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[M1chl]

I will be keeping an eye on the stable releases in the future - being able to play Timesplitters on a "modern" console...yes please!

There is probably never going to be "stable version" retro arch is that sort of live software, that due to being open source with many contributors is going to be constatnly evolving. There is always a way how to do it more efficietnly and now when you have single platform, you can do way more with it's CPU feature set and stuff like that. Not sure how much access you have to CPU-low level function in UWP mode tho.

 

[sainraja]

Yeah, I think there is a good reason Sony hasn't invested as much into backwards compatibility like Microsoft has this time around. The payoff and time investment on our parts isn't that great, we say we want it but we don't really "use" it once we have newer games to play. You have to remember that Sony was the first (as far as I can tell) to offer backwards compatibility on consoles with the PS2. They continued that trend with the PS3. On the PS3, we had the option to play both PS1 & PS3 games. I think the PS3 generation was a turning point fo b/c and Sony.

I know Microsoft has brought that back into the mix so let's see what happens going forward but I wonder if Microsoft decided to focus so much on b/c because they think it is what helped Sony in the past. Who knows.

 

[ExpandKong]

What are the odds of playable PS3 emulation on this thing (more likely the Series X)?

What we're seeing so far is enticing, to be sure, but I think PS3 emulation would push me over the edge on this.

 

[M1chl]

Yeah, I think there is a good reason Sony hasn't invested as much into backwards compatibility like Microsoft has this time around. The payoff and time investment on our parts isn't that great, we say we want it but we don't really "use" it once we have newer games to play. You have to remember that Sony was the first (as far as I can tell) to offer backwards compatibility on consoles with the PS2. They continued that trend with the PS3. On the PS3, we had the option to play both PS1 & PS3 games. I think the PS3 generation was a turning point fo b/c and Sony.

I know Microsoft has brought that back into the mix so let's see what happens going forward but I wonder if Microsoft decided to focus so much on b/c because they think it is what helped Sony in the past. Who knows.

I hope that you are aware of the situation, that this sort of thing is not work of MS, it's work of tens of people as a open source software.

GitHub - libretro/RetroArch: Cross-platform, sophisticated frontend for the libretro API. Licensed GPLv3.

Cross-platform, sophisticated frontend for the libretro API. Licensed GPLv3. - libretro/RetroArch

github.com

Well it's actually more than 400 people.

What are the odds of playable PS3 emulation on this thing (more likely the Series X)?

What we're seeing so far is enticing, to be sure, but I think PS3 emulation would push me over the edge on this.

That emulator is far from mature and also it's hard to say, what kind of limitation there is to the UWP app. Nobody really came forward with this. I tried back then create some podscast app and there was a tons of APIs, but I don't know if there were some APIs to call GPU/CPU directly.

 

[Zog]

PCs have been emulating games on consoles for years. I'm not sure why this particular PC is seen as anything different.

...because it's a console?

 

[8BiTw0LF]

If it gets Switch emulation I'll be all over it

 

[Zog]

If it gets Switch emulation I'll be all over it

Yeah, who wouldn't want to play inferior third party ports on a new console?

 

[Esppiral]

I have a Pc that's way lower spec'ed than the series X, and Wii-U and ps3 emulation runs great for the most part, so If any of the developers of those emulators wanted to build an UWP version of their emulators they would run great on Xbox Series for the most part.

 

[Blond]

I will straight up die laughing if retroarch adds the PCSX3 core to it because Sony will have major egg on their faces

 

[dano1]

Just so you know you can buy a PS2 for around $50 and do it the right way...

 

[M1chl]

Just so you know you can buy a PS2 for around $50 and do it the right way...

Yeah you can, however it's great to have one box rather than 10s of them. But I think everyone interested in gaming owns something like Slim PS2 anyway. It's nice piece of gaming history.

 

[wvnative]

Just so you know you can buy a PS2 for around $50 and do it the right way...

Xenosaga 3 is $300, for some games it ain't practical

 

[lock2k]

Is it able to run PCSX3?

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Somebody should implement PS4 emulator

 

[scydrex]

Damn this is appealing for sure. What about Wii U? If the switch could run as well... I would definitely get one.

 

[M1chl]

Is it able to run PCSX3?

So far not, it's in infancy basically to be ported like this. Even PS2 emulator, which has been on PC for a long time is still buggy on UWP....

 

[YeulEmeralda]

wasn't worth it does also imply that it would be a lot of work... but it wouldn't.
this is something fans do on the side for free, fans that have no insights to the actual hardware and had to reverse engineer everything and puzzle it together for themselves.

meanwhile Sony and their developers have detailed hardware and API specs for every system + actually professionals hired to do this.

so to assume it would be some sort of challenging task to get PS1 and PS2 running on PS5 is laughable.

even such an early and hacked together build of retroarch on Xbox X|S already has a very high compatibility percentage and very good performance.

on top of that they already have a working PS2 emulator on PS4 and have shown that they have no issue using third party emulators with the PS Classic Mini.

I never claimed Sony can't do it I'm saying its not worth even the minuscule effort for them.

 

[firegamer273]

microsoft the new sony .

 

[ExpandKong]

Somebody should implement PS4 emulator

Let's skip 4 and go straight to a PS5 emulator

 

[VincentMatts]

I would never use it, but its cool that its an option. well done.

 

[sainraja]

I hope that you are aware of the situation, that this sort of thing is not work of MS, it's work of tens of people as a open source software.

GitHub - libretro/RetroArch: Cross-platform, sophisticated frontend for the libretro API. Licensed GPLv3.

Cross-platform, sophisticated frontend for the libretro API. Licensed GPLv3. - libretro/RetroArch

github.com

Well it's actually more than 400 people.


That emulator is far from mature and also it's hard to say, what kind of limitation there is to the UWP app. Nobody really came forward with this. I tried back then create some podscast app and there was a tons of APIs, but I don't know if there were some APIs to call GPU/CPU directly.

Yes, the subject matter of this thread isn't by Microsoft. I do understand that. I was just commenting on the fact that backwards compatibility being a thing again now is because Microsoft is pushing for it on their consoles (in the past it was Sony.) That is all. I mean, you should understand that sometimes threads to include multiple different discussions that are related.

 

[sainraja]

wasn't worth it does also imply that it would be a lot of work... but it wouldn't.
this is something fans do on the side for free, fans that have no insights to the actual hardware and had to reverse engineer everything and puzzle it together for themselves.

meanwhile Sony and their developers have detailed hardware and API specs for every system + actually professionals hired to do this.

so to assume it would be some sort of challenging task to get PS1 and PS2 running on PS5 is laughable.

even such an early and hacked together build of retroarch on Xbox X|S already has a very high compatibility percentage and very good performance.

on top of that they already have a working PS2 emulator on PS4 and have shown that they have no issue using third party emulators with the PS Classic Mini.

So what exactly is the process that the fans who do it on the side go through? What are their motivations for doing so? How much time has it taken them? And how can you say they have no insights to the actual hardware after it has been released to the public. They are not working on it blind. How much fo the actual process that they go through DO YOU have actual knowledge of?

 

[InDaGulag]

It's pretty crazy, only think which bothers me is that if other companies are going to try to push MS to disable the dev mode, which would suck)

Nothing of the sort will happen. Do you see Nintendo demanding Google make their Android OS a walled garden or Sony demanding Microsoft make Windows a walled garden to cripple emulation?

Of course not.

Emualtion and Retroarch are both legal. Other companies can sod off. If Microsoft wants to allow a dev mode and third-party apps on the consoles then that's their choice.

 

[M1chl]

Nothing of the sort will happen. Do you see Nintendo demanding Google make their Android OS a walled garden or Sony demanding Microsoft make Windows a walled garden to cripple emulation?

Of course not.

Emualtion and Retroarch are both legal. Other companies can sod off. If Microsoft wants to allow a dev mode and third-party apps on the consoles then that's their choice.

I said the same argument in this thread after I wrote mine. I did not think that through.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

When your killer app is that you can play 20 year old games lol

 

[M1chl]

Yes, the subject matter of this thread isn't by Microsoft. I do understand that. I was just commenting on the fact that backwards compatibility being a thing again now is because Microsoft is pushing for it on their consoles (in the past it was Sony.) That is all. I mean, you should understand that sometimes threads to include multiple different discussions that are related.

Sorry that I did not comprehend this, I sometimes am not the brightes light : )

 

[Zog]

When your killer app is that you can play 20 year old games lol

The PS5's new killer app is an almost 12 year old game.

 

[iHaunter]

That funny moment when the Xbox will emulate more games from the PS1/PS2/PS3 era than the PS5

I'd rather they focus on good new games than shitty old ones.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

What are the odds of playable PS3 emulation on this thing (more likely the Series X)?

What we're seeing so far is enticing, to be sure, but I think PS3 emulation would push me over the edge on this.

Relatively high odds, but it all depends if Retroarch will add compatibility with PCSX3 core support - for now they don't really want to. If XSS popularize emulation, some enthusiasts might add the support.

Yeah, I think there is a good reason Sony hasn't invested as much into backwards compatibility like Microsoft has this time around. The payoff and time investment on our parts isn't that great, we say we want it but we don't really "use" it once we have newer games to play. You have to remember that Sony was the first (as far as I can tell) to offer backwards compatibility on consoles with the PS2. They continued that trend with the PS3. On the PS3, we had the option to play both PS1 & PS3 games. I think the PS3 generation was a turning point fo b/c and Sony.

As far as I remember PS3 has compatibility with PS2 simply because it has some cores or PS2 microchip inside. It was not a software emulation at all.

MS is on the other hand uses software emulation and it helps that Xbox has always been running some version of Windows and Windows allows you to run games from DOS and even earlier probably era. Xbox is basically a lightweight PC at this point.

I know Microsoft has brought that back into the mix so let's see what happens going forward but I wonder if Microsoft decided to focus so much on b/c because they think it is what helped Sony in the past. Who knows.

Backward compatibility did not help Sony in the past and the reason why MS brought it because they need a lot of games and compatibility with older games creates a huge attachment rate. Sony for example does not need that because their consoles sell anyway because they are Sony Playstation. Even if PS5 did not have compatibility with PS4 games it would sell a lot of anyway. MS is trying to create attachment rate using ecosystem, while Sony does by leveraging the brand power.

 

[RScrewed]

When your killer app is that you can play 20 year old games lol

I really don't understand how you can be this dense.

 

[Esppiral]

The PS5's new killer app is an almost 12 year old game.

 

[sainraja]

Relatively high odds, but it all depends if Retroarch will add compatibility with PCSX3 core support - for now they don't really want to. If XSS popularize emulation, some enthusiasts might add the support.


As far as I remember PS3 has compatibility with PS2 simply because it has some cores or PS2 microchip inside. It was not a software emulation at all.

MS is on the other hand uses software emulation and it helps that Xbox has always been running some version of Windows and Windows allows you to run games from DOS and even earlier probably era. Xbox is basically a lightweight PC at this point.

OK? I was just saying Sony focused on backwards compatibility in the past. They did it when transitioning from PS1 over to PS2 and then later with PS2 to PS3. Analyzing and observing behavior does not require or specify how backwards compatibility needs to be reached, lol.

Backward compatibility did not help Sony in the past and the reason why MS brought it because they need a lot of games and compatibility with older games creates a huge attachment rate. Sony for example does not need that because their consoles sell anyway because they are Sony Playstation. Even if PS5 did not have compatibility with PS4 games it would sell a lot of anyway. MS is trying to create attachment rate using ecosystem, while Sony does by leveraging the brand power.

Sony didn't get that leverage by doing nothing the past few years. They tried things. Some worked and some didn't work out. I was just speculating that maybe Microsoft was looking at the past and trying to figure out things that they need to do in order to establish that. We know why Sony isn't focusing on it now but that isn't relevant to what they tried in the past.

 

[sainraja]

The PS5's new killer app is an almost 12 year old game.

We all tend to look at things based on our own likes and dislikes but you should have the capability to look past that. Sony's got more than that. You can discount Sackboy, Spiderman, etc and the upcoming Ratchet games all you want by saying you're not interested but they are trying to cater to a wide audience with their launch. They've got the 12 year old remaster and a bunch of others games. Let's not say otherwise.

 

[Craig of War]

I'd rather they focus on good new games than shitty old ones.

Are you saying that Classic games like God of War, Silent Hill 2, Gran Turismo 4, Metal Gear Solid 2 are shitty wtf how dare the audacity.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

That funny moment when the Xbox will emulate more games from the PS1/PS2/PS3 era than the PS5

I wonder when PCSX3 will run on this, I'm fairly sure the CPU can handle a couple of games on it pretty well.

 

[nikolino840]

Can sony calls the lawyers against Microsoft?

 

[lock2k]

Can sony calls the lawyers against Microsoft?

No. Emulators are legal. They would only be illegal If achieved though reverse engineering of the actual original code.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Nice!

 

[mhirano]

Let's skip 4 and go straight to a PS5 emulator

There is already a PS5 emulator for the Series X.
But it runs PS5 games with lower resolution, lower performance and tearing...

 

[nikolino840]

No. Emulators are legal. They would only be illegal If achieved though reverse engineering of the actual original code.

But there's a buisness war between sony and Microsoft..
Like epic that went against Apple and Google knowing they were wrong but still taking a stand

 

[MrFunSocks]

So far not, it's in infancy basically to be ported like this. Even PS2 emulator, which has been on PC for a long time is still buggy on UWP....

Got nothing to do with UWP, it's that the PS2 (PCSX2) emulator has only *just* been ported to a retroarch core where it was previously only a standalone emulator.

Zero chance of RPCS3 emulation on this too.

I'd rather they focus on good new games than shitty old ones.

Really? Then why did you say this about a PS3 game......

This is my favorite Soul's game. So glad they remade it! I hope they remaster BB, not remake ofc.

Think about this - the overwhelmingly large majority of the greatest games of all time cannot be played on a PS5. The overwhelming majority of them can now be played on the Series S and X.

But there's a buisness war between sony and Microsoft..
Like epic that went against Apple and Google knowing they were wrong but still taking a stand

But MS haven't done anything wrong here, in fact the last time retroarch was attempted to be put on the microsoft store MS blocked it because they don't allow emulators. This is an in development app, and it wouldn't ever be approved. Emulators aren't illegal, as that other poster said.

 

[quickwhips]

I've been playing so many old beat em up games this week. Punisher arcade is legit along with spiderman arcade.

 

[iHaunter]

Are you saying that Classic games like God of War, Silent Hill 2, Gran Turismo 4, Metal Gear Solid 2 are shitty wtf how dare the audacity.

Compared to games now yeah. New GoW is 100x better than old GoW. GT7 will be far superior to GT4.

 

[Maddux4164]

It’s nice and all. But only the truly hardcore will install Retroarch or even know what that is. 99% of consumers have no clue what emulation even means. Sure, everyone here does on a gaming forum and YouTube gaming enthusiast. But that’s a minority. Good none the less I suppose

 

[Craig of War]

Compared to games now yeah. New GoW is 100x better than old GoW. GT7 will be far superior to GT4.

I disagree completely sure the graphics in the new games are better of course but the classic GOW and GT4 has way better gameplay that is a fact.

 

[Maddux4164]

I hope they get N64 games and Goldeneye working properly in the future, if so I might eventually buy one of these if the ability to do this with them is still available. PS2 games look like shit on modern TVs but not through emulation, having some of my favorite games from past gens from various different platforms on a single console would be pretty great. I have emulation on my Vita and it's fantastic, but of course doesn't run anything too taxing.

Your PC will run Goldeneye perfectly. As well as any other system ever made since 1979.

 

[Maddux4164]

I disagree completely sure the graphics in the new games are better of course but the classic GOW and GT4 has way better gameplay that is a fact.

Weirdly I’m more partial to GT2 and all it’s jaggy glory

 

[Craig of War]

Weirdly I’m more partial to GT2 and all it’s jaggy glory

Yeah Graphics aren't everything that why MGS 1 is still one of my favorite even though it look so bad now.

 

[Hawking Radiation]

I will straight up die laughing if retroarch adds the PCSX3 core to it because Sony will have major egg on their faces

I'm sure there will be thousands of gamers rushing out to purchase Xbox Series S/X consoles if the above happens and Sony will have to live with the regret and egg on their faces.

Its good for hardcore/enthusiast crowd but ultimately no one will care about this.

 

[lock2k]

Compared to games now yeah. New GoW is 100x better than old GoW. GT7 will be far superior to GT4.

Old GOW has titties. It wins by default