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Tom Henderson - Sony’s marketing deal for CoD lasts until 2025 or 2026

Swift_Star

Banned
The great console exclusivity clause of... what country?

lol
That’s not what this is about lol. CoD is a product and if that product makes a lot of money of your competition, you can’t simply take it away buying it and forbidding your competitor to sell it. Please this is bigger than “console exclusivity”.
 

IntentionalPun

Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
That’s not what this is about lol. CoD is a product and if that product makes a lot of money of your competition, you can’t simply take it away buying it and forbidding your competitor to sell it. Please this is bigger than “console exclusivity”.
Literally done constantly on consoles.. pay to take content off the other consoles.

Anti-trust/anti-competitive concerns are about market share, and the tactics you used to get there.... there is no law against removing games from other consoles.
 
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Swift_Star

Banned
Damn 😲

Maybe that does lend credence to the idea the contract terms cover all CODs released during the period the contract covers? Question tho: have there been any COD games given away on XBLG Games with Gold?

You'd think if so but nothing for GamePass then why would ABK make that distinction since they're both services and they'd probably get more money with GamePass but who knows.



Swift_Star Swift_Star 's technically right in a sense though. If the FTC would view MS suddenly taking COD off of PlayStation as an abuse of their financial capacity as a company, meaning it could be seen as anti-competitive, then they would use that as a means of reconsidering the passing of the acquisition.

Keep in mind when MS announced this acquisition Sony lost $20 billion in market cap in a single day. They've may've gained that back but it just goes to show that any drastic moves by Microsoft with ABK as a result of this acquisition that could suddenly, drastically negatively impact direct competitors, could potentially be seen as anti-competitive. In particular, if those things involve disrupting the financial stability of the market with sudden removal of content leveraging their money, removal or limitation of content that otherwise would've remained present if the company stayed independent/non-acquired.

It's why MS has to be careful in how they handle very large IP like COD. That's the reason they're still going to keep the Warzone games multiplat. It's the reason why they'll probably also keep the individual releases multiplatform, and also bring COD to the Switch. And while they can't do anything too drastic that would suddenly drastically impact a competitor's bottom line (or be the equivalent of a company "price-fixing" in their own favor due to having a ton of cash to absorb losses that would kill a competitor, like what a lot of people think MS did vs. Netscape or Atari tried saying Sony was doing with the PS1), they can do things like tying DLC and certain Season bonuses to Xbox & GamePass, even exclusively.

Anything that can be easily viewed as them adding value to their ecosystem while leveraging those massive IP, in a way that doesn't involve removing expected value from competitor ecosystems, should be perfectly fine.
Well said. People have to see this beyond console war lens.
 

Swift_Star

Banned
Literally done constantly on consoles.. pay to take content off the other consoles.

Anti-trust/anti-competitive concerns are about market share, and the tactics you used to get there.... there is no law against removing games from other consoles.
Again, CoD is a product. It’s not only a game.
This is the same if Walmart bought unilever and made its products exclusive to their store. That would not fly. Please understand that this is not about games, it’s about products. Taking a product away from your competitor is exactly what these laws would act on.
 
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poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
Sony has no reason to pull out of the contract, but if they were to, then yes they would owe a very large amount of money. Probably a decent portion of the billion(s) that the contract was negotiated for.
?
Sony spends about $2.5 billion a year on advertising for the whole company. You think they are planning on spending nearly all of it on advertising Call of Duty?
 

Topher

Gold Member
Nobody knows. People simply assume that Sony's contract with Activision is the same as Sony's contract with Capcom. It's a rather bold assumption imo.

Not really. I would think it would be a standard marketing agreement not to allow the product you are advertising to be on a competing subscription service. What would be the point of having the marketing agreement at all?

What is Sony's contract with Capcom? I thought whatever came out was just speculation.

Look for one of R reksveks posts earlier in this thread and there is an image of pertinent portion of the contract. It isn't speculation.
 

baphomet

Member
?
Sony spends about $2.5 billion a year on advertising for the whole company. You think they are planning on spending nearly all of it on advertising Call of Duty?

For 3 years exclusive marketing rights of one of the highest selling games series of all time, of course it's not cheap.
 
Nobody knows. People simply assume that Sony's contract with Activision is the same as Sony's contract with Capcom. It's a rather bold assumption imo.

It's the only such contract we have access to, so it's the best thing we can go off of.

Microsoft should honor all agreements, and the aggressive statement made by Sony once the deal was announced suggested Sony indeed had some major deals in place. For all we know, Sony has a PS Plus day one deal for Modern Warfare 2 or other games that we don't know about. Imagine that one. That'd be most interesting lol. But would Activision make such a deal without being paid some serious bread? But what I do know is Sony released a super aggressive statement after the purchase was announced like they had a big stake in existing agreements, maybe bigger than we all know.

Nah I highly doubt Sony have a deal for MW2 in PS+ at launch. Maybe a 2-hour trail or pre-launch though as like a sampling, though, could be possible.

Activision's not going to put their biggest selling game on a subscription service Day 1 when Sony aren't putting their own 1P games in that same service Day 1.
 
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EDMIX

Member
Microsoft is risking $70 billion of their own money for this. Im sure their lawyers knew about any Sony contracts. All Im saying is that a) a $70 billion purchase doesnt make sense if you cant put it on gamepass let alone make it exclusive and b) you buy a company to do with it as you please. otherwise, they wouldve just signed new contracts.

Well...not really.

You said it yourself, MS knew about this deal before the purchase as such things need to be disclosed, if they still went thru the deal and are saying they will keep COD on PS even after, it means this whole exclusive gamepass thing likely was never the goal if they still bought it.

Its a massive money maker, they will make money each game sold, will make money for gamepass regardless of exclusive or not...I don't see what the big deal is. I don't care for COD, but I just don't see enough to say this was a bad deal and they won't make their money back. Considering it will stay multiplatform, they will do just fine as COD MTX make a fuck ton of money for them. They need many platforms for that to work. We can't use old ideas to logic this thing man, I agree that 15 years ago we would have this conversation and I'd even agree with you, but with how gaming is heading to subscription stuff, streaming, MS focusing on multiplatform for 2 gens now, its clear their end game isn't solely getting games on 1 thing anymore and more so making money everywhere or something. So I sorta can see where MS is heading with this and its a sound deal. I mean shit I'd never spend that much for COD, but this is about business. They are thinking long term and with COD now going into yet another generation moving massive units, we don't even see a sign of this series slowing down right how.

They make like 4.8 billion a year from MTX alone which is fucking wild, so everything else is icing on the top regarding that deal.
 

Gavon West

Spread's Cheeks for Intrusive Ads
That’s not how this works as I already explained. Taking away one of your biggest competitiors money maker doesn’t fly in the market. There are laws against that. This is not about opinions.
Either way, MS would keep getting their money from Sony, they literally have nothing to lose at all.
You're essentially stating it would be some kind of monopoly if they made the IP exclusive. That's not at all how it works. Microsoft doesn't need Sony's money. It's no different than the Bethesda merger.
 
It's the only such contract we have access to, so it's the best thing we can go off of.



Nah I highly doubt Sony have a deal for MW2 in PS+ at launch. Maybe a 2-hour trail or pre-launch though as like a sampling, though, could be possible.

Activision's not going to put their biggest selling game on a subscription service Day 1 when Sony aren't putting their own 1P games in that same service Day 1.

Good point.

Well, they will when Microsoft owns them and finishes honoring all contracts.
 

pasterpl

Member
I am surprised that people are surprised, cod is printing money every year, releasing games like cod on all platforms means more money for ms and faster return on investment before they will go fully exclusive.
 
I am surprised that people are surprised, cod is printing money every year, releasing games like cod on all platforms means more money for ms and faster return on investment before they will go fully exclusive.

I once favored the COD exclusive route for Xbox, but as of right now with the industry as it is, it makes full sense to keep bringing in all that money for the xbox division so as to throw it right back into making more exclusive games. It's a win, win.

Get that money on Diablo 4, Overwatch 2 multi-plat, the money coming from King with Candy Crush, the money from Warzone 2, MW2, COD Mobile, Warzone mobile which is coming, but make that Blizzard new IP exclusive to Xbox.

And consider what this means. Does it mean no new COD or any on Game Pass till 2025/2026? Does it prevent MW2 from going into Game Pass one year after its release? If it's anything like previous COD titles showing up in PS Plus it's entirely possible Sony could be able to hinder COD's availability on Game Pass well into 2028.

https://gamerant.com/call-of-duty-p... Call of Duty,experience and the Zombies mode.

If this is any indication.
 
They noticed.

Astro Bot got a 90 on metacritic and was called by some the “Mario 64 moment” for VR gaming.

So they made the director of the game, and of Team Asobi, Nicolas Doucet, head of Japan Studio. They then made Astro’s Playroom over the next 2 years, a free pack-in for every PS5 that got a great reception. So Hulst basically fired everyone at Japan Studio other than Team Asobi, making them their own full studio now. And more Astro’s on the way.

Hell he’s basically PlayStation’s mascot now.

XAvSF3m.jpg
I hope that's true and we see an actual 12+ hour Astrobot game soon.
 
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assurdum

Banned
Can I say something? Unbelievable how many suddenly care about COD or Activision games on playstation when until the MS deal very few give a fuck. At least it's my perception.
 
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Can I say something? Unbelievable how many suddenly care about COD or Activision games on playstation when until the MS deal very few give a fuck. At least it's my perception.

You ain't wrong. Cod has been a laughing stock amongst the hardcore crowd for ages. Remember anytime It showed up at a conference? Everyone would be so annoyed. Its no different to fifa. Same shit every year.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
You ain't wrong. Cod has been a laughing stock amongst the hardcore crowd for ages. Remember anytime It showed up at a conference? Everyone would be so annoyed. Its no different to fifa. Same shit every year.
A big difference between fifa and COD for me is there are actual people who like the campaign in COD. I know people who buy COD for the campaign.
 

GreatnessRD

Member
This is the perfect time for Sony to stop bluffin' and get a real team on a new SOCOM game. Can add a casual mode for the COD fans and have the rest of the game team tactical for the enthusiast.
 

M16

Member
I don't think the contract is as restrictive as some think such that it forbids gamepass. Microsoft even said they could work with Sony to even extend the deal on a multi year basis. People are assuming it's like the re8 one that leaked. It could very well be as simple as only providing beta/map/xp for marketing.
 
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Good point.

Well, they will when Microsoft owns them and finishes honoring all contracts.

Guess we'll see. It's very hard for me to picture MS eating into potential COD sales by putting the new releases on GamePass Day 1.

But, if it's like I've been thinking, and the ABK purchase is really something more on the whole of the company leveraging itself, they might be willing to write off that lost revenue by knowing they as a company can make back the spent costs with good annual net income, if it means potentially growing GamePass subscriber numbers exponentially.

I don't think the contract is as restrictive as some think such that it forbids gamepass. Microsoft even said they could work with Sony to even extend the deal on a multi year basis. People are assuming it's like the re8 one that leaked. It could very well be as simple as only providing beta/map/xp for marketing.

If it really is that simple then, it forces the question: why haven't we seen a COD on GamePass yet? The service has been out for five years, and MS made some big plays for 3P Day 1 games last year that they have seemingly stopped doing this year.

Considering the fact they've delayed their two biggest games for the year, and several other once-promised games for GP have been delayed as well (some indefinitely), why would they not attempt negotiating for some type of COD onto GamePass if they were in fact able to legally do so?

Also while I'm sure MS would entertain the possibility of Sony maintaining the COD co-marketing deal even past the point of MS owning ABK, in all probability I doubt they negotiate for anything even remotely close to what Sony has with ABK currently. There's simply zero chance they're going to allow Sony to get beta access, exclusive content etc. early going forward. Those are going to be things MS leverages for enticing COD players to Xbox and GamePass.
 

Leyasu

Banned
Guess we'll see. It's very hard for me to picture MS eating into potential COD sales by putting the new releases on GamePass Day 1.

But, if it's like I've been thinking, and the ABK purchase is really something more on the whole of the company leveraging itself, they might be willing to write off that lost revenue by knowing they as a company can make back the spent costs with good annual net income, if it means potentially growing GamePass subscriber numbers exponentially.



If it really is that simple then, it forces the question: why haven't we seen a COD on GamePass yet? The service has been out for five years, and MS made some big plays for 3P Day 1 games last year that they have seemingly stopped doing this year.

Considering the fact they've delayed their two biggest games for the year, and several other once-promised games for GP have been delayed as well (some indefinitely), why would they not attempt negotiating for some type of COD onto GamePass if they were in fact able to legally do so?

Also while I'm sure MS would entertain the possibility of Sony maintaining the COD co-marketing deal even past the point of MS owning ABK, in all probability I doubt they negotiate for anything even remotely close to what Sony has with ABK currently. There's simply zero chance they're going to allow Sony to get beta access, exclusive content etc. early going forward. Those are going to be things MS leverages for enticing COD players to Xbox and GamePass.
Perhaps the asking price for putting cod day one on gp meant that Microsoft would be paying nearly all/all/ or more than the game cost to make.

I imagine that it is the same with a lot of big 3rd party games. As they are not publishing them or getting them exclusively , why pay?

Having COD day one on gp for 6 months say would not be cheap
 

Jaybe

Member
If it really is that simple then, it forces the question: why haven't we seen a COD on GamePass yet? The service has been out for five years, and MS made some big plays for 3P Day 1 games last year that they have seemingly stopped doing this year.

Considering the fact they've delayed their two biggest games for the year, and several other once-promised games for GP have been delayed as well (some indefinitely), why would they not attempt negotiating for some type of COD onto GamePass if they were in fact able to legally do so?

Those are my thoughts as well. Something must be in Sony’s contract preventing COD from going on Game Pass. You’d think Phil would have offered up a truck of money for even older games like MW 2019 or BO Cold War to have them on Game Pass. But literally no COD games ever.
 
I am surprised that people are surprised, cod is printing money every year, releasing games like cod on all platforms means more money for ms and faster return on investment before they will go fully exclusive.

I once favored the COD exclusive route for Xbox, but as of right now with the industry as it is, it makes full sense to keep bringing in all that money for the xbox division so as to throw it right back into making more exclusive games. It's a win, win.

Get that money on Diablo 4, Overwatch 2 multi-plat, the money coming from King with Candy Crush, the money from Warzone 2, MW2, COD Mobile, Warzone mobile which is coming, but make that Blizzard new IP exclusive to Xbox.

And consider what this means. Does it mean no new COD or any on Game Pass till 2025/2026? Does it prevent MW2 from going into Game Pass one year after its release?
Damn 😲

Maybe that does lend credence to the idea the contract terms cover all CODs released during the period the contract covers? Question tho: have there been any COD games given away on XBLG Games with Gold?

You'd think if so but nothing for GamePass then why would ABK make that distinction since they're both services and they'd probably get more money with GamePass but who knows.



Swift_Star Swift_Star 's technically right in a sense though. If the FTC would view MS suddenly taking COD off of PlayStation as an abuse of their financial capacity as a company, meaning it could be seen as anti-competitive, then they would use that as a means of reconsidering the passing of the acquisition.

Keep in mind when MS announced this acquisition Sony lost $20 billion in market cap in a single day. They've may've gained that back but it just goes to show that any drastic moves by Microsoft with ABK as a result of this acquisition that could suddenly, drastically negatively impact direct competitors, could potentially be seen as anti-competitive. In particular, if those things involve disrupting the financial stability of the market with sudden removal of content leveraging their money, removal or limitation of content that otherwise would've remained present if the company stayed independent/non-acquired.

It's why MS has to be careful in how they handle very large IP like COD. That's the reason they're still going to keep the Warzone games multiplat. It's the reason why they'll probably also keep the individual releases multiplatform, and also bring COD to the Switch. And while they can't do anything too drastic that would suddenly drastically impact a competitor's bottom line (or be the equivalent of a company "price-fixing" in their own favor due to having a ton of cash to absorb losses that would kill a competitor, like what a lot of people think MS did vs. Netscape or Atari tried saying Sony was doing with the PS1), they can do things like tying DLC and certain Season bonuses to Xbox & GamePass, even exclusively.

Anything that can be easily viewed as them adding value to their ecosystem while leveraging those massive IP, in a way that doesn't involve removing expected value from competitor ecosystems, should be perfectly fine.


The FTC to my knowledge has no such power as granted by congress. Once it's approved they can't reconsider and change their mind after the fact. The EU does, however, I think.

Also, what Microsoft does from 2023 to 2028 is different from what they may or could do from 2029 and beyond. Microsoft I suspect could very easily leave things multi-platform and then years down the road switch it up as market realities change. Many things could cause the switch, increased expense and difficulty producing on so many systems, just about any excuse could fly at that stage because they maintained the status quo for years before the change. So I will say, never say never, but in the case of Call of Duty "unless something drastic happens" Microsoft should never take it off Playstation. Keep bringing in all the money it brings in and put it all towards improving the Xbox exclusive games library and other improvements.
 

johnjohn

Member
Can I say something? Unbelievable how many suddenly care about COD or Activision games on playstation when until the MS deal very few give a fuck. At least it's my perception.
Activision is the biggest publisher in the industry and CoD is the biggest multiplat franchise in the industry. People always cared deeply about them. People took them being independent for granted, but now that MS owns them of course there's going to be endless discussions about it.
 
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Bridges

Member
This deal was made way before Game Pass was even a thing. Unless the contract was renegotiated at some point, I'm assuming this does not prevent them from still releasing the games on Game Pass. Of course I'm no lawyer so I could be wrong.

Even if it were the case, getting every Blizzard release on day 1 Gamepass is nothing to scoff at either, they didn't dump all that money into this acquisition for no gain whatsoever.
 

baphomet

Member
Exactly. As thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best said a few posts higher, if MS was able to get any COD on game pass, why haven’t they done a single one, even from the back catalog.

Well they don't own them yet obviously, so they can't just put them on for that reason. Once they do you'll likely see all of the older ones on there.

After 2 years most people are no longer playing the multiplayer, buying battle packs, buying skins, etc. So Microsoft would have no reason currently/previously to pay Activision for a game on game pass that isn't going to have a bunch of additional in game sales.
 

Corndog

Banned
I frankly dont know. I do know that gamers switch console loyalties every gen. They understand full well what exclusives means. We had MS own timed exclusive DLC rights for an entire gen before Sony took over the DLC rights and there was no outrage. People get that its just business.

I dont know. I wish I could make sense of this. I just cant. I see that UBisoft is willing to sell itself for just $8 billion and Im baffled that Sony paid $3.5 billion for one studio and maybe two IPs. I am baffled that MS paid $70 billion for COD knowing full well they couldnt put it on gamepass, let alone make it exclusive for pretty much the remainder of this generation. If the idea was to buy Activision studios for their expertise and IPs then clearly Ubisoft was much cheaper. 10x cheaper with even more IPs and studios. If the idea was to buy Activision to pressure Sony into allowing gamepass or to knock Sony out of the console market then why honor the contracts? If you are going to war then go to war, why be afraid of a lawsuit? If the goal was to get more gamepass content, why invest $70 billion in publisher that makes one console game a year and then not have that game on gamepass when Ubisoft couldve given you 3-4 games a year for just $8 billion. Again, Im trying to understand the purchase. I dont know why MS did this and Im trying to figure out which one of these reasons makes sense and I cant make sense of any of them.\

EDIT: Maybe its the long term move by Satya who wants to take over whatever he can before Tencent takes over everything, but again, Ubisoft for $8 billion, Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix Montreal studios went for just $300 million, Capcom can be had for $5 billion, Square Enix's market cap is $6 billion. They couldve even acquired all these companies and even take2 for $18 billion before they bought zynga and still have $40 billion to spare.
The crystal dynamics deal seems like a steal.
 

johnjohn

Member
I frankly dont know. I do know that gamers switch console loyalties every gen. They understand full well what exclusives means. We had MS own timed exclusive DLC rights for an entire gen before Sony took over the DLC rights and there was no outrage. People get that its just business.

I dont know. I wish I could make sense of this. I just cant. I see that UBisoft is willing to sell itself for just $8 billion and Im baffled that Sony paid $3.5 billion for one studio and maybe two IPs. I am baffled that MS paid $70 billion for COD knowing full well they couldnt put it on gamepass, let alone make it exclusive for pretty much the remainder of this generation. If the idea was to buy Activision studios for their expertise and IPs then clearly Ubisoft was much cheaper. 10x cheaper with even more IPs and studios. If the idea was to buy Activision to pressure Sony into allowing gamepass or to knock Sony out of the console market then why honor the contracts? If you are going to war then go to war, why be afraid of a lawsuit? If the goal was to get more gamepass content, why invest $70 billion in publisher that makes one console game a year and then not have that game on gamepass when Ubisoft couldve given you 3-4 games a year for just $8 billion. Again, Im trying to understand the purchase. I dont know why MS did this and Im trying to figure out which one of these reasons makes sense and I cant make sense of any of them.\

EDIT: Maybe its the long term move by Satya who wants to take over whatever he can before Tencent takes over everything, but again, Ubisoft for $8 billion, Crystal Dynamics and Square Enix Montreal studios went for just $300 million, Capcom can be had for $5 billion, Square Enix's market cap is $6 billion. They couldve even acquired all these companies and even take2 for $18 billion before they bought zynga and still have $40 billion to spare.
Activision and COD make more money than everything else you listed combined. It's not really hard to understand..... Like you can't be serious.
 
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That's not evidence of anything. MS is in the driver's seat here, if they want COD in Game Pass day one it will be there.
Exactly. Technically Sony could be stubborn and just say no to every proposal, but Jimbo isn't stupid. He wants to collaborate. They'll figure something out.
 
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