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[rofif]

Sony's decision to base the VRR range from 48-120 Hz rather than 40-120 Hz surely makes the unlocked 40 fps / 120 Hz modes potentially flawed if a game drops below 48 fps at which point VRR would not be working and the game would exhibit stuttering (and even screen tearing, eeek!) in the 41-47 fps range?

I really don't understand why Sony have set the lower limit at 48 instead of 40 Hz? It is a limitation of their TVs or something?

I tested a number of Ubisoft games last night on my PS5, always a good publisher to use for screen tearing since almost *all* of their games have this issue to a lesser or greater degree!!! Anyway, Far Cry 6, Watch Dogs: Legion (60 fps mode) and Assassin's Creed: Valhalla all appear to run smoothly now without screen tearing but I did spot what I thought was once instance of screen tearing in Far Cry 6 but it may have just been a camera stutter.

It doesn't work that way. It's not SONY decision on the console. It's a TV decision.
You get your full vrr range from your TV when PS5 runs in 120hz container.
But many games only run in 60hz container. Then you cannot have LFC at all since doubling of the hz would go over 60hz which console is set to 60hz.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

Yeh were going to need DF, NX Gamer and Vincent from HDTV Test to figure it all out but regardless, the results will be interesting in light of everything said so far.



It doesn't make games look better.

Worse actually especially LED TV's with FALD.

 

[01011001]

Seems like the PS5 doesn't support LFC for frame rates that dip below 48fps.

There is no working VRR for elden ring in quaility mode on PS5.

LFC only works at framerates that are below 50% of the Refresh of the screen.

at 120hz LFC can kick in at below 60fps
at 60hz LFC can kick in at below 30fps

Elden Ring is almost always above 30fps and on PS5 you can not force 120hz.
if you play the game on Xbox you can use VRR in quality mode, but only if you have the console set to 120hz, as the console forces 120hz in every game, effectively doubling every frame, which means the console will output an above 30fps container at all times, which means LFC works without issue there.

basically on Xbox if Elden Ring runs at 32fps, the console will actually output 64fps and your TV will have no issue running at 64hz,
and if it should drop below 30fps to say 28fps, the console doubles that to 56fps and that is also no issue for any VRR TV.

the issue really is here that you can not force the PS5 to output 120hz.
this can also be an issue in performance mode for Elden Ring as seen here where even on PS5 it drops below the 48fps window that most VRR TVs support


Sony should therefore implement a "force 120hz" option that works like the 120hz mode on Xbox, so that in games like Elden Ring you can make use of LFC to smooth out the frametimes.

 

[Gambit2483]

Don't expect devs to use VRR as some kind of performance crutch...at least not until VRR becomes an industry standard and is supported by more than 10% of the Displays/Monitors on the market

 

[ShakenG]

Should be visuals, performance or uncapped.

If your system detects a vrr tv uncapped should always be the default.

Why choose if your system can detect the tv and always perform best under your circumstances?

Seems like you want to limit yourself for fun.

Yes, i should have added a 3rd, uncapped for VRR

 

[ZywyPL]

I’m kinda annoyed that we have way too many options now.

30fps fidelity (4K)
60fps lower resolution
40fps 120Hz
VRR fidelity uncapped
VRR 120 uncapped

I truly wish that was the case for all, or at least most games out there, the more options the always better, eveyone has a different TV, some have 60 some have 120Hz, some with, some without VRR, so the audience is more fragmented than ever, so IMO it's a very good consumer approach to satisfy as much consumers as possible. And I honestly blame Sony for being seriously LTTP, I can only imagine how many more games would support uncapped framerate if the tech was available for the devs from day one across both platforms.

 

[Rea]

I really don't understand why Sony have set the lower limit at 48 instead of 40 Hz? It is a limitation of their TVs or something?

If a game targeting 60 fps then dropping under 48fps. In which case you should blame the devs, not Sony. And also VRR range of 48Hz -120Hz is a standard of Hdmi 2.1 VRR.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

Based on the IQ gap between the existing fidelity and performance modes, I wonder if there's enough performance to maintain 40+ fps while retaining fidelity mode iq.

Just drop the resolution from 2160p to 1800p. I guess this would be enough. 1800p still looks sharp on a 4K screen.

Or they could raise the resolution for checkerboarding. Afaik its 1800cb right now. Raise that to 2160cb like in Horizon 1 or Days Gone, which both have a sharp picture with this solution in comparison to Horizon 2

 

[Shmunter]

LG C1, Elden Ring is very smooth now with VRR enabled. Can confirm though that PS4 games do not support VRR. The TV switches to VRR automatically when you start a PS5 game, but this doesn't happen with PS4 games even with "apply to unsupported games" enabled. Why cant they just enable it with an on/off toggle systemwide like series X? Doesn't make sense.

Suspected there will be a gotcha. Oh well, time to put last gen to bed anyway - more focus on ps5 only is a good thing.

Either way, ps4 games run locked in whatever mode they may be so it’s moot.

 

[solidus12]

Holy shit. Miles Morales in fidelity at 120hz + VRR seems higher than 40fps.

It’s so smooth and it looks so good and crisp

Now imagine what Insomniac is going to do with Spider-Man 2 and Wolverine !!!

 

[Shmunter]

I called it. It felt way smoother than 60 fps. I thought it felt like 120 fps but i will take 100 with vrr.

This is brilliant tbh. I have been bitching about PS5 not being maxed out since launch. All these capped framerates were clearly keeping the PS5 from hitting their full potential. Im like if the PS4 can do 1080p 30 fps with 1.8 tflops then the 10 tflops RDNA 2.0 GPU with 1.5x IPC performance gains should offer 15 PS4 tflops of performance, and now we are finally seeing that in Spiderman. I believe Death Stranding was the only game that had an unlocked native 4k mode and it would routinely hit 60 fps with drops only in particle heavy cutscenes. Kojima once again, ahead of his time.

ND needs to release unlocked framerate modes for Uncharted now. There is no way PS5 can only do native 4k at 30 fps for a 1080p 30 fps PS4 game. I bet its in the mid 40s at the very least.

Lets hope BP also releases an unlocked framerate mode for Demon Souls for the native 4k version or a 1800p 40 fps mode.

The unlocking of framerates should be standard now you’d hope. However not at the cost of optimisation for locked 60.

 

[01011001]

Holy shit. Miles Morales in fidelity at 120hz + VRR seems higher than 40fps.

It’s so smooth and it looks so good and crisp

Now imagine what Insomniac is going to do with Spider-Man 2 and Wolverine !!!

it's 50fps on average but according to my VRR info screen it is really unstable, so you get ~50fps but it really goes quickly to 60 and down to 40 fps at times

in general it feels better than locked 40fps tho for sure.

but it makes sense that they locked it before as without VRR it would be really bad unlocked

 

[solidus12]

Could they increase the bandwidth of the HDMI port to have full RGB in HDR?

If they plan to have 8k video signal, they would need a higher bandwidth than 32gb/s right?

 

[Riky]

Could they increase the bandwidth of the HDMI port to have full RGB in HDR?

If they plan to have 8k video signal, they would need a higher bandwidth than 32gb/s right?

The maximum would be 8k at 60fps, 8 bit colour depth and 4:2:0 chroma. After that it would need to be unlocked.

 

[DJ12]

it's 50fps on average but according to my VRR info screen it is really unstable, so you get ~50fps but it really goes quickly to 60 and down to 40 fps at times

in general it feels better than locked 40fps tho for sure.

but it makes sense that they locked it before as without VRR it would be really bad unlocked

What tv do you have, the fps counter on lgs and Samsung don't work in 120 mode at less than 60 fps according to what I've seen on youtube. (Can confirm first hand it doesn't work on samsungs)

 

[01011001]

What tv do you have, the fps counter on lgs and Samsung don't work in 120 mode at less than 60 fps according to what I've seen on youtube. (Can confirm first hand it doesn't work on samsungs)

I have a Samsung Q70 from 2019.
if I press the Enter button on the remote I see the real time refresh on the top left.

while playing the quality mode in Spider-Man the refresh hovers at around 100hz with drops to 85~ and spikes all the way to 119hz (it's rounded down so 119 = 120hz basically)

since it's using low framerate compensation that meansnyou have to half that to get the framerate.
so 100hz = 50fps

I can record a quick vid when I have time to demonstrate

 

[rofif]

Just drop the resolution from 2160p to 1800p. I guess this would be enough. 1800p still looks sharp on a 4K screen.

Or they could raise the resolution for checkerboarding. Afaik its 1800cb right now. Raise that to 2160cb like in Horizon 1 or Days Gone, which both have a sharp picture with this solution in comparison to Horizon 2

Not really. 1800p looks soft by itself. Needs chckb or some other aa technique

 

[DJ12]

I have a Samsung Q70 from 2019.
if I press the Enter button on the remote I see the real time refresh on the top left.

while playing the quality mode in Spider-Man the refresh hovers at around 100hz with drops to 85~ and spikes all the way to 119hz (it's rounded down so 119 = 120hz basically)

since it's using low framerate compensation that meansnyou have to half that to get the framerate.
so 100hz = 50fps

I can record a quick vid when I have time to demonstrate

Yeah I know it works in those modes, it's the fact you stated fidelity mode was displaying 50fps

It doesn't on my qn95a, it's either shows 120 or 85 for fidelity mode.

 

[01011001]

Yeah I know it works in those modes, it's the fact you stated fidelity mode was displaying 50fps

It doesn't on my qn95a, it's either shows 120 or 85 for fidelity mode.

ok, I just wanted to record the video on my phone, and I established in another thread that I had to switch around HDMI ports due to handshaking issues on the PS5.
now when I play fidelity mode my refresh jumps up to 119hz, and down to 74hz, 60hz and 48hz rapidly and I have noticeable stutters this consoles seems to REALLY have some issues with handshaking, at least on my HDMI2.0 TV.

the Xbox SX works without issue on any HDMi input I tried it on. and I just tried the PS5 on all inputs and it only works either with the old cable in HDMI1 (but that has the issues mentioned above) or with the Xbox SX cable in HDMI1 (where I didn't have the stutter issues)

running in performance mode works without issue in the current config, so I get ~90hz, +/-10

it's really weird. I'm going to try different HDMI cables later, but what seems to be the issue with my current setup is that Low Framerate Compensation is not working correctly for me

 

[RoadHazard]

Pretty sure it's a hardware limitation.

Which is crazy if true. Why would they let such a big oversight through? Not like this stuff wasn't known in 2019 or whenever the final hardware decisions were made.

 

[Shmunter]

But they didn't, read the original quote very carefully, if you don't have VRR you don't go over 60fps, I said in the quote it enables the developer to offer it, not that it in itself boosts it.
The fact is without VRR on that game you are capped at 60fps, fact.

Anyway back on topic.

Returnal does support it, the only PS5 game so far that has come up "FIXED" on my LG set as in doesn't support it is Forbidden West.

VRR enables developer to enable VRR? Thank you Einstein

 

[GymWolf]

But they didn't, read the original quote very carefully, if you don't have VRR you don't go over 60fps, I said in the quote it enables the developer to offer it, not that it in itself boosts it.
The fact is without VRR on that game you are capped at 60fps, fact.

Anyway back on topic.

Returnal does support it, the only PS5 game so far that has come up "FIXED" on my LG set as in doesn't support it is Forbidden West.

Vrr works on returnal? Have you tried and see any difference? That one had constant frame drops during combat.

 

[Shmunter]

Just tested a bunch of games on my LG CX. Using the green button to pull up the framerate menu that showed if VRR is enabled or Fixed.

VRR Supported Games:
- Doom Eternal
- Astrobot
- Spiderman remaster
- Cyberpunk 2077
- Uncharted PS5 remaster.
- Final Fantasy 7 PS5 remaster
- Matrix Awakens - However since the framedrops occur below 30, it does not smooth out the framerate while driving.

Not Supported:
- Horizon Forbidden West
- SOTC remake PS4 version
- Crash insane trilogy PS4 version

So no VRR in BC games unfortunately.

The only installed game i couldnt test was returnal because the disc is missing from the box. Damn kids. But it seems everything except for Horizon is supported.

Check the bin for the disc snapped in half

 

[Shmunter]

Vrr works on returnal? Have you tried and see any difference? That one had constant frame drops during combat.

I’m surprised people say that about Returnal. Never noticed a blip amongst the orgy of light and sound being mainlined into my brain.

 

[azertydu91]

Vrr works on returnal? Have you tried and see any difference? That one had constant frame drops during combat.

I tried it on Returnal and it seems to work but I did not have constant drops before so I just stress tested it....Doombringer In a room full of ennemies that exploded and dropped acid on death and it was still fluid .So I think it works.

 

[azertydu91]

I’m surprised people say that about Returnal. Never noticed a blip amongst the orgy of light and sound being mainlined into my brain.

Yep Returnal was pretty solid for me too (except once in a room full of ennemies, particles and chaos) that new Tower addon got me hooked back in the game.

 

[GymWolf]

I’m surprised people say that about Returnal. Never noticed a blip amongst the orgy of light and sound being mainlined into my brain.

Different people have different sensibility about frame drops.

 

[Riky]

VRR enables developer to enable VRR? Thank you Einstein

It's no problem, I'm here to educate.
VRR enables developer to enable a playable 60fps+ mode.

 

[azertydu91]

Different people have different sensibility about frame drops.

It may also be linked to how you play because I think that most of the times where I had drops was when I was close to ennemies with lots of particles etc... But since I'm more of a distant player I gues I had less of them.Maybe when you are close and the Alpha effect start to kick as it seems problematic this gen for both consoles.

 

[RydarGaf]

That’s weirdly said.
It’s up to you monitor. But you need to be able to double the hz in lfc.
Elden ring rings in a 60hz container. So you can do 35fps as 70hz

Check your math man

 

[Shmunter]

Different people have different sensibility about frame drops.

I’m pretty sensitive to framerate tho and being tickled

 

[GymWolf]

It may also be linked to how you play because I think that most of the times where I had drops was when I was close to ennemies with lots of particles etc... But since I'm more of a distant player I gues I had less of them.Maybe when you are close and the Alpha effect start to kick as it seems problematic this gen for both consoles.

Yeah i used melee a fuckton so i was always in the middle of the fight.

I usually notice framedrops on supposedly locked framerates like demons remake, spidey or horizon, but returnal was by far the most noticeable one, it was far from locked 99% of times like the other examples.

Not something super disturbing, but disturbing enough during fast paced combat.

 

[azertydu91]

Yeah i used melee a fuckton so i was always in the middle of the fight.

I usually notice framedrops on supposedly locked framerates like demons remake, spidey or horizon, but returnal was by far the most noticeable one, it was far from locked 99% of times like the other examples.

Not something super disturbing, but disturbing enough during fast paced combat.

Yeah that may be the answer there.I find melee serviceable but frustrating in this game (she too often dashed to the wrong ennemy so I got tired)It is probably linked to the alpha effect.

 

[Riky]

Vrr works on returnal? Have you tried and see any difference? That one had constant frame drops during combat.

I only checked what was working with the counter, sorry.

 

[GymWolf]

I’m pretty sensitive to framerate tho and being tickled

You can't be sensitive and not noticing returnal framedrops dude.

The game slow down to the 40s, it is not a 1-2 frame drops, and without vrr a frame drop that big is super noticeable unless you overstimate how sensitive you are.

And tbh, very sensitive people is also annoyed by 1-3 frames drop, this is why people builds pc to play with 100% rock solid framerate.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah that may be the answer there.I find melee serviceable but frustrating in this game (she too often dashed to the wrong ennemy so I got tired)It is probably linked to the alpha effect.

Melee is pretty op tho.

Many people who had hard times with the game was because they avoided melee.

 

[azertydu91]

Melee is pretty op tho.

Many people who had hard times with the game was because they avoided melee.

Oh no don't worry I completed the game in about 10 hours but in a flock of ennemies I tend to avoid melee as It won't always connect to the specific enemy I'm aiming at.But other than that for single ennemies it is great especially those turrets, I love to slalm between their shots to melee them it is very satisfying.

 

[RydarGaf]

OH 100% THIS !!!
It's a console. I want to GO. PLAY. I've got pc for settings.
Now I have to watch digital foundry for the analysis of framerate and graphics because naming on these bad graphical modes is too obtuse.
and on top of that with vrr - some games run in 60hz container, other in 120hz. Those running in 60hz container probably vrr only works 40 or 48hz up to 60. 120hz container, it's 20 or 40 or 48hz up to 120. And then there is changing gamma and stuff when running with vrr on oleds.

Don't get me wrong - vrr is universally good. At least it makes drops less noticeable and stutter free. Elden ring 57fps is now amazing. But quality mode sucks ass still. It should be 30fps locked probably or ideally RUNNING in 120hz container

The PS5 hardware itself locks the vrr range 48hz to 120hz regardless of display.. it does not support LFC.

 

[Shmunter]

You can't be sensitive and not noticing returnal framedrops dude.

The game slow down to the 40s, it is not a 1-2 frame drops, and without vrr a frame drop that big is super noticeable unless you overstimate how sensitive you are.

And tbh, very sensitive people is also annoyed by 1-3 frames drop, this is why people builds pc to play with 100% rock solid framerate.

I was pretty shit at the game to be honest, gave it away in the end.

Think the insane amount of things going on enacted some kind of biological VRR in my brain not being able to take in dips on top of dealing with all the other shit.

 

[rofif]

Check your math man

WHAT?!
35fps x2 is 70hz. So that's why lfc is not working in 60hz container....
check your math

The PS5 hardware itself locks the vrr range 48hz to 120hz regardless of display.. it does not support LFC.

Does it have to? I expected it to be hardware agnostic

 

[RydarGaf]

It doesn't work that way. It's not SONY decision on the console. It's a TV decision.
You get your full vrr range from your TV when PS5 runs in 120hz container.
But many games only run in 60hz container. Then you cannot have LFC at all since doubling of the hz would go over 60hz which console is set to 60hz.

Vrr on PS5 doesn't work way like it does on other platforms bro.
Sony literally says in their system settings TV specs page that VRR is 48hz to 120hz at the HARDWARE level.

Doesn't matter If display range is 20hz to 120hz or 40hz to 120hz. The vrr on PS5 will have the 48hz to 120hz limit.

For example on the previous generation xbox hardware, ie xbox one X. The vrr range was locked to 40hz to 60hz by xbox hardware. My PC monitor display vrr which goes all the way up too 144hz literally shut off vrr if I tried to play games in 120hz mode. It came on only if I set it to 60zh refresh rate. The ps5 works similar to this but better.

 

[azertydu91]

I was pretty shit at the game to be honest, gave it away in the end.

Think the insane amount of things going on enacted some kind of biological VRR in my brain not being able to take in dips on top of the other shit.

That's exactly why I love the game especially during those moments when you are just playing without thinking just by pure instinct.It is a great game to let all problems go especially for someone that has some attention troubles and so far I found the VRR working on this game but this might be a perception bias it probably needs more confirmation.

 

[rofif]

Vrr on PS5 doesn't work way like it does on other platforms bro.
Sony literally says in their system settings TV specs page that VRR is 48hz to 120hz at the HARDWARE level.

Doesn't matter If display range is 20hz to 120hz or 40hz to 120hz. The vrr on PS5 will have the 48hz to 120hz limit.

For example on the previous generation xbox hardware, ie xbox one X. The vrr range was locked to 40hz to 60hz by xbox hardware. My PC monitor display vrr which goes all the way up too 144hz literally shut off vrr if I tried to play games in 120hz mode. It came on only if I set it to 60zh refresh rate. The ps5 works similar to this but better.

That sucks.
So if I am running a 30fps game in 60hz container (like I did uncharted 4 remaster yesterday)... it still says vrr is enabled in lg c1 menu.
So what actually happens? vrr is dropped and vsync engaged?

 

[RydarGaf]

WHAT?!
35fps x2 is 70hz. So that's why lfc is not working in 60hz container....
check your math


Does it have to? I expected it to be hardware agnostic

Th way you wrote previ I us comment seemed to suggest that you could double the number 35 into 60hz.

Maybe it's miscommunication on my part...who knows

 

[Rea]

it does not support LFC.

Source?

 

[GymWolf]

Oh no don't worry I completed the game in about 10 hours but in a flock of ennemies I tend to avoid melee as It won't always connect to the specific enemy I'm aiming at.But other than that for single ennemies it is great especially those turrets, I love to slalm between their shots to melee them it is very satisfying.

I took my sweet time with the game, i don't remember if i put 20 or 30 hours on it.

 

[RydarGaf]

That sucks.
So if I am running a 30fps game in 60hz container (like I did uncharted 4 remaster yesterday)... it still says vrr is enabled in lg c1 menu.
So what actually happens? vrr is dropped and vsync engaged?

Vrr isn't working correctly on PS5 on anything below 48hz regardless of what the display is telling you.
It might be on....but that's all.

vrr is useless for locked 30fps games anyway

 

[01011001]

That sucks.
So if I am running a 30fps game in 60hz container (like I did uncharted 4 remaster yesterday)... it still says vrr is enabled in lg c1 menu.
So what actually happens? vrr is dropped and vsync engaged?

VRR should work if the game drops below half the refresh of your current output. a game like Uncharted 4 normally should effectively send 60 frames to your TV no matter the mode, so if the game drops to 29fps what gets actually send out SHOULD be 58fps and therefore should be a 58hz signal to your TV.

so in theory it should work.

BUT I have written about this above, Low Framerate Compensation seem to have issues. I had no issue getting a smooth presentation in the quality mode in Spider-Man Remastered when using a certain cable in a certain HDMI port, but currently, with a different cable, while VRR works flawlessly without Low Framerate Compensation, it now has jitters when low Framerate Compensation is active.

this results in extremely rapid jumps from 120hz down to 48hz and up again.

this was not an issue with the cable that came with the Series X when I connected it to the the PS5 and the same HDMI port.

the Xbox has no issues on any port, but the PS5 is extremely picky and refuses proper handshaking with certain cable+port combinations.

so if anyone has issues with LFC, a cable or HDMI port change might fix that.

so far I really think there's something wrong with the PS5's VRR support, at least on my specific TV model, since the Series X and One X before it never had such issues

 

[azertydu91]

I took my sweet time with the game, i don't remember if i put 20 or 30 hours on it.

I've always liked fast paced games so I got hooked on this game, it reminds me of shmups.I wanted to go further faster etc...

 

[yamaci17]

Vrr isn't working correctly on PS5 on anything below 48hz regardless of what the display is telling you.
It might be on....but that's all.

vrr is useless for locked 30fps games anyway

it's not

a VRR'ed 30 FPS with disabled VSYNC is greatly better in terms of input lag and snappiness

vsync feels enormously laggy compared to vrr'ed 30 fps

30 fps + 120 hz 1/4 vsync

30 fps + 120 hz + vrr

of course, numbers may be meaningless for you. you have to see and FEEL yourself to understand how big of an impact this has.