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[adamsapple]

Their vision was compromised because they wanted all players to have the option which the game mode that had to be removed provided.

This isn't the first time a developer has mentioned the difficulties/constraints this console has compared to the other "next gen" consoles, and it wont be the last.

Not sure how we can say it's compromised when the feature works in 3 of the 4 platforms, with the 4th still committed to getting it in future updates.

 

[Negotiator101]

Yep, they have to design and run this game in 8GB memory space, they had 5GB last gen with RDR2 so it's barely more than that. Without Series S they would have 13GB of memory available on SX and PS5.

There were a LOT of not happy developers before:

Id Software Devs Express Their Concerns Over the Xbox Series S’ Hardware Specs; Memory “Situation” Not Easy to Compensate

Several devs at id Software have expressed their concerns over the specs of Microsoft’s Xbox Series S, more specifically, its memory.

wccftech.com

Developers hate Series S

I hate that piece of shit

www.neogaf.com

It's one thing to have "concerns" but quite another to say a game will be designed to fit the limitations of one console. There is absolutely zero proof that this has happened in any game to date and barring this one example nothing to indicate this is the case with any future titles either.

 

[GHG]

Not sure how we can say it's compromised when the feature works in 3 of the 4 platforms, with the 4th still committed to getting it in future updates.

Everyone pays the same price but only one group of people have a whole game mode missing.

Do you think that's what Xbox wanted when they developed, marketed and released the Series S? Do you think it was their intention to have some of their customers end up with a game that isn't feature complete with the Series X despite their marketing for the console stating otherwise?

 

[Oppoi]

It's one thing to have "concerns" but quite another to say a game will be designed to fit the limitations of one console. There is absolutely zero proof that this has happened in any game to date and barring this one example nothing to indicate this is the case with any future titles either.

Google the Xbox parity clause. edit, oh sorry "Bing" the Xbox parity clause.

 

[adamsapple]

Everyone pays the same price but only one group of people have a whole game mode missing.

Do you think that's what Xbox wanted when they developed, marketed and released the Series S? Do you think it was their intention to have some of their customers end up with a game that isn't feature complete with the Series X despite their marketing for the console stating otherwise?

That's irrelevant, you said the developers vision was compromised, it wasn't.

 

[Oppoi]

From the article:

As reported on the Czech website Zing.cz, during the ongoing Game Access event in Brno, Czech Republic, producer Martin Klíma confirmed that the Xbox Series S technical limitations, namely the 10 GB of RAM, have impacted Kingdom Come Deliverance 2's scope. As the weakest current generation console has only 25% more RAM, Warhorse Studios decided to make the game only 25% bigger than its predecessor. This isn't the first time we have heard how Microsoft's console impacted the development of multiplatform games, but it is still disappointing.

lmao

I think this post needs a little reminder.

 

[Bojji]

It's one thing to have "concerns" but quite another to say a game will be designed to fit the limitations of one console. There is absolutely zero proof that this has happened in any game to date and barring this one example nothing to indicate this is the case with any future titles either.

Every "current gen" game is designed with limitations of Series S, you don't need any proof - just use logic, all games have to run on this machine. Only PS5 exclusives are free from SS memory constraints.

There are things like texture resolution, framebuffer and few others that can be scaled down to fit into low memory machine. But there are other things that can't be cut back and games are designed within SS memory architecture. Developers are restrained by SS until MS releases next Xbox or they just stop developing for Xbox consoles.

 

[Denton]

Game size and scope doesn't correlate linearly with RAM increase lmfao. Saying that you made the game 25% bigger because there was 25% more RAM is the stupidest fucking thing I've heard from a dev in a while. These are consoles with farrrrrr better CPUs, and equipped with SSDs that can stream in and out data at a far FARRR better rate.

This shit is limited in scope because that is all they can afford.

Pretty sure it was a joke by Martin Klíma (which was nonetheless rooted in reality of XSS being the limiting factor due to its smaller and slower memory). He has been making games for 30 years, I think he knows more about gamedev than anyone on this forum.

 

[GHG]

That's irrelevant, you said the developers vision was compromised, it wasn't.

None of that is irrelevant.

They couldn't develiver on their vision to a set of customers and it wasn't their fault. They wanted all the console versions to release at the same time and they wanted all of their console customers to have access to the same game modes/features as they advertised but it wasn't to be the case.

Not sure why you don't want to admit any of this. Given the statements from the developers paired with the results, I would have thought we were well past the point of the Series S being propped up and defended.

 

[Negotiator101]

Doesn't change the fact that it will need to have been built around the limitations of the Series S instead of the Series X/PS5.

Are you really playing this hand? That any developer has built their game from inception around the limitations of the Series S is unlikely but Rockstar?

Google the Xbox parity clause. edit, oh sorry "Bing" the Xbox parity clause.

Great post

 

[Pelao]

I'll just ignore it like every other 30fps-only game this gen.

 

[Flabagast]

that's ok imho, the game will push some pretty advanced tech in terms of graphics and NPC behavior

 

[Oppoi]

Are you really playing this hand? That any developer has built their game from inception around the limitations of the Series S is unlikely but Rockstar?


Great post

You're lost dude. On a positive note you've got nowhere to go but (???)

 

[Negotiator101]

Every "current gen" game is designed with limitations of Series S, you don't need any proof - just use logic, all games have to run on this machine. Only PS5 exclusives are free from SS memory constraints.

There are things like texture resolution, framebuffer and few others that can be scaled down to fit into low memory machine. But there are other things that can't be cut back and games are designed within SS memory architecture. Developers are restrained by SS until MS releases next Xbox or they just stop developing for Xbox consoles.

No mate, if that's the case then PC has configurations lower spec than Series S that run these games. So your assumption is irrelevant given the PC versions exist.

PS5 exclusives? is this a joke? Absolutely zero of them are doing anything we haven't seen before, so wheres the big difference? Flightsim for instance runs on Series S and that's a very ambitious game. You really don't know what you're talking about do you?

 

[Robochobo]

Every "current gen" game is designed with limitations of Series S, you don't need any proof - just use logic, all games have to run on this machine. Only PS5 exclusives are free from SS memory constraints.

There are things like texture resolution, framebuffer and few others that can be scaled down to fit into low memory machine. But there are other things that can't be cut back and games are designed within SS memory architecture. Developers are restrained by SS until MS releases next Xbox or they just stop developing for Xbox consoles.

Would you like to list these constructed for PS5 games that wouldn't be capable of running on 6/8GB ram systems on PC?
I'll give you a hint, (there are none)

 

[GHG]

Are you really playing this hand? That any developer has built their game from inception around the limitations of the Series S is unlikely but Rockstar?

Rockstar are a console first developer. The console versions are their only consideration at this point in time for GTA VI.

 

[Bernardougf]

Easy pass.. next.

 

[Oppoi]

No mate, if that's the case then PC has configurations lower spec than Series S that run these games. So your assumption is irrelevant given the PC versions exist.

PS5 exclusives? is this a joke? Absolutely zero of them are doing anything we haven't seen before, so wheres the big difference? Flightsim for instance runs on Series S and that's a very ambitious game. You really don't know what you're talking about do you?

Releasing a game on PC is not the same as releasing a game on console.

 

[Oppoi]

Releasing a game on PC is not the same as releasing a game on console. We're humouring you at this point.

 

[Oppoi]

No mate, if that's the case then PC has configurations lower spec than Series S that run these games. So your assumption is irrelevant given the PC versions exist.

PS5 exclusives? is this a joke? Absolutely zero of them are doing anything we haven't seen before, so wheres the big difference? Flightsim for instance runs on Series S and that's a very ambitious game. You really don't know what you're talking about do you?

Releasing a game on PC is not the same as releasing a game on console. We're humouring you at this point.

 

[Robochobo]

Releasing a game on PC is not the same as releasing a game on console.

So you're being willfully ignorant? Would you care to explain how considering these games are compiled in x86?

 

[adamsapple]

None of that is irrelevant.

They couldn't develiver on their vision to a set of customers and it wasn't their fault. They wanted all the console versions to release at the same time and they wanted all of their console customers to have access to the same game modes/features as they advertised but it wasn't to be the case.

Not sure why you don't want to admit any of this. Given the statements from the developers paired with the results, I would have thought we were well past the point of the Series S being propped up and defended.

Because the point of discussion in this thread being raised is that 25% extra RAM is directly responsible for this game being 'only' 25% bigger, which is kind of an absurd point since the entire game world is not residing in memory at one time anyway.

 

[Oppoi]

So you're being willfully ignorant? Would you care to explain how considering these games are compiled in x86?

Because of the terms. Like the parity clause.

 

[Bojji]

No mate, if that's the case then PC has configurations lower spec than Series S that run these games. So your assumption is irrelevant given the PC versions exist.

PS5 exclusives? is this a joke? Absolutely zero of them are doing anything we haven't seen before, so wheres the big difference? Flightsim for instance runs on Series S and that's a very ambitious game. You really don't know what you're talking about do you?

What games require machines with less memory than Series?

Two best looking current gen games (according to many people):

22GB of memory for PT and 26GB for HB2.

Sony games can use all that memory but it's not my fault that Sony didn't release many current gen games.

Would you like to list these constructed for PS5 games that wouldn't be capable of running on 6/8GB ram systems on PC?
I'll give you a hint, (there are none)

LOL, Sony games are the worst offenders when it comes to memory requirements on PC. They barely run on cards with 8GB of VRAM, that is the same amount that Series S have for EVERYTHING. You need at least 12GB of VRAM and 16GB of system memory to run any current gen Sony game properly on PC (but not on full settings without 16GB of VRAM).

 

[Negotiator101]

Rockstar are a console first developer. The console versions are their only consideration at this point in time for GTA VI.

What is this proving though? you've made a statement but have nothing to back it up. Yes they're releasing the game first on consoles, with a PC version to follow.

Releasing a game on PC is not the same as releasing a game on console.

No mate, you keep coming in with the one liners but you lack any actual knowledge of what you speak.

"Everything is converging around similar underlying CPU designs and GPU designs with layers on top of it," he added. "If you're a software developer, you just don't have to worry about it. It's like, 'Oh, it'll work on all of them.'"
Gabe Newell

Asked if the PS5 and Xbox Series X are now looking more like PCs in terms of their architecture, Newell said, "Right."

Go back to sleep buddy.

 

[SlimySnake]

Good. If you want 60 fps, buy a PC or a PS5 Pro.

Cant expect $399 consoles to be running next gen only games at 60 fps without sacrificing visual fidelity.

 

[Robochobo]

Because of the terms. Like the parity clause.

So you're just a troll, gotcha. I fail to see how that has anything to do with PS5 ports to PC or explains anything you have posted ITT.

 

[Oppoi]

What is this proving though? you've made a statement but have nothing to back it up. Yes they're releasing the game first on consoles, with a PC version to follow.

No mate, you keep coming in with the one liners but you lack any actual knowledge of what you speak.

"Everything is converging around similar underlying CPU designs and GPU designs with layers on top of it," he added. "If you're a software developer, you just don't have to worry about it. It's like, 'Oh, it'll work on all of them.'"
Gabe Newell

Asked if the PS5 and Xbox Series X are now looking more like PCs in terms of their architecture, Newell said, "Right."

Go back to sleep buddy.

I have only adressed the parity clause. Re-read the thread.

 

[Robochobo]

LOL, Sony games are the worst offenders when it comes to memory requirements on PC. They barely run on cards with 8GB of VRAM, that is the same amount that Series S have for EVERYTHING. You need at least 12GB of VRAM and 16GB of system memory to run any current gen Sony game properly on PC (but not on full settings without 16GB of VRAM).

You can run those games just fine on PC with lower than recommended settings. If you honestly believe (seems you do) that 6GB cards aren't able to run any PS5 port on PC, you should lookup benchmarks.

 

[Negotiator101]

I have only adressed the parity clause. Re-read the thread.

Seriously buddy you're just taking nonsense, either back up your statement or crawl back where you came from. I've shot you down twice, you've added nothing to the conversation.

Releasing a game on PC is not the same as releasing a game on console.

This has nothing to do with the parity clause as you put it, you're embarrassing yourself.

 

[Bojji]

You can run those games just fine on PC with lower than recommended settings. If you honestly believe (seems you do) that 6GB cards aren't able to run any PS5 port on PC, you should lookup benchmarks.

I don't say 6GB cards can't run those games (at all), I say that you can't run them with total memory of what Series S has.

TLoU and R&C:

16+4GB to run Last of Us on minimum and 8+4GB for R&C.

 

[Oppoi]

Seriously buddy you're just taking nonsense, either back up your statement or crawl back where you came from. I've shot you down twice, you've added nothing to the conversation.



This has nothing to do with the parity clause as you put it, you're embarrassing yourself.

Oh I see what's going on, you think I said that it's because of the Series S that the game is locked at 30fps. I didn't.

 

[adamsapple]

Good. If you want 60 fps, buy a PC or a PS5 Pro.

That is assuming this runs 60 on a PS5 Pro, or if PS5 Pro is real in the first place

I don't say 6GB cards can't run those games (at all), I say that you can't run them with total memory of what Series S has.

TLoU and R&C:

16+4GB to run Last of Us on minimum and 8+4GB for R&C.

I'm not sure if a direct 1 : 1 comparison with PC requirements is the best way to go. PC's have a lot more things that need resources running in the back-end, separate from the games.

 

[Oppoi]

Oh I see what's going on, you think I said that it's because of the Series S that the game is locked at 30fps. I didn't.

If only I could understand you, that Gabe quote wasn't even on the radar regarding what I was talking about. Perhaps you'd like it that way.

 

[Robochobo]

I don't say 6GB cards can't run those games (at all), I say that you can't run them with total memory of what Series S has.

TLoU and R&C:

16+4GB to run Last of Us on minimum and 8+4GB for R&C.

Of course you can't because that's not how RAM works between console and PC... holy shit my guy .

 

[UltimaKilo]

I don’t want to hear that it was a creative decision, or that they can’t. Particularly with FSR3, they can figure it out. They didn’t even try for 40fps? Holy hell.

I’ll wait for the major update.

 

[Oppoi]

From the article:

As reported on the Czech website Zing.cz, during the ongoing Game Access event in Brno, Czech Republic, producer Martin Klíma confirmed that the Xbox Series S technical limitations, namely the 10 GB of RAM, have impacted Kingdom Come Deliverance 2's scope. As the weakest current generation console has only 25% more RAM, Warhorse Studios decided to make the game only 25% bigger than its predecessor. This isn't the first time we have heard how Microsoft's console impacted the development of multiplatform games, but it is still disappointing.

lmao

Now that is interresting...

 

[Saber]

Maybe it's just a creative decision, like Starfield devs said before the update that render that same statement feel like it was made by retards.

 

[Bojji]

Of course you can't because that's not how RAM works between console and PC... holy shit my guy .

Show me current gen Sony game running on machine close in specs to Series S.

Series S has 8GB of memory for VRAM and RAM usage.

 

[Thief1987]

That just adds even more workload on an already smaller sized dev team making an open world RPG that have been getting more difficult to develop for in a timely fashion. Not to mention the fact their last and only game came out 6 years ago. It's not as if they can work on the game indefinitely. They need to finish and release it as salaries and bills need to get paid.

And? It's not my problem, so I don't care about their difficulties. Incompetence shouldn't be rewarded, at least I will do my part, plenty of other games exist.

 

[Robochobo]

Show me current gen Sony game running on machine close in specs to Series S.

Series S has 8GB of memory for VRAM and RAM usage.

You are comparing the RAM setup of a PC to that of console man. That's not how that works at all. Holy moly how dense are you?

 

[Bojji]

That is assuming this runs 60 on a PS5 Pro, or if PS5 Pro is real in the first place






I'm not sure if a direct 1 : 1 comparison with PC requirements is the best way to go. PC's have a lot more things that need resources running in the back-end, separate from the games.

Some people claim that PC is the minimum spec/target for games and no series S. This is obviously not the case when it comes to memory requirements.

You are comparing the RAM setup of a PC to that of console man. That's not how that works at all. Holy moly how dense are you?

You said that PS5 ports don't need much memory. If you were talking about games that first appeared on PS4 then fine.

I know that memory setup of consoles and PC is different but where are those former PS5 exclusives running on potato PCs?

 

[Oppoi]

Maybe it's just a creative decision, like Starfield devs said before the update that render that same statement feel like it was made by retards.

I sure hope this game is nothing like Starfield. Imagine that! Four load screens just to fast travel, with a cinematic of Henry putting his fucking socks on. Every time!

 

[Kataploom]

It seems like a lose lose situation. If they prioritize 60fps, people think the game looks last gen. If they prioritize visuals but 30fps, people think it runs terribly.

I'll always take 60fps over fidelity but just in general, it seems lose lose on devs' ends.

The other hand, devs can save some money if assets are not "industry pushing" or whatever if they stay on 60fps as baseline, imo that's the best approach right now

 

[squarealex]

the game runs at 30 fps pass. But why developers do not make the effort to add an option for uncapped framerate.. ?
Saves them from making a patch 5 years later or never. And then better hardware running at 60fps.

 

[dreamstation]

Would be good if they could add a performance option too for those of us that prefer smoother gameplay over better visuals.

 

[Robochobo]

You said that PS5 ports don't need much memory. If you were talking about games that first appeared on PS4 then fine.

I know that memory setup of consoles and PC is different but where are those former PS5 exclusives running on potato PCs?

You are completely free at any time to youtube *PS5 port 1060 gtx benchmark* and look at the results. The 1060 is a 6 year old card by the way.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Ah come on, at least give us a 40fps mode.

 

[adamsapple]

Ah come on, at least give us a 40fps mode.

Here, here.

40hz modes should be standard, all the modern consoles have support for it.

 

[Bojji]

You are completely free at any time to youtube *PS5 port 1060 gtx benchmark* and look at the results. The 1060 is a 6 year old card by the way.

It also has 6GB of VRAM, any PC in vids like that also has probably ~16GB of RAM.



Game uses 12GB of system RAM and maxes out 6GB of 1060. Tell me this will run fine on Series S...