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[playsaves3]

Yes, it is.

You keep repeating those numbers and I have no idea where you get them from. 30-32% of the RTX 4090's performance. It's over 3x. I'm gonna ignore you from now on because you've been spouting nonsense for pages.

RTX 4080 performance won't happen. You're a lunatic for even suggesting it.

You have a massive issue with the benchmarks you listed most of the benches your listing are with a cpu way more powerful than the one in the ps5 not an equivalent one find a benchmark online of the 4090 with a 3700x

 

[ChiefDada]

Because Hogwarts Legacy was broken at launch on AMD cards. This is how it stacks up to an RTX 4080 now.

Ah OK, like I said that one did look weird to me.

Additionally, the fact that AMD is so far behind NVIDIA in ray tracing should actually make you doubt AMD's ability to catch up to them, not the other way around. You're using the 4070 as a reference for the PS5 Pro's RT performance when it's an NVIDIA card. You should use an AMD card and it doesn't look good at all, unless you suddenly expect AMD to match NVIDIA in the next round. Not impossible, but given AMD's track record over the past decade, I wouldn't bet on it.

My outlook is dependent on the rumor of PS5 Pro having dedicated RT units. Like you said, the more RT, the more Nvidia pulls ahead. The same logic should apply for PS5 Pro if this rumor is true. That's why judging by RDNA 3 performance isn't desirable.

 

[playsaves3]

Because Hogwarts Legacy was broken at launch on AMD cards. This is how it stacks up to an RTX 4080 now.

In typical games with ray tracing, the 7900 XTX usually performs in the same ballpark as an RTX 3090 or sometimes 3090 Ti. Of course, the more intensive the workload is, the more NVIDIA cards pull ahead to the point that in pure ray tracing (path tracing) benchmarks, it loses to a 3080 quite easily. But path tracing is hardly relevant since I doubt Sony will have any games running it on the PS5 Pro.

Additionally, the fact that AMD is so far behind NVIDIA in ray tracing should actually make you doubt AMD's ability to catch up to them, not the other way around. You're using the 4070 as a reference for the PS5 Pro's RT performance when it's an NVIDIA card. You should use an AMD card and it doesn't look good at all, unless you suddenly expect AMD to match NVIDIA in the next round. Not impossible, but given AMD's track record over the past decade, I wouldn't bet on it.

Now this is where we agree there will be no game where the pro matches the 4070 in rt at the same time there is 0 chance it will ever be below it in raster

 

[DeepEnigma]

Not 4080, not 4070, most likely 4060 ti level performance. Responding to the person who made 3 comments right before me, Jim.

We have a quote feature, tech guru.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So what's the discord FUD campaign looking like now for PS5 Pro?

It seems a lot quieter than the false interpretation of the Github leak.

 

[Gaiff]

You have a massive issue with the benchmarks you listed most of the benches your listing are with a cpu way more powerful than the one in the ps5 not an equivalent one find a benchmark online of the 4090 with a 3700x

Are you legitimately that daft? A 3700X bottlenecks the fuck out of the 4090. What kind of idiot would pair that with a 4090? You're effectively running a CPU benchmark with a 3700X paired with a 4090, not a GPU one.

My outlook is dependent on the rumor of PS5 Pro having dedicated RT units. Like you said, the more RT, the more Nvidia pulls ahead. The same logic should apply for PS5 Pro if this rumor is true. That's why judging by RDNA 3 performance isn't desirable.

Yeah, pretty much. No idea what they'll do with their next-gen ray tracing hardware which is why I said it's possible but that I wouldn't bet on it. The RT performance is contingent upon what AMD does next and nobody knows for now. Ultimately, the biggest factor holding Sony back is AMD themselves. If NVIDIA weren't such arrogant and greedy cunts, we'd have either the PS5 or Series X with NVIDIA hardware and looking at something substantially better. Then again, NVIDIA's APUs aren't all that great so perhaps not.

 

[DeepEnigma]

So what's the discord FUD campaign looking like now for PS5 Pro?

It seems a lot quieter than the false interpretation of the Github leak.

It will trickle out in about 2 to 3 weeks or so.

 

[MasterCornholio]

It will trickle out in about 2 to 3 weeks or so.

Curious as to the angle they will take if the Series doesn't have a Pro version.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Curious as to the angle they will take if the Series doesn't have a Pro version.

You notice all those parroting channels started the next Xbox next gen talk

 

[MasterCornholio]

You notice all those parroting channels started the next Xbox next gen talk

Well they are pretty desperate in trying to kill PlayStation. They failed with the PS5 so chances of them failing again are quite high.

Still it's not the FUD they want to spread because it will hurt the Series as well.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You notice all those parroting channels started the next Xbox next gen talk

It's not going to go like they think it will. Just more convoluted jibba jabba between "next gen" and "no generations" all in one.

Series S boat anchor odd man out then?

 

[MasterCornholio]

It's not going to go like they think it will. Just more convoluted jibba jabba between "next gen" and "no generations" all in one.

Series S boat anchor odd man out then?

One thing that will really mess them up is the PS6. If they spread rumors of an early launch by Xbox then they will also spread rumors of a more powerful console by PlayStation.

Kind of like a double edge sword but after cutting themselves they shove the hilt up their asses.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It's not going to go like they think it will. Just more convoluted jibba jabba between "next gen" and "no generations" all in one.

Series S boat anchor odd man out then?

I think they are going to do it again

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think they are going to do it again

Can't wait for the spicy memory holed narratives as they update the evangelical software.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I think they are going to do it again

They really don't know how much they are hurting the Xbox brand by doing that.

 

[nick776]

I think they are going to do it again

What sort of magical retardation would cause MSFT to release another gimped system alongside a powerful one. The Series S, I think, is the main cause of many of their problems. Have you heard some inside news that they REALLY ARE going to do it again? If so, that is spectacular stupidity. In reality, though, just give me that damned new controller and I'd probably just shut up.

 

[bender]

What sort of magical retardation would cause MSFT to release another gimped system alongside a powerful one.

Sales data.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Sales data.

So they would actually sell more if they stuck with one SKU. Based on historical sales of course.

 

[bender]

So they would actually sell more if they stuck with one SKU. Based on historical sales of course.

The 360 had multiple SKUs at launch and throughout its' lifetime.

But, the question I was driving at is "what is the more successful Xbox Series platform?". And if they decide to go with one SKU going forward, maybe the answer to that question drives their strategy moving forward.

 

[MasterCornholio]

The 360 had multiple SKUs at launch and throughout its' lifetime.

But, the question I was driving at is "what is the more successful Xbox Series platform?". And if they decide to go with one SKU going forward, maybe the answer to that question drives their strategy moving forward.

The 360 was just one console though. Not 2 different consoles releasing at the same time.

 

[bender]

The 360 was just one console though. Not 2 different consoles releasing at the same time.

Hard drive limitations had an effect on game development (patch sizes, XBLA game sizes, etc.).

I think the Series S probably makes the thought of a Series Pro unlikely as you can't ask most developers to meaningfully support three different hardware profiles, especially when your sales are slumping. Hell, we didn't even see the full benefits from the PS4 Pro for many titles. But that doesn't mean that the Series S is a failure or the market hasn't spoken. Maybe the future of Xbox is to stop chasing power and push those consumers towards PC and offer a lower cost digital/streaming device.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sales data.

Which is very poor for them.

 

[twilo99]

Yeah the CPU being the rumored Zen2 will disappoint some but the trusted whispers saying 4070 level real world performance which I will take in a console for now

Why bottle neck a 4070 like that tho ..

 

[MasterCornholio]

Hard drive limitations had an effect on game development (patch sizes, XBLA game sizes, etc.).

I think the Series S probably makes the thought of a Series Pro unlikely as you can't ask most developers to meaningfully support three different hardware profiles, especially when your sales are slumping. But that doesn't mean that the Series S is a failure or the market hasn't spoken. Maybe the future of Xbox is to stop chasing power and push those consumers towards PC and offer a lower cost digital/streaming device.

If their goals was to beat PlayStation with a winning combination (power and price) then the Series S can be seen as a failure.

As for the market I believe it already speaks for itself.

 

[bender]

Which is very poor for them.

I'm talking more about the split of Series consoles and how that will guide the brand moving forward.

If their goals was to beat PlayStation with a winning combination (power and price) then the Series S can be seen as a failure.

As for the market I believe it already speaks for itself.

The Xbox Series is a failure in the goal of beating PlayStation but it is possible the S is the more successful of the Series consoles and the primary driver for the modest success of the platform.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm talking more about the split of Series consoles and how that will guide the brand moving forward.



The Xbox Series is a failure in the goal of beating PlayStation but it is possible the S is the more successful of the Series consoles.

They should just release a streaming stick and be done with it, if they want cheap and heavily discounted hardware in hope to drive their sub service. But it's about disrupting development, you see.

 

[twilo99]

So in terms of performance, do we expect the delta between the “pro” and the “base” model to be similar to what we got between the x and s?

 

[DeepEnigma]

So in terms of performance, do we expect the delta between the “pro” and the “base” model to be similar to what we got between the x and s?

No. So stop trying to set up your "PS5 holding back the Pro" narrative. Again.

This will be like it was last gen, no need for the intellectual dishonesty like shitting the bed with an 8GB/4TF boat anchor at the start of this gen.

 

[bender]

They should just release a streaming stick and be done with it, if they want cheap and heavily discounted hardware in hope to drive their sub service. But it's about disrupting development, you see.

For the last few years it seems like the future of the brand is Game Pass and not Xbox and it's not hard to see why. Xbox is losing ground in their strongest territories and make no inroads into territories they've traditionally struggled in. If it were me, I'd get out of the hardware business but I think they'll take another run at it but with little change in the results.

 

[DeepEnigma]

For the last few years it seems like the future of the brand is Game Pass and not Xbox and it's not hard to see why. Xbox is losing ground in their strongest territories and make no inroads into territories they've traditionally struggled in. If it were me, I'd get out of the hardware business but I think they'll take another run at it but with little change in the results.

They're kind of forced to at the moment. 70+% of their Game Pass subs are tied to the console hardware.

 

[twilo99]

No. So stop trying to set up your "PS5 holding back the Pro" narrative. Again.

This will be like it was last gen, no need for the intellectual dishonesty like shitting the bed with an 8GB/4TF boat anchor at the start of this gen.

I’m just curious, no need to get preemptively defensive on the matter..

From what you are saying mid gen performance delta is not a problem, but start of gen performance delta is a much bigger problem?

 

[bender]

They're kind of forced to at the moment. 70+% of their Game Pass subs are tied to the console hardware.

If they got out of the hardware business they could offer their subscription services on their frienemies and would just be another offering like Ubisoft+, EA Play, etc. and then build streaming apps for TVs or a GamePass Stick.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I’m just curious, no need to get preemptively defensive on the matter..

From what you are saying mid gen performance delta is not a problem, but start of gen performance delta is a much bigger problem?

Having a high end console in 2020 going higher in 2024 is not a problem

Having a low end console hold back the entire gen in 2020 is a problem

Should be obvious why there’s a difference

 

[twilo99]

Having a high end console in 2020 going higher in 2024 is not a problem

Having a low end console hold back the entire gen in 2020 is a problem

Should be obvious why there’s a difference

Got it, that’s the natural progression then, or at least that’s what is acceptable as such.

One could only dream about the amazing graphics we would have today if the low end one didn’t exist in 2020..

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Got it, that’s the natural progression then, or at least that’s what is acceptable as such.

One could only dream about the amazing graphics we would have today if the low end one didn’t exist in 2020..

Not about graphics being better per se, but more about developers not needing to waste resources trying to optimize for a very low spec console when they could spend that time optimizing for better power instead

Resources aren’t infinite

 

[DeepEnigma]

I’m just curious, no need to get preemptively defensive on the matter..

From what you are saying mid gen performance delta is not a problem, but start of gen performance delta is a much bigger problem?

It's not defensive. You literally tried it several pages back.

This isn't that hard to follow logically.

Having a high end console in 2020 going higher in 2024 is not a problem

Having a low end console hold back the entire gen in 2020 is a problem

Should be obvious why there’s a difference

This.

If they got out of the hardware business they could offer their subscription services on their frienemies and would just be another offering like Ubisoft+, EA Play, etc. and then build streaming apps for TVs or a GamePass Stick.

Not with the current third party offerings. They would have to only offer a cutout first party. Then again, it's probably why they want most of the third parties.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

2023 is almost over and no specs have leaked yet. I am very disappointed

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Not with the current third party offerings. They would have to only offer a cutout first party. Then again, it's probably why they want most of the third parties.

I think whenever Activision gets added to GP they are very likely to stop doing major third party deals since they are quite costly and Activision gets them a huge catalog of content

 

[twilo99]

It's not defensive. You literally tried it several pages back.

This isn't that hard to follow logically.

I was just wondering how a performance delta is justified depending on timing, and with a bit of mental yoga, it sort of makes sense..

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

I’m just curious, no need to get preemptively defensive on the matter..

From what you are saying mid gen performance delta is not a problem, but start of gen performance delta is a much bigger problem?

I don't know why you would need anyone to explain this to you, being that I would think its obvious. But the answer to your question is a resounding YES.

This is not rocket science.

Both Sony and Microsoft have the same dealer, are using the same base technologies, target the same pricing...etc. So what do you think? That stupid thing MS did with a start of gen performance delta, only succeeded in setting a low floor for this entire generation.

And I would have thought that was obvious.

The difference between a mid-gen and start-of-gen delta, is that with the mid-gen one as is the case of a PS5pro, the baseline of all PS5 games starts from 10TF. Heard that saying about the rising tide? And the PS5pro has a GPU that is only like 2x better than the OG, VS 3x better as is the case with the XSS and XSX. But even more important, very very very little has to be done by devs between game versions of the PS5 vs PS5pro. As opposed to the XSX vs XSS.

 

[Don Carlo]

Wonder what the PS5 Pro would bring to the table.

 

[bender]

Not with the current third party offerings. They would have to only offer a cutout first party. Then again, it's probably why they want most of the third parties.

Well obviously it would only be their own IP.

 

[farmerboy]

Would a next gen XBOX (instead of midgen refresh) force Sony's hand in bringing forward the PS6?

Or would they be comfortable with the PS5pro power for now?

I kinda feel its worse for MS. Massive install base for Sony probably means they stay the course and 2-3 years into next gen smash the xbox with something wayy more powerful.

This gets turned on its head if MS stay with the two pronged attack. The future timing of their respective releases has me fascinated.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

Wonder what the PS5 Pro would bring to the table.

Think of it this way.

PS5

• Quality mode - 1080p>1440p@30fps reconstructed to 4K
• Performance mode - 720p>1080p@60fps reconstructed to 1440p, then upscaled to 4K.

PS5pro

• Quality mode - 1440p>1800p@60fps reconstructed to 4K
• Performance mode - 900p>1080p@ up to 120fps reconstructed to 1440p. then upscaled to 4K.

Thats it. That is exactly what the PS5pro is designed to do.

Would a next gen XBOX (instead of midgen refresh) force Sony's hand in bringing forward the PS6?

No.

Or would they be comfortable with the PS5pro power for now?

If MS releases a next-gen Xbox in say 2026... they are fucked. And it would only dilute their platform even more. And Sony would just ignore them until 2028 when a PS6 would likely be coming to the market. But that's not the worst part, the worst part is that devs would also ignore them, and it would be treated like an Xbox pro at best. Why would devs ignore them you ask? Because that 2026 new gen Xbox,m would share 100% of its multiplat library with not just the XS consoles, but the PS5.

And oh, it helps that at that point the PS5 would have an install base north of 90M.

I kinda feel its worse for MS. Massive install base for Sony probably means they stay the course and 2-3 years into next gen smash the xbox with something wayy more powerful.

Doesn't even have to be way more powerful. It can just come with a hardware feature completely lacking in the Xbox, that puts devs in a position where making a PS6+PC version would mean it would make making an Xbox version difficult. If there are 2 to three years between releases, that's a lot of time for such a hardware feature to exist.

 

[PeteBull]

You notice all those parroting channels started the next Xbox next gen talk

U know person is full of shit when they present info about next xbox like they got it from leaks/are sure of it, i bet even spencer and his co-ceo's arent sure of next xbox specs yet, since earliest it launches is holiday 2026, hell so far ahead no1 can be even sure of the node its gonna be made on, only rough estimate would be worst 3nm, best 2nm or something inbetween aka imrpoved 3nm process.

 

[MrTired]

If they got out of the hardware business they could offer their subscription services on their frienemies and would just be another offering like Ubisoft+, EA Play, etc. and then build streaming apps for TVs or a GamePass Stick.

Why would Playstation and Nintendo allow it? Even if they do by stopping making hardware they'll become more dependent on Playstation and Nintendo make there negotiation position weaker.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Now this is where we agree there will be no game where the pro matches the 4070 in rt at the same time there is 0 chance it will ever be below it in raster

Zero chance it will be below the 4070 in raster ? The ps5 pro ?

Lol. Please shut up ? I am dead serious. Shut up.

 

[shamoomoo]

Are you legitimately that daft? A 3700X bottlenecks the fuck out of the 4090. What kind of idiot would pair that with a 4090? You're effectively running a CPU benchmark with a 3700X paired with a 4090, not a GPU one.


Yeah, pretty much. No idea what they'll do with their next-gen ray tracing hardware which is why I said it's possible but that I wouldn't bet on it. The RT performance is contingent upon what AMD does next and nobody knows for now. Ultimately, the biggest factor holding Sony back is AMD themselves. If NVIDIA weren't such arrogant and greedy cunts, we'd have either the PS5 or Series X with NVIDIA hardware and looking at something substantially better. Then again, NVIDIA's APUs aren't all that great so perhaps not.

There's nothing stopping Sony from making their RT unit as AMD does custom work. I think it's just easier and cheaper to use AMD tech.

 

[shamoomoo]

Why bottle neck a 4070 like that tho ..

The Pro is closed platform and I think some of the extra GPU power would be used more to alleviate some tasks that would run on the CPU, like how Mark Cerny explained asynchronous compute during the PS4 unveiling.

 

[jroc74]

I don't know why you would need anyone to explain this to you, being that I would think its obvious. But the answer to your question is a resounding YES.

This is not rocket science.

Both Sony and Microsoft have the same dealer, are using the same base technologies, target the same pricing...etc. So what do you think? That stupid thing MS did with a start of gen performance delta, only succeeded in setting a low floor for this entire generation.

And I would have thought that was obvious.

The difference between a mid-gen and start-of-gen delta, is that with the mid-gen one as is the case of a PS5pro, the baseline of all PS5 games starts from 10TF. Heard that saying about the rising tide? And the PS5pro has a GPU that is only like 2x better than the OG, VS 3x better as is the case with the XSS and XSX. But even more important, very very very little has to be done by devs between game versions of the PS5 vs PS5pro. As opposed to the XSX vs XSS.

That this has to be explained is wild.

Thank you for having the patience to do it.

And the talk about how the Series S shows MS a similar strategy works next gen....it works if you decide to care more about winning some power crown vs game development.

Sony showed what the best approach was with the PS5. A weaker sku at launch is not it.

A sku similar to a PS6 and a much more expensive Xbox sku more powerful might be better...but good luck doing that, lol. MS is really focusing on the wrong thing.