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"I need a New PC!" 2013 Part 2. Haswell = #IntelnoTIM, but free online. READ THE OP.

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C

copelandmaster

Member
So... anybody got any suggestions for my dilemma? I just tested Sonic again and yeah, 8xmsaa+8xSGSSA tops me out on a 2GB 96GB/s GTX 485m. That sucks, because SGSSA looks good, and SSAA looks even better.
 
Fixed1979

Fixed1979

Member
What's the easiest way for me to swap my 80Gb SSD (Win8OS) over to a new 250Gb? Is there some software that someone can recommend?
 
M

Mad Max

Member
InternHertz said:
The GPU is going to be watercooled as well, so is it still going to be a problem?



The problem is that if I mount radiators on the front with its fans as intake, doesn't that mean all the hot air would be blown into the case? Thus making my case hotter.



- Did you also watercool your GPU with your setup?
- "2 fans in front as intake through a 240 (push)" means the radiator lets out hot air in the case, doesn't it?
- Did you just set the pump on the bottom surface or did you use something to set it in place?
- I don't plan on getting rid of the DVD drive bays, I still need a reader.

Thanks everyone for answering, I'm still very much unsettled by all this so you're a precious aid.
Click to expand...

A setup with all fans as exhaust isn't very effective, since the air has to come from somewhere.

With 2x240 rads the water temp in your loop is probably going to be about 5 to 15 degrees above ambient on average. So the air coming from your rads will be a bit below that even, definitely cold enough to cool the components that aren't covered in waterblocks.

Here's a of my setup pic for reference (from the previous thread):

NBAxh4U.jpg


The front 2 fans push in cold air through the rad. So the air is a bit warmer than ambient, but definitely not hot as I said. Unless you have very limited rad surface (resulting in high water temperatures) a setup like this will work very well in general.

The pump is bolted down to the floor of the case by the way.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
To add to Mad Max's post, significant negative pressure (which 4x exhaust, 1x Intake would be) would also lead to greater strain on the fans, resulting in lower lifespan and possibly increased noise and would place extra strain and shorten the life of other non-cooled peripherals (such as HDD's).

Water is used because it's highly efficient at storing heat, not necessarily at transmission of heat. In other words Water beats out Air for the amount of energy, i.e.Heat, that it can store, but Air is better for radiation (emission/transfer).

This is why the Zalman Reserator was able to cool extremely hot chips without a fan, the capacity of the reservoir was so high that even under extreme conditions the water never got much above a tepid temperature. (Unfortunately other aspects of the design were quite bad, terrible pump, leaky flow indicator, pipes prone to evaporation / leaks etc.)
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Ok, so given todays developments, here's my new build plan.

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770K
Cooler: Corsair H80i
M'board: Asus Maximus V Gene Z77
Ram: 8GB Corsair 1600mhz Vengeance (2x8GB)
SSD: Plextor PX-M5S 128GB SSD
HDD: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue
DVD: Samsung 24x DVD±RW
GPU: MSI GTX 760 Twin Frozr
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Black Pearl
PSU: 650W Corsair TX V2

Pretty much at the absolute limited of my budget with this now, but it's a spec that has me pretty excited. Just have to wait for my PPI refund/compensation to hit my bank account =D
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Osiris said:
Ok, so given todays developments, here's my new build plan.

CPU: Intel Core i7 3770K
Cooler: Corsair H80i
M'board: Asus Maximus V Gene Z77
Ram: 8GB Corsair 1600mhz Vengeance (2x8GB)
SSD: Plextor PX-M5S 128GB SSD
HDD: 1TB Western Digital Caviar Blue
DVD: Samsung 24x DVD±RW
GPU: MSI GTX 760 Twin Frozr
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 Black Pearl
PSU: 650W Corsair TX V2

Pretty much at the absolute limited of my budget with this now, but it's a spec that has me pretty excited.
Click to expand...
Drop down that H80i to something like the H60 unless you're planning on delidding. Or, save even more and grab the Seidon 120.

You'll hit the thermal limits of the TIM-filled chip well before that additional overhead helps out.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
I'm going to delid to hit my noise/performance target, I've done it before long ago so not
too squeamish about doing it. I take it the chips still use that soft organic substrate you really have to be careful about nicking?
 
C

copelandmaster

Member
copelandmaster said:
Hello PC GAF, how's it going? Perfect timing, huh?

I am in the middle of choosing a SFF build basted on the Bitfenix linked here. I'm waiting on the Maximus Impact to drop before I pull the trigger, so I have time. I have a few questions about what card I should get based on my needs.

I was planning on:
4GB Gigabyte GTX 770 Windforce OC card

I am now considering a 760 level card, but only w/ a custom cooler. Nervous about the lack of 4GB right now, even though those leaked like a week ago.

Above all, I want a quiet card.

AMD is not an option.


Needs:
I plan to dump this card for a high end X70/X80 Maxwell next year If they are 50% faster on average than the GTX 680/GTX 770. Resale ability is a consideration, though not a big one.

I will be gaming on a 144hz 1080p asus monitor.

I want to hit 60+ FPS in everything (Including Next Gen ports), but don't mind turning town settings that aren't texture resolution, screen resolution, model quality, and fancy lighting. Would prefere 4xaa in every game

I plan to experiment with downsampling and supersampling. This is where the 4GB comes in handy. A relatively undemanding game like Sonic Generations hits a wall somewhere between 4xmsaa+4xSGSSA and 8xmsaa+8xSSGSSA with only 2GB.

I don't really want to step up to mATX and ATX for SLI because those PC's are too big. I want to be able to hike my PC to the living room on a whim.



Lastly, unrelated to graphics cards, does anyone here have a recommendation for external sound cards/ DAC+AMPs? I know the impulse has a dedicated custom card on the mobo, but I would like an alternative incase things go south. I was looking at a soundblaster ZXR, but that at a minimum requires a mATX setup.



Thanks, this thread really helped me out!
Click to expand...

T_T
 
T

TharpDaddy

Member
The new 760 looks great, might finally replace my old 460 with it. I hope it goes up on amazon soon, got some credit on there from various things i'd like to use.
 
O

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
mkenyon said:
Yeah.

I'd seriously go for the hammer+vice method though. Waaaaaay safer.
Click to expand...


If I can find someone with a vice, sure, don't have one myself atm. :(

If not I have some super thin razor blades I've done the organics with before with no issues with. (pretty much the same thin blades that are the type used in disposables, just unhoused)

Most of those people that have damaged them via this method have either used non-razor blade (stanleys/craft knives) or hacked in too far too quick and without enough care & patience.

Hair dryer / heat gun, small careful cutting and lots of patience is a virtue.
 
S

Shadowhaxor

Member
Just got a notification that the Geforce 320.49 drivers are in BETA. They are supposed to correct the issues noticed in the 320.418 and are also the launch drivers for the GTX 760;

GeForce 320.49 Driver (BETA)
Release Summary
This is the launch driver for the newly released GeForce GTX 760.
GeForce 320.49 drivers include several fixes for issues reported with 320.18 drivers. Refer to the release notes for a full list of fixed issues.
New in GeForce R320 Drivers
• Performance Boost – Increases performance by up to 20% for GeForce 400/500/600 series GPUs in several PC games vs. GeForce 314.22 WHQL-certified drivers. Results will vary depending on your GPU and system configuration. Here is one example of measured gains:
GeForce GTX 660:
• Up to 20% in Dirt: Showdown
• Up to 18% in Tomb Raider
• Up to 10% in Metro: Last Light
• Up to 10% in Sleeping Dogs
• Up to 8% in StarCraft II
• Up to 6% in Sniper Elite V2
• Up to 6% in Metro 2033
• Up to 6% in Far Cry 3
• Up to 6% in Deus Ex: Human Revolution
• Up to 5% in F1 2012
GeForce GTX 660 SLI:
• Up to 17% in Dirt: Showdown
• Up to 18% in Tomb Raider
• Up to 9% in Metro: Last Light
• Up to 9% in Assassin’s Creed III
• Up to 7% in StarCraft II
• Up to 6% in Far Cry 3
• Up to 6% in Deus Ex: Human Revolution
• Up to 6% in Battlefield 3
• Up to 5% in BioShock: Infinite
• Up to 5% in F1 2012
• SLI Technology
• Added SLI profile for Alien Fear
• Added SLI profile for Call of Juarez: Gunslinger
• Added SLI profile for Dead Island: Riptide
• Added SLI profile for Dragon Sword
• Added SLI profile for Neverwinter
• Added SLI profile for Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon
• Added SLI profile for GRID 2
• Added SLI profile for Human Head 2
• Added SLI profile for Remember Me
• Added SLI profile for The Walking Dead: Survival Instinct
• Updated SLI profile for Natural Selection 2
• Updated SLI profile for Resident Evil 6
• Updated SLI profile for Trackmania 2: Canyon
Additional Details
• Installs PhysX System Software 9.13.0604.
• Installs HD Audio v1.3.24.2
• Includes support for applications built using CUDA 5.5 or earlier version of the CUDA Toolkit. More information at http://developer.nvidia.com/cuda-toolkit
• Supports OpenGL 4.3 for GeForce 400-series and later GPUs.
• Supports DisplayPort 1.2 for GeForce GTX 600 series GPUs.
• Supports multiple languages and APIs for GPU computing: CUDA C, CUDA C++, CUDA Fortran, OpenCL, DirectCompute, and Microsoft C++ AMP.
• Supports single GPU and NVIDIA SLI technology on DirectX 9, DirectX 10, DirectX 11, and OpenGL, including 3-way SLI, Quad SLI, and SLI support on SLI-certified Intel and AMD motherboards.
 
Z

zam

Member
Looking to buy another SSD for games only, around 250GB, preferably one with a good price/performance balance. Any recommendations?
 
Z

ZetaEpyon

Member
Been thinking about upgrading my HTPC so that I can use it for some gaming as well... that MSI 760 looks like it might be just what I needed. Low noise and really nice performance at 1080p.
 
M

mkenyon

Banned
Okay, yeah, it looks like it's still hit or miss. You need an active one, and then it may or may not work, depending basically on the quality of the exact item in specific. Two of the same ones from the same place might have different results.
 
I

InternHertz

Member
Mad Max said:
A setup with all fans as exhaust isn't very effective, since the air has to come from somewhere.

With 2x240 rads the water temp in your loop is probably going to be about 5 to 15 degrees above ambient on average. So the air coming from your rads will be a bit below that even, definitely cold enough to cool the components that aren't covered in waterblocks.

Here's a of my setup pic for reference (from the previous thread):

The front 2 fans push in cold air through the rad. So the air is a bit warmer than ambient, but definitely not hot as I said. Unless you have very limited rad surface (resulting in high water temperatures) a setup like this will work very well in general.

The pump is bolted down to the floor of the case by the way.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this, and for the photo, it was very informative! I'm much more at peace right now. I guess I just need to figure out how I'll be able to screw/bolt the pump/reservoir combo but that's not something to fret about just now.

So yeah, I think the Arc Midi R2 is going to be my case of choice.
 
C

CrunchyFrog

Member
mkenyon said:
After mulling it over, I think you should take a look at the SFF build guide here: http://bit.ly/GAFBoxOne

The motherboard listed in the 'excellent' category has built in WiFi, and you don't need a fancy soundcard when you're going to have it hooked up to a receiver anyway, as the audio will be going out via HDMI.

Those builds are a lot more at home next to a TV.

You could even go with the Haswell 'Enthusiast' build and swap in this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157374 to save a bit of cash. Haswell is doing really really well on emulation benchmarks, which is the only reason I'm suggesting it.
Click to expand...

Yeah the more I read up on it Haswell seems like the way to go for emulation. Which specific SFF build are you referring to, though? I'm a bit wary of getting the wifi and optical out both stuck on the mobo, but if I can shave off a few more $ I suppose it'll do. Should I settle for the 760 or keep it at the 770 2GB? And finally, can I reuse the W7x64 installation that came with my laptop on this desktop?
 
D

duppolo

Member
Plz help me. I cant understand hardware. im from italy and i find a used desktop with this spec:

case: Lian Li A71f
motherboard: ASUS 1155 Maximus IV Extreme Rev.3.0 ATX DDR3 P67
RAM: 16 GB ram DDR3 1333Mhz PC10666 8GB Corsair XMS3 CL9 1.65V (4x4GB)
CPU: intel Core i5-2500K 3.3Ghz 6MB 1155 Sandy Bridge Unlocked con GPU 95W BOX
storage: 1 ssd primario : Samsung 830 series 256
1 ssd secondario OCZ SSD Vertex 3 120GB SATA III 2.5"
dissipatore CPU: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Special Edition
PSU: Seasonic x-460 fanless
GPU: AMD radeon HD6850 SCS3 - powercolor

Is this good enough to give me nice gaming for 4-5 year? I can change the videocard in the next years, but i would like other components to resist.
What do you think about it and what you think is the right price in euro for a used pc like this?
thanks
 
K

kennah

Member
duppolo said:
Plz help me. I cant understand hardware. im from italy and i find a used desktop with this spec:

case: Lian Li A71f
motherboard: ASUS 1155 Maximus IV Extreme Rev.3.0 ATX DDR3 P67
RAM: 16 GB ram DDR3 1333Mhz PC10666 8GB Corsair XMS3 CL9 1.65V (4x4GB)
CPU: intel Core i5-2500K 3.3Ghz 6MB 1155 Sandy Bridge Unlocked con GPU 95W BOX
storage: 1 ssd primario : Samsung 830 series 256
1 ssd secondario OCZ SSD Vertex 3 120GB SATA III 2.5"
dissipatore CPU: Noctua NH-U12P SE2 Special Edition
PSU: Seasonic x-460 fanless
GPU: AMD radeon HD6850 SCS3 - powercolor

Is this good enough to give me nice gaming for 4-5 year? I can change the videocard in the next years, but i would like other components to resist.
What do you think about it and what you think is the right price in euro for a used pc like this?
thanks
Click to expand...

Excellent parts. Put a better video card in there and you're good for a few years.
 
D

duppolo

Member
kennah said:
Excellent parts. Put a better video card in there and you're good for a few years.
Click to expand...
thank you for the rapid answer. do you think i can play at high in 1680x1050? i hope i can play with that video card for 1 or 2 years and with another card for the next 2, 3 years...what do you think?
 
K

kennah

Member
duppolo said:
thank you for the rapid answer. do you think i can play at high in 1680x1050? i hope i can play with that video card for 1 or 2 years and with another card for the next 2, 3 years...what do you think?
Click to expand...

I used to have a 6850, your frames will suffer a bit, but should tide you over until you get sick of it :)
 
O

Ocho

Member
I'm getting a lot of screen tearing in Windows 7. I have a 144hz monitor and a 60hz monitor, and this issue is clearly visible only in my 60hz. If I move my folder or browser around really quickly, I can see massive horizontal tearing.

Is this because I disabled Aero (since it messed up my games while borderless)?
 
S

scogoth

Member
ochobit said:
I'm getting a lot of screen tearing in Windows 7. I have a 144hz monitor and a 60hz monitor, and this issue is clearly visible only in my 60hz. If I move my folder or browser around really quickly, I can see massive horizontal tearing.

Is this because I disabled Aero (since it messed up my games while borderless)?
Click to expand...

Yes when you disable aero windows no longer renders windows as a 3D workload and if I remember correctly it is no longer GPU accelerated and can lead to slower rendering times and thus tearing.
 
Z

Zaph

Member
Slightly specific question, but hopefully you guys can help:

Does anyone know how the noise levels of a SFF case like the Node 304 compares to Fractal Design's Define R3? Also, can you (and is it wise?) add similar noise dampening material to the inside of the case?

I've ended up completely re-speccing my build around a SFF case, but I really don't want to lose the silence of my R3. I'll be moving over some of my old parts like 670 GTX, Noctua fans and H60 cooler.

Would happily welcome other case suggestions for a quiet SFF build.
 
K

kennah

Member
Zaph said:
Slightly specific question, but hopefully you guys can help:

Does anyone know how the noise levels of a SFF case like the Node 304 compares to Fractal Design's Define R3? Also, can you (and is it wise?) add similar noise dampening material to the inside of the case?

I've ended up completely re-speccing my build around a SFF case, but I really don't want to lose the silence of my R3. I'll be moving over some of my old parts like 670 GTX, Noctua fans and H60 cooler.

Would happily welcome other case suggestions for a quiet SFF build.
Click to expand...

Your 670 is going to be the loudest thing in any of the cases you get. While It is possible to add noise dampening material to the inside shell of a case - I'd be a little worried about temperature issues myself.

That said the Node is going to be pretty friggin quiet anyway. Fractal's cases are amazing. Just make sure you get a quiet power supply.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6470/...tx-case-review-paving-the-way-to-the-future/5
 
S

Smokey

Member
scogoth said:
What video card you running it off of?
Click to expand...

It would be on a single Titan. Right now it's not a problem. I just use two DVIs on the master card, and a single DVI on the second. If the SC Titan sells though that's when I would need this adapter to continue using NV Surround.
 
T

tarheel91

Member
Mad Max said:
A setup with all fans as exhaust isn't very effective, since the air has to come from somewhere.

With 2x240 rads the water temp in your loop is probably going to be about 5 to 15 degrees above ambient on average. So the air coming from your rads will be a bit below that even, definitely cold enough to cool the components that aren't covered in waterblocks.

Here's a of my setup pic for reference (from the previous thread):

NBAxh4U.jpg


The front 2 fans push in cold air through the rad. So the air is a bit warmer than ambient, but definitely not hot as I said. Unless you have very limited rad surface (resulting in high water temperatures) a setup like this will work very well in general.

The pump is bolted down to the floor of the case by the way.
Click to expand...

Err, I dunno about that heat transfer analysis. I'll agree that you usually want some fans pulling in, but only because it allows you to control your air path. Air is moved by pressured differentials. Having all that air pulled out of the case will create that pressure differential and will pull air into the case. The problem is that you don't get to choose how.

Second, water temperature is going to mainly be a function of heat production by your cards vs. the mass flow rate of the water. Radiation has nothing to do with water cooling. Convection is what matters. Surface area is obviously important in maxing heat transfer, but having less of it only means you'll transfer less, not that your overall water temperature will rise. If anything, having less surface area would drop the water temp as less heat would get transferred.
 
Y

yatesl

Member
Built my new PC, and everything seemed fine. However, in 3 hours, I've had 3 BSoD on Windows 8.

Using BlueScreenView:

Code: 
BAD_POOL_HEADER
062613-11781-01.dmp	26/06/2013 03:47:28	BAD_POOL_HEADER	0x00000019	00000000`00000022	00000000`00400000	00000000`00000000	00000000`00000000	win32k.sys	win32k.sys+cd720					x64	ntoskrnl.exe+5a440					C:\Windows\Minidump\062613-11781-01.dmp	4	15	9200	313,800	26/06/2013 03:48:18

Happened when initialising Windows 8.


Code: 
SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION
062613-8484-01.dmp	26/06/2013 02:11:54	SYSTEM_SERVICE_EXCEPTION	0x0000003b	00000000`c0000005	fffff960`00142c2f	fffff880`052adba0	00000000`00000000	win32k.sys	win32k.sys+1cc2f					x64	ntoskrnl.exe+5a440					C:\Windows\Minidump\062613-8484-01.dmp	4	15	9200	280,664	26/06/2013 02:12:28

Happened when copying something.


Code: 
DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
062513-10765-01.dmp	25/06/2013 21:26:39	DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL	0x000000d1	ffffffff`ffdcf4aa	00000000`00000002	00000000`00000001	fffff880`0488cb5b	CLFS.SYS	CLFS.SYS+8d84930					x64	ntoskrnl.exe+5a440					C:\Windows\Minidump\062513-10765-01.dmp	4	15	9200	313,728	25/06/2013 21:29:26

Happened when installing Saint's Row 3.

Any common theme?
 
S

scogoth

Member
Smokey said:
It would be on a single Titan. Right now it's not a problem. I just use two DVIs on the master card, and a single DVI on the second. If the SC Titan sells though that's when I would need this adapter to continue using NV Surround.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm not sure what to say other than drop down to 60hz until you upgrade your GPUs. Technically an active adapter should work but 120hz dp to dual link dvi is definitely one of those unusual cases. Also the adapters are ~$150 and need to powered and as mkenyon said, not guaranteed to work.
 
Zenaku

Zenaku

Member
I updated everything save for my GPU at the end of 2011, and finally upgraded the GPU to a GTX 660ti DC2 this weekend gone, and overclocked it to 3.3Tflops last night. It's rather magical, after suffering so long with an old 8800GTX.
 
R

RumblingRosco

Member
So... the 700 series is upon us. Gotta decide if I want to sell my 560 Ti for a small amount and use that money towards a 760. Decisions decisions.
 
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