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Wheel of Time

Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
I will sacrifice immersion for actor skill 10/10 times. But in this universe 3000 years ago all races were jumbled everywhere in the breaking. I’m not sure if 3000 years is enough for racial homogeneity to develop, but the lore backs up a diverse universe. And really Edmonds field in episode 1 is done for a loooooong time so whatever, 1 episode won’t matter in the long run.

The best movie of 2021 was The Green Knight, with Dev Patel playing the whitest of all white people in the whitest of all white universes, Sir Gawain of Authorian legend. And this movie was great because Dev Patel is a fantastic actor.
 
Batiman

Batiman

Banned
jason10mm said:
But most humans had no idea what Gandalf was. If he looked radically different from the particular population he monitored it would hinder the mission. There were other wizards assigned to other parts of M-E that yes, probably looked a bit different.

In the early ages with the elves and Numendor I don't recall if he hid his origins so much, so his appearance was probably less relevant.
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Everyone seemed to know who he was. At least the movies portrayed that.
 
Batiman

Batiman

Banned
Kimahri said:
How do you blend in like an old geezer doing fireworks if you look radically different from eveyone else? Of course it matters what he looks like, and like stated above, if Middle Earth had been a version of Africa, Gandalf would and should be a black man. Ever been a tall white man in Japan? No? Try it, that's basically what happens when you don't try to blend in.
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I was never under the impression he ever tried to blend in. From all six movies at least. Everyone seemed to know who he was off the bat. Like a living Jesus lol
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
Batiman said:
Everyone seemed to know who he was. At least the movies portrayed that.
Click to expand...
Well, the movies focus almost exclusively on a small handful of the most informed people in M-E. But my impression on reading the books is that while people knew Gandalf had a level of magic (ranging from street illusion to full on sorcerer) they had little to no idea about the real mythic pantheon of M-E. There isn't really any actual religious stuff in LOTR but no one treats Gandalf like a literal prophet of God.

Here is a quote for perspective:
Denethor looked indeed much more like a great wizard than Gandalf did, more kingly, beautiful, and powerful; and older. Yet by a sense other than sight Pippin perceived that Gandalf had the greater power and the deeper wisdom, and a majesty that was veiled. And he was older, far older. ‘How much older?’ he wondered, and then he thought how odd it was that he had never thought about it before. Treebeard had said something about wizards, but even then he had not thought of Gandalf as one of them. What was Gandalf? In what far time and place did he come into the world, and when would he leave it? And then his musings broke off, and he saw that Denethor and Gandalf still looked each other in the eye, as if reading the other’s mind. But it was Denethor who first withdrew his gaze.
 
Batiman

Batiman

Banned
jason10mm said:
Well, the movies focus almost exclusively on a small handful of the most informed people in M-E. But my impression on reading the books is that while people knew Gandalf had a level of magic (ranging from street illusion to full on sorcerer) they had little to no idea about the real mythic pantheon of M-E. There isn't really any actual religious stuff in LOTR but no one treats Gandalf like a literal prophet of God.

Here is a quote for perspective:
Denethor looked indeed much more like a great wizard than Gandalf did, more kingly, beautiful, and powerful; and older. Yet by a sense other than sight Pippin perceived that Gandalf had the greater power and the deeper wisdom, and a majesty that was veiled. And he was older, far older. ‘How much older?’ he wondered, and then he thought how odd it was that he had never thought about it before. Treebeard had said something about wizards, but even then he had not thought of Gandalf as one of them. What was Gandalf? In what far time and place did he come into the world, and when would he leave it? And then his musings broke off, and he saw that Denethor and Gandalf still looked each other in the eye, as if reading the other’s mind. But it was Denethor who first withdrew his gaze.
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Well we are talking about adaptations to screen here. If Morgan freeman played Gandalf it wouldn’t change anything about the movies. It would make sense no matter what colour he was. what changes if Gandalf was black?
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
Batiman said:
Well we are talking about adaptations to screen here. If Morgan freeman played Gandalf it wouldn’t change anything about the movies. It would make sense no matter what colour he was. what changes if Gandalf was black?
Click to expand...
Well, for starters he might have more trouble getting access to restricted palace libraries to research the One Ring because folks thought he was a Southron/from Haradrim and thus suspect as an agent of evil or at least a foreign nation. Aragorn was the rightful leader of the entire country and he still had trouble getting folks to accept him.

That said, Morgan Freeman might have been a good choice regardless.
 
Wildebeest

Wildebeest

Member
Hari Seldon said:
The best movie of 2021 was The Green Knight, with Dev Patel playing the whitest of all white people in the whitest of all white universes, Sir Gawain of Authorian legend. And this movie was great because Dev Patel is a fantastic actor.
Click to expand...
We only think that because when people in the Middle Ages imagined anything historical, they literally just pictured people from the present day. They didn't have the same concept of historical representation as us. In Roman Britain, which Arthurian legend mythologizes, they also very rarely wrote about skin colour, despite the more mobile population of the Empire being varied. For them, the social status and role of Gawain would have been exponentially more important than his complexion.
 
Batiman

Batiman

Banned
jason10mm said:
Well, for starters he might have more trouble getting access to restricted palace libraries to research the One Ring because folks thought he was a Southron/from Haradrim and thus suspect as an agent of evil or at least a foreign nation. Aragorn was the rightful leader of the entire country and he still had trouble getting folks to accept him.

That said, Morgan Freeman might have been a good choice regardless.
Click to expand...
I see what you’re saying but that’s thinking with the books in mind. I’m talking strictly the movies. That wouldn’t be an issue. They never hinted once he hid his identity and made it seem everyone in ME knew who he was. It wouldn’t change nothing. No implication that dark people were agents of evil or anything like that.
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
Batiman said:
I see what you’re saying but that’s thinking with the books in mind. I’m talking strictly the movies. That wouldn’t be an issue. They never hinted once he hid his identity and made it seem everyone in ME knew who he was. It wouldn’t change nothing. No implication that dark people were agents of evil or anything like that.
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Eh, I think you missed some stuff. The looks the hobbits give Gandalf shows they see him mostly as a nusiance and charlatan. The only dark skinned folk in the films are the bad guys invading the realm (well, and the orcs). Anyhoo, this discussion is probably best moved to the LOTR thread to declutter the WoT thread.
 
T

TaylorSwiftFan

Member
Hari Seldon said:
I will sacrifice immersion for actor skill 10/10 times. But in this universe 3000 years ago all races were jumbled everywhere in the breaking. I’m not sure if 3000 years is enough for racial homogeneity to develop, but the lore backs up a diverse universe. And really Edmonds field in episode 1 is done for a loooooong time so whatever, 1 episode won’t matter in the long run.

The best movie of 2021 was The Green Knight, with Dev Patel playing the whitest of all white people in the whitest of all white universes, Sir Gawain of Authorian legend. And this movie was great because Dev Patel is a fantastic actor.
Click to expand...
The Green Knight has 48% on RT so maybe it would have been better to more people if the director was more faithful to the story, who knows.
 
T

TaylorSwiftFan

Member
Batiman said:
Well we are talking about adaptations to screen here. If Morgan freeman played Gandalf it wouldn’t change anything about the movies. It would make sense no matter what colour he was. what changes if Gandalf was black?
Click to expand...
You mean other than the fact that he’d be the only black person around?
 
Batiman

Batiman

Banned
FireFistAce said:
You mean other than the fact that he’d be the only black person around?
Click to expand...
Well he’s the only wizard around? Besides sauramon. Still no one has given me a reason why it wouldn’t work for Gandalf besides him just not being white
 
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nightmare-slain

nightmare-slain

Member
my memory might be a bit foggy but i love how quick rand + matt got to tar valon. that shit dragged on far too long in the book.

as for Loial. i hated him in the book but quite like how he is portrayed in the show.

that whitecloak dude is fucking pissing me off. i hope he's dead
 
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nightmare-slain

nightmare-slain

Member
Sosokrates said:
I thought this was about time travel lol
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one of the best fantasy series of all time. behind only Tolkien imo. if any TV show can dethrone GoT it's this. 14 books worth of content that is actually finished and readable (cough*grrm*cough). well i suppose it's to be seen if Amazon will stick with it but if they do...Amazon ain't fucking about with WoT + LOTR (2022). They want that GoT success.
 
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BadBurger

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
I'm not feeling how they're leaving out some characters (especially sinister, fascinating ones like Morded), and how they altered the flight and story thus far of Perrin and Egwene. The actor playing Perrin has really grown on me. The actor portraying Eamon Valda is a bit too "twirling-moustache villain" but I am digging it - he's a cocky bad guy one loves to hate. Egwene is too sheepish, Nynaeve a bit too prideful.

All that said, this latest episode was good. Probably the second best next to ep2.
 
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Tams

Tams

Member
nightmare-slain said:
that whitecloak dude is fucking pissing me off. i hope he's dead
Click to expand...
I get that attitude to it, but it would make the story much more boring if he is (not were, I don't actually know). You need a good baddie and while you do generally want them to be defeated in the end, wanting them gone so quickly is just asking for a shit story.
 
I_D

I_D

Member
In today's episode, the scene that begins at 43:00-ish (three (four) women talking) is the perfect example of why this show feels sorta weird. I don't want to give spoilers, so I won't describe the scene itself.

The actors, however, are not making eye-contact with anybody. Nobody is actually looking at anybody else.
It's like the whole scene was filmed with actors in separate rooms, then they just spliced all the footage together.

It's a really weird feeling for such a high-budget show.


I'm digging the show because it's Wheel of Time, and I really like Wheel of Time.
I feel like I'd have given up by now, though, if it was a different IP that I didn't have so much interest in.


I'm hoping the quality picks up in season 2. There was a pretty significant jump in production-quality from S1 to S2 with Game of Thrones, so I'm still holding out hope.


EDIT:
Dammit, the same exact shit happens at the end of the episode.

"MAT!"
"Mat!"
"MAAAAAAAT!"
---Not a single emotion from Mat. He literally doesn't react even remotely slightly a tiny bit.

It's so obvious that they're filming the actors in entirely separate environments, then attempting to Photoshop them together.
It's just bad, at this point.

I have no idea what the hell Amazon was thinking when they hired the directors for this show. It's just downright bad.

And yet... I will keep watching. Damn you Robert Jordan!
 
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teezzy

teezzy

Banned
People legit asking for like $15 - $20 for WoT paperbacks on ebay right now

I just want A Crown of Swords

Suck my dick, nerds

I'm hoping the Amazon show bombs so I can snag these at like $4 a pop again

Fuck nerds
 
Batiman

Batiman

Banned
teezzy said:
People legit asking for like $15 - $20 for WoT paperbacks on ebay right now

I just want A Crown of Swords

Suck my dick, nerds

I'm hoping the Amazon show bombs so I can snag these at like $4 a pop again

Fuck nerds
Click to expand...
Just finished crown of swords yesterday actually….
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
Wow, ep5 throws down the casual nudity and what is sure to have book loyalists raging. Or maybe I just forgot that was the "relationship" they had.
 
X

Xerographica

Neo Member
Don't ask me how long ago I read the books, but nearly all the main characters in the show are disappointing. Initially I was disappointed by how ugly they are. Ok, maybe they aren't ugly, but they aren't what I'd consider attractive. The only two exceptions are Moiraine and Lan.

Superficiality aside, the main characters are so emo. Were they so emo in the book? I vaguely remember liking the main characters in the book. Wasn't Matt kinda cool in the book? For sure Perrin was, but in the show he's drab. They are all drab.

But I'll continue watching the show because it does have some redeeming value. The production value isn't bad.
 
Batiman

Batiman

Banned
Xerographica said:
Don't ask me how long ago I read the books, but nearly all the main characters in the show are disappointing. Initially I was disappointed by how ugly they are. Ok, maybe they aren't ugly, but they aren't what I'd consider attractive. The only two exceptions are Moiraine and Lan.

Superficiality aside, the main characters are so emo. Were they so emo in the book? I vaguely remember liking the main characters in the book. Wasn't Matt kinda cool in the book? For sure Perrin was, but in the show he's drab. They are all drab.

But I'll continue watching the show because it does have some redeeming value. The production value isn't bad.
Click to expand...
i think they’re pretty good looking people. Matt is pretty much like the book and Perrin was never cool. Came off sorta slow on the book but has a great arc that makes him cool
 
teezzy

teezzy

Banned
Batiman said:
Nah… I have 1-6 with the cool art. Couldn’t find the rest with the art. Sucks
Click to expand...

We're in the same boat then

I refuse to bend to these inflated prices

I got all mine at garage sales for like a buck each so far lol. Stupid Amazon hype raided everything. Was slowly accumulating these for years
 
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Batiman

Batiman

Banned
teezzy said:
We're in the same boat then

I refuse to bend to these inflated prices

I got all mine at garage sales for like a buck each so far lol. Stupid Amazon hype raided everything. Was slowly accumulating these for years
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Ya I should of grabbed them all when I started a few years ago. I didn’t know they would be hard to get now. I’m gonna end up with half the collection with the art and half not. Sucks but whatever. I do love the old school cheesy art though. Crown of swords has a cool one too. It’s what happens at the end
 
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teezzy

teezzy

Banned
Batiman said:
Ya I should of grabbed them all when I started a few years ago. I didn’t know they would be hard to get now. I’m gonna end up with half the collection with the art and half not. Sucks but whatever. I do love the old school cheesy art though. Path of daggers has a cool one too. It’s what happens at the end
Click to expand...

I'm hoping they'll eventually just go down in price. No hurry, I'm a slow reader and Jordan looooves dedicating an entire page to describing a stone cobble wall and some thickets 😆
 
X

Xerographica

Neo Member
Batiman said:
i think they’re pretty good looking people. Matt is pretty much like the book and Perrin was never cool. Came off sorta slow on the book but has a great arc that makes him cool
Click to expand...
Maybe they look better than average, but certainly nowhere near attractive as the closest equivalents in the Lord of the Rings or something a lot lower budget like The Shannara Chronicles.

And where in the world is Faile?
 
J

jason10mm

Gold Member
Brian Fellows said:
If the Aes Sedai are so badass how are the Children of Light able to operate so freely in the shadow of the White Tower?
Click to expand...
I don't recall the politics of the white cloaks vs the Aes Sedai in the books, but in the show the WC are operating kinda like a marauding force attacking people at will to root out potential AS. They are really downplaying actual governments/kingdoms. I know exposition is really frowned upon these days in favor of scenes of personal turmoil but this show needs some more world building "look at this map while I explain it all to you" and fewer scenes of AS internal politics.

I also need to watch the first 2 eps again to see how many women in Two Rivers have that thick single braid since it apparently is unique to TR and so distinctive you can ID someone by that feature alone.
 
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