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Studios consider Baldur’s Gate 3 anomaly : “It’s Rockstar-level nonsense for scope”
- Thread starter Buggy Loop
- Start date
gaming_again
Member
cartman414
Member
Then again, if getting upstaged by Nintendo taking their time despite not being so small didn't teach them that lesson, I fear things won't change much.
Portugeezer
Member
The publishers need to know what it takes when the bar is raised, developers don't like it because they don't trust the publishers to give them what is necessary.
The silver lining is that publishers still use Metacritic scores as a metric, to an extent, so maybe (just maybe) some of them will allocate more budget/resources to compete in this regard.
Stare-Bear
Banned
I too would be bricking it if my upcoming game looked like this. Made by a much bigger team, with a lot more funding...
The Avowed team is much smaller than Larian.
Larian has over 400 employees, that's almost double Obsidian and Obsidian is working on multiple projects.
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yeah and who told them to work on multiple projects to keep a loss leading sub service alive.
they are owned by a trillion dollar company, what exactly is holding them back from hiring 400 employees.
maybe they should bitch to their employers instead of gamers.
gaming_again
Member
That’s not my or any other customers’ problem.
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
I too would be bricking it if my upcoming game looked like this. Made by a much bigger team, with a lot more funding...
Disgusting art style. Clockwork Revolution by inXile looks much better than Avowed and their team is half the size.
nemiroff
Gold Member
That's factually wrong. And how the fuck do you keep surviving with that post history, are you sanctioned or something?
Anyway, not only is this an outstanding game, it is also going to make the whole industry better. New standards from day one.
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nowhat
Member
I dunno, I preferred the dinner.
daclynk
Member
MAKE VIDEO GAMES GREAT AGAIN
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Deanington
Member
What I love about Baldurs Gate being so successful is that I hope it forces studios to make better RPG's. Bring back actual choices and depth please.
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Buggy Loop
Member
I was mostly thinking about Bioware
They literally started the golden age of cRPG games on PC in the 90's and oh how they have fallen.
Deanington
Member
Yeah I agree! I am going to edit my post and take out Beth. It was supposed to be a general statement but Beth just needed to be in there for some reason, lol.
Wildebeest
Member
Golden age was Ultima, Wizardry, Gold Box, Bards Tale, and so on. Fallout and Diablo started a Silver Age. Bioware lucked out by hitting a winning Silver Age formula by adding more Final Fantasy type story elements. Bethesda and InExile have more claim to a golden age CRPG legacy than Bioware.
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Honey Bunny
Member
I don't have a problem with devs wishing they were in a position to make something so good.
I do have a problem with devs implying its 'unfair' that Larian was, or that their own games should be compared to BG3.
You're charging the same amount for your games, you're probably going to try to nickle and dime me more later on and you probably have big publisher support, so shut the fuck up.
I do have a problem with devs implying its 'unfair' that Larian was, or that their own games should be compared to BG3.
You're charging the same amount for your games, you're probably going to try to nickle and dime me more later on and you probably have big publisher support, so shut the fuck up.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Some salty ass bitches in that OP.
Thabass
Member
Oh Jesus Christ, I agree with Destin? God I feel dirty.
This is where the developers concern should have been about, WRPGs are the best way to shorten a studio life expectancy, because either you don't have money, or you have a corporate pressure, or everybody disagrees and starts leaving. You don't see the same issue happening in short term with other types of games.
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MiguelItUp
Member
When I first heard about this stuff it made me rage. The fact that various AAA devs were dogpiling on Twitter basically saying the game is creating untouchable expectations for other studios, lmao. So, they're upset that a studio like Larian (that has been through quite a bit of shit) worked really hard and pulled off something really special. Something that pushes the envelope in so many ways, especially in innovation and creativity.
These devs making it sound like they don't want to have to work hard, lol.
These devs making it sound like they don't want to have to work hard, lol.
Krappadizzle
Member
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Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
This smug AAA dev got shutdown real hard in the replies by the Larian's Director of Publishing. Love to see it!
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Cyberpunkd
Member
Wait a fucking minute, this game is on Mac….
Anyone knows how does it play on MacBook M1 Pro?
Anyone knows how does it play on MacBook M1 Pro?
Puscifer
Member
Well this is a weird take.
You know at Biowares peak they created Kotor, Jade Empire and Dragon Age 1, which were amazing games that only took about 20-30 hours to complete but gave you many options that had them replayable, right?
It's why I can play KotoR so much, I can finish it in 15 hours and still feel like every playthrough is unique enough to do it again.
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gaming_again
Member
It’s not out for Mac just yet. People played early access on an M1 at mid settings.
LaughingStock
Member
Where's our MVGGA hats?
gaming_again
Member
This smug AAA dev got shutdown real hard in the replies by the Larian's Director of Publishing. Love to see it!
Good to see the devs pushing back a bit.
Fuz
Banned
I didn't dislike the trailer, but what the fuck were they thinking by releasing this screenshot?
I too would be bricking it if my upcoming game looked like this. Made by a much bigger team, with a lot more funding...
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
It’s the early access version, full version is yet to be released.
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Fuz
Banned
This smug AAA dev got shutdown real hard in the replies by the Larian's Director of Publishing. Love to see it!
That was my question too, when I saw that tweet... what funding?
It's not that Larian has the same resources as, let's say, blizzard or Naughty Dog. Far from it - their games all were succesfull but pretty niche.
VideoGameEnjoyer
Member
The salty tweets are so unbecoming. Developers should be all love for each other on social media.
Fuz
Banned
Oh boy, you really don't know artists
Fake
Member
Spot one. Tired of devs whining about what consumers can or not talk about.
ChoosableOne
ChoosableAll
According to this website, the development of Dragon Age: Origins took about 6 years, and towards the end, a considerable amount of crunch was required. The games I mentioned were recent RPG titles. According to this website, Pillars of Eternity was developed in close to 3 years and was released in 2015. The game Tyranny, also from the same company, was released in 2016, and Pillars of Eternity 2 was released in 2018. Similar low-budget RPGs had become quite prevalent in recent times - that's what I was referring to, actually. I'm not saying the games were bad, but it was evident that they weren't made to revolutionize the RPG genre.
anthraticus
Banned
Yea, golden age started in the 80s with those classics for sure.
Lefay and Peterson's Bethesda though.....NOT the Toddler's !!
KaiserBecks
Member
Looking at Obsidian‘s track record, New Vegas was an anomaly as well. Damn shame.
Cyberpunkd
Member
That they wouldn’t have without great word of mouth, which was a result of their stellar track record. Guess what - you make good games, people will trust your next game will be good. Shocking.
Is anything preventing EA going Early Access with ME? Ubisoft with AC? Did I miss anything except hurt pride?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
This whole topic, I have to admit, annoys the hell out of me.
Exceptionally good, exceptionally ambitious ANYTHING is always an outlier. Doubly so in the commercial space where "success" can be quantified in many ways other than the creative, because ultimately these products only exist to turn a profit and allow for the creators to continue working.
Can you imagine if the same rationale was applied in a classroom? Just because one kid is a savant, way better than the rest of the students it doesn't follow that everyone else is lazy or backwards! Is it not possible to celebrate excellence without dismissing the efforts of everyone else?
The point that initial tweet was making is that expecting the peak of scope and ambition represented by BG3 to become a new standard is simply unrealistic. The circumstances and conditions of its development are not representative of the entire industry.
Smaller developers simply do not have the time and resources to keep up, corporate devs have the resources but not the freedom due to the demands of business. Not to mention the obvious fact that just because a person works for a AAA dev, it doesn't follow that they have the power to influence the overall direction and economics of the projects they are assigned to.
No creative person wants to spend their days figuring out monetization strategies! Does that sound like the sort of thing people get into game-dev for?
NO. Its an imposition made out of necessity, because if the money doesn't flow, they'll be out of a job.
Sorry to get ranty, but some of the opinion pieces made by Youtubers honestly made me want to reach into the screen and go full-blown Homer Simpson choking Bart on them! Especially when they pull this thing where they feign this understanding that "game dev is hard but..." schtick...
If they actually cared to understand, they wouldn't be using Tweets from random developers as representative of the failings of AAA game-dev. The people who make the decisions that they hate regarding scope and monetization aren't the ones posting!
Everyone is trying the best they can under the circumstances, because truthfully there's no upside to not doing so. Noone wants to spend 5 years on a thing that people don't like or more importantly want to spend their money on. Disappointment, disdain, shortly followed by unemployment is not a career highlight.
Exceptionally good, exceptionally ambitious ANYTHING is always an outlier. Doubly so in the commercial space where "success" can be quantified in many ways other than the creative, because ultimately these products only exist to turn a profit and allow for the creators to continue working.
Can you imagine if the same rationale was applied in a classroom? Just because one kid is a savant, way better than the rest of the students it doesn't follow that everyone else is lazy or backwards! Is it not possible to celebrate excellence without dismissing the efforts of everyone else?
The point that initial tweet was making is that expecting the peak of scope and ambition represented by BG3 to become a new standard is simply unrealistic. The circumstances and conditions of its development are not representative of the entire industry.
Smaller developers simply do not have the time and resources to keep up, corporate devs have the resources but not the freedom due to the demands of business. Not to mention the obvious fact that just because a person works for a AAA dev, it doesn't follow that they have the power to influence the overall direction and economics of the projects they are assigned to.
No creative person wants to spend their days figuring out monetization strategies! Does that sound like the sort of thing people get into game-dev for?
NO. Its an imposition made out of necessity, because if the money doesn't flow, they'll be out of a job.
Sorry to get ranty, but some of the opinion pieces made by Youtubers honestly made me want to reach into the screen and go full-blown Homer Simpson choking Bart on them! Especially when they pull this thing where they feign this understanding that "game dev is hard but..." schtick...
If they actually cared to understand, they wouldn't be using Tweets from random developers as representative of the failings of AAA game-dev. The people who make the decisions that they hate regarding scope and monetization aren't the ones posting!
Everyone is trying the best they can under the circumstances, because truthfully there's no upside to not doing so. Noone wants to spend 5 years on a thing that people don't like or more importantly want to spend their money on. Disappointment, disdain, shortly followed by unemployment is not a career highlight.
tomato shrub
Member
I'm not sure what's worse. This, or developers of inferior open world games dumping on Elden Ring last year, because it wasn't spoon-feeding them content. You'd think that games with high player agency and no BS nickel and diming being GotY two years in a row would finally send the right signals, but instead these dorks are coming out the woodwork whining.
Probably the same guys who make it a priority to put culture war shit into their titles above all else. A good chunk of the western developer scene seems to be beyond hope.
Probably the same guys who make it a priority to put culture war shit into their titles above all else. A good chunk of the western developer scene seems to be beyond hope.
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i can understand the reasoning for smaller devs, its that obsidian josh butting in reaching for same excuse is what is infuriaiting.
they are owned by a zillion dollar company. there is abolutely no excuse for them or other big boys to not to achieve similar depth and breadth.
if you are hold back by your corporate owners (which btw doesnt seem to mind burning billions at every oppurtunity), shame them publicly, not the players for wanting more.
whole thing became like "quality work shaming", which is extremely annoying and unfair to larian. no wonder they started to push back.
Buggy Loop
Member
Larian dev “what funding?”
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Ronin_7
Banned
Larian dev “what funding?”
Karak
Member
So far I have only got 12 answers to my emailed questions to other devs. But so far none of them have expressed any worry and 4 have pointed out that amazing genre-raising level games have come out and then other games have that might not be AS good and are still loved. 2 others pointed out that BG3 has done them a service in interest in their own games with one stating they saw more interest in the last 3-4 days after BG than they did the prior 90 days combined
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Tbh there is a huge lesson to be learned. All devs should be putting their games out on early access as soon as it's playable. The 3 years of $60 early access this got shaped it into a masterpiece. Gamers will provide good feedback and are willing to pay full price for a incomplete game