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Xbox boss speaks on rumored PlayStation service tiers/consolidation
Markio128
Gold Member
I’ll put my neck out and say that it ain’t happening. Only one company has the money to spend billions on a software house, then include their games in a budget subscription service. And said subscription service is not cutting into sales of the games developed by competitors, so what is the point?
I’m going to hazard a guess in that Sony will start to offer a similar subscription to Nintendo, in offering old classics as part of an additional tier to PS+.
I’m going to hazard a guess in that Sony will start to offer a similar subscription to Nintendo, in offering old classics as part of an additional tier to PS+.
Negotiator101
Member
Yeah because Hellblade 2 looks really cheap
kingfey
Banned
That is just horrible take. And reek of super Bias.
kingfey
Banned
How is he right?
Airbus Jr
Banned
No hes right
Sony and Nintendo cant afford what Ms doing (putting their new game in subscription services)
Development cost etc will suffer heavy losess
Only microsoft xbox can afford that
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SLB1904
Banned
fuck that
kingfey
Banned
I understand that they can't afford it, since it takes alot of money to run that service.
Its just the other stuff that undermines his point.
Papacheeks
Banned
Yeah because Hellblade 2 looks really cheap
Hellblade 1 was made with a small budget, small team, and not using top of the line mo-cap. Hellblade 2 hbas a much larger budget, and more people on the project. But its still no where near what Halo, Gears costs in terms of Production/Development costs. Let alone anything Sony makes.
Negotiator101
Member
What's the cost of HB2 then? You seem to know all the numbers? Or are you as I suspect just speculating?
Hitchyhero
Banned
Will be the biggest failure in PS history. GAF users have been telling us for years they don't like "renting" their games and subscriptions services are bad
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
He's right. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
TheDreadLord
Member
I think Sony is better off adding value to PS+/Now by including additional media content, e.g., Crunchyroll and Sony Movies. The games are kinda part of the PlayStation branding and as long as people are OK in paying for them it makes sense to keep as it is.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I would love a PS equal to Gamepass of their big games day one because I am in the camp of when I know I will play a game a lot I still buy the limited edition of said game and get to try games I wouldn't buy
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It would also be the superior option for cross-gen support: keep native versions on PS5/Xbox Series, stream cloud versions to PS4/XBO.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
Absolutely not. Hellblade looks amazing. But I'm not talking about graphics, I'm referring to the whole package. IIRC, many complained the first title was all show with minimal substance. What they managed to accomplish was impressive for such a small studio. I'm curious to see how the sequel evolves, especially under game pass model.Yeah because Hellblade 2 looks really cheap
skit_data
Gold Member
We’ll see, I have my doubts personally. Maybe tiered PS+ with additional games but I don’t see them putting all new 1st party releases on the service.
I don’t think they will if they don’t see the need to do it or if they have data that it would indeed be making more money than their current model.
I don’t think they will if they don’t see the need to do it or if they have data that it would indeed be making more money than their current model.
This sounds like it would be a legal nightmare. You're talking about contract laws. I don't think Sony would do day one releases for their big tentpole single player games but I can see them going towards GaaS, Mtx riddled multiplayer games and smaller AA releases.
Lupin25
Member
Mr. Vindicative lol…
I don’t envision Sony doing this until their walled-off, traditional model actually fails (console sales)…
Which it never has, while continuing to culminate.
Probably next generation.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
It would also be the superior option for cross-gen support: keep native versions on PS5/Xbox Series, stream cloud versions to PS4/XBO.
But it isn't that much different in practice to what cable providers, satellite providers, ISPs etc. already do, right? It's basically like a per-game VOD broken up into monthly installments.
Think back to Blockbuster or Hollywood Video days where if you skipped out on returning a video you rented, you'd have to pay a late fee, possibly cover the cost of the item, and eventually if you kept returning things late or not at all you'd have your membership voided. Same thing here just with digital items and accounts now.
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PropellerEar
Member
Concern
Member
There's no telling what they'll do. Just a year ago people were laughing at the thought of pc ports yet now we have Horizon, GoW, and Uncharted collection going to pc. And with that we've already seen some opinions flip flop.
Will be no different if and when Sony does a gamepass competitor.
Chukhopops
Member
Sony could definitely afford it considering their revenue and profit, but I don’t think they need to or want to.
I think it’s just Phil trying to raise the expectations of people on their competitor’s service, especially the Play Anywhere part which we know will never happen for Sony.
Also the idea that you need a huge budget to make good games is stupid.
Edgelord79
Gold Member
Kind of amazing what's happening if you think about it. Microsoft has managed to leverage GamePass as a mechanism to make Sony respond. It's been so effective in raising Xbox in the marketplace, that it's impossible for Sony to ignore, at least from their analysts point of view (they wouldn't be doing this otherwise).
The problem for Sony is that they will be a full generation behind with their service offerings. This means going through the growing pains Microsoft endured. They will also encounter very stiff competition from an established competitor (Microsoft) with deep pockets, whereas Microsoft never had to do that.
It's not like Sony is high and dry, they have a fantastic first party lineup and are far and away the market leader. But we know how quickly that can change by ignoring the market trends. It's a bit of a mess for Sony to be honest.
The problem for Sony is that they will be a full generation behind with their service offerings. This means going through the growing pains Microsoft endured. They will also encounter very stiff competition from an established competitor (Microsoft) with deep pockets, whereas Microsoft never had to do that.
It's not like Sony is high and dry, they have a fantastic first party lineup and are far and away the market leader. But we know how quickly that can change by ignoring the market trends. It's a bit of a mess for Sony to be honest.
DJ12
Member
You do know gamepass exists because xbox and their game studios couldn't compete with Sony don't you?
Reading some people's comments you'd think xbox was the market leader and Sony were about to go bankrupt.
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Hitchyhero
Banned
Flight Sim, Forza, Halo infinite, psychonauts 2, plus released this year was Deathloop, which would have gone on gamepass had it not been for pre existing contracts. All that in one year. And they were all quality titles which received much praise.
No need for your concern. What
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ParaSeoul
Member
Does that excite you in your pants or something
El Pistolero
Banned
Not gonna happen. They may have the option ala Disney + where you can buy their first party titles separately.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
So are Netflix, Disney+, HBO Max and the like also money sinks created to prop up failing DVD, Blu-Ray and movie ticket sales?
I'm not saying everything you just posted is wrong; in some ways GamePass was made as a feature to give back to loyal Xbox players when the platform was at its weakest. But this kind of argument of yours is completely reductionists and also ignores the fact that given Microsoft's services-orientated model they would have EVENTUALLY done something like GamePass anyway, and their general company philosophy for services has been driven by opportunities in cloud markets (a blue ocean opportunity), not out of failing from products like Windows.
Whatever mixture of factors there were for GamePass's creation, the more important thing is if the product has since come to serve their purpose. Given they've said it's sustainable for them (granted, that doesn't mean it's profitable, or at least massively profitable), then it's at least halfway to satisfying its goal. It was a change they had to do in order to help the platform, and it's been doing that pretty well.
Papacheeks
Banned
unless the team grew 3x its size, the plan to make something within a modest budget was and is still one of their things they continue to due. They are also working on multiple titles within the studio. I just know from what they shared during Hellblade one development their approach to experimental development.
Seems that same/similar approach is happening with HB2:
Hellblade 2 trailers, gameplay, length and what you need to know
Hellblade 2 certainly takes things to the next level
Not saying it does not have a big budget, but its not in the same league as Halo Infinite in terms of it's budget/dev time/studio size ect.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Maybe, but as a whole cant be much more.
PS4 has 120 million systems. If you add up all the sales of GOW, LOU, Horizon, UC, Spiderman etc.... does it even hit 120M? If it does that means the average PS4 owner buys 1 first party exclusive. And not all those copies will even be at regular price as every publisher dumps off games for $40, $30 or $19.99.
The more gamers buying 2, 3, or 8 first party exclusives means a shit load of gamers buying zero exclusives.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
John Wick
Member
They won't have their new titles launch on the service. Just cause Phil says doesn't mean it will. I think Bloomberg have got it spot on.
laynelane
Member
Reading post here is really confusing.
So is $70 a year subscription is worth more then $70 per game?
From my own understanding, I would make more money just selling games, but posters in this thread are saying that the subscription would be worth more to Sony, because Microsoft is doing it????
Huh?
It is confusing. And for some reason, only Sony has to compete with GamePass. Nintendo never enters the discussion despite, like Sony, sticking to a traditional model for selling their first party games.
John Wick
Member
So what your saying is MS cloud infrastructure isn't secure? You can imagine the lawsuits can't you?
SLB1904
Banned
yeah, say goodbye to big games.
Papacheeks
Banned
nice drive by baiting.
They released some good games, but yes Microsoft in 2021 had a great year. Just like 2022 Is going to be a great year for Sony.
Kid has no clue. You are wasting your time.
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poodaddy
Gold Member
Gamepass has a Games Leaving Soon section. They send you notifications about the games leaving soon on the PC app, the phone app, and on the Xbox dashboard. You can view them at any time.
Whatcha talking about? Or are ya just spewing?
John Wick
Member
No it won't. Is PS Plus dead?
Sony won't release new games day and date on the service. Maybe 3-6 months later.
kingfey
Banned
Ps+ is for MP games.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Because Sony's model is a lot closer to MS's. And Nintendo sells tons of games still at regular price and still selling years later at full price. Nintendo's game selling strategy, port strategy and online are as 180 as you can get vs. Sony and MS.
Sony and MS have similarities:
- Lots of similar third party games
- Similar system power
- Paid online
- PS+/GWG
- PS Now/Game Pass, where these sub plans can play on PC
- PC ports for both
The key difference in services between them is GP has first party day one games, frequent third party and indie games day one (more B-tier) and more recent games. While Sony's sub services skew to older games.
So it's come down to whether gamers think day one games will show on Sony sub plans.
nemiroff
Gold Member
unless the team grew 3x its size, the plan to make something within a modest budget was and is still one of their things they continue to due. They are also working on multiple titles within the studio. I just know from what they shared during Hellblade one development their approach to experimental development.
Seems that same/similar approach is happening with HB2:
Hellblade 2 trailers, gameplay, length and what you need to know
Hellblade 2 certainly takes things to the next levelwww.techradar.com
Not saying it does not have a big budget, but its not in the same league as Halo Infinite in terms of it's budget/dev time/studio size ect.
I'm not going to butt in either way on you guys' argument, just wanted to say that for what it's worth after a loose search "Youtube" says that Hellblade was developed by a team of 20 people (not necessarily all employees engaged of course). Google search says Ninja Theory has currently has 120 employees (2020), linkedin says 135. Ninja Theory website says 50-200 employees. Didn't find actual number in the HB2's team, but it kinda seems like it's safe to say it's more than 3x HB1 during crunch.
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ZywyPL
Banned
What they don't have tho is the studios, brand recognition, IPs, legacy library and proven track record. Like really, just Sony/Nintendo announcing a subscription service would already leave those big tech companies into dust, before even executing it, because people would know damn well what to expect, what are the IPs, the studios and so on, while Google with Stadia has shown more enough that deep pockets don't mean anything if you're releasing a gaming service... without games.
You're missing the greater picture in this kind of distribution model, as per your example - 50M x 10$ x 12 months = 6B yearly revenue, no matter if/how many games people play. So for example - a group of let's say 15M people will play GT7, but everyone who's not interested in it at all still technically pays for it. The other group of people will want to play Spider-Man 2, cool, but those GT guys still pay for it. And so on. The whole trick is to build up this kind of userbase first, but once that happens it's actually so much healthier model because it allows the companies/devs to take risks, to experiment, to be creative, this is the kind of model where games like Days Gone can indeed be a full trilogy, instead of relying on those mentioned 1st week full price sales and be dead if they don't hit the mark.
Roxkis_ii
Member
What I didn't mention in my first post is how a subscription service would also lower the perceived value of games. Once you put your games on a sub, most people won't buy that game at MSRP or even sales prices.
So not only would Sony likely make less money on games upfront, they also lose their ability to sell them at retail prices or even get extra customers or interest with game sales.
How many people would have cared about days gone coming out a second time if it was day and date on a sub service?
On another note, as a painter, I'm a fan of that username!