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Pope said she said, Pope did not discuss with Kim Davis anything according to Vatican

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Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/10/02/445236066/vatican-details-pope-s-meeting-with-kentucky-clerk-kim-davis

Responding to a flood of interest in the surprise revelation that Pope Francis met with controversial county clerk Kim Davis, the Vatican says the event shouldn't be seen as an endorsement of all of Davis' views. Davis has refused to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples in Rowan County, Ky.

Davis was one of "several dozen" people the pope met at the end of his visit to Washington, D.C., the Vatican says.

News of the private meeting surfaced days after Francis and Davis met at the Vatican embassy, opening a new prism through which to view a papal visit that had focused on issues such as climate change and immigration.

After the meeting, Davis told ABC News, "Just knowing the pope is on track with what we're doing, and agreeing, you know, kind of validates everything."

Acknowledging that the meeting has "continued to provoke comments and discussion," Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi addressed the topic Friday, expanding on his earlier refusal to provide details.

From Rome, NPR's Sylvia Poggioli reports:

"After issuing a tight-lipped statement that did not deny the Davis-Pope meeting took place, the Holy See spokesman today issued a statement saying several dozen persons had been invited to the Vatican embassy last week to greet the pope as he prepared to leave for New York.

"The pope, the statement added, did not enter into the details of the situation of Mrs. Davis, and his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects.

"When news of the meeting broke after the Pope's return to Rome, it had the appearance of having been furtive and contrasted with Francis' open and transparent style. It also cast a shadow over the pope's overwhelmingly successful visit to the United States."

Sylvia adds that Father Thomas Rosica, English language assistant at the Holy See Press Office, says that Pope Francis may not have understood "the impact" a visit with Davis might have in the U.S.; Rosica also says the group that included Davis was selected by the nunciature, the Vatican's diplomatic office in D.C.

On Wednesday, Davis and her legal team at the Liberty Counsel said that the meeting had been brief, and that the pope had thanked Davis for her courage and told her, "Stay strong."

News of the meeting first emerged in the conservative magazine Inside the Vatican, which said it was "arguably, the most significant meeting, symbolically, of the entire trip."

Davis, who is an an Apostolic Christian, said the pope gave her and her husband two rosaries, which they would give to Davis' parents, who are Catholic.

Here's Lombardi's full statement, which was released in both English and Italian:

"The brief meeting between Mrs. Kim Davis and Pope Francis at the Apostolic Nunciature in Washington, DC has continued to provoke comments and discussion. In order to contribute to an objective understanding of what transpired I am able to clarify the following points:

"Pope Francis met with several dozen persons who had been invited by the Nunciature to greet him as he prepared to leave Washington for New York City. Such brief greetings occur on all papal visits and are due to the Pope's characteristic kindness and availability. The only real audience granted by the Pope at the Nunciature was with one of his former students and his family.

"The Pope did not enter into the details of the situation of Mrs. Davis and his meeting with her should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects."
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B

bangbang i'm a timpani

Banned
so basically a bigot was able to meet with one of the most difficult to meet people on the planet and they're now saying they didn't understand what she was about? that fact she even got the meeting in the first place is bafflng.
 
G

GavinGT

Banned
If he said anything to her, I doubt she understood what he was saying. She probably just assumed he was thanking her for her bravery or some such shit.
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
Also, you could see this shit coming a mile away the second her and her lawyer basically ran out into a freeway screaming that The Pope really really liked them and wanted to take them to prom
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
bangbang i'm a timpani said:
so basically a bigot was able to meet with one of the most difficult to meet people on the planet and they're now saying they didn't understand what she was about? that fact she even got the meeting in the first place is bafflng.
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It was probably arranged by local conservative bishop(s) who put her name in for the hay they could make locally out of it.

It would not surprise me if, in fact, the Pope didn't really know much about her at all.

(And I'm not a 'cool Pope Francis' person, so I'm not trying to defend any kind of image - his positions are still, fundamentally, the same as ever wrt Catholic teaching. Just with a softer veneer at times.)
 
S

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
The Vatican essentially coming out and saying "Naw, fuck Kim Davis's views" is a surprisingly frank endorsement for the things she stands against.

bangbang i'm a timpani said:
so basically a bigot was able to meet with one of the most difficult to meet people on the planet and they're now saying they didn't understand what she was about? that fact she even got the meeting in the first place is bafflng.
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She was selected by a pool of local church officials. Not surprising they'd seize an opportunity for the big boss to help push their local agenda. A thorough debriefing and debate would only make his approval uncertain, so we can skip that bit.
 
B

BronsonLee

Member
GavinGT said:
Why would she want to meet the pope when she's not even Catholic?
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To do exactly what she seems to have done, trump up the meeting and use it as support/attention for herself.

Unfortunately she seemed to forget that her shit would cast a shadow over the Pope's US visit, which basically prompted them to go 'No, fuck you'
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Shig said:
The Vatican essentially coming out and saying "Naw, fuck Kim Davis' views" is a surprisingly frank endorsement for the things she stands against.
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They're not remotely saying that.

Fundamentally they don't agree with gay marriage and would agree with the idea conscientious objection against it (though not necessarily conscientious exemption from duties...). They probably just don't necessarily view Kim Davis as the best poster child for these issues - because, well, she's not a particularly good one.
 
A

Atraveller

Banned
gofreak said:
It was probably arranged by local conservative bishop(s) who put her name in for the hay they could make locally out of it.

It would not surprise me if, in fact, the Pope didn't really know much about her at all.
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I seriously doubt it, and none of the Vatican people that accompanied him told him about her prior to the meeting?
 
S

Skellig Gra

Member
All this seems like a publicity stunt on Davis' part. She's not even Catholic so why would she meet with the pope? And secondly, the pope doesn't even really speak English so unless she speaks Italian or Spanish what kind of deep conversation could they have had. He probably said something like "God loves you even if the world seems against you" and that's it.
 
M

mcrommert

Banned
gofreak said:
It was probably arranged by local conservative bishop(s) who put her name in for the hay they could make locally out of it.

It would not surprise me if, in fact, the Pope didn't really know much about her at all.

(And I'm not a 'cool Pope Francis' person, so I'm not trying to defend any kind of image - his positions are still, fundamentally, the same as ever wrt Catholic teaching. Just with a softer veneer at times.)
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He is often what is known in the church as more progressive...but that is still anti-gay marriage, anti female priests, anti abortion, anti death penalty...and those things aren't changing
 
M

meltingparappa

Member
"All of Davis's views."

I'm sure they talked about last season's Celebrity Apprentice or whatever, instead of... you know, THAT ONE VIEW.
 
A

antonz

Member
Veritigo_X said:
Why would Kim Davis and her lawyers lie? Sorry Pope, I'm siding with Kim Davis on this one.
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She was almost assuredly invited by US Officials. She basically got the standard greeting. Pope says hi bless you yada yada and gives you a rosary as a memento.

.
Davis and attorney see an opportunity to go public and try to use it as a way to vindicate her actions
 
V

Veritigo_X

Member
Atraveller said:
I seriously doubt it, and none of the Vatican people that accompanied him told him about her prior to the meeting?
Click to expand...

The Pope meets a shit ton of people during visits, the Vatican doesn't arrange them. It sounds like 12 people, including Kim Davis, went to the embassy to meet the Pope for the standard meet and greet he did throughout his visit. It wasn't a one on one meeting.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
antonz said:
She was almost assuredly invited by US Officials. She basically got the standard greeting. Pope says hi bless you yada yada and gives you a rosary as a memento.

.
Davis and attorney see an opportunity to go public and try to use it as a way to vindicate her actions
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Did you read the article? She was invited by the nunciature
 
M

MJPIA

Member
I feel like the pope probably had no idea who she was and just gave her one of those generic blessings and since no one other than the people who were in the room knows what exactly was said all we really know is the pope met her and it ended becoming far bigger than it really is.

It's not really my business and just me poking my nose into things as usual but I am very curious as to who else was on that list of people invited by the ambassador alongside Kim Davis.
 
M

mcrommert

Banned
balladofwindfishes said:
anti-death penalty is progressive
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Yeah if you believe everything as US/West political division centric...Catholic Church and her popes have been speaking against the death penalty since the 19th century. Its really nothing new. Respect for life from the moment of conception to natural end involves this so its not surprising.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Atraveller said:
I seriously doubt it, and none of the Vatican people that accompanied him told him about her prior to the meeting?
Click to expand...

It's possible he did know her story in the large. But he doesn't watch television, apparently. He probably has a schedule of reading material and activity that might not keep him entirely attuned to what's happening in the US.

And I imagine people get pushed in front of him for a handshake all the time by local hosts. And they may have given him a very summary briefing that left out a lot of details that might not flatter her.

Of course, sure, it's possible he knew all about her, and is just backtracking now because of the controversy. Or maybe he knew very little about her, found out latterly about the 'complications' of her position and decided to hedge on any perceived support.
 
A

Atraveller

Banned
Veritigo_X said:
The Pope meets a shit ton of people during visits, the Vatican doesn't arrange them. It sounds like 12 people, including Kim Davis, went to the embassy to meet the Pope for the standard meet and greet he did throughout his visit. It wasn't a one on one meeting.
Click to expand...

Alucrid said:
Did you read the article? She was invited by the nunciature
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Vatican fucked up. And head of a religion doesn't read about religion related news? Not likely.
 
P

Pai Pai Master

Banned
Atraveller said:
Vatican fucked up. And head of a religion doesn't read about religion related news? Not likely.
Click to expand...

US politics especially something as stupid as this Kim Davis thing, aren't exactly the center of his world

She's not even Catholic why would the Vatican even care about her?
 
S

SteveMeister

Hang out with Steve.
This is pretty much what I had assumed -- that Davis was one of many people who got to very briefly meet the pope at one gathering, not that it was a private, secret meeting just for her.
 
S

SliceSabre

Banned
I don't believe the Pope knew who the hell she was and this was simply set up by the people around him. I believe highly conservative people around him set him up.

Not like the Pope goes deeply over the list of people he meets, somebody does that vetting for him just like the leaders of countries. Kim Davis and her slimy lawyers made this sound like a bigger meeting than it actually was.
 
Trojita

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/world/europe/pope-francis-kim-davis-meeting.html

At the Vatican on Friday, a spokesman, the Rev. Thomas Rosica, said the invitation had been extended by the office of Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, the nuncio in Washington, not from Rome.

“Who brought her in? The nuncio,” said Father Rosica, who is working with the Vatican’s media office in advance of a major meeting of bishops that begins this weekend. “The Nunciature was able to bring in donors, benefactors.”

Father Rosica said of the controversy: “I would simply say: Her case is a very complex case. It’s got all kinds of intricacies. Was there an opportunity to brief the pope on this beforehand? I don’t think so. A list is given — these are the people you are going to meet.”

Mr. Staver, for his part, said he had been briefly introduced to Archbishop Viganò in April, when he spoke at a large rally in Washington against same-sex marriage, before the Supreme Court ruled on the issue.

The Rev. James Martin, editor at large of the Jesuit magazine America, had cautioned in an article this week, that the pope meets many well-wishers on his trips, and that news of the meeting with Ms. Davis had been manipulated.

“I was very disappointed to see the pope having been used that way, and that his willingness to be friendly to someone was turned against him,” Father Martin wrote. “What may originally have prevented them from issuing a statement was the desire not to give this story too much air. But what they eventually came to realize was that they needed to correct some gross misrepresentations of what had happened. It shows that Pope Francis met with many people on the trip, and that she was simply another person who he tried to be kind to.””
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M

MJPIA

Member
This ride never ends.

http://ksnt.com/2015/10/02/kim-davis-lawyer-disputes-vatican-description-of-meeting/
Kim Davis’ attorney is disputing the Vatican’s description and interpretation of her Sept. 24 meeting with Pope Francis
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He says Vatican personnel initiated contact with Davis’ camp on Sept. 14 saying the pope wanted to meet her. He says Vatican security picked up her and her husband up from their Washington hotel and brought her to the Vatican embassy. He says Vatican officials told her to change her hairstyle so she wouldn’t be recognized since they wanted the encounter kept secret.
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Staver disputed a Vatican spokesman’s claims that the pope only met with Davis in a receiving line. He said the couple was in a room with only the pope and Vatican personnel.
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WE MUST GO DEEPER.
I think I'll trust the Vatican more than what this lawyer says.
 
P

Patryn

Member
Yeah, sounds like conservatives in the US set the meeting up when they passed along a small list of people to meet and greet, and the Vatican people who do the vetting didn't realize how big a deal this would be.

Now they're seeing that rather than talking about the rest of his trip, all everyone is talking about is this one meeting, so they're doing what they can to distance themselves from it having realized they fucked up big time.
 
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