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Max Payne 3 is a bad game [very long rant]

91 hours in the single player alone and counting. I really love the max payne series, and 3 brings a lot of things that makes it a stellar game. I think a lot of people give it a hard time for the writing style being different and the setting too. but hey, i love the different perspective between remedy's max and rockstar's max. couldn't be happier to have this game in my library.


The gameplay is extremely satisfyin and the encounters for the enemies are tight enough for me to experiment the bullettime and shootdodges in the game. even with so much time in the game, i still find new ways to confront the enemies and react faster to the game. new york minute is extremely fun for that.



I'm also not really into multiplayer, but this portion of the game is really cool too, bringing the great gameplay to online and all. the only sad thing is how dead it is in some modes.


This thread is really old and i can see why someone wouldn't like this game or the difference between this and the previous max paynes. But it's kind of ridiculous to say it's a bad game or anything man. I get it that we as fans of games has passion for this hobby and sometimes when a game doesn't resonate with your sensibilities you get pissed.


Well, one man's gold is another man's trash
 

Sojgat

Member
Sorry what mechanics work against you in mp3?

People who say the gunplay is worse than mp2 and mp1 are just flat out wrong.

Unskippable cutscenes - these are indeed horrible
Characterization and story - Worse than 1 & 2 in every way
(Apart from the the free aim) Controls - why play anything else than free aim? Controls are great.
Scripted events - A cool way to show off awesome moments
Enemy variety - Just as in mp1 & 2, you shoot people. What variety do you need?
Encounter design - only a handful of annoying ones

Of course I never use anything other than free aim, I just mean that aside from the aiming precision, Max doesn't control well. No cover transitioning (even though the game cries out for it), he's obviously meant to feel weighty, but he just feels sluggish, constant auto shoulder switch bugs the shit out of me, vertical cover often obstructs view, Max can obscure the reticle with his body when shoot dodging, etc.

Also, none of the encounter designs are annoying (I'm too good at the game now), they're just bad. Some areas are good, but there are too many tight corridors, like the favela is just garbage for that. Dive, head shot, rinse and repeat or just stay in cover and use the blindfire into ADS over and over. I don't know though, I can't stop playing or talking about this game...
 
Except MP3 is neither poorly designed or poorly executed. I'll give you that some of the writing is bad but Max himself and his character arc in 3 was fantastic as far as I'm concerned.
Because cutscenes appear every 5 minutes and them being unskippable is such a good design.
 

bj00rn_

Banned
The unskippable cutscenes drove me crazy at times, absolute horrendous. And the nagging didn't help either.. But other than that I had a great time with the game. I don't mind opinions, but the OP kinda undermined himself with that overboard bitchy rant.
 

jem0208

Member
It's the worst game in the series.

I disagree. I felt like it was the only one a slight focus on stealth. The others have been getting steadily more and more action orientated. I also much prefer the setting in Jerusalem compared to Rome etc.

I haven't played AC4 though, so judgement is still out on that one.
 

Screaming Meat

Unconfirmed Member
The way the physics and gunplay combine is annoying. You're in cover and you dive out shooting only to collide with any scenery in your way. It disrupts your momentum and makes every encounter a chore.

Combined with the unskippabe cutscenes and you've got a game that's very poor.

Why are you diving from cover into scenery? Best use of Shoot Dodge is to dive into cover. It's more efficient to use the normal bullet time the majority of the time (unless you're on the higher two difficulties).

I think of the gameplay in terms of Dark Souls in the sense that you commit to each move you make and pay the consequences for mistakes.

binary domain is a better shooter

truth bomb

Your "Truthbomb" is a dud, sir! ;)
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
Uncompressed video cutscenes -- enjoy a bluerays worth of in engine uncompressed cutscenes. Also this thread has been massively necroed, just saying.
Doesn't look like a necrobump. It looks like this thread has been steady for the past few months. It was on the first page when I replied so I don't care.

And fucking hell, video cutscenes in 2013? Really? Who the fuck made this game, "We don't care about optimization for PC users because they can just buy better machines" Ubisoft?
 

partyboy

Member
i really, really wish rockstar had released a patch or something to fix those goddamn cutscenes. you start the game and load a save and have it going in 30 seconds. but apparently after 6 minutes of cutscene it's still "loading?" get REAL

it's so frustrating because the gameplay is so fun and kinetic and amps you up, and every 2 minutes you're blocked by a cutscene. i often have the urge to play it but then i remember the cutscenes and just don't bother. mind boggling that they left the game is this state
 

Strike

Member
It's not. Mechanically it's actually one of the finest third person shooters of its gen. It's the narrative that falls short of its predecessors. It comes of as "Rockstar presesnts a Max Payne game" rather than full fledged sequel to Remedy's titles. That was to be expected since Remedy had very little to do with it.
 
i thought the story was better than the first 2 also. guess i wasn't the biggest max payne fan though. i liked the games, but enjoyed them nowhere near as much as rockstars game. its better on all fronts.
 
They should release an update that gives users access to the game's assets so someone could mod a seemless level w/o any cutscenes. w/ co-op.
 

NeoGash

Member
I love Rockstar, they are one of the most impressive developers/publishers in gaming.
I love Max Payne 1&2, they are damn awesome. The first especially.
I fucking hate Max Payne 3.

Anyone who says it has good gameplay should have to play Vanquish or Gears of War first, mainly the 3rd one. Rockstar games always have this shitty fucking input lag or dodgy controls, like in GTA or RDR (one of the best games ever...but still). It's funny, because as much as I love Alan Wake, it has that god-awful, fucking annoying 'Rockstar game' feel. Remedy must have kept a lot of the tech they had from their Rockstar/Max Payne days. So damn bad and it should not be acceptable in a AAA game. As much as I love Rockstar, their gameplay/controls are fucking pathetic, something even shitty games get right.

RDR has some of the worst controls ever, it feels like you are controlling a drunk, peg-legged fuck-tard who is also blind.

(This was a rant not just about MaxP 3, but Rocktstar's games in general. Eeeeeeeeew 2/10 gameplay)
 

Fjordson

Member
Anyone who says it has good gameplay should have to play Vanquish or Gears of War first, mainly the 3rd one.
Played both and I'll still take Max Payne 3 any day of the week.

Rockstar combat was pretty bad back in 2008 with GTA IV, but I had no issues with RDR, Max Payne 3 or GTA V.
 

NeoGash

Member
Played both and I'll still take Max Payne 3 any day of the week.

Rockstar combat was pretty bad back in 2008 with GTA IV, but I had no issues with RDR, Max Payne 3 or GTA V.

Oh okay. I still think RDR movement is pathetic and the cover system laughable. Different strokes I suppose, but I was spoiled this generation with Gears of War (played it for thousands of hours online, no other 3rd person shooter can match its fluidity - cover and shooting done right).

EDIT: just as an FYI, I think RDR as a game is better than Vanquish and Gears of War; it is a once in a generation game, but I still find the movement to be clunky as hell and the cover/running system broken.
 

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Me: "So Max, here you are, nobody's hearing you yet, so the smart thing to do is to silently position yourself and get an advantageous position to ambush your enemies who have yet realized you are there........"

Max: "YOOOOOOOOOOOOO I AM HERE ANNOUNCING MY PRESENCE EVEN THOUGH IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT NECESSARY!"

Me slaps forehead.

The final fight is also stupid when it punishes you with instant-death the moment Max crosses the stupid "borders" around the area. Bleh.
 

Fjordson

Member
Oh okay. I still think RDR movement is pathetic and the cover system laughable. Different strokes I suppose, but I was spoiled this generation with Gears of War (played it for thousands of hours online, no other 3rd person shooter can match its fluidity - cover and shooting done right).
Fair enough. Vanquish and Gears are certainly great games in their own right. I just like the overall package of MP 3 a bit more.
 

Kevtones

Member
Game is boring dogshit. Everything felt so static and poorly representative of the 'story'. Awful presentation with a lot of gloss.


Worst game of 2013 aside from Knack.
 

jimi_dini

Member

And people said it would have been great, if Rockstar would have implemented withdrawal symptoms of alcohol + drugs. See, Rockstar implemented it. ;-)

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/alcohol-abuse/alcohol-withdrawal-symptoms-treatments
Alcohol withdrawal symptoms can begin as early as two hours after the last drink, persist for weeks, and range from mild anxiety and shakiness to severe complications, such as seizures and delirium tremens (also called DTs).
 

Devil

Member
I haven't been a fan of any MP game yet, because I haven't played 1 and 2. But I bought 3 and absolutely agree with the OP. I'm not able to say whether it is a bad MP game or not, but I don't see why OP isn't allowed to say it is a bad game. I think it is a bad game as well.
 
Me: "So Max, here you are, nobody's hearing you yet, so the smart thing to do is to silently position yourself and get an advantageous position to ambush your enemies who have yet realized you are there........"

Max: "YOOOOOOOOOOOOO I AM HERE ANNOUNCING MY PRESENCE EVEN THOUGH IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT NECESSARY!"

Me slaps forehead.

The final fight is also stupid when it punishes you with instant-death the moment Max crosses the stupid "borders" around the area. Bleh.

Now that was bullshit. Completely going against the spirit of a Max Payne game by forcing you to stick within arbitary boundaries and turtle around in cover in case you step an inch out too far and get insta-killed. At least the chase sequence afterwards was easier and more fun to make up for it.
 

Seyavesh

Member
just like how DmC's incredibly terrible story and general tone kinda ruined it for a lot of folks who played it, despite having pretty competent gameplay (though inferior to dmc3/4, which is masterful) mp3 falls into the same category

the story is really jarringly terrible and the loading screens disguised as cutscenes do it no justice because every second you spend watching the cutscenes is an active detriment to the enjoyment of the game. that the game doesn't load them while pausing either means it's impossible to not have your experience actively hampered by them.

the gunplay is rather immaculate though and definitely captures a certain feel more reminiscent of movies like 'way of the gun' rather than the john woo styled gunfights of mp1/2- both are good, but drastically different.

i think there's a drastic pacing and stage problem starting from act 2 but i'm not really able to explain what it is because i don't generally examine or analyze that sort of thing. but it's like.. how to put it? in mp2 at the very least, you tend to fight a 'rational' amount of dudes in settings that were somewhat arena-to-arena ish- with mp3 it feels like more often you're fighting armies worth of people while advancing through hallway-ish areas.

i know the army thing is part of the story, but once again it adds to the detriment of the gameplay because that twist is so terrible. my killcount at the end of mp3 was over a thousand which is an insane bodycount, even by mp1/2's standards- it makes sense from a design standpoint since gunplay is extremely lethal and having a smaller amount of enemies would make encounters 'too easy' and making enemies expert shooters would make it too frustrating. but somethin' is really off that the story takes it so seriously while only barely acknowledging that at a minimum max has put literally over 1000 trained mercs and whatnot in bodybags before the game ends. even mp2 acknowledged this several times, referencing mp1's insane bodycount and having basically everyone who aren't the cleaners freak out about how he is basically an unstoppable killing machine

also small nitpick but what was up with the main theme of the game playing randomly on the final stage during a part that ultimately wasn't that important and lead to nothing? that was really weird

the biggest crime of them all is that it doesn't have dead man walking as a default mode because that way it could just express the gunplay without having to deal with annoying story cues and 'offputting' level design.

ok that's my venting for mp3 of which i bought for 4 dollars and refuse to spend another 2 on to make into something i would play again

edit: from a character standpoint max is not the same dude, which is annoying but whatever. what's really annoying is that he has no agency in the story whatsoever and is a huge moron by 'game story pretending to be clever' design when mp2/1 successfully did twists without taking away max's agency or making the player think he's a moron. mp1/2's max in story put together pieces and you as a player never really felt a step ahead or behind him- everything made sense and going back the twists still make sense in context of what is happening. i mean for god's sake in mp1 you solve a fucking giant illuminati conspiracy about basically crack and somehow it makes more sense both storywise and tonally than this more 'grounded/realistic' story of mp3 they try to sell tonally
 

HariKari

Member
Now that was bullshit. Completely going against the spirit of a Max Payne game by forcing you to stick within arbitary boundaries and turtle around in cover in case you step an inch out too far and get insta-killed. At least the chase sequence afterwards was easier and more fun to make up for it.

Definitely. Not sure why they were so heavy-handed with the rails at times.

I really liked Max Payne 3. I'm not sure if it's because I played it in mostly one sitting or what, but the flaws with the movement and cutscenes never really bothered me. The ending boss fight and the cemetery sniper fight were absolutely stupid, though. I don't know how you playtest those and think they're fun.

Game had typically great Rockstar storytelling and it was fun to see Max Payne out of his element as a bodyguard to the rich in a country he doesn't know well. Easily worth the sale price it has been at recently.
 

Thorn

Member
A really great game that is highly underrated. There's sooooo much hyperbole in this thread. I agree that the game has its flaws but to call it bad is completely ridiculous.
 
I wouldn't say it's a bad game anymore that I would say any other AAA setpiece shooter(with very few exceptions) is bad. It's just boring to me. It certainly has stuff going for it. The VA is pretty great. I have some fundamental problems with the design strategy but it's not poorly made by any stretch.

EDIT: i've probably already posted something like this in this thread. feels like voting twice.
 

TheCloser

Banned
Yea, i really don't agree with the OP at all. We are all entitled to our opinions but i liked Max Payne 3. It was a good game. It had a good story, good gameplay and good graphics. I had fun while playing the game on my pc.
 

SnowTeeth

Banned
Need more details. Platform, game mode

I'm playing on PC and all cut-scenes are skippable. I just bought the game during this Steam sale so I'm not sure when this became possible.



I'm enjoying the game so far, but then I've barely started. The cover system, running and gunning seems fun and responsive to me. Looking forward to the rest of the game.

I can't believe I'm running this nearly full spec on a GTX 570 (everything at highest setting but with 2xMSSA, though I've added 2x SGGSA to it too. Looks so good). I only wish that visual distortion effect was decreased by 25-50% as it's annoying at this level.
 
the gunplay is rather immaculate though and definitely captures a certain feel more reminiscent of movies like 'way of the gun' rather than the john woo styled gunfights of mp1/2- both are good, but drastically different.

MP3 is much more of a John Woo (HK era) shooter than the previous games. Watch any Woo action flick and you'll see the protagonists diving into scenery or tumbling all over the place just to avoid getting shot. Emphasis is placed on the keeping the sense of danger intact. Woo's protagonists are almost never safe during a shootout; they show fear, they take cover, they're constantly alert. Anything badass they do is done out of desperation to avoid getting shot, or in order to kill an enemy.

MP2, Stranglehold and WET are more about being out in the open and looking cool while shooting with little moment-to-moment fear of getting killed, either because of ridiculously long health bars (Stranglehold, WET) or an abundance of easily acquired bullet time (MP2, Stranglehold). Stranglehold gives you power moves that make you invincible, letting you stand straight up in the open and easily kill enemies. MP2's bullet time regenerates on its own and lets you glide through levels faster the more headshots you get. WET has a slide-anywhere move, gymnast-type environment interaction and a melee weapon. All this is in effort to spice up the core combat; you're not

A lot of shots in Woo's movies focus on (relatively) subtle actions by the protagonists — in Hard Boiled, there's a scene in the hospital where tequila rounds a corner, sees a guy about to take a shot at him, and he then dives out of the way of the shot into the wall. He bounces off and during the rebound, shoots the guy before landing on the floor himself. Something like this would never be notable in MP2, SH, WET or most other TPSs of this type because you're busy moving three times as fast as everyone else because of MP2's bullet time or you're doing an uneven bars routine in WET.

These games feel more like parodies of John Woo movies (especially Stranglehold, sadly enough, where you're dodging bullets while standing in one place like an Agent from the Matrix) than legitimate John Woo-style shooters. Stranglehold is like The Replacement Killers (and that "tequila bomb" move was actually used in the final shootout of that movie), so we can say it's an Antoine Fuqua-flick game considering how it plays.

MP3 captures the physicality of Woo action films far more appropriately than any other TPS because it plays like a Woo movie. Tonally, the game might seem more like Man on Fire or Way of the Gun as far as story/setting goes, but the parts that matter most are straight out of Hard Boiled or The Killer (maybe a bit messier than those, like A Better Tomorrow). The scene where Mark Gor steals evidence from the counterfeit operation in A Better Tomorrow, he tumbles over garbage bins during his escape and falls. The messiness illustrates the desperation (Mark's still got a bum leg, he's in the enemy's lair) and the scene is all the more intense because of it.

Max Payne 2 lets the player avoid repercussions for movement decisions/diving (with its goofy, hip-swishing run animation for Max); you slide off the scenery and flip upright in an instant. Diving straight into a wall would make you bounce back in a John Woo movie (like I mentioned what happens in Hard Boiled), yet here, diving has little risk to it, only reward. There's more focus on looking cool than having exciting back and forth where the player can feel like the odds are against them. Even though the design is a bit dated, I credit the first Max Payne for providing intense, albeit janky, grenade throwing moments that had you desperately trying to figure out where the grenade was exactly, then dive anywhere just to avoid getting blown up.

The first two Max Payne titles' gameplay gets called John Woo-ish — just because it involves a guy dual wielding in slow motion — to the point it's just widely accepted as fact, a given. They're more like the Matrix (which itself emulated John Woo, a bit) in which their protagonists are generally perfect at what they're doing; only in special circumstances are you worried about their survival. Whether it's the type of action you like or it's a type you hate, MP3 is the closest we have to John Woo gameplay, even closer than the "John Woo presents" video game. There are glaring was with the game overall, but the core shooting gameplay is spot on for what it attempts to be.
 

Creaking

He touched the black heart of a mod
also small nitpick but what was up with the main theme of the game playing randomly on the final stage during a part that ultimately wasn't that important and lead to nothing? that was really weird

I thought it was weird too at first, but it felt a lot better when I replayed the story on Old-School difficulty (which doesn't slow you down with last stands and whatnot) and there was a bigger challenge to getting through the large airport terminal hall. The part itself is interesting in that it gives you a couple of paths to go about getting to the other side of the huge room.
 

Seyavesh

Member
mp2/3 comparisons

i'm more thinking along the lines of stuff like a better tomorrow 2 and also hard boiled when i think 'john woo'-ish, especially in the final shootouts of those movies. the heroes are effectively invulnerable and a lot of tension is lost at the point where they just start flat out blastin tons of dudes with acrobatics and general kinda frantic gunplay. there's a lot of movement and shooting with extremely brief periods of cover for 'dramatic' pauses like reloading, which mp1/2 definitely capture feeling-wise. i feel like mp3 spends alot more time in cover with brief periods of poking out and shootouts while moving are relegated to when you have bullet time rather than 'almost always' specific because of the high lethality and number of enemies.

mp3 being more akin to abt1 and the killer's more tense action scenes definitely makes sense though and i can definitely see that, especially in comparison the killer. guns are super lethal and the protagonists feel very vulnerable at all times- cover is used alot in those movies and whatever acrobatics they do are 100% done out of pure desperation, rather than being ridiculous invulnerable hero action stuff like tequila's 'i'm gonna slide down the stairs and shoot guns at people with uzis' deal.

edit: i guess i'm looking at it in a way that deals more with the link of tone of those shootouts and max payne gunplay vs the actions within the shots themselves and gunplay
 
Great post

I agree man! i think that because of technology, max 1 and 2 were never fully realized into this style of gameplay. Actually, Rockstar usually makes "because it's friday" before the release of some of their games, where they recommend movies that not only were inspirations for the game, but to get you in the mood(elite squad for the neo noir atsmophere, and john woo's movies for the gameplay)
 
Got it in a steam sale. Was a dumb fun action game. Had a good time with it. Your rant comes across as you expected some thing else.

Heh, that's exactly what I noticed with some mates who didn't like it. They wanted it to be more than a shooter, wrong mindset. Probably wanted more puzzles and shit. Though I did miss the dream sequences from MP2 (The MP1 ones can go die in a fire).
 

The Real Abed

Perma-Junior
Got it in a steam sale. Was a dumb fun action game. Had a good time with it. Your rant comes across as you expected some thing else.
I spent $4 on it. But I'll be damned if I'm going to spend 8 hours downloading 30GB to my laptop. I'll wait until I have a Steam Machine where space doesn't matter as much.
 
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