that the internets a thing.
And it's the truth.
TheSpoiler
Member
Playing any game competitively is literally about what kind of bullshit you like and how much bullshit you can stand.
Which is why Gundam Versus will never be big, because nobody is going to put in effort bringing four sets of setups to tournaments and locals : /
Bob Coffee
Member
Anime will end up being the true fgc savior one day!
The Lone Dragon
Member
Some of you doom and gloomers are trying WAY too hard.
Minor fluctuations in STILL very strong viewership on twitch doesn't mean the sky is falling, lol. (BTW, 'viewership peak' isn't even the most important stat. You can have a higher peak, but fewer people watching througout the entire stream.)
There are many reasons why a stream might get a higher/lower peak year to year...most of them don't equate to "DED GAEM WALKING".
One of the biggest factors is player line up...which the game itself has no control over. I'm actually pretty impressed how the lack of Daigo and Infil has still resulted in strong viewership for top 8s/top 16s.
I like how other players have stepped up...Punk, Smug, Du, and Itazan in particular have become legit main event attractions, which is really cool. Wolfkrone/Kbrad rivalry got 41k views at ELeague, an event that didn't event exist for us before now. That's strong.
Of course, Daigo not getting bodied at each tourney would definitely boost views more, but thankfully we can still survive without the Beast propping us up.
Minor fluctuations in STILL very strong viewership on twitch doesn't mean the sky is falling, lol. (BTW, 'viewership peak' isn't even the most important stat. You can have a higher peak, but fewer people watching througout the entire stream.)
There are many reasons why a stream might get a higher/lower peak year to year...most of them don't equate to "DED GAEM WALKING".
One of the biggest factors is player line up...which the game itself has no control over. I'm actually pretty impressed how the lack of Daigo and Infil has still resulted in strong viewership for top 8s/top 16s.
I like how other players have stepped up...Punk, Smug, Du, and Itazan in particular have become legit main event attractions, which is really cool. Wolfkrone/Kbrad rivalry got 41k views at ELeague, an event that didn't event exist for us before now. That's strong.
Of course, Daigo not getting bodied at each tourney would definitely boost views more, but thankfully we can still survive without the Beast propping us up.
Some day we will all unite and play on our trash cans. Cut down on costs too.
RecRoulette
Member
Was NCR on Easter weekend last year? Feel like that might have something to do with the lower numbers too.
TheSpoiler
Member
What a bad comment. Why are people so afraid to let others come up with their own opinions and, instead, try to force their opinions down people's throats?
Here's my opinion: If you don't like a game (such as SFV), DON'T PLAY IT. Next, stop posting about it. I don't know why people torture themselves into spending so much time and energy on games they supposedly 'hate.'
Rice-Eater
Member
I like playing and watching SFV, but man I find SF4 to be the more exciting game to watch. Even nowadays when they show replays of matches from past CPT tournaments during the break I'm getting hyped rewatching the match because of all the crazy reads, tech, and execution at that level.
To me SF4 with its dominant buttons and faster walk speeds for practically every character was a better display of footsies while SFV involves more preemptive buttons because players are uncomfortable playing at certain ranges because of the lack of walk speed and good normals. That's why I think dash ins are more prevalent instead of walking(besides the fact that dashes are so good). OK, so this wasn't really part of the discussion, I just started babbling because I got myself started.
But anyways, I think SFV will be fine but I think we may have already seen the game peak(in terms of player count) in the first year. I think Capcom can definitely turn things around and regain the viewership and increase the player count again compared to this year. But we're probably not going to see another 1,000 man tourney outside of EVO again during the SFV era.
To me SF4 with its dominant buttons and faster walk speeds for practically every character was a better display of footsies while SFV involves more preemptive buttons because players are uncomfortable playing at certain ranges because of the lack of walk speed and good normals. That's why I think dash ins are more prevalent instead of walking(besides the fact that dashes are so good). OK, so this wasn't really part of the discussion, I just started babbling because I got myself started.
But anyways, I think SFV will be fine but I think we may have already seen the game peak(in terms of player count) in the first year. I think Capcom can definitely turn things around and regain the viewership and increase the player count again compared to this year. But we're probably not going to see another 1,000 man tourney outside of EVO again during the SFV era.
Also everyone waiting for the juggernauts. Let's go Sagat, Sakura, Q and Oro!
Huh, didn't even think of that. Easter Regionals
Want to take over the tournament threads then? I make these threads because I think there's still a need for them, but you're right. I should stop posting about a game (and most of these thread have a focus on SFV because that's the main game these tournaments are based on) because I supposedly 'hate' the game.
Stream started late, and so everything is at least a hour late right now.
DryEyeRelief
Member
PR has stated a bunch of times that, despite how good current SFV boxer is, he prefers playing SF4 boxer. To paraphrase him, it's because SF4 boxer was about playing solid where as SFV boxer is "blarararaaaaaaaal"
Every part of this tournament being past 1 AM in Europe probably contributes to the low numbers too.
DryEyeRelief
Member
Well at least someone on echofox is winning this weekend
TheSpoiler
Member
All nine people will be happy about those last two!
Exactly. This applies to other games as well. SF just gets the brunt of it.
I was talking about how he feels about the game itself. His opinion of the game literally changes depending on how well he's doing, and he did that in SF4 as well.
Nah, but this time it's true and SF5 is a garbage game and it's clearly dying because it's such trash. Obviously. *eyeroll*
TheSpoiler
Member
Oh god.
Shadow_Lord
Member
ApologyMan plays Smash? wut?