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Pope had secret meeting with Kim Davis, Kentucky County Clerk
- Thread starter Dalek
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NoblesseOblige
Banned
No, but many still respect him.
The Albatross
Member
Francis openly shit on the constitution in front of congress when he condemned gun ownership, gun production, and gun sales, three things that the Supreme Court has general ruled are protected by the 2nd Amendment of the constitution.
Depends on the denomination. Many Evangelical Christian groups were strictly anti-Catholic and strongly anti-Pope, but then many mainstream Protestants consider the Church misled and simply wrong on doctrine, but think that they're still working towards the same goal and generally good. No other denominations, though, respect his authority on Christian doctrine, that's only the Catholic church (and, well, there is some influence in Eastern orthodox circles, but that's just more from a point of view of influence, not authority). He still typically garners respect from non-Catholic Christians today, though, as the head of the largest Christian denomination in the world. Prior to the 1980s, the Pope probably received more ire from non-Catholics than respect, especially in the United States, as the Church was largely condemned by evangelical Christian groups.
Veritigo_X
Member
Not at all. Usually there is a fair amount of disdain for him from non-Catholics.
infiniteloop
Member
People who bought into the PR spin.
DoktorEvil
Banned
If JP 2 could forgive the dude that nearly assassinated him, yeah The Pope in general is about caring for all people.
Some Christian sects denounce the Pope in general. He doesn't represent all of Christian ideology. He's mainly a Catholic figurehead.
Deified Data
Banned
He's an opponent of gay marriage and considers it intrinsically immoral. The fact that he loves gay people regardless just means he follows Christian dogma in that regard (hate the sin, not the sinner). He very much considers homosexuality a threat to conventional families and was pretty forthright about it as recently as his trip to the states. He's undeniably on Davis's side here.
Vyse The Legend
Member
In what world would a meeting with the Pope not end with him blessing you with kind words?
People are reading into this wayyyyyyy too much.
Extra Sauce
Member
I imagine his popeularity will decrease.
I don't understand the Kevin Eubanks reference.
birthday-suit
Banned
Its stupid that you expect perfect people, whose beliefs line up exactly with yours.
Especially considering his role.
popeularity. A late night talk show joke.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Indeed. Pope needs to be The Pope at the end of the day. He's still more progressive than any other Pope to date. But let's not feign surprise.
Why is it warranted to call a Pope "progressive"—in respect to Catholicism, not politics—, when caring for the poor and needy and rejecting financial wealth is among the top 3 messages of the New Testament. It's literally one of the most conservative Christian ideas. Maybe people are so used to the fact that political conservatives, especially in America, just don't give a fuck about Christian doctrine when it comes to economics and wealth equality, despite proudly professing their Christianity.
The Pope can be considered progressive in a political/economic sense, but in terms of his world view, he is staunchly conservative. That includes the good things, but also the bad things. Despite what some media reports occasionally suggest, he believes in all the nonsense that Catholicism teaches: sin, hell, damnation for non-believers, the devil and exorcism, that zygotes have soul, that contraception and sex for fun is bad, and that same-sex relationships are a sin.
The Pope can be considered progressive in a political/economic sense, but in terms of his world view, he is staunchly conservative. That includes the good things, but also the bad things. Despite what some media reports occasionally suggest, he believes in all the nonsense that Catholicism teaches: sin, hell, damnation for non-believers, the devil and exorcism, that zygotes have soul, that contraception and sex for fun is bad, and that same-sex relationships are a sin.
metalslimer
Member
Catholic church still supporting bigotry isn't a big surprise. Doesn't change the fact that this has been a relatively progressive pope but if you were looking to validate your religion with this pope then it seems foolhardy to expect him to change that much
Sorry Catholics I don't think this will change for a long time until the church conveniently decides to forget all of this
Sorry Catholics I don't think this will change for a long time until the church conveniently decides to forget all of this
It was a bad joke in the same vein that Jay Leno would make, but the Eubanks photo would make more sense if somebody else quoted them and responded with that.
PeskyToaster
Member
I remember when popes were the ones doing the imprisoning. Probably has a bit of a complex over how much power his office used to have.
I think this was a carefully planned stunt. I think they more or less tricked the Pope into meeting her (possibly in a larger group), and I don't think the Pope intended to make any political statement of support. Kim Davis and her handlers are liars and I'm not going to trust their self serving statement of what happened in a secret meeting (which they went immediately public about).
DoktorEvil
Banned
Except she's not a Catholic? What bridge would he be burning?
At the end of the day he is still pope. Not really a surprise.
People need to get their expectations in check though. For a millennia old institutions to embrace modern morals is a long process. It took them hundreds of years to admit the atrocities of the Inquisition, but eventually it will come. Maybe not this pope though.
People need to get their expectations in check though. For a millennia old institutions to embrace modern morals is a long process. It took them hundreds of years to admit the atrocities of the Inquisition, but eventually it will come. Maybe not this pope though.
BronsonLee
Member
He probably told her to park his car
bonesmccoy
Banned
This completely blown out of proportion. The Pope, like any major leader, meets a lot of people. Progressives saying this means the Pope is cool with every retrograde facet of the antiSSM movement is no different than conservatives claiming he supports every facet of communism because he visited Cuba and met the Castros.
Pretty sneaky Pope.
Nah really though who cares, dude also met with a bunch of inmates at a prison and gave out rosaries and said almost the exact same things to them as he did to Davis.
Pope is still dope even if he isn't 100% in alignment with some progressive ideal. Pope don't care about your progressive ideals.
Nah really though who cares, dude also met with a bunch of inmates at a prison and gave out rosaries and said almost the exact same things to them as he did to Davis.
Pope is still dope even if he isn't 100% in alignment with some progressive ideal. Pope don't care about your progressive ideals.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
It's not the Anti-SSM stance that bothers me. It's the "fuck the law" stance. Remember she got sent to jail for not following a court order.
Probably something about being a conscientious objector. His 'stay strong' and comment about objecting (made earlier last week) has me thinking it was probably a very short meeting and expressed to her the equivalent of something like 'keep the faith'.
Edit: also I do think it's important for people to realize you don't have to be 100% on the same page to have to like someone. Some of you guys must have very few friends.
I thought this was so unlikely that when her lawyers bragged about it yesterday I was mocking it as an obvious lie. Go figure.
I still like the Pope. The common thread for most of the positions he takes that I like and agree with is compassion. Compassion and caring about other human beings despite the differences between us. It sounds schmaltzy to type it out like that, because it's so easy to say and so impossible to live up to. But he tries, and I admire that.
And I think this is another instance of compassion. I strongly disagree with Davis, and the fact that she's some kind of conservative celebrity is irritating. But she's still a human being underneath the crappy outlook and behavior, and it can't be easy to have half the country vilifying you as the worst person ever, even with GOP fundamentalists on your side and telling you how great you are.
The Pope going around telling people that they are people and hugging them seems ok to me.
I still like the Pope. The common thread for most of the positions he takes that I like and agree with is compassion. Compassion and caring about other human beings despite the differences between us. It sounds schmaltzy to type it out like that, because it's so easy to say and so impossible to live up to. But he tries, and I admire that.
And I think this is another instance of compassion. I strongly disagree with Davis, and the fact that she's some kind of conservative celebrity is irritating. But she's still a human being underneath the crappy outlook and behavior, and it can't be easy to have half the country vilifying you as the worst person ever, even with GOP fundamentalists on your side and telling you how great you are.
The Pope going around telling people that they are people and hugging them seems ok to me.
The spin is real.
Do you guys really think that the vatican didn't know what was going on with Kim Davis?
And do you not see the difference between poor and isolated dictatorships full of normal people on the one hand, and a woman who is literally not known for anything else but her bigotry regarding gay people? There is no other reason to visit an otherwise free and normal person, who is receiving a lot of support and money in her own community of bigots, other than to show that you support her "efforts" in the one thing she is known for?
Am I the only one skeptical about this report?
Basically from the article OP posted, Kim Davis and her lawyer are saying "yeah the pop totally supported me and yadayadayada."
But the guy represented the Pope only said that a meeting took place and nothing else.
For all we know the Davises could just be lying about what really happened (idk why they would, it would be a bad move). For all we know The Pope could have disapproved of what she was doing.
Idk, it just sounds a bit weird to me.
Basically from the article OP posted, Kim Davis and her lawyer are saying "yeah the pop totally supported me and yadayadayada."
But the guy represented the Pope only said that a meeting took place and nothing else.
For all we know the Davises could just be lying about what really happened (idk why they would, it would be a bad move). For all we know The Pope could have disapproved of what she was doing.
Idk, it just sounds a bit weird to me.
It's verified in the Op by the Vatican...
Netherscourge
Banned
Who, may I ask, in Washington, DC allowed this to happen?
I can only imagine the Pope himself requested this...
So, who in DC arranged this and why did they keep it such a secret?
I know the Pope and Kim would keep it a secret as long as Frances was here, so as to not rally demonstrators against him and cause a ruckus.
But people in DC would have had to arrange this meeting for it to happen. I would like to know WHO.
I can only imagine the Pope himself requested this...
So, who in DC arranged this and why did they keep it such a secret?
I know the Pope and Kim would keep it a secret as long as Frances was here, so as to not rally demonstrators against him and cause a ruckus.
But people in DC would have had to arrange this meeting for it to happen. I would like to know WHO.
It's an old thing, from what exact threads I can't remember. Usually that was accompanied by "Oh! Man, Jay!"
Future PhaZe
Member
people still treating the papacy as some kind of authority in 2015 is mildly amusing i guess
Astral Dog
Member
Kim Davis modern Jesus Christ confirmed,
BronsonLee
Member
Jesus Christ would've used Eye of the Tiger too. Survivor be damned!
stufte
Member
People still acting like the pope doesn't have massive influence in the world is also mildly amusing.
Spider from Mars
tap that thorax
The Pope is not a leftist, liberal or progressive activist. He is the leader of a church. So left of center people shouldn't act surprised when he takes a stance they don't agree on.
AnathemicOne
Banned
1 step foward, 3 steps back. God damnit Pope.
Miles Quaritch
Member
The people who bought into the PR.
Mammoth Jones
Member
I mean he's still the Pope. He still supports "traditional" marriage.
With that said I think he's a bit of a coward ideologically for secretly meeting with her.
If that's what you believe and you're the Pope own it. Don't just flaunt those ideals that you think will be happily received while scurrying in secret. That's just shady.
If the Church wants to stray into policy and politics they should pay taxes. If not they should stay in their lane.
With that said I think he's a bit of a coward ideologically for secretly meeting with her.
If that's what you believe and you're the Pope own it. Don't just flaunt those ideals that you think will be happily received while scurrying in secret. That's just shady.
If the Church wants to stray into policy and politics they should pay taxes. If not they should stay in their lane.
The article says they didn't want the meeting to be the highlight of the trip.
Astral Dog
Member
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