ResetEraVetVIP
Member
It's not about the developers...its about engine capability..hard to grasp?
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in Honor of No Way Home: Will Spider-man 2 reach the same levels of fidelity as the Matrix UE5 Demo?
- Thread starter remember_spinal
- Start date
- Opinion Analysis Hype
JerryinSoCal
Member
Insomniac made Spider-Man for the PS4 it wasn't built for the PS5 from the beginning, I'm not saying they will or won't use any one particular lighting technique, but the comparison seems silly let alone the fact that one is a game, and the other is a tech demo that runs at a lower native resolution, has very little interactivity, no real AI, no big effects etc.
Captain Toad
Banned
Pixar isn't the ceiling anymore. Ratchet DOES look Pixar good. The Matrix demo surpasses anything from a Pixar movie.
vpance
Member
How likely is it another big studio has figured out their own Nanite tech ready to go in the next year or 2? IIRC Nanite was a result of years of R&D, and that's from Epic who specialize in game engines.
But maybe now that Epic's gone over a lot of the fundamental ideas, others out there can get their own version up and running relatively quickly.
But maybe now that Epic's gone over a lot of the fundamental ideas, others out there can get their own version up and running relatively quickly.
remember_spinal
Banned
UE4 wasn’t the end all be all and UE5 isn’t going to be either. Technology doesn’t advance in a small bubble
Pagusas
Elden Member
remember_spinal
Banned
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Haggard
Banned
Engines are Software made by developers. Hard to grasp?
Pagusas
Elden Member
no one is saying it’s the be all end all, it’s just the coolest thing right now.All the people talking about lumens and nanite. I thought that was obvious
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
You don't need to state that...also devs cant just add new features quickly it takes time...THATS WHY PEOPLE SAID THAT. If insomniac doesn't add a similar nanite like feature then no.
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Haggard
Banned
UE5 is still months from release, Nanite still has massive issues with a lot of element types, Lumen is basically still "just" RT with all the performance issues that brings. And of course everyone who hasn't explicitly shown off tech demos have just been twiddling their thumbs and intent to not upgrade their engines ever again....You don't need to state the that...also devs cant just add new features quickly it takes time...THATS WHY PEOPLE SAID THAT. If insomniac doesn't add a similar nanite like feature then no.
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Sometimes I think it should hurt to be an idiot of your magnitude.....
Your nickname fits like a glove.
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DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
Yes, all 3D engines going forward would not/could not develop anything similar to Nanite. s/
Engines going forward will take advantage of the next gen hardware and use i to their own advantage.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Duh...thats exactly what everyones been saying and you are responding with stupid comments. You assume Insomniac will have similar tech when Spiderman 2 releases? Insomniac won't reach UE5 demo quality if they don't have a Nanite like solution, period. Infinite geometry is what makes The Matrix Awakens look CGI...hard to grasp..?
vpance
Member
The thing is not many devs probably even considered to go in this direction because of the known limitations that Nanite has with skinned meshes, a problem which Epic is still trying to solve. It's a big bet to completely redesign your future games in this direction especially when the far safer option of iterating off of existing PS4/XB1 engines is right in front of you. With that in mind I think UE5 is in a really unique position at this time. Just have to see if devs will take a bite on it now.
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
I guess you didn't read "Unless Insomniac has a similar technology, the will not match that demo"
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
For faster development sony devs may just use tweaked older methods that rely on the PS5s ssd and io setup.
I mean a rift aparts geometry is not that different to UE5s.
This is actually an interesting view, if your assumption is correct it's kinda like Nvidia and DLSS. If Epic gains a 4+ year advantage here I wonder how easy it would be for others to catch up, keeping in mind they will have to actually be making a game over that time aswell where the UE5 devs don't.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I came in to say this. The Matrix demo just proved everything he said wrong. Obviously, a more powerful PC could run that demo at higher framerates and resolution bit he started out by saying consoles can't do ray tracing well enough or geometric detail and those are the primary two things the demo did so well.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
You may be right to a degree but what does that say about the industry right now? If they're unwilling to start drastically improving and rewriting their engines then shame on them. They don't have the same ambition as the ps4/xb1 generation and are causing games to stagnate in the process. I hope Unreal 5 lights a fire under their asses.
vpance
Member
Pretty much, like I was thinking in a previous post. Not saying there aren't any other forward thinking engine devs out there but UE5 already looks very capable of hitting all those next gen bulletpoints and ready to go within the next 1-2 years. This is while most game studios first 1 or 2 next gen games still usually have cross gen roots in them.
I'm sure there will be competing engine tech out there eventually though. Guys at EA with Frostbite and Ubisoft are no doubt interested in reaching a similar fidelity for their big franchise titles.
true but as VFX say in fact they run at 1080p...and drop down till 21 fps ...a game would be unthinkable with that quality, they will find a way to make the games look more "beautiful" and closer to what this tech demo does, but technically I don't think that the two flagship consoles have the grunt to run ue5 in all its glory. I expect great things from the coalition surely they are the best and most experienced with this engine.
Haggard
Banned
2 measly sentences are already too difficult for you, my oh my..
To make it as simple and clear as possible:
It´s just software.
A great achievement, but still with a lot of issues outside of a very specific use case and especially in software many ways lead to rome. Just outright dismissing everyone else in the industry or claiming everyone else has to copy paste the exact approach is ridiculously stupid, because, and here we get back to my original comment, "Epic is not the only one with good developers".
Probably still "hard to grasp" for a simple fella whose brain seems to stop working the moment some hype comes into play.
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I think frostbite will get shelved, it's obvious since Mr Andersson (im using that pun yep) and friends left Dice are struggling with that engine.
oldergamer
Member
Because some guy on twitter says its better? Dunno if that post is worth responding to.
Realize the limitations in spiderman and time limitations for epic. Those interiors in spiderman are not emmisive lights at night time. Id rather have more detail on the exteriors but they probably could have nanite based interiors if they wanted. The cars being nanite based could have as much detail as they want. They obviously didnt go to extreme lengths.
Not only that you are comparing a finished game versus something that took less then a year.
Mister Wolf
Member
Low Moral Fibre
Member
That's a negative.
More than good enough for when you are web-swinging around and way way better than the cube-maps but the RT is pretty low quality in a side by side with the actual scene.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Spiderman of the PS4 and PS5 both run at 30fps. They also have a 60fps mode, but that's different.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
What do you expect the best games to look like on the PS5 then?
Kokoloko85
Member
No idea Tbh but not looking like that at 30-60fps. I do hope so though. Maybe thats some PS6 level stuff lol
aclar00
Member
While impressive and undoubtedly overall great engine, it is silly to think other dev teams wont have methods and workarounds that produce same, similar or better results
Also, while the engine in itself is great, youd undoubtedly need capable devs to use it to its fullest extend, regardless of the level of automation.
Dont get me wrong, im not trying to downplay how revolutionary nanite could be, but a team with great experience and knowledge (or even time & money) can do greater things IMO than a team with lesser experience and knowledge but greater tools.
With that said, along with engines being constantly updated, i feel we wont see UE5 standout nearly as much as many seem to suggest.
Also, while the engine in itself is great, youd undoubtedly need capable devs to use it to its fullest extend, regardless of the level of automation.
Dont get me wrong, im not trying to downplay how revolutionary nanite could be, but a team with great experience and knowledge (or even time & money) can do greater things IMO than a team with lesser experience and knowledge but greater tools.
With that said, along with engines being constantly updated, i feel we wont see UE5 standout nearly as much as many seem to suggest.
Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
No, because they will make it for PS4 as well.
But what if there's a PS5 pro in a few years that caters to those aspects?
aclar00
Member
Can future consoles just use some kind of hardware acceleration to do this? Im not sures what DLSS or VRR are but would it not be simple (maybe expensive though) to have a separate chip to increase frames in the same way there are separate audio chips?
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Why? What's else is releasing when Hellblade 2 drops?
But seriously, what ever Kojima makes next is gonna drop jaws graphically.
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Yoboman
Member
Yeah there's no way these consoles can run UE5 in the same way they are already running UE5
Werewolfgrandma
Banned
Jimmy_liv
Member
Debatable if it's classed as this gen but a new console... That would do the trick.
VFXVeteran
Banned
You must not see very much CGI. Check out Love, Death, Robots and then come back and say you think it looks like CGI. It's not doing anywhere near the RT evaluations or geometric complexity as offline rendering. Still several generations to go with power increases before we are seeing equivalent complexity with path tracing and geometry.
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VFXVeteran
Banned
They are running UE5 at low rendering settings and UE5 still doesn't have code for complex path-traced rendering like CGI has. There are a lot of things that will choke even the highest end GPU right now. Not sure why I'm getting resistance concerning this. We have had more than enough games where shortcuts are always being taken to get a rendered scene at a reasonable FPS. 1080p @ 24fps should be proof enough that they don't have good enough bandwidth.Yeah there's no way these consoles can run UE5 in the same way they are already running UE5
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I was more impressed with Ratchet than I was The Matrix demo. The former just had so much of a stylized look, though certainly things like Nanite are more advanced
UE5 looks great, but wandering the city I didnt see such a massive difference from other open world city games. Yes, LOD is massively improved, and the seamless nature of it was extremely exciting, but the actual detail didn’t seem too much more dense to my eye
im more impressed with UE5’s development efficiencies that it provides dev studios, but I suspect the absolute best looking games will use custom engines as they always have
UE5 looks great, but wandering the city I didnt see such a massive difference from other open world city games. Yes, LOD is massively improved, and the seamless nature of it was extremely exciting, but the actual detail didn’t seem too much more dense to my eye
im more impressed with UE5’s development efficiencies that it provides dev studios, but I suspect the absolute best looking games will use custom engines as they always have
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it depend on the studio. Matrix demo is free therefore it is clearly "cold" from an artistic point of view . without something like nanite no chance custom engines can rival what ue5 is doing
Darius87
Member
CGI doesn't run in realtime why you compare offline rendering to realtime rendering in first place? this is game forum.
24FPS is because cinematic look not of lack of BW
Yoboman
Member
I think a lot of devs will use something similar, nothing really stopping them from creating a similar solution
