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[Maddux4164]

Yeah Graphics aren't everything that why MGS 1 is still one of my favorite even though it look so bad now.

It’s absolutely by far the best MGS imo

It looks like total shit. But that is part of its charm now

The PS1 certainly didn’t age well, being the first (one of) console to do true 3D poly’s. It shows. But man they put out some true innovative games in that era (including N64)

 

[MrFunSocks]

Weirdly I’m more partial to GT2 and all it’s jaggy glory

With emulation you can make ps2 games look pretty damn good. Native 4K internal rendering , 16x AF, 8xMSAA, etc.

 

[Maddux4164]

With emulation you can make ps2 games look pretty damn good. Native 4K internal rendering , 16x AF, 8xMSAA, etc.

Well, GT2 is a PS1 game. Only so much you can do to make them look good

 

[MrFunSocks]

Well, GT2 is a PS1 game. Only so much you can do to make them look good

Sorry PS1, but yeh, you can clean them up a *lot*. Fiddling around with DuckStation can get some amazing results.

 

[Maddux4164]

Sorry PS1, but yeh, you can clean them up a *lot*. Fiddling around with DuckStation can get some amazing results.

Maybe it’s me, but take FF8 and FF9 “remastered” for instance. Cleans up the jaggies and such. Higher res of course.

But the OG has its charm for me. I need my jaggies

 

[Cato]

As far as I remember PS3 has compatibility with PS2 simply because it has some cores or PS2 microchip inside. It was not a software emulation at all.

The first two PS3 models, CECHAxx / CECHBxx had basically PS2 hw built in, EE and all. They had full HW compatibility with PS2 and also a PS1 emulator.
Later models switched to have a PS2 emulator built in, which in even later models was disabled (but it can be re-enabled again via CFW or HEN)

Today though every single PS3 can play PS2 games. But it differs in how much effort is required to get it running.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Maybe it’s me, but take FF8 and FF9 “remastered” for instance. Cleans up the jaggies and such. Higher res of course.

But the OG has its charm for me. I need my jaggies

Yeah I'm the same because I grew up playing those games and I want them to look how I remember them. I put a CRT filter over the top of most of the games that I used to play on a CRT, looks picture perfect.

When I hit PS2/GC/Wii games though, I'll up the resolution and effects because some of them just look amazing in even 1080p.

 

[Blond]

I'm sure there will be thousands of gamers rushing out to purchase Xbox Series S/X consoles if the above happens and Sony will have to live with the regret and egg on their faces.

Its good for hardcore/enthusiast crowd but ultimately no one will care about this.

It’s more about their screeching that “it’s hard to emulate hurrdurr” when a small team of dedicated home-brewers have been able to figure out what they couldn’t.

 

[ReBurn]

There is probably never going to be "stable version" retro arch is that sort of live software, that due to being open source with many contributors is going to be constatnly evolving. There is always a way how to do it more efficietnly and now when you have single platform, you can do way more with it's CPU feature set and stuff like that. Not sure how much access you have to CPU-low level function in UWP mode tho.

Most software projects keep moving and evolving but open source projects do have stable releases. Stable doesn't mean finished and complete. It just means a snapshot is adequately tested and is ready for general release.

 

[Gate Locker]

Try emulating ps2 or gamecube games on a $300 pc....

Even cheaper PCs can emulate them.

 

[German Hops]

It feels like I'm in bizarro world..

 

[Maddux4164]

Even cheaper PCs can emulate them.

Facts

 

[Kumomeme]

i can see in long term ahead, even when the console not sold anywhere, or even 10 years in future, this console could be ideal emulation device by homebrew community out there.

 

[PSYGN]

Can someone try Stuntman and Frequency/Amplitude on it? Those were the first games I tried on my PC 2 years ago and Stuntman was laggy and Frequency/Amplitude was out sync with the music/button press making it near impossible to play.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

When your killer app is that you can play 20 year old games lol

I think its neat but completely unpractical. An old laptop with an i5 can emulate ps2 games.

 

[vito_don_corleone_]

Why there is so much noise about old games on GAF?
Think about it, apparently, there are 2.5M PS5s sold at launch. How many of those guys who pre-ordered it was thinking: oh, such a shame I cannot play Metal Gear Solid 4 on it!

Nostalgia is a cool thing but I never go back to the old games. Even if you have a beefy PC and you boot up some old game in 4K with 160FPS it still the same game which perhaps used to look good but...

 

[Thirty7ven]

Unless we are talking PS3 it doesn’t matter because potatoes have been emulating PS2 for a really long time.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

Sony didn't get that leverage by doing nothing the past few years. They tried things. Some worked and some didn't work out. I was just speculating that maybe Microsoft was looking at the past and trying to figure out things that they need to do in order to establish that. We know why Sony isn't focusing on it now but that isn't relevant to what they tried in the past.

None of the leverage they got has anything to do with backwards compatibility. It is all about the games. They produced a lot of games with high scores or like in the last year they produce GOTY after GOTY. While not every PS1 game became iconic, PS2 had a lot of iconic games that now considered legendary. Anecdotally I don't remember people playing PS1 games on PS2.

When MS' GamePass machine will start producing content, producing GOTYs - like Sony do - only then MS will start gaining leverage. Xbox One generation partially - not sure if fully - destroyed Xbox chances to gain foothold in Europe. In Japan Xbox as a brand has no chance to succeed as is so MS is trying to get there from another angle - using mobile devices.

 

[HoodWinked]

It's pretty diabolical because the xbox back catalog is unexceptional so the loss incurred is so much less compared to Sony or Nintendo.

It's kind of always like that when it comes to homebrew they are like it's for devs when it's primarily for piracy.

Also if Sony goes with the cease and desist it's a losing PR move and only bring further attention to the feature.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Sony is losing to themselves.
Had they added backwards compatibility they would have instantly won.

Microsoft is making all the right decisions.

You are a comedian.

 

[Bergoglio]

You are a comedian.

You're in the wrong thread.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

You're in the wrong thread.

Nah, it's entertaining here.

 

[Keihart]

He called MGS2 good on the Xbox pad because it maps one to one? HOW?! it's the dude high or what? You don't have analog face buttons on any controller besides DS2 and 3 to map MGS2 and 3 one to one.
I would love a modern PS2 machine but emulating PS2 games it's always kind of trash with textures going black or doing weird shit unless you spend some considerable time tweaking and patching.

 

[v_iHuGi]

Easy to set up? Really interested in knowing if this is easy to use & how can I install it.

Will buy a SS ASAP

 

[Keihart]

Xenosaga 3 is $300, for some games it ain't practical

I mean, if you are going to be using roms anyway, you might as well invest in a PS2 with the Hard Drive mod and avoid all the glitches and artifacts from emulation

 

[Marcus Aurelius]

It’s absolutely by far the best MGS imo

It looks like total shit. But that is part of its charm now

The PS1 certainly didn’t age well, being the first (one of) console to do true 3D poly’s. It shows. But man they put out some true innovative games in that era (including N64)

MGS1 still looks great imo. The low poly count is extremely charming and gives some power to the user to use his fantasy.

 

[daninthemix]

Sony shot themselves in the foot. I don't know about you but I'm an expert on Japanese honor and I can tell you the lack of B/C over there will not stand.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

I mean, if you are going to be using roms anyway, you might as well invest in a PS2 with the Hard Drive mod and avoid all the glitches and artifacts from emulation

This ignores the advantages of emulation, like high resolution multipliers so the games don't look so awful outside CRT TVs, or having everything all in one box.

I'm not sure why some are trying to downplay backwards compatibility when it's such a popular and sought after feature by the hardcore and casuals alike.

 

[vito_don_corleone_]

It's pretty diabolical because the xbox back catalog is unexceptional so the loss incurred is so much less compared to Sony or Nintendo.

It's kind of always like that when it comes to homebrew they are like it's for devs when it's primarily for piracy.

Also if Sony goes with the cease and desist it's a losing PR move and only bring further attention to the feature.

And yet PlayStation and Nintendo outsell Xbox every single generation.
It's big noise over some small irrelevant feature. There is far less people actually interested in playing old games than you think...

Data questions popularity of Xbox backwards compatibility - MCV/DEVELOP

Backwards compatibility has always been a headline winner, but the extent to which it is actually used has always been a point of contention. - MCV/DEVELOP

www.mcvuk.com

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Even cheaper PCs can emulate them.

I got a PC for around $270. It plays some Gamecube/Wii games at 25-30 FPS. PS2 is near unplayable.

 

[KungFucius]

How long can we expect this to last before Sony or Nintendo do soemthing

What would they do? Why would they target MS when these emulators can run on any computer? Because it is a console? So MS is not supposed to let people run their own code because that means they could run emulators for consoles that are no longer manufactured? OK. That will sure make the small amount of people who are running these things buy Sony and Nintendo systems to get these games.

 

[lock2k]

What would they do? Why would they target MS when these emulators can run on any computer? Because it is a console? So MS is not supposed to let people run their own code because that means they could run emulators for consoles that are no longer manufactured? OK. That will sure make the small amount of people who are running these things buy Sony and Nintendo systems to get these games.

Yeah, exactly. Let's not forget that Retroarch was already available for a long time on Xbox One as well.

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

And yet PlayStation and Nintendo outsell Xbox every single generation.
It's big noise over some small irrelevant feature. There is far less people actually interested in playing old games than you think...

Xbox One Backwards Compatibility Is Super Popular, Reaches New Milestone

Here's how many hours users have spent playing older games on Xbox One.

www.gamespot.com

Over 50% of the Xbox One install base had used BC at least once by 2018, and over 1 billion hours of gameplay of old games had been recorded then. That's pretty popular.

Oh and that's just old Xbox games, you can now throw Sony, Nintendo and Sega consoles into that mix.

It may not appeal to you, but it does to many others.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Why there is so much noise about old games on GAF?

It’s, uh, a video games forum?
Do you think movie forums only discuss movies made after 2010 and scoff at people who love movies from the 50s?


So people are actually asking “why bother with emulation when you can get an old PS2 with HDD”.
Yeah. Good luck making it look remotely acceptable on your 4K TV.
Console tribalism is cancer.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Unless we are talking PS3 it doesn’t matter because potatoes have been emulating PS2 for a really long time.

Yet the PS5 can’t.

 

[Teslerum]

I would love a modern PS2 machine but emulating PS2 games it's always kind of trash with textures going black or doing weird shit unless you spend some considerable time tweaking and patching.

Can't say I agree. In my experience PS2 games benefit massively from higher resolution/downsampling among all the other goodies emulation offers. There's also PCSX2's on the fly modding system (on PC) which is actually quite ingenious, but sadly only mostly taken advantage of by the Persona modding community so far. I mean I get where you are coming from (Accurate PS2 emulation being a pipe-dream for most systems due to hardware differences), but there are certainly advantages.

Also, I haven't spent really spent any time recently applying tweaks or patches. With the GameDB taking shape/removing any need to change EE/IOP settings and even game stopper bugs (Like for example Xenosaga infamously calling the exit function when the save pictures too big) being taken care of internally it's become a take it or leave it situation. In 90% of all cases the only thing you can do now is adjust upscaling hacks according to the PCSX2 wiki, otherwise there's just no solution yet. Even the plugin system is now nearly a thing of the past.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Yet the PS5 can’t.

Zero fucks given considering the games that marked the generation are mostly either available as ports, remasters or remakes. The emulator will run well on your run of the mill pc/laptop, if you’re that bothered.

Again, if it’s not PS3, then it’s just another side note. Great for the minuscule and niche market that exists for this, they now have another option.

I would be excited if it was working on my phone though. Still some turn based games from PS2 era that I would love to play on the go.

 

[lock2k]

Why there is so much noise about old games on GAF?
Think about it, apparently, there are 2.5M PS5s sold at launch. How many of those guys who pre-ordered it was thinking: oh, such a shame I cannot play Metal Gear Solid 4 on it!

Nostalgia is a cool thing but I never go back to the old games. Even if you have a beefy PC and you boot up some old game in 4K with 160FPS it still the same game which perhaps used to look good but...

Has a nickname referencing a 1972 movie character.

Complains about nostalgia and old games.

Makes a lot of sense, yeah.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I mean, if you are going to be using roms anyway, you might as well invest in a PS2 with the Hard Drive mod and avoid all the glitches and artifacts from emulation

I actually did emulate Xenosaga 3 just a few months ago and with some tweaking it all works.

 

[brownfedora]

Desperation setting in. Won’t be long until we get to capitulation. Probably around March-April when people realize that there aren’t going to be major new first-party games until 2022.

 

[YCoCg]

How is it possible that we have a new console being able to emulate a fuck load of other consoles with ease and letting the user do so, and yet it's spun as negative news by some people on this forum?

 

[sainraja]

None of the leverage they got has anything to do with backwards compatibility. It is all about the games. They produced a lot of games with high scores or like in the last year they produce GOTY after GOTY. While not every PS1 game became iconic, PS2 had a lot of iconic games that now considered legendary. Anecdotally I don't remember people playing PS1 games on PS2.

When MS' GamePass machine will start producing content, producing GOTYs - like Sony do - only then MS will start gaining leverage. Xbox One generation partially - not sure if fully - destroyed Xbox chances to gain foothold in Europe. In Japan Xbox as a brand has no chance to succeed as is so MS is trying to get there from another angle - using mobile devices.

There can be more than one factor that leads to a company establishing a solid reputation. You want to ignore that that's fine by me. Going from PS1 → PS2 is when Sony started focusing on having their own first party studios. PS1's strength initially was that they were able to bring third-party support over from Nintendo given how strict Nintendo was at the time with publishing on their platform and cost. Sony stated PS2 would have backwards compatibility and I am sure people used it around launch time frame. We know now based on Sony's statements that it was never a popular feature (unfortunately.)

 

[iHaunter]

I disagree completely sure the graphics in the new games are better of course but the classic GOW and GT4 has way better gameplay that is a fact.

I disagree. I like new GoW gameplay far more than GoW 1-3. And you don't even know what the gameplay for GT7 is.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

There can be more than one factor that leads to a company establishing a solid reputation. You want to ignore that that's fine by me.

I ignore backwards compatibility because historically - I assume that but also 70-80% sure - on consoles it has been irrelevant. In fact that concept existed on PC for centuries, but on consoles it was a relatively new concept that did not gain the foothold until Xbox started doing that (like online play that did not really exist until Xbox Live. It existed in some form, but in general the concept existed mainly on PC with their LAN parties)

Going from PS1 → PS2 is when Sony started focusing on having their own first party studios. PS1's strength initially was that they were able to bring third-party support over from Nintendo given how strict Nintendo was at the time with publishing on their platform and cost.

True. PS1 moneyhatted a lot at that time and also they introduced cheap CD disks for games. Actually they made the correct bets all the time - CD -> DVD -> BluRay. Guess it helps if you a media company and set the standards anyway.

Sony stated PS2 would have backwards compatibility and I am sure people used it around launch time frame. We know now based on Sony's statements that it was never a popular feature (unfortunately.)

Anecdotally I a lot of people bought PS2 due to it being DVD player.

 

[sainraja]

I ignore backwards compatibility because historically - I assume that but also 70-80% sure - on consoles it has been irrelevant. In fact that concept existed on PC for centuries, but on consoles it was a relatively new concept that did not gain the foothold until Xbox started doing that (like online play that did not really exist until Xbox Live. It existed in some form, but in general the concept existed mainly on PC with their LAN parties)


True. PS1 moneyhatted a lot at that time and also they introduced cheap CD disks for games. Actually they made the correct bets all the time - CD -> DVD -> BluRay. Guess it helps if you a media company and set the standards anyway.


Anecdotally I a lot of people bought PS2 due to it being DVD player.

I am not arguing that backwards compatibility in terms of utilization is a huge feature. If it was, Sony would have stuck to it and we'd have it on the PS4/5 (it also wouldn't have been the feature Sony removed on the PS3 in later revisions.) So that isn't my argument. I am saying that it likely helped Sony establish a foothold by gaining trust during that time. They made really good decisions and now they are strong due to their investment in a content portfolio. Microsoft has also started to do the same (and since they can afford it, they've been more aggressive e.g. zenimax.)

BTW, from what I've read, during the PS1 era, Sony didn't really have to "moneyhat" developers. It was just cheaper for them to develop on the PS1 and the licensing costs were better on the Sony side which you can argue is using money as a leverage but it isn't really what we all call "moneyhat" now.

 

[SaturnSaturn]

I got a PC for around $270. It plays some Gamecube/Wii games at 25-30 FPS. PS2 is near unplayable.

pcsx2 was at 15-20 fps until i upgraded to a ryzen build. So yeah no way you can emulate ps2 under 300 bucks unless you buy used parts and get lucky

 

[01011001]

I disagree. I like new GoW gameplay far more than GoW 1-3. And you don't even know what the gameplay for GT7 is.

new GoW has a fighting system that is somehow even more shallow than GoW1-3 but also lacks 99% of the spectacle of those games.

So for me GoW4 was a huge downgrade in many ways and very obviously designed to lure in the casual crowd that are used to over the shoulder shooters.

I liked some of the zelda like puzzle elements in GoW4 but everything else is just way worse than the old ones, especially GoW2, which is still the best IMO

 

[Keihart]

new GoW has a fighting system that is somehow even more shallow than GoW1-3 but also lacks 99% of the spectacle of those games.

So for me GoW4 was a huge downgrade in many ways and very obviously designed to lure in the casual crowd that are used to over the shoulder shooters.

I liked some of the zelda like puzzle elements in GoW4 but everything else is just way worse than the old ones, especially GoW2, which is still the best IMO

It isn't, the only defense you need in 3 it's to parry lmao. GoW was always kind of a shallow action game emulating the basics of DMC, at least now the game has a unique fighting system.

 

[FStubbs]

The Series S is suddenly appealing to me as an emulation box.

 

[MagnesG]

Even cheaper PCs can emulate them.

BS unless you want trash performance.