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[MeatSafeMurderer]

I mean...it's not exactly like TLoU was a tour de force in the gameplay department...it was pretty mediocre actually. The storytelling is what really matters.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Yes and for an apparent budding romance that never came to be it was written rather poorly, I expected better. I wanted to be shocked instead it tries to be overly adult when they are still children. Sure it's a world where you gotta grow up fast but damn...

You were 'shocked' and thought it was 'overly adult' because two females kissed? What century are you from?

[

 

[TraceTheTong]

Unpopular opinion time

TLOU gameplay is very mediocre. It's not really good, it's about adequate for delivering the story and cutscenes. One of the most interesting mechanics is the well balanced crafting and bag mechanic, and even then it's quite surface deep. It all works well because it fits like a glove into the smart level design, as the OP touches on.

There's a moment in TLOU 1, somewhere in the second level (I think?) when you drop into a small room with waist high walls dotted around and Joel himself says "Here we go again" then enemies need taking out and that pretty much summed it up for me. Third person shooting, cover, detective vision, stealth takedowns. We've seen it 5 other times from ND alone.

Will it be good? No.

Will it be as good as TLOU? most likely.

 

[Dr. Claus]

You were 'shocked' and thought it was 'overly adult' because two females kissed? What century are you from?

[

I would say that the relationship the two shared were more akin to two adults, not two children. As in they acted like adults, not kids. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was "two females kissing". In fact, the user didn't even suggest such, so why the strawman?

 

[Hobbygaming]

Unpopular opinion time

TLOU gameplay is very mediocre. It's not really good, it's about adequate for delivering the story and cutscenes. One of the most interesting mechanics is the well balanced crafting and bag mechanic, and even then it's quite surface deep. It all works well because it fits like a glove into the smart level design, as the OP touches on.

There's a moment in TLOU 1, somewhere in the second level (I think?) when you drop into a small room with waist high walls dotted around and Joel himself says "Here we go again" then enemies need taking out and that pretty much summed it up for me. Third person shooting, cover, detective vision, stealth takedowns. We've seen it 5 other times from ND alone.

Will it be good? No.

Will it be as good as TLOU? most likely.

The gameplay in TLOU is sublime and it looks even better in Part 2

 

[Dr. Claus]

The gameplay in TLOU is sublime and it looks even better in Part 2

Gameplay was great, which is why the MP was so fantastic. The story is what was beyond forgettable and mediocre. Excited to see how they handle the MP in TLoU2 whenever they release the fucking thing.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Gameplay was great, which is why the MP was so fantastic. The story is what was beyond forgettable and mediocre. Excited to see how they handle the MP in TLoU2 whenever they release the fucking thing.

The gameplay and story was great which is why it won 200+ awards

 

[Dr. Claus]

The gameplay and story was great which is why it won 200+ awards

If we go by that metric, Hunger Games, Twilight, and 2064: Read Only Memories would be considered objectively fantastic as they all won awards as well. I don't put much stock in "awards" given by journalists who have zero integrity
.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I would say that the relationship the two shared were more akin to two adults, not two children. As in they acted like adults, not kids. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was "two females kissing". In fact, the user didn't even suggest such, so why the strawman?

You talking about the first game?

Seemed like normal teenage girls to me, added with a layer of a dystopia future of having to grow up quicker than normal. Even TWD does this in the comics, shows, and games.

This character in particular had some pretty mature/wise like moments at the age of 9. Impressive acting chops either way.

Judith Grimes (TV Series)

Judith Grimes, sometimes referred to as Jude and nicknamed Little Asskicker by Daryl and Shōtō by Michonne, is a main character and a survivor of the outbreak in AMC's The Walking Dead. She is the daughter of the late Lori Grimes and Shane Walsh and the half-sister to the late Carl Grimes...

walkingdead.fandom.com

 

[Dr. Claus]

You talking about the first game?

Seemed like normal teenage girls to me, added with a layer of a dystopia future of having to grow up quicker than normal. Even TWD does this in the comics, shows, and games.

This character in particular had some pretty mature/wise like moments at the age of 9. Impressive acting chops either way.

Judith Grimes (TV Series)

Judith Grimes, sometimes referred to as Jude and nicknamed Little Asskicker by Daryl and Shōtō by Michonne, is a main character and a survivor of the outbreak in AMC's The Walking Dead. She is the daughter of the late Lori Grimes and Shane Walsh and the half-sister to the late Carl Grimes...

walkingdead.fandom.com

The first game's DLC. Same issue I have with TWD. The characters don't act like how real people would. They didn't act like kids, but like how adults think kids act. It is a growing issue I have had since Druckman took control of Naughty Dog. I just don't think they write well, at least to me.

 

[DeepEnigma]

The first game's DLC. Same issue I have with TWD. The characters don't act like how real people would. They didn't act like kids, but like how adults think kids act.

IDK, we acted like that back before the internet and social media distractions. Explored outside, 14 year old girls were always more mature than us boys at that age, built camps, forts, etc.. More imaginative freedoms and less sheltered I supposed.

Then you couple with that you have to grow up faster due to the dog eat dog dialed to 100 post apocalyptic world, where you have to learn to fight and survive.

They had their child like playful moments in the Halloween store, then their heart fluttering moments of getting closer to one another, crushing, etc.. I suppose it does feel jarring, it did a little watching TWD with Judith's wise nature, but then the circumstances also have some weight, especially knowing it was Michonne that raised her.

 

[Hobbygaming]

If we go by that metric, Hunger Games, Twilight, and 2064: Read Only Memories would be considered objectively fantastic as they all won awards as well. I don't put much stock in "awards" given by journalists who have zero integrity
.

What about user reviews and so many gamers that are hyped for the sequel, the gamers that got TLOU tattoos

 

[Dr. Claus]

What about user reviews and so many gamers that are hyped for the sequel, the gamers that got TLOU tattoos

Hm, almost like as if it is completely subjective and not at all objective. I don't like the story. The writing/characters are bad for me. The best part of the game was its gameplay and MP (again - for me). This should be incredibly obvious so I am not sure why you aren't getting it.

IDK, we acted like that back before the internet and social media distractions. Explored outside, 14 year old girls were always more mature than us boys at that age, built camps, forts, etc.. More imaginative freedoms and less sheltered I supposed.

Then you couple with that you have to grow up faster due to the dog eat dog dialed to 100 post apocalyptic world, where you have to learn to fight and survive.

They had their child like playful moments in the Halloween store, then their heart fluttering moments of getting closer to one another, crushing, etc.. I suppose it does feel jarring, it did a little watching TWD with Judith's wise nature, but then the circumstances also have some weight, especially knowing it was Michonne that raised her.

That is the thing, it felt incredibly jarring. It was rushed. It didn't feel natural and the dialogue was forced. The Ellie of what we see in the main game and what we see in the DLC seem like two completely different characters. Neither of whom act like a kid, but as some dumbass young adult. The writing never flowed well for me, nor did it create believable characters. It feels like some sheltered adult trying to write what he thinks a gay female child would act like.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Hm, almost like as if it is completely subjective and not at all objective. I don't like the story. The writing/characters are bad for me. The best part of the game was its gameplay and MP (again - for me). This should be incredibly obvious so I am not sure why you aren't getting it.



That is the thing, it felt incredibly jarring. It was rushed. It didn't feel natural and the dialogue was forced. The Ellie of what we see in the main game and what we see in the DLC seem like two completely different characters. Neither of whom act like a kid, but as some dumbass young adult. The writing never flowed well for me, nor did it create believable characters. It feels like some sheltered adult trying to write what he thinks a gay female child would act like.

So if reviews don't count, sales don't count, awards don't count, hype and gamer's reception don't count, then what metric do we use to determine whether a game is good?

 

[Danjin44]

I personally very much enjoyed the gameplay in original game, especially in survival difficulty so I have faith in them do the same with the 2nd game.

 

[Dr. Claus]

So if reviews don't count, sales don't count, awards don't count, hype and gamer's reception don't count, then what metric do we use to determine whether a game is good?

First off: When did I say the game was bad?

Secondly: "good" will always be subjective. Some think God of War is good, others don't. Some think Pokemon is good, others don't.

 

[Whitecrow]

It's really fine if you think Uncharted 4 is amazing. To each their own.

But if you're gonna counter my opinion, maybe some arguments to back up your thoughts would also be welcome.

 

[DeepEnigma]

That is the thing, it felt incredibly jarring. It was rushed. It didn't feel natural and the dialogue was forced. The Ellie of what we see in the main game and what we see in the DLC seem like two completely different characters. Neither of whom act like a kid, but as some dumbass young adult. The writing never flowed well for me, nor did it create believable characters. It feels like some sheltered adult trying to write what he thinks a gay female child would act like.

The jarring was more for Judith in TWD, because she is a tiny girl that looks younger than she is. But you accept it as the episodes go on, because it has both spectrum's (still juvenile prone to make mistakes, but has moments of maturity she was taught) conflicting in her.

As for the DLC, that was also prequel Ellie, and those events transpired into what we got out of her in the main game as well, no? That would harden one up quick.

I didn't even see her as gay either at the time (we know or suspect she fully is now and not bi). I saw it more as young adult girls finding things they like about each other being so close, and having a moment. Which is way more common among young females than males, gay or straight.

What was the time gap? I assumed not too long before the main game, and she was still in the "young adult" stage, not way prior to be just "kids", no?

 

[Hobbygaming]

It's really fine if you think Uncharted 4 is amazing. To each their own.

But if you're gonna counter my opinion, maybe some arguments to back up your thoughts would also be welcome.

Best, most realistic melee combat in any shooter next to TLOU, good gunplay, the rope added versatility to combat encounters, some of the best graphics of this gen, great characters and writing, some of the best set pieces in the industry (jeep chase, crumbling structures in Libertalia)

 

[SlimySnake]

I've been recently replaying FF 13 and Uncharted Remastered Collection, so this thought came to my mind:

"They make it bigger, they mess it up."

And why?

Well, I think everyone who played those franchises know what I'm talking about, but let me explain.

There's this debate where some people compares FF XIII corridors / linearity fo FF X, like if it had the same effect.
Yeah, of course, it's the same to stay 2 minutes in an elevator that staying 30, right?

FF XIII maps where like 10 times bigger than X ones, and plagued with endless battles, to the level of feeling almost like a battle game with a story behind, instead of a story with battles.
SE wanted top take advantage of the PS3 power, make everything bigger, messed up the pace.

Then we have Uncharted.
Uncharted 1-3, were really focused and most of climbing was to solve puzzles inside a 'small' area, and world traversal was very bearable, with enough variety of platforming sections and combat encounters.
But you know, Uncharted 4 came. With bigger maps. A lot of map traversal and lots and lots of climbing.
Yes, the borefest we all know.

Following the analogy, it's like the FF XIII of the Uncharted franchise.

And what does this have to do with TLOU?
Of course, "the map will be bigger". Well, sure, everything will be bigger, like, a lot more bigger.

Soooooo, this is the question. Will ND know how to mantain a good pace, with no filler map traversal showcasing?

Well, my prediction is... NOPE.

I think that the main ND team likes to showcase narrative and art in sacrifice of pace. Of course it may change, but having U4 received such praise, I highly doubt it.

ND are very talented. No deniel there. But I think game length is a real pressure and expectation from the media, and unless they came up with a very lengthy story, we will have lots of fillers for sure.

So this makes me keep my expectations in check, and I think that is for the better.

but what about lost legacy? it was much more linear and streamlined. the combat encounters were far more frequent even in the open world chapter.

tlou already had bigger areas than uncharted 1-3. there were several areas where there was no combat. the university area and the bill's town comes to mind. they are simply taking that to the next level.

and unlike uncharted, the gameplay will always be tense because you simply dont know if those buildings you are supposed to be exploring will be free of freakers or not.

ignore uncharted 4. it was an aberration or as i like to call it, an abomination. they fixed the pacing in lost legacy, and made their open world level full of excellent puzzles, combat encounter, and platforming challenges. tlou2 will be even better because the game is full of customization, character upgrade and scrap hunting unlike uncharted which only has treasures to collect.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

I would say that the relationship the two shared were more akin to two adults, not two children. As in they acted like adults, not kids. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was "two females kissing". In fact, the user didn't even suggest such, so why the strawman?

It was a beautiful moment between two teenage girls that are trying to survive in a less than friendly world. Ellie kills hundreds of enemies and infected ... but that kiss and the relationship are 'just too adult'. It's ridiculous to suggest there was anything wrong with that whatsoever. Between the far left and there propogana, agenda pushing crap and the extremely 'conservative' mindset, reading through a thread like this as a person sitting directly in the middle is a nightmare. Both groups need to step back and stop being reactionary. It's embarrassing. I also want to point out that I was against TLOU2 focusing on the lesbian relationship because then the sexuality was being pushed. Left Behind lead up to that kiss wonderfully and it felt sincere. It brought a tear to my eyes. On the other hand, opening TLOU2 with a kiss smacked of an agenda and I didn't like it at all. You see, sitting in the middle brings up situations in which you are in conflict with both extremes. Yeah, it's a nightmare.

 

[joe_zazen]

I would say that the relationship the two shared were more akin to two adults, not two children. As in they acted like adults, not kids. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was "two females kissing". In fact, the user didn't even suggest such, so why the strawman?

it is a trope in western media to write teens as adults because actual teen behaviour isn't interesting or fun narratively.

 

[DeepEnigma]

it is a trope in western media to write teens as adults because actual teen behaviour isn't interesting or fun narratively.

True, the new generations seem to eat Tide Pods, while the East writes them as 10,000 year old dragons.

 

[joe_zazen]

It was a beautiful moment between two teenage girls that are trying to survive in a less than friendly world. Ellie kills hundreds of enemies and infected ... but that kiss and the relationship are 'just too adult'. It's ridiculous to suggest there was anything wrong with that whatsoever. Between the far left and there propogana, agenda pushing crap and the extremely 'conservative' mindset, reading through a thread like this as a person sitting directly in the middle is a nightmare. Both groups need to step back and stop being reactionary. It's embarrassing.

it was for sure, but the idea that tlou had realistic teen characters...yeah idk. ellie, as a child growing up in essentially an active war zone, would be ptsd traumatised to hell and back by the time that sequence occurred. Like i think it is fair to point these things out without being a conservative homophobe.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

it was for sure, but the idea that tlou had realistic teen characters...yeah idk. ellie, as a child growing up in essentially an active war zone, would be ptsd traumatised to hell and back by the time that sequence occurred. Like i think it is fair to point these things out without being a conservative homophobe.

I did not suggest the poster was a homophobe. For the love of God, it's a nightmare. Kids would be traumatised ...

 

[anthraticus]

TLOU2 will suck because TLOU sucked....

And cause all those Uncharted games suck too

 

[Tygeezy]

It will definitely suck if it doesn't have gyroscope support.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

You were 'shocked' and thought it was 'overly adult' because two females kissed? What century are you from?

[

You read my post wrong in an attempt to show me up for clout. You're dumb as shit.

 

[Shai-Tan]

Unpopular opinion time

TLOU gameplay is very mediocre. It's not really good, it's about adequate for delivering the story and cutscenes. One of the most interesting mechanics is the well balanced crafting and bag mechanic, and even then it's quite surface deep. It all works well because it fits like a glove into the smart level design, as the OP touches on.

There's a moment in TLOU 1, somewhere in the second level (I think?) when you drop into a small room with waist high walls dotted around and Joel himself says "Here we go again" then enemies need taking out and that pretty much summed it up for me. Third person shooting, cover, detective vision, stealth takedowns. We've seen it 5 other times from ND alone.

Will it be good? No.

Will it be as good as TLOU? most likely.

I didn't like it either (enough for it to be the only game I've ever switched between from normal to easy) but I'm optimistic about the loop/ai being better this time

 

[Shai-Tan]

I would say that the relationship the two shared were more akin to two adults, not two children. As in they acted like adults, not kids. It has nothing to do with the fact that it was "two females kissing". In fact, the user didn't even suggest such, so why the strawman?

that's actually a good criticism. compare with Stranger Things. some of it is tropey but also captures what I remember being like when I was 12-14

 

[Werewolf Jones]

You were 'shocked' and thought it was 'overly adult' because two females kissed? What century are you from?

[

Rather than be petty though. Here, I'll clarify myself. I get were this DLC is coming from, it takes place in a mall with them doing normal activites anyone their age would do before the decline of society. It's a socially awkward situation for them to be honest about their feelings, but it's so badly done through dialogue. As I've said before what's wrong with Ellie admitting she loves Riley? Or is it because she didn't realize it? Either way the main game says that they both waited it out to die. I was WANTING to see that melodrama of them being together in their final moments, instead the game just has them be like "It be like that sometimes."

That's it, we get a build up of childish events with dialogue that isn't written like a teenager would speak and there is no emotional pay off. I wanted to be shocked by their final moments together being full of tragedy as in that moment it's too late for them to really commit to how they feel.

Also I'm one of the people on GAF who defends gay shit on here, I've made a joke about TLOU 2 being "buff lesbian snuff porn." But I think you'll find I'm not shunning this game for any homosexual encounters. Also Bill in TLOU was handled okay but a bit samey with aggressive guy shielding his emotions cuz he doesn't wanna cry about it.

 

[ethomaz]

Ah the famous mediocre gameplay of tlou1

Gameplay is perfection.

 

[ethomaz]

Uncharted 4 is the best Uncharted.

Truth.

 

[ethomaz]

I didn't like it either (enough for it to be the only game I've ever switched between from normal to easy) but I'm optimistic about the loop/ai being better this time

Play the MP and be surprised at gameplay.
There is no better AI than that.

 

[Whitecrow]

Best, most realistic melee combat in any shooter next to TLOU, good gunplay, the rope added versatility to combat encounters, some of the best graphics of this gen, great characters and writing, some of the best set pieces in the industry (jeep chase, crumbling structures in Libertalia)

Yeah, those are the highlights of the game. But they cant make up for the slog that is the endless climbing.
A great mechanic becomes a slog if its abused, and U4 overly did it with almost everything.

It still have those great things you said, but the general pace of the game is still awful. But well, opinions, I'm glad you enjoyed it that much.

but what about lost legacy? it was much more linear and streamlined. the combat encounters were far more frequent even in the open world chapter.

tlou already had bigger areas than uncharted 1-3. there were several areas where there was no combat. the university area and the bill's town comes to mind. they are simply taking that to the next level.

and unlike uncharted, the gameplay will always be tense because you simply dont know if those buildings you are supposed to be exploring will be free of freakers or not.

ignore uncharted 4. it was an aberration or as i like to call it, an abomination. they fixed the pacing in lost legacy, and made their open world level full of excellent puzzles, combat encounter, and platforming challenges. tlou2 will be even better because the game is full of customization, character upgrade and scrap hunting unlike uncharted which only has treasures to collect.

I love LL. I replayed it a lot more than U4, and still do from time to time.

And also loved TLOU, the game was great in a lot of aspects. But if it's for the 'make it bigger' trend, I'm worried about TLOU 2.

 

[rofif]

Ah the famous mediocre gameplay of tlou1

Is the last of us also better on Easy like Uncharted games ?

 

[rofif]

Truth.

False. Uncharted 3 is the best Uncharted !

 

[Hobbygaming]

Yeah, those are the highlights of the game. But they cant make up for the slog that is the endless climbing.
A great mechanic becomes a slog if its abused, and U4 overly did it with almost everything.

It still have those great things you said, but the general pace of the game is still awful. But well, opinions, I'm glad you enjoyed it that much.


I love LL. I replayed it a lot more than U4, and still do from time to time.

And also loved TLOU, the game was great in a lot of aspects. But if it's for the 'make it bigger' trend, I'm worried about TLOU 2.

I think the consensus overall is that the game is great, I personally didnt have issues with the pacing or climbing

 

[Dr. Claus]

It was a beautiful moment between two teenage girls that are trying to survive in a less than friendly world. Ellie kills hundreds of enemies and infected ... but that kiss and the relationship are 'just too adult'. It's ridiculous to suggest there was anything wrong with that whatsoever. Between the far left and there propogana, agenda pushing crap and the extremely 'conservative' mindset, reading through a thread like this as a person sitting directly in the middle is a nightmare. Both groups need to step back and stop being reactionary. It's embarrassing. I also want to point out that I was against TLOU2 focusing on the lesbian relationship because then the sexuality was being pushed. Left Behind lead up to that kiss wonderfully and it felt sincere. It brought a tear to my eyes. On the other hand, opening TLOU2 with a kiss smacked of an agenda and I didn't like it at all. You see, sitting in the middle brings up situations in which you are in conflict with both extremes. Yeah, it's a nightmare.

You are yet again pushing strawman arguments. Come back to me when you want to discuss normally.

it is a trope in western media to write teens as adults because actual teen behaviour isn't interesting or fun narratively.

Japan seems to do just fine with writing teens as actual teens.

that's actually a good criticism. compare with Stranger Things. some of it is tropey but also captures what I remember being like when I was 12-14

Yep. Stranger Things does it really well. The awkwardness of the characters, the budding romance, etc. If the characters were written more like that, I wouldn't have an issue with TLoU DLC.

 

[Jon Neu]

Yep, best uncharted to get sleepy at night.
My psychologist has the climbing section on chapter 7 on his phone for when i'm too agitated...

If this makes you sleepy, I don't know what else to tell you. I think it has a very good pace, it builds the tension pretty well and when you reach the final part is pure non stop action.

Maybe tell your psychologist to decrease your Lorazepam dose?

 

[EverydayBeast]

Naughty Dog has it all.

 

[brap]

Just wanna give a shout out to OP for having the correct opinion on Uncharted Bore

 

[GymWolf]

If this makes you sleepy, I don't know what else to tell you. I think it has a very good pace, it builds the tension pretty well and when you reach the final part is pure non stop action.

Maybe tell your psychologist to decrease your Lorazepam dose?

i said chapter 7 but i don't really remember the exact chapter, it was the one in the mountain with the brother

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

OP, you need to put more faith and trust in Sony Interactive Entertainment.

 

[GymWolf]

Is the last of us also better on Easy like Uncharted games ?

i don't know, never played on easy.

 

[GymWolf]

False. Uncharted 3 is the best Uncharted !

nope, it's uncharted 2.

 

[Jon Neu]

i said chapter 7 but i don't really remember the exact chapter, it was the one in the mountain with the brother

The Scotland chapter?



It wasn't the best part of the game, but it was good for me.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Naughty Dog is overrated. SJW. Lesbians. MAGA. Movie game. No gameplay. Just facts.
im in day one.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Rather than be petty though. Here, I'll clarify myself. I get were this DLC is coming from, it takes place in a mall with them doing normal activites anyone their age would do before the decline of society. It's a socially awkward situation for them to be honest about their feelings, but it's so badly done through dialogue. As I've said before what's wrong with Ellie admitting she loves Riley? Or is it because she didn't realize it? Either way the main game says that they both waited it out to die. I was WANTING to see that melodrama of them being together in their final moments, instead the game just has them be like "It be like that sometimes."

That's it, we get a build up of childish events with dialogue that isn't written like a teenager would speak and there is no emotional pay off. I wanted to be shocked by their final moments together being full of tragedy as in that moment it's too late for them to really commit to how they feel.

Also I'm one of the people on GAF who defends gay shit on here, I've made a joke about TLOU 2 being "buff lesbian snuff porn." But I think you'll find I'm not shunning this game for any homosexual encounters. Also Bill in TLOU was handled okay but a bit samey with aggressive guy shielding his emotions cuz he doesn't wanna cry about it.

You are completely wrong. The journey of the two teenagers was sown together beautifully with hints there could be something more between them all the way through, the biggest of which was the booth. They both loved each other but feared the other's rejection. Neither knew for certain that the other also had feeling for the same sex as they did. It was taut with levity throughout culminating in a moment of tenderness. That kiss wasn't lustful. The kiss at the beginning of TLOU2 trailer is lustful. You are just not reading Left Behind or that scene correctly. Sorry.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Naughty Dog is overrated. SJW. Lesbians. MAGA. Movie game. No gameplay. Just facts.
im in day one.

Naughty Dog is the best studio