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[Krisprolls]

It's baffling the video game industry can't understand they won't improve their revenue by adding even more constraints and money traps every day. They're just killing their own business on the long run by making it less user friendly.

When we'll be really bored and everything we loved about our hobby is gone (new game ideas, ease of use, the feel of owning a game collection...), then we'll either go full PC or stop gaming completely.

Nobody asked them to make 100 million $ call of duty sequels after all. You can make great games with low budgets, indie games prove that every day.

That's really the wrong way to go for the industry. They need lower game budgets, not more consumer milking...

 

[S¡mon]

Ugh I've noticed a trend for the "legit" supporters. It really seems that most anyone who's ok with this that isn't a MS viral, does so because it doesn't affect them. That's all well and good but can you think about other people for once?

You know, I'm mostly okay with what Microsoft has announced. Obviously, the information is still fresh and I might get some things wrong, but I can see the benefits of this system and I understand why Microsoft has a "be-connected-once-every-24-hours"-rule.

That said, I believe there should be some changes:

- Instead of a once-every-24-hours check, I would have gone for 48 or 72 hours (because there are still lots of unstable internet connections in the world)
- If you want to gift a game to a friend, this friend has to be in your friendlist for 30 or more days. Remove the limit, I'd say.

And most importantly:
- Why not remove the limit that you need to login once every 24 hours, if the actual game disc is inside the Xbox One? It's like an absolute guarantee that someone owns that game at that very moment.

These are just a few things they should change in my opinion, and I'm probably missing something else too (this information is still too fresh). But again, over-all it's not too bad and I can see the benefits.

 

[imtehman]

some of my friends on Facebook are actually defending this.

 

[xxracerxx]

Has he actually commented on that? Or is this just a presumption?

Presumption, but why else would people who just agree with this with a single sentence would get banned?

EDIT:

Vinny on Giantbomb had a crazy thought:

• Buy game from Gamestop
• Install and verify, unplug internet
• Take back to Gamestop for refund or used price (considering they allow this)
• You now have 24 hours to beat this game before it can never be played again.

 

[Raxus]

Put this together to educate your not so tech savvy friends

Let's look at the positives. You can:

• Watch TV Offline
• ...
• POWER OF THE CLOUD!
• 

 

[Barack Lesnar]

They are completely and utterly deluded if they think that the average consumer will somehow understand that the disc can't be sold after they're done with it.

I don't know what planet they're living on, but forget about us hardcores for a second. There's just no chance any regular person will be okay with not being able to sell a disc once they're done with it.

This is a great point that might be lost in the shuffle. Microsoft is delusional if they think the average consumer who doesn't follow gaming closely will understand all this nonsense. There's going to be a huge backlash from Moms and Dads who bought their kid a game and can't resell it later. You're going to see tons of complaints to the BBB and so on.

Gamestop/Walmart/Best Buy and the others are going to have a hell of a time explaining these restrictions to Joe Dad and Suzy Mom.

 

[Violater]

But guys? Exclusives!!!

 

[Soler]

The one that is basically a given is hard for me to believe, especially given their <1% operating margin for the gaming segment in fiscal 2012.

I just think people should be ready for Sony to consider all options, including paying for online play.

Thats anecdotal evidence at best and a horrible assumption at worst

 

[Woo-Fu]

Sooooo... if you want to sell your game to someone, you just add them to you friends list for 30 days, then sell the game. Why all this overhead?

There is an art to making anything that gives value back to the consumer just painful enough that most won't follow through while many will still consider it a bonus when making a purchase.

Most cash rebates are like that, for instance.

Making it hard to cancel subscriptions(like Live Gold) is another example.

Microsoft can say, "sure you can trade/sell your games." knowing that there are enough hurdles in place to kill off most of the trading/reselling seen in the previous generation, while also allowing publishers to take the blame if they don't allow it at all for their titles.

 

[Schweinehund]

What an insult to me. I don't care about used games but this is just ridiculous. 24 hour check in is insane + the amount of control publishers have over a product that you BUY, I really hope ps4 isn't going this route.

 

[BigDug13]

Yeah it's the publishers oushing for this. And MS would never do it if Sony could use it as a selling point against them

I think you give the Microsoft Board Room guys too much credit.

 

[suddenlyissoon]

Not as bad as originally thought but still completely awful.

 

[DC R1D3R]

So what happens if you don't turn on your console? Will it be like PS plus updates which automatically turns it on?

Edit: I remember it can be on low power state. Is it still connected to the net then?

I'm afraid so Dave.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Wow. Massive thread. We need someone to summarize what happened. Bishop on massacre mode?

 

[GuardianE]

Yeah it's the publishers oushing for this. And MS would never do it if Sony could use it as a selling point against them

They would if they get exclusive Call of Duty content. Which they are.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Almost certainly this will be one of two things.

1. It's entirely up to the user, and people will have a reason not to put their friends on because of annoying limitations like "only one person in the family can play from the shared library at a time".

2. All the family members' accounts have to use the same credit card.

Can anyone think of anything else they'd realistically do?

The primary account has to be on the same console. The point of this "feature" would be that all accounts on one console can play any games installed on it even if they are "assigned" to one particular account. As a secondary account holder of a game maybe you'll be able to log into a your account on a different machine and be able to play it.

This certainly DOES NOT mean that you can classify your friend across the planet as a family member and they'll be able to play any games you own any time they want.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

This. This is what a Microsoft-lead gaming industry looks like.

 

[mbmonk]

Good to see Order 66 finally activated for the astroturfers.

Agreed.

 

[Salaadin]

What irritates me about these "journalists" and devs (or former devs) who are now taunting gaf as if we are a bunch of overreacting fools...they used to be us. They were the kids playing games with their friends for hours. They played games they never would have touched because someone loaned it to them. They sold or traded games to others to ease the cost of this expensive hobby. They ran between friends houses with one game and showed it off to everyone because they loved it so much...and they werent restricted at all. They had the freedom that we are crying for right now.

Now, theyre nothing more than shills. The publishers are the cow and these guys have had their lips wrapped around its money dripping udders for too long. Theyre not us anymore. Theyre not on our side. They think we're overreacting but at least we have the mother fucking decency to at least TRY to fix this shit. To TRY and get things changed so that we arent dicked over once again by an industry that we are still foolish enough to support...because we love games.

Fuck them.

Guys like Angry Joe and Jim Sterling...I dont always agree with you but youre fighting our fight and I appreciate that. Keep it up. You have my axe.

 

[RedNumberFive]

SenjutsuSage: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61780568&postcount=685

Speedy Blue Dude: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61782374&postcount=780

Hunter Gather: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61789892&postcount=1248

crusadernm: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61806752&postcount=2233

RyanReedyMusic: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61812206&postcount=2458

MrNyarlathotep was banned but not for a post in this thread I think, he's also an old-school GAFer.

I've always been convinced that Speedy Blue Dude was SpeedyManic's alt account.

 

[ElTorro]

People actually believe PS4 used game policy won't be nearly identical?

Well, at least they said explicitly that PS4 won't require any internet connection. So, in theory, there won't be a comparable home-calling DRM mechanism.

Of course, that could just be code for "As long as publishers do not want it (which won't be the case for any of them)".

 

[shola]

if ms is giving publishers the ability to enable/disable game resale, i can 100% assure you this will be on ps4.

 

[josecitoxnyo]

Waiting for Sunhilegend gif.

 

[vg260]

I can see how this would rub some people the wrong way, but this all fits in with my current setup and habits, so I'm still completely on board (also buying a PS4; I get everything).

That said, an all-digital console seems like something that's about 10 years ahead of its time for most folks. Xbox One should have been more of a bridge. I think MS is going to lose a lot of customers going into next gen.

Yeah, I think all-digital is inevitable, and it's going to come with cons and people will get upset at those regardless. It seems like this is mostly a timing issue. We'll see if it's too soon. I'm ready, but I totally understand others not being so.

Honestly, none of these policies conflict with my habits currently either except for renting, so I'm still open to being sold. Not a fan of the 24 hour check, but in reality it would seldom affect me. I'd have to just be more selective with purchases, which oddly enough lines up with needing to be more selective due to time constraints. So, I'm still waiting to see how compelling the hardware, features, and software end up being.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

It's good to know that I can skip M$ yet another generation, I'm glad they do this tbh, they won't be getting any Japanese exclusives with this kinda crap.

 

[Woorloog]

some of my friends on Facebook are actually defending this.

Send them this:

Put this together to educate your not so tech savvy friends

 

[Soler]

We just got some new juniors just so they can be banned for this occasion.

This is delicious.

Im offended

 

[toastyToast]

That sounds worse than I expected.

Was it clarified what was meant by 10 family members? Days they can access from anywhere which has me confused.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think Stump's post is spot on. I think the disconnect is that lots of people (myself included) do not understand and have not been sold on the idea of a digital-only games console. The only reason I think people have not rejected it out of hand this time around is the strength of the Xbox brand (compare and contrast it to the PSP Go, I suppose). That's my personal sentiment.

It's going to take very significant sweeteners to overcome that resistance to a digital-only console because I don't understand why you are doing this. The market is not evaporating or in serious contraction, we have a very vibrant retail presence, we have very active secondary and private markets.

I think I need more than just pricing to get me over this. I know I am in a premium hobby; I don't mind paying lots of money because I'm into the ritual of it all. But lots of the problems that the Steam client solved (patching being one of them) don't apply here and the only arguments people can muster are focused on publisher well-being (frankly they can all get fucked).

I'm very concerned.

This console will require Steam-like sales and prices in order to be palatable to the majority of GAF-caliber gamers.

There's no reason at all to believe such a future is on the horizon, so I can't imagine a lot of people genuinely excited about the prospects here.

 

[MarkusRJR]

BUT but but.. we are listening. Just listening.

How in the hell did these answers look "good" to anyone. The fuck?

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

It sucks, but it sucks less than before. I still have issues with the Kinect and 24 hour check though, this is at least a start.

It's utter bullshit. All of it.

 

[LuuKyK]

So incredibly pissed off right now. All this fucking decisions MS is making are disgusting to boot.

 

[SRTtoZ]

I feel pretty bad for the thousands out there that have no idea this is going on, people that don't follow news or anything. You know, people without Internet.

Oh they will know trust me. I only JUST hooked up my uncles 360 to the internet a few months back because they were using the old dashboard. Its people like that who will turn it on for the first time and be utterly lost and then will have to call people like ME for help.

 

[EvB]

This is a great point that might be lost in the shuffle. Microsoft is delusional if they think the average consumer who doesn't follow gaming closely will understand all this nonsense. There's going to be a huge backlash from Moms and Dads who bought their kid a game and can't resell it later. You're going to see tons of complaints to the BBB and so on.

Gamestop/Walmart/Best Buy and the others are going to have a hell of a time explaining these restrictions to Joe Dad and Suzy Mom.

Games shops never had any real problem with single use PC games that they wouldn't accept trade ins with , even when Half Life 2 came out.

I think many people would actually say that PC gaming is actually better since the move to digital.

 

[TheComingofTan]

I preferred the Xbox over the PS2 and the 360 over the PS3. Right now I am leaning PS4. The kinect requirement is pushing me away.

 

[RedRedSuit]

This is some bullshit.

No, I never buy used games and never sell games.

However, I do enjoy loaning games out, and I do enjoy borrowing them from time to time. The fact that one now has to jump through incredible hoops (and only if the publisher allows it, at that) to give a disc to a friend is stunning incompetence by MS.

I am somewhat sympathetic to the GameStop/etc. dilemma. I am *somewhat* able to understand why it *might* be good for the industry to squeeze them a little on second-hand sales. I am not totally convinced about that either, and I've heard good arguments either way...

...but this doesn't accomplish that. If anything it provides a way for GS/etc. to keep doing their thing and stay afloat. Meanwhile anyone who was completely non-threatening in terms of publisher profits -- borrowers, loaners, etc. -- is the one who has to get screwed.

I *might* have been sympathetic to some kind of backroom deal with GS/etc. that would enable some profit sharing of used games... with no detrimental effect on the user experience. OK, so GS profits will suffer and/or used games at GS will become somewhat more expensive. Instead -- no, let's punish everyone but leave GS a lifeline.

It's dumb.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Man, if this continues, next-gen console discussions after launch will be down to, like, fifty people tops. Will this development result in a splinter forum just to house the minority, like me, who aren't really bothered enough to not pick up next-gen consoles due to DRM? A new age of GAF is upon us.

 

[Playsation_]

Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

BANNED, son!!

 

[RedNumberFive]

Remember when our biggest concerns were pay walls and tons of advertisements?

 

[Xbudz]

Xbox One doesn't sound like a game console.
It sounds like jail for your games.

 

[IrishNinja]

Waiting for Sunhilegend gif.

it's only a matter of time, and we'll know cause a refresh will show it 30 times

 

[Raxus]

How in the hell did these answers look "good" to anyone. The fuck?

What I love is they looked at the response the rumors got and made them worse.

I bet they are patting themselves on the back right now.

 

[N2NOther]

Nope, but nobody complains about Steam. I don't blame some people for not liking things, but many are being completely unreasonable. The most controversial thing in the entire policy is the requirement of an internet connection. Everything else sounds completely reasonable and like a decent compromise between what could have been a worse case scenario.

GAF was pissed about fees when giving games to friends or when trading them in or reselling.

Microsoft announces that there are no fees for giving games to friends or trading them in or reselling. GAF still pissed.

GAF was pissed about no used games.

Microsoft announces, unequivocally, that used games are definitely supported on Xbox One, and even describes how they are supported. GAF still pissed.


I'm calling bs on this one. People are reading way, way too much into how that was written lol. Seriously. By the very nature that any publisher will be releasing a game on Xbox One, all games will have to meet these requirements. You won't need to contact some publisher and get permission from them. People really do try to find new ways to complain...

No one complains about Steam because PC games have not been able to be resold in over a decade. Steam facilitates something that has already existed.

I'm "pissed" about this announcement because I sell games privately to get the most that I can for the game. This new policy does say used games are supported but with a major caveat. A caveat that eliminates private sales. Sorry but as someone who sells their games when they're done with them, this is reason to be pissed.

Don't feed a hungry person shit and say "Look! I'm letting you eat!"

None of the things MS said change the things GAF are supposedly pissed about. They just changed why they're pissed about them.

 

[kasane]

I'm afraid so Dave.

Ohhh hell naaaaaw! What if you unplug it? Will you get banned? What If you're moving :O

 

[HeySeuss]

Iwata: *Laughs*

But seriously, if Sony does something similar, Nintendo has just been given a golden ticket to save the WiiU. Advertise how the WiiU has no restrictions or online requirements and used games will work and they can capitalize on this.

 

[Dipswitch]

I'm actually having a hard time keeping track of all the "no-no's" associated with this console. I'll think of the family sharing thing and think that addresses one of my concerns. Then I'll remember the online check-in every 24 hours and how that screws over the military, or that I can't lend games to friends or how I won't be able to rent games from Redbox anymore.......

So far the minuses way, WAY outweigh the positives.

 

[Rubezh]

SenjutsuSage: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61780568&postcount=685

Speedy Blue Dude: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61782374&postcount=780

Hunter Gather: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61789892&postcount=1248

crusadernm: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61806752&postcount=2233

RyanReedyMusic: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61812206&postcount=2458

MrNyarlathotep was banned but not for a post in this thread I think, he's also an old-school GAFer.

This is amazing and sickening at the same time.

 

[legacyzero]

Man, Microsoft. You really shit the bed on this one..

 

[1-D_FTW]

Surprise, the three biggest publishers are behind it.

MS has a long history of capitulating to DRM things on the PC side. If they'd had any balls, they and Sony could have stood up together. Those guys are then gonna go PC only? I think not. That's the lie in the narrative though. MS wants to monetize everything and that's why they were eager beavers in this scheme. Even if it was because the Big 3 pushed it. That's all you really need to do with MS and DRM. Push a little and they eagerly comply.

 

[ActStriker]

It only gets worse. Jesus.

Well, I know I'm not getting an Xbox One anytime soon. Microsoft can straight fuck off with that.