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Star Trek: Picard |OT| The Next, Next, Next Generation

Makariel

Member
Watched the most recent episode. I'm not in too much of a hurry now, so I just watched it as some point when my wife was asleep. The most recent episode was alright. I find a little weird how they treat Raffi's alcohol problem. The ancient prophecy trope is a bit meh, but at least it gives the evil dudettes a reason for their behaviour.

The whole Borg cube takeover can be summed up with:



Still, the last two episodes is the most fun I had with the whole series so far. Just a shame it took the series so long to get into its stride. I still don't get why they can't call androids androids anymore. Are they afraid google is suing them for murderous synthetic lifeforms being potentially mistaken for their mobile phone OS?
 

prag16

Banned
So Mass Effect and Star Trek take place in the same universe? Or what.

Direct intervention is necessary. Oo_oO
 

Stouffers

Banned
I have a question. Spoilers below for the latest episode.



When Soji and gang first meet the other Androids, the leader asks her if she completed her mission. Soji says "Yes." What was the mission? Did I miss something? Is it a secret? Why was she stationed on the Borg Artifact? Why was the other Soji a stident? What was her mission?

Also, why is everyone assuming Picard is dying soon? What changed?

One more thing: the person they're growing is totally a Picard-Android.
 

eot

Banned
This show is full of random & bad editing choices. For example, when they first get to the synth settlement they do these shitty and pointless closeups of everyone's faces, it's so out of place (they do it a few minutes before with the lighter too). Just before that in the Borg cube the editing is strikingly bad too, like when they cut to Soji looking at her picture for two seconds, then back to the rest of the group but it feels like it jumped in time. I dunno, I'm not a video editor, but it feels like it's amateur hour.
 
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GreyHorace

Member
YES! We have fucking Reapers from Mass Effect in Star Trek!!! They're not called that here, but they live on the galaxy's edge ready to come save their fellow synthetics from the dirty rotten organics.

Let's forget some of the stupid moments such as the killer giant flower defense, the hidden androids looking like hippies, the fact that Soji's new 'sister' has the ability to mindmeld and that this new sister turns out to be a traitor who wants to call on the new space gods to wipe out organics.

The stupidest thing this show has done is rip off one of the most disappointing videogame plotlines in recent memory. Just call this Mass Effect Shepard and leave Star Trek out of it. Bioware should sue for plagiarism.
 

eot

Banned
YES! We have fucking Reapers from Mass Effect in Star Trek!!! They're not called that here, but they live on the galaxy's edge ready to come save their fellow synthetics from the dirty rotten organics.

Let's forget some of the stupid moments such as the killer giant flower defense, the hidden androids looking like hippies, the fact that Soji's new 'sister' has the ability to mindmeld and that this new sister turns out to be a traitor who wants to call on the new space gods to wipe out organics.

The stupidest thing this show has done is rip off one of the most disappointing videogame plotlines in recent memory. Just call this Mass Effect Shepard and leave Star Trek out of it. Bioware should sue for plagiarism.
Mass Effect wasn't even that original itself. Large parts of it feel lifted from or inspired by Babylon 5
 

GreyHorace

Member
Mass Effect wasn't even that original itself. Large parts of it feel lifted from or inspired by Babylon 5
I'll take your word for it because I've never really watched Babylon 5. But still, Mass Effect was inspired by a bunch of stuff such as Star Wars and even Trek. Despite the lack of originality, it managed to create it's own unique brand and feel of scifi.

The problem is that Picard feels more like Mass Effect than fucking Star Trek. The violence, the Whedonesque dialogue, the grim atmosphere and like I said before, the insertion of a machines vs organics plotline from out of nowhere. I agree with Rich Evans that Alex Kurtzman thinks this is what passes as compelling of scifi today. Nevermind that we gamers saw what happened when Bioware got high on it's own farts and ended it in the most disastrous way possible.

I think Kurtzman and company are doing the same thing with Star Trek. They're all fucking idiots.
 

Fnord

Member
I feel this show, generally, gets worse with each new episode. So much disdain or lack of respect for what the franchise has always been or established canon. Sigh.
 
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Why create for a show, when you can just buy it? or take it..

From the flashbacks:



This is the new way.

See the 'Toy' emperor on the TROS poster for more sighing.
 
Starfleet Motto:

In the fictional universe of Star Trek, Starfleet Academy is where recruits to Starfleet's officer corps are trained. It was created in the year 2161, when the United Federation of Planets was founded. The Academy's motto is "Ex astris, scientia" – "From the stars, knowledge." This is derived from the Apollo 13 motto "Ex luna, scientia" – "From the moon, knowledge." In turn, the Apollo 13 motto was inspired by "Ex scientia, tridens," the motto of the United States Naval Academy, meaning "From knowledge, seapower."


 

eot

Banned
I'll take your word for it because I've never really watched Babylon 5. But still, Mass Effect was inspired by a bunch of stuff such as Star Wars and even Trek. Despite the lack of originality, it managed to create it's own unique brand and feel of scifi.

The problem is that Picard feels more like Mass Effect than fucking Star Trek. The violence, the Whedonesque dialogue, the grim atmosphere and like I said before, the insertion of a machines vs organics plotline from out of nowhere. I agree with Rich Evans that Alex Kurtzman thinks this is what passes as compelling of scifi today. Nevermind that we gamers saw what happened when Bioware got high on it's own farts and ended it in the most disastrous way possible.

I think Kurtzman and company are doing the same thing with Star Trek. They're all fucking idiots.
I agree with most of what you said, and yes Mass Effect did create something cool and unique. The progenitor race stuff though was honestly never the good part, and it got worse the more they expanded on it. The stuff I cared about was the recent history of that universe, and its current events. Of course Javik was cool, and Sovereign was alright, but that big mystery stuff almost never pays off.

Oh, and Babylon 5 is fantastic :) if you're ever in the mood for something a bit like Star Trek, but less idealistic. It has some truly memorable characters that grow and evolve more than in any other show I can think of, they're completely different by the end.
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth
I'm obviously one of the few who really REALLY likes this series... And the last episode was great!
 

DeafTourette

Older than air but younger than the foundations of the earth

I'm a lifelong Star Trek fan... I'm not as critical as most people. If I like something, I like it. If I don't, I don't. I just don't take everything so seriously. Not unless it has to do with my life, my kid's life, any of my family's and friends' lives, etc...

This season has felt like a combination of seasons 1&2 of TNG, to me.
 
Let's forget some of the stupid moments such as the killer giant flower defense, the hidden androids looking like hippies, the fact that Soji's new 'sister' has the ability to mindmeld and that this new sister turns out to be a traitor who wants to call on the new space gods to wipe out organics.

Ugh... I despised the look of this android city. It's as boring and uninspired as the idiotic Romulan nun planet. An actual planet full of Data-like synths androids would be something very different and hi-tech in nature. Not another one of Jared Leto's damn meditation retreats.

And the most damning thing to date: I'm sorry, but all the retcons in the multiverse cannot plausibly give Dr. Soong a biological son who was never mentioned by anyone, including the mother. What a stupid way to shoehorn more Spiner into the show.
 

Shantae

Banned
I still can't believe that they just ripped off Mass Effect...I still like Mass Effect to a point, even after the horrendous ending of 3(andromeda doesn't exist), but that kind of plot did not belong in Star Trek ffs. Except for the old series, Star Trek is just completely dead to me at this point.

Star Trek aired almost 20 years before I was born, and it still held weight to me as I grew up. I still loved watching the original series. What they turned Star Trek into will resonate with no one and will no longevity to it. Fucking trash.
 
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GreyHorace

Member
I still can't believe that they just ripped off Mass Effect...I still like Mass Effect to a point, even after the horrendous ending of 3(andromeda doesn't exist), but that kind of plot did not belong in Star Trek ffs. Except for the old series, Star Trek is just completely dead to me at this point.
What's even sadder is that Mass Effect 1 pulled off that plot way better than this show... well until ME2 and ME3 of course.

Weren't videogames supposed to have shitty writing compared to movies and TV? Why are TV shows now ripping off games?
 
(Haven't watched the final episode yet, but: ) Chabon is an absolute hack on every level. ST: Picard has only revealed just show utterly useless and vapid the current generation of venerated sci-fi writers are, ever since the genre was ruined by braindead progressive signaling. What a disgrace of a man on every level. We need a new sci-fi genre that returns to the roots (thoughtful technological futures; actually complex ethical questions; deliberation, problem solving over emotionalism; dystopias that aren't just fantasies of blue-haired androgyny; etc).
 
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Makariel

Member
I was fairly positive about where this is going with the most recent episodes, then I watched the one with space flowers and reapers...



Babylon 5 has been namechecked here already. I think I go back and rewatch that one instead.

Again, what was Soji’s Mission and why did she say it was accomplished?


It doesn't matter as long as there is a mystery. I'm paraphrasing a bit here.
 

Ma-Yuan

Member
It was so fucking bad. Did they reuse the discovery bridge? When Riker was there this looked like really bad fan fiction. And seven is a lesbian now? 🙄

God this was all so awful. How can they keep fucking up star trek.

Hey data lives in simulation. Well let's kill him... He wants to die because it's human... 😩
 
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Tritroid

Member
I'm a lifelong Star Trek fan... I'm not as critical as most people. If I like something, I like it. If I don't, I don't. I just don't take everything so seriously. Not unless it has to do with my life, my kid's life, any of my family's and friends' lives, etc...

This season has felt like a combination of seasons 1&2 of TNG, to me.
You're not alone, I'm liking it as well; it doesn't deserve the "this is trash" hate it gets. That last episode was such a fan service and it was awesome (especially Riker showing up in uniform again).

I'm excited for season 2.
 

GreyHorace

Member


It doesn't matter as long as there is a mystery. I'm paraphrasing a bit here.
How many writers today have relied on this garbage idea instead of... you know? Good storytelling?

Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who, Mass Effect and probably other stuff I haven't seen. Isn't the whole point of a mystery is that it gets resolved by the end? Not stretching it out in an effort to dupe viewers into thinking it's more special than it is?

Anyway, back to Picard. Oof. What a weakass finale that was. And Picard's death was treated with all the solemnity of a wet fart. So he gets a sweet new synthetic body but with none of the benefits? He's just back to being an old bastard sans brain tumor? And now he has a ship and a crew so it's back to the status quo again? I thought this damn show was supposed to shake things up? Argh!

But you know what? Nevermind. I'll just wait for the inevitable Red Letter Media review and laugh at it.

 
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I have mixed feelings about the season finale. I really don't know how to describe it. There are parts I love like the showdown between the Federation and Romulan fleets. And then there are things like the big bad super duper hyper advanced and powerful artificial life forms that are beginning to emerge...and a moment later they're a non-issue. Why? Why fucking build them up to be this galactic level apocalyptic threat...and just fucking can them! It would have been a hell of a lot better if the Federation and Romulan fleets had an all out battle. I was fucking waiting for it. I was hoping for some bad ass giant fucking ship to ship combat. We never ever got a single real fight between Romulan and Federation ships besides a dragged out fight in Nemesis, but that was extremely one sided and underwhelming. While it looked like the federation had the massively superior fleet and would have kicked the shit out of the Romulans, I would have been estatic...but no. Like the Borg Cube being fully up and running again, the potential for some hype and big bad ass combat goes limp quicker than a boner seeing Brie Larson's ass without clothing.

I enjoyed Riker being Riker and being prepared to not take shit from the Tal Shiar Commander and knowing the fight was heavily in his favor. The Data thing...pulled some heart strings. Finding out that he was more or less in his own quantum purgatory and seemingly having emotion and feeling his version of agony and hopelessness in artificial life limbo. Ok watching Data pass away onto the big artificial afterlife in the sky was sad, and it got me teary eyed. Brent Spiner has always been an amazing actor to me, and Data was always one of my favorite characters. That was just a heart breaking and sad scene.

Android Picard...good god. It's 94 year old human Picard with a new coat of paint and a brain damage removal. Given that Picard's essence is alive and well, and the Synthcard is real Picard and not a copy seems to show that there is a energy form/afterlife/spirit realm I guess.

My mixed feelings are making me babble like a loon. I shall stop here. The whole episode just made me squint a lot. The great parts and the terrible parts just made me want to imagine it completely differently. The Federation fleet waxed the Romulan fleet with gusto.

One thing though about the federation ships. Good god it looked like they took the CG models of Abrams style Star trek ships and kit bashed them with shit like the Sovereign class, Ambassador class, Galaxy Class, Constitution Class, Excelcior class, Prometheus class, Intrepid Class and some sprinklings of new ship classes from Star Trek Online. And they all just looked so fucking uniform in design with a lot of copy paste. in the past, the look and variety of federation ship designs was so fucking huge...and then this.


Overall, I liked the series a lot, because I just rode the nostalgia wave. There were so many terribly bad and shitty shitty moments and characters, but there was a load of charm, fun sequences and enjoyable moments. But holy fuck it needs a lot of work done. I hope to god Season 2 fixes a lot of the issues the series had going for it.

One thing, it was fun as fuck to see Jeri Ryan as a much more human and much more emotive 7 of 9. She even seemed to accept/not care that people called her Annika. And her fight with Creepy incest romulan Sister bitch was satisfying. I would not mind seeing 7 of 9 becoming a part of the main cast and part of the crew.

I think I'm done with it for now. I'll just sit back and wait for season 2 to happen....and hope to god they learned from the long list of mistakes that kept me from loving the series like I did with TOS, TNG, DS9 and even Voyager.
 
It was so fucking bad. Did they reuse the discovery bridge? When Riker was there this looked like really bad fan fiction. And seven is a lesbian now? 🙄

God this was all so awful. How can they keep fucking up star trek.

Hey data lives in simulation. Well let's kill him... He wants to die because it's human... 😩

I haven't bothered to watch Discovery much, but if they did, it wouldn't be a big shocker considering they used a fucking shutterstock image for the image of the android in the "apocalypse" flashbacks. :messenger_grimmacing_

My main gripe about Riker coming to save the day was that he seemed too happy and upbeat like he was chuggin a bottle of booze and the bridge crew was between rounds of beer pong when he was threatening Commodore "Flat note and forgettable" lady. A more serious and intimidating attitude was needed. It was too campy of a stare down.

On the subject of 7 being a lesbian, I honestly don't think she is one. She wanted that Chakotay D by the end of Voyager, and I'm sure they had a hot and steamy relationship after voyager returned home....ALLEGEDLY. The fact the didn't mention him at all is a slap in the face to Robert Beltran, as he made the character work and was one of the better characters from Voyager. All signs point to 7 just being straight up bi-sexual at this point, but it's sooo fucking forced.

Where the fuck was the development to even hint at a Raffi and 7 of 9 pairing? The only iota was Raffi saying that she respects what the Fenris Rangers do. That was it! If there were character development shown that portrayed a growing attraction between Raffi and 7 of 9, then it wouldn't have been nearly as bad. But no. It was an out of nowhere "appease some demographics" move.

While the Data thing was sad, and I did tear up from it as Data is one of my favorite TNG charaters, it was almost insulting to the character's noble and selfless sacrifice when he saved Picard right before the Schimitar blew up. Data had his emotion chip, and he could feel things. I'm sure in the 10 or so years he came to understand the various forms and concepts of love, and Picard was sort of a mentor and almost Father like figure to him. Thanks to the emotion chip giving Data the ability to feel 100% genuine emotion, I'm sure he loved Picard as a friend, and probably in a way as a father, and showed that love by sacrificing himself for the man that helped him learn what it is to be human far more than anyone else.

And what did they do? SLAPPED HIS ASS IN A FORM OF FUCKING PURGATORY...FOR OVER 15 YEARS. For data, that was probably several eternities, because if we go back ST First Contact, Data was tempted by the Borg Queen's offer for 0.6 seconds after she gave him real flesh and organic sensations, he said that for an android, 0.6 seconds is nearly an eternity.

So to try and answer your question about how can they keep fucking up star trek, I guess in a way, putting Data's soul, or something extremely like one, in a perpetual purgatory for countless eternities, I wish I could say that they couldn't possibly do worse than that to such a beloved and revered character...but you and I both know, they will cook up a scene or episode to fuck it even worse than that.

God damn this episode got me overthinking this shit way too fucking much. Punch me in the face and count to 10. Im fuckin out like a boxer in a coma.
 

VertigoOA

Banned
Android Picard is one of the worst ideas ever... ever! Reminds me of the original Terminator: Salvation ending were John Connor dies and Sam Worthington becomes a Connor doppelgänger to keep the resistance going., except far worse here with Picard. So goddamn stupid.

This isn’t Star Trek. And easily at Disney levels of Star Wars bastardization. Fuck this shit!

Ps - Raffi is a shit tier character. Every time I hear her say “JL” I want her to OD on her space crack.

The last episode was boring cg space vomit. This series turned into an epic pile of shit.
 
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Not related to Picard there was a fun Q&A with John De lancie that I thought was pretty cool that came out recently. He looks really good for his age really, considering how long ago TNG was.

 

eot

Banned
Android Picard is one of the worst ideas ever... ever! Reminds me of the original Terminator: Salvation ending were John Connor dies and Sam Worthington becomes a Connor doppelgänger to keep the resistance going., except far worse here with Picard. So goddamn stupid.
It's also fucking pointless and poorly done.
First they kill him, then they have this unearned crybaby scene with characters we don't care about who have zero on screen chemistry with Picard, and whose relationships with him we've basically only heard about, not seen. Then he's revived, so what was the point? Data-looking guy didn't tell them he was gonna try to download his consciousness?

Why did Starfleet show up with a giant fucking armada? Yes, Picard called them, but I don't recall him saying "deploy the entire fleet" and even if he did it's ridiculous to think they would. Why did they let the people from Picard's crew back in the village when they just arrested everyone? How were they so easily convinced by Narek, the villain for most of the show, that they need to stop the synths? It's garbage, all of it.
 
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Stouffers

Banned
I really enjoyed the finale. 🤷‍♂️
I haven't bothered to watch Discovery much, but if they did, it wouldn't be a big shocker considering they used a fucking shutterstock image for the image of the android in the "apocalypse" flashbacks. :messenger_grimmacing_

My main gripe about Riker coming to save the day was that he seemed too happy and upbeat like he was chuggin a bottle of booze and the bridge crew was between rounds of beer pong when he was threatening Commodore "Flat note and forgettable" lady. A more serious and intimidating attitude was needed. It was too campy of a stare down.

On the subject of 7 being a lesbian, I honestly don't think she is one. She wanted that Chakotay D by the end of Voyager, and I'm sure they had a hot and steamy relationship after voyager returned home....ALLEGEDLY. The fact the didn't mention him at all is a slap in the face to Robert Beltran, as he made the character work and was one of the better characters from Voyager. All signs point to 7 just being straight up bi-sexual at this point, but it's sooo fucking forced.

Where the fuck was the development to even hint at a Raffi and 7 of 9 pairing? The only iota was Raffi saying that she respects what the Fenris Rangers do. That was it! If there were character development shown that portrayed a growing attraction between Raffi and 7 of 9, then it wouldn't have been nearly as bad. But no. It was an out of nowhere "appease some demographics" move.

While the Data thing was sad, and I did tear up from it as Data is one of my favorite TNG charaters, it was almost insulting to the character's noble and selfless sacrifice when he saved Picard right before the Schimitar blew up. Data had his emotion chip, and he could feel things. I'm sure in the 10 or so years he came to understand the various forms and concepts of love, and Picard was sort of a mentor and almost Father like figure to him. Thanks to the emotion chip giving Data the ability to feel 100% genuine emotion, I'm sure he loved Picard as a friend, and probably in a way as a father, and showed that love by sacrificing himself for the man that helped him learn what it is to be human far more than anyone else.

And what did they do? SLAPPED HIS ASS IN A FORM OF FUCKING PURGATORY...FOR OVER 15 YEARS. For data, that was probably several eternities, because if we go back ST First Contact, Data was tempted by the Borg Queen's offer for 0.6 seconds after she gave him real flesh and organic sensations, he said that for an android, 0.6 seconds is nearly an eternity.

So to try and answer your question about how can they keep fucking up star trek, I guess in a way, putting Data's soul, or something extremely like one, in a perpetual purgatory for countless eternities, I wish I could say that they couldn't possibly do worse than that to such a beloved and revered character...but you and I both know, they will cook up a scene or episode to fuck it even worse than that.

God damn this episode got me overthinking this shit way too fucking much. Punch me in the face and count to 10. Im fuckin out like a boxer in a coma.
I’m sure Data was fine with 15-20 years. The fucker was buried under San Francisco for 500 years.
 
Holy hell what was all that

Soong-son-chan just low key invented immortality--can create flesh & blood replica bodies that are basically 100% human and implant your mind with ease in his lab--and everyone just went on about their business as if nothing big happened. Why didn't he implant Data's consciousness in a new Data body at any point?? I mean, that makes way more sense than creating an old-man clone with an intentionally imposed 10-year shelf life? What the hell
 
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