But do we really NEED to know anything about Palpatine? If you just accept Star Wars as a morality story aiming mostly at kids, then the more grey you throw at the villain, the less successful the story becomes. Personally I'd rather they just move past this Sith "there is always two" evil thing entirely and just have an invading evil alien race, conquering Mandalorians, or just about ANYTHING other than "they are evil because they follow the Dark Side". As a tale of Anakins rise, fall, and redemption the PT+OT work pretty well, but all the Palpatine shenanigans are superfluous, really. Heck, even Snoke in TFA was fine, but of course TLJ had to mock him and then ROS just shit the bed with it all. Even Thrawn is getting pulled down by showing him too much. As a "tactical genius" the Ahsoka show has COMPLETELY clowned him because we are no longer allowed to have truly evil villains and heroes who actually suffer at their hands.
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The Acolyte premieres June 4th on Disney+
- Thread starter ManaByte
- Start date
BlackTron
Gold Member
I'm a little confused by this take. In the beginning you said we don't really need that kind of villain it could just be "bad guys" like aliens. But then at the end you mention "we are no longer allowed to have truly evil villains and heroes who actually suffer at their hands."
Isn't that exactly what Palpatine is? The perfect villain, and not very morally grey. If anything, this teaches kids that bad guys are often the nice guy right next to you in sheep's clothing. I think the story was more successful with Palpatine's development, and witnessing the depths of his planned bad intentions over decades. It's a cautionary tale for real life. A manipulative genius played by a good actor through both trilogies.
All the time spent on Palpatine as senator, then chancellor, then grand emperor is unnecessary IMHO. Plus then he has this cloning plan? And he is a Sith on top of all that? In ANH and ESB he was just the shadowy bad guy used as a justification for the Rebellions actions, then in ROTJ he started in on all this Dark Side master plan stuff which was double, triple, quadruple downed on in the PT and all the EU. IMHO the Sith/Dark Side stuff is far too "lawful evil" with these strange rigid "rule of two" and "apprentice will kill the master" stuff that makes no sense and seems inherently unstable despite it showing up again and again.
As an adult I appreciate morally grey characters that have proper motivations for their actions (and Sheev is supposedly prepping to resist a massive invasion in the EU, right?) but the kid friendly mythic bones of the OT don't really support this stuff well.
I dunno, my relationship with Star Wars is complicated.
BlackTron
Gold Member
The cloning plan didn't make sense a lot of ep2 relied on the Jedi being utter and total complete idiots. Like not even questioning the purpose of the Republic army that had magically appeared when they just needed it. And Palpatine was able to rely on them being that dumb?
The EU adds a morally grey component with him supposedly prepping for an invasion. If you lump that in with everything non-OT I can see where the opinion comes from. But I'm not lumping it in, just taking Palpatine as Lucas's own character in his 6 films.
Sith don't strike down their masters because it's a Sith law, they do it because it's their nature. If they weren't shitty enough to do this, they wouldn't be a Sith.
ManaByte
Rage Bait Youtuber
The point of it is that the Jedi were so blinded by their hubris at that point that they couldn't see it right under their noses. Windu and Yoda have dialog about it in ROTS.
See, if they have hubris in TPM, then presumably at SOME POINT they didn't and were competently and capably doing their job. Are we ever gonna see that? Sounds like in The Acolyte the jedi are already well on their way to that point, if not there already.
Give me the time when force sensitives were, presumably, rogue elements and the Jedi Code had to be forged as a way to control and channel these people into a unified force of GOOD. Why having few attachments was considered necessary. Why policing the galaxy instead of ruling it directly was the path to take. Why suppressing and controlling emotions in such a Bushido-like fashion was deemed not just important, but ESSENTIAL, lest the Dark Side creep in.
I don't really want more explanations on the exact nature of the Force, certainly no "midichlorian" stuff, but rather a reflection on the human response to such power and how it affects decisions and the responsibility it brings. It's sorta superhero'y in that you are either Space Police or a Menace to Society(tm) if you can use the Force, very little in between, so either someone (the Jedi?) is culling out the middle ground people or the Force itself pushes folks to the extremes. I feel like TLJ hinted at this a little but that was about the only interesting bit from that film.
ManaByte
Rage Bait Youtuber
Mangold is making that when he finishes the Dylan biopic he's filming now.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
The whole "go woke, go broke" is bullshit. Plenty of woke that does extremely well and these corporations know it. That's why they stick to it and things are going to get even worse.It's truly bizarre that there's a good chance Disney are relying on the very people who claim to hate them to keep their products going. I can't comment on Sol as a character, because I haven't watched the show, because I know it's not something I'll enjoy.
What does sell is controversy. So you get something that's really, really woke and it's an IP that's recognizable, people are going to flock to it especially the haters.
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nush
Gold Member
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MisterFalcon
Member
If it failed it was woke.
If it was a success is was not woke
If it was a success is was not woke
John Marston
GAF's very own treasure goblin
Quit watching 20 minutes into the first episode.
At work some coworkers were all giddy about this on Teams.
I had to restrain myself to avoid a meeting with HR.
I guess they like lightsabers.
At work some coworkers were all giddy about this on Teams.
I had to restrain myself to avoid a meeting with HR.
I guess they like lightsabers.
John Marston
GAF's very own treasure goblin
There's nobody left who actually cares about this franchise at Disney.
I can picture them all high fiving each other after a screening.
Meanwhile there's a ton of competent & creative writers without a job.
I can picture them all high fiving each other after a screening.
Meanwhile there's a ton of competent & creative writers without a job.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
It's sad. It really seems like the entertainment industry especially Disney productions, TTRPs and especially most Western AAA games are owned and/or run by slacktivists nowadays.
I really don't see it getting any better and just getting worse.
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Madflavor
Gold Member
Zephyranthes
Member
Watched the first episode. The acting is bad. The writing is worse. Having one of the characters look at the camera and awkwardly explain the plot is bad enough when it happens once, yet here they managed to do it 3 times in 45 minutes. If I had to pick my favorite bit of cringe dialogue, it would have to be this one:
"If you attack a Jedi with a weapon, you will fail. Steel or laser are no match for them. But an acolyte kills without a weapon." -Mysterious figure, speaking to a woman who literally killed a Jedi with a knife a few days ago
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Apparently this had a $180 million budget per Headland. Obi-wan was $90, Andor $250.
Kind of a travesty to throw peanuts at Obi-wan for a canonically important story with Ewan and Hayden on board, yet you go full late stage GoT money for Jedi obesity. But that’s where we are.
Kind of a travesty to throw peanuts at Obi-wan for a canonically important story with Ewan and Hayden on board, yet you go full late stage GoT money for Jedi obesity. But that’s where we are.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
They seriously need to just reboot the damn franchise before Disney started touching any of it. But Disney won't do that. They are too stubborn and will continue to slowly kill the franchise.
ManaByte
Rage Bait Youtuber
Real sets and locations. Obi-wan used the Volume, thus it was much cheaper. They built a bunch of sets for Acolyte and Andor, and Andor filmed all over the UK.
People kept complaining about how cheap the Volume looked.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Gold Member
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ManaByte
Rage Bait Youtuber
Sometimes. But like the planet where Obi-wan rescues Leia you can see the limitations, and that's where a lot of the complaints came from which is why they didn't use it much on Andor or Acolyte and instead built sets and filmed on location.
It works really good with outdoor stuff. Cities and large indoor locations not so much.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
Reeves's use of the volume in The Batman was about where it needed to be. Enough to make some location shooting easier to control (big open half built skyscraper) without resorting to it all the time and making everything look weirdly 'off'.
The problem with the Volume for interiors is we tend to get big open rooms with nothing in them. Ahsoka was TERRIBLE for this, everyone was just standing in areas with minimal "stuff" and it looked cheap and lazy. Compare that to a properly dressed set and it's night and day different.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I've been meaning to mention this but never found the right current thread to mention it in. This is exactly right. A lot of folks really that movie was 100% practical effects.
Zephyranthes
Member
Was the story of Obi-Wan even canonically important, though? That show went out of its way to pretend that there were meaningful stakes which anybody even remotely familiar with Star Wars would know weren't real, and every pre-existing character ended the series exactly where they began (because they had to, obviously). The only thing of even passing value was the explanation of how Leia and Obi-Wan knew each other, but I don't think we needed a whole series about the misadventures of an annoying child and the Inquisitor Loser Squad to clear up that minor detail.
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negator2vc
Member
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ManaByte
Rage Bait Youtuber
“Why the hell did Leia name her son Ben? She never talked to Obi-Wan in ANH!”
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Not surprised. Obi-Wan looked cheap.
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Unknown Soldier
Member
Disney isn't a company motivated by money, they are motivated by pushing their political agenda. Obi-Wan did nothing to advance the agenda, but Acolyte does. Makes perfect sense in that context.
What I want to know is why the shareholders are okay with this. I guess they are all-in on the agenda too and don't care about making money on their investment.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
None of that makes sense. Disney makes a lot of money... Just because YOU don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
And what IS this agenda? Don't say "you know damn well what it is!" With 'righteous' indignation... No we don't know because the definition of 'the agenda's changes with each person.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Haha. Dear lord.
Back to reality: I read that from here on out about 30% of the rest of the show is comprised of flashback sequences. If true I suppose they're going to get their money's worth out of Carrie Anne Moss - and I am sure she doesn't come cheap being as she's a huge attraction for both gen xr's and older millennials.
Back to reality: I read that from here on out about 30% of the rest of the show is comprised of flashback sequences. If true I suppose they're going to get their money's worth out of Carrie Anne Moss - and I am sure she doesn't come cheap being as she's a huge attraction for both gen xr's and older millennials.
ManaByte
Rage Bait Youtuber
Disney’s Entertainment Streaming Business Ekes Out Surprise Profit as Disney+ Core Subscribers Top 117 Million
Disney's entertainment streaming division, anchored by Disney+, scored its first profitable quarter for the first three months of 2024.
variety.com
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Gold Member
HoodWinked
Member
Looked it up and most of the shows they targeted $15 million per episode, Andor was a big jump but the budget was clear on screen they squeezed every dollar. The Acolyte being the most expensive per episode is a really dumb move strategically especially with how risk adverse the industry is.
Zephyranthes
Member
This is somewhat of a tangent, but I was trying to think of a good point of comparison for explaining why the writing in The Acolyte is bad, and I remembered one of the first scenes from The Batman where Bats is investigating the crime scene after the mayor's murder. Just before leaving, Batman silently looks over at the mayor's son, who looks back him for a few seconds before Batman walks away. Anybody who is watching a Batman movie is going to understand the significance of that moment, and the writers of that movie were competent enough to leave it at that and let the audience make the connection. The writers of The Acolyte would have made Batman walk over to the kid and explain how they're both orphans.
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DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I would counter that the difference is the general audience (not to mention most comic geeks) know the story of Batman, why that look is significant and what it means.
We know next to NOTHING of these new characters. Mae (that's the spelling in the CC as opposed to May) and Osha are completely blank slates for the audience and need more explanation. Especially considering Mae isn't completely evil (she let the kid and its father live at the bar) and Osha has so much anger and hate towards her sister. We THINK the Jedi made mistakes with these twins like starting the fire or something... And they DO seem to feel very guilty .. especially the meditating Jedi
Zephyranthes
Member
There are better ways of doing this than shoehorning in awkwardly delivered explanations, and extra demerits for when those explanations are being given to the person whose backstory they are explaining. These writers have no concept of subtext or non-verbal storytelling, and it's especially apparent when compared to something recent like Furiosa which is a master class in communicating details to the audience through character design, setting and body language.
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BigBeauford
Gold Member
I think I get where they are going with this.
Midichlorians are going to be analogous to mitochondria. Mitochondria is passed down from the mother, so they are going to do the same with midichlorians; hence "the force is female".
Midichlorians are going to be analogous to mitochondria. Mitochondria is passed down from the mother, so they are going to do the same with midichlorians; hence "the force is female".
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
What did they over explain in the 1st 2 Acolyte episodes?
ManaByte
Rage Bait Youtuber
Viewership beat the Shogun premiere.
thewaltdisneycompany.com
variety.com
'The Acolyte' Draws Biggest Series Premiere on Disney+ This Year - The Walt Disney Company
After taking a lightspeed trip to 4.8 million views in one day, "The Acolyte"’s premiere episode drove 11.1 million views globally based on five days of streaming, maintaining its status as the biggest series premiere on Disney+ of 2024.
thewaltdisneycompany.com
‘Shogun’ Hits 9 Million Views and Beats ‘The Bear’ Season 2 as FX’s Biggest Hulu Premiere
The debut of the FX limited series "Shogun" has proven to be a hit with audiences.
variety.com
Kilau
Member
Viewership beat the Shogun premiere.
'The Acolyte' Draws Biggest Series Premiere on Disney+ This Year - The Walt Disney Company
After taking a lightspeed trip to 4.8 million views in one day, "The Acolyte"’s premiere episode drove 11.1 million views globally based on five days of streaming, maintaining its status as the biggest series premiere on Disney+ of 2024.
‘Shogun’ Hits 9 Million Views and Beats ‘The Bear’ Season 2 as FX’s Biggest Hulu Premiere
The debut of the FX limited series "Shogun" has proven to be a hit with audiences.
Good to see that obscure IP performing so well against Shogun.
BadBurger
Many “Whelps”! Handle It!
Viewership beat the Shogun premiere.
'The Acolyte' Draws Biggest Series Premiere on Disney+ This Year - The Walt Disney Company
After taking a lightspeed trip to 4.8 million views in one day, "The Acolyte"’s premiere episode drove 11.1 million views globally based on five days of streaming, maintaining its status as the biggest series premiere on Disney+ of 2024.
‘Shogun’ Hits 9 Million Views and Beats ‘The Bear’ Season 2 as FX’s Biggest Hulu Premiere
The debut of the FX limited series "Shogun" has proven to be a hit with audiences.
Only 3m short of Ahsoka. Not bad for a show with all new characters, set in a timeline that only book and comic readers are likely aware of. Impressive.
I am perusing Reddit right now and people are hoping for a second season, but me, I hope we get a good enough story that this thing is open and shut - one and done.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
To be fair, the Craft Services budget probably had to be bumped up a tad.
Zephyranthes
Member
My issue is more with the "how" than the "what", but a lot of the exposition about Osha's background is delivered in a way that doesn't feel organic in the context of the conversations that are taking place. One example is when Yord is questioning her on the cargo ship and proceeds to recite to her the events of her childhood before joining the Order, as if she needed be reminded about it or something. Aside from how out of place it is, the whole exercise of informing the audience here is entirely unnecessary: not only do Osha's later flashbacks make it pretty clear what happened, but Sol explains the whole thing again when speaking with Jecki later in the same episode (a conversation where it made much more sense to discuss the subject, as Jecki didn't know and had a good reason to be asking about it).
Madflavor
Gold Member
How about scrap everything so they don't have to divide their resources, and focus on making one really good show? Put your absolute best people on it in terms of writing, directing and production. Set it far off into the future, perhaps a 1,000 years at least. Do away with the Jedi and Sith, and create new factions in their place. Perhaps have different parts of the galaxy be ruled over by Great Houses. Force Users can be Royalty/Nobles or Elite warriors in these houses. Some houses are good and some are evil. Make it a political war drama. Enough with the Jedi vs Sith, the bounty hunting, or Empire vs Rebels. It's time for something truly different. The High Republic and Old Republic are just different shades of the same shit.
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