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Zelda has slipped to 2006
- Thread starter Gaybrush Threepio
- Start date
wobedraggled
Banned
jett said:Poor, poor GC-only owners. I think they pretty much *have* to buy another console this year with the only worthwhile title more than 9 months away.
Really, I'll be buying batallion wars long before that, not to mention Odama and Chibi Robo.
Thanks for playing
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Rindain said:
- Not screwing a loyal fanbase
- Not putting the final nail in the coffin of those one screw up away from giving up on Nintendo forever
- Knowing the game will be playable on Revolution anyway
- Showing potential Revolution customers that the console you're going to buy has a good chance of being supported to the end of its life
- Not spending resources converting a game to a system with a fanbase of none compared to one with a fanbase of millions, especially when those resources can go into other Revolution games
- Not putting a Zelda game in competition with a Mario game, a Metroid game and a Smash Bros game, not to mention Miyamoto's new franchise which could really do without having to fight to be noticed against Zelda on top of those other 3 big series
Maybe. But getting this from the Zelda delay is weird.
I thought fog and jaggies were things of the past.
*looks at Zelda screens*
Apparently I was wrong!
Like I said before, if your artists and game engine can't do better than this, switch it back over to cel-shaded because at least that looked good. And since you've delayed it, go for it.
*looks at Zelda screens*
Apparently I was wrong!
Like I said before, if your artists and game engine can't do better than this, switch it back over to cel-shaded because at least that looked good. And since you've delayed it, go for it.
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Odysseus said:
You realize this is on Gamecube, not a next gen console? If so, your comment makes absolutely no sense. Jaggies are gonna be a problem on just about any game running at 640x480.
Seriously, the more I read your post the more it pisses me off. It's just so damn wrong.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
I also don't think you understand what volumetric fog is.
Sweet Prince
Banned
Odysseus said:
when did volumetric fog become a bad thing?
Sweet Prince
Banned
aparently, the fog is there for artistic reasons, not because hardware limitations.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Sweet Prince said:
What?
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
You guys do know we've seen plenty of screens with draw distances considerably longer than those in the town with no fog right? Movies too?
psycho_snake
I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Wow, just when i thought that Nintendo couldnt get any dumber, they go and do this! Is the delay just in USA or are they also delaying the game in Japan? This sucks balls, I couldnt wait for December to comne by just so I could play Zelda, but thats not the case anymore. Mario strikers will be good, but it doesnt even compare to Zelda. Thank god I have a PS2 though, I will be able to keep myselfbust playing DDS2
. Mario strikers will be good, but it doesnt even compare to Zelda. Thank god I have a PS2 though, I will be able to keep myselfbust playing DDS2 It would be good if they still kept it on GC but also made it a revolution launch title. I dont think that having it on GC and revolution would affect Revolution sales, but only if Nintendo can prove that Revolution is not just worth buying for one game along. The graphics are really good so there will be no complaints about the game not looking good enough for a next gen game and Nintendo seriously need something special to lift their new console.
The reasons I have for thinking there's at least a 40% chance of Revolution releasing in 2007 are mainly due to Nintendo's track record with console launches along with the necessary development time needed for games (i.e. recent statements that Nintendo doesn't even know what the core concept for Mario Revolution will be).
The Zelda delay further supports this possibility in my mind. It just seems to me that a late Zelda is a way to tide Nintendo console fans over until the Rev launches. If Zelda launched this fall as planned, then there would be nothing to look forward too console-wise until Fall 2006.
This is just Nintendo making sure it keeps it's name in console-gamers' minds until the Rev launches.
The Zelda delay further supports this possibility in my mind. It just seems to me that a late Zelda is a way to tide Nintendo console fans over until the Rev launches. If Zelda launched this fall as planned, then there would be nothing to look forward too console-wise until Fall 2006.
This is just Nintendo making sure it keeps it's name in console-gamers' minds until the Rev launches.
DieNgamers
Member
I'm really glad (as a "gamer") that they complete the game without too much pressure. I don't want another rushed game like Wind Waker.
And yes, I'm also glad that cel shading is gone. A good atmosphere is no problem anymore .
And yes, I'm also glad that cel shading is gone.
A good atmosphere is no problem anymore .Sweet Prince
Banned
AltogetherAndrews said:
objects are still visible through the fog, meaning the GC still has to render the polys for those objects. overlaying an object with fog takes more power than it does to just have the object be present.
Culex said:
i don't see much fog in the snow shot...
robertsan21
Member
oh that is really bad
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Culex said:
Well, I'm pretty sure that it is supposed to simulate decreased visibility due to snowfall, but yeah... it looks like crap.
Sweet Prince said:
Again, what? The background architecture is a simple silhouette, allowing for less texture and model detail. That's precisely what distance fog does.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
There isn't any fog in the snow pic!
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Tim the Wiz said:
I thought I once read that Iwata also came from a very strong financing/accounting background, and he was very bottom-line focused. That's where that came from.
I'm not nessicarrily saying that delaying Zelda will cause higher Zelda sales (in fact, personally, I believe it'll have the oppisite affect), but what I do believe, and I do certainly believe played a big part in it, was that Nintendo realizes (and its true, really) that Zelda launching this season would canniblize sales of Mario Baseball/Party 7/Mario Mix (etc), and particularly the similiar-targeted games such as Fire Emblem and Pokemon RPG.
With everyone buying Zelda, it would hurt those games sales. And their general awarness, because people would be too singularly focused on Zelda on their GC, while buying the X360 stuff also.
So maybe they did a cost-benefit analysis, and saw delaying Zelda would give a sufficient enough boost to the sales of the other games combined to warrant a financial gain enough to spend more development time on Zelda.
I'm just saying, as working for a major business corporation that I do, this is how businesses think. They don't give the okay to delay a product because the developrs want to Zelda herself to turn into a hawk. They make those kind of decisions based on financial resources, not creative intent.
Press releases can't say that, however. So thats why we always get those generic "Add amazing new content!" messages. Not to say they aren't ALSO doing that, I'm sure EVERY developer wants to add more to their games and polish it more, but ultimately it is the publisher and the business side who makes these decisions, and there reasoning is usually as I stated above.
That all being said, It is probably less Zelda-focused a decision as it would seem.
I mean, to go up against the PS3 and yeild all that time to the X360 can't be the wisest move for Zelda itself, but better for the rest of Nintendo's portfolio, perhaps. And at the least, we could potentially get a better game. Potentially.
EDIT: Pardon the terrible grammar, I'm on lunchbreak at work.
Sweet Prince
Banned
AltogetherAndrews said:
it isn't completley obscruing backround details. it's also over NPCs, trees, and buildings. and if the object is a silhouette like you can see with a few of the NPCs, the hardware still has to render all of the pollys for the object.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Yeah well unless they're putting fog around the freakin' wolf, it's not fog!
I repeat, there is no fog in that screen. If you want to have a go at the town shots, fine, but the snow shot is fine. I can see trees off in the distance, I can see a slope behind those trees. I can see the rope bridge all the way until it gets obscured by other objects. If the white sky is tricking any of you, guess what! The sky is often white during snow! A quick google image search will prove that.
I repeat, there is no fog in that screen. If you want to have a go at the town shots, fine, but the snow shot is fine. I can see trees off in the distance, I can see a slope behind those trees. I can see the rope bridge all the way until it gets obscured by other objects. If the white sky is tricking any of you, guess what! The sky is often white during snow! A quick google image search will prove that.
I'm glad they aren't afraid to delay games anymore. Part of the reason the GC struggled was because Nintendo did not let key games come out of the gate half-baked. I totally agree with what drohne said earlier--who fucking cares about the GC's performance. The machine is pretty much dead and Nintendo knows that quite well. The quality of the newest Zelda is more important now.
As for the screens, the town scenes have me excited. They have scope that have been waiting for the 3D Zelda's to deliver for a long time. I'm not worried about the look at all if the town/towns will give gamers a lot to sink their teeth into. Besides, the games just got a huge delay--has it occurred to the folks that pissing themselves over the graphics that those underwhelming elements may be a part of what EAD wants to iron out in the delay?
As for the screens, the town scenes have me excited. They have scope that have been waiting for the 3D Zelda's to deliver for a long time. I'm not worried about the look at all if the town/towns will give gamers a lot to sink their teeth into. Besides, the games just got a huge delay--has it occurred to the folks that pissing themselves over the graphics that those underwhelming elements may be a part of what EAD wants to iron out in the delay?
Dr.Guru of Peru
played the long game
Sweet Prince said:
No it doesnt. The effect could very well be just for artistic effect (TWW also had fog to simulate weather conditions), but that isnt true.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Yeah, I don't think that's fog in the snow shot. What's the term, white haze? Still, it looks god awful.
If I had replied when I first saw the news, I probably would have been like, "AAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!" But now, I'm calmed down and reasonable about it. Although I was really looking forward to playing it in a few months, extra development time is definitely a good thing, especially if it will be spent adding a lot of substantial content.
Plus, it means less money to spend and more time to catch up on all the games I own but haven't played...heh, like that's gonna happen.
Plus, it means less money to spend and more time to catch up on all the games I own but haven't played...heh, like that's gonna happen.
I think this would've been a lot worse if Rev wasn't backwards compatible. So one way or the other Nintendo fans will be able to play Zelda next year.
That being said, I think Nintendo has a large opportunity on their hands that they should take advantage of. The Cube is dead already; especially beyond this coming Christmas season. Other than Zelda, there's not one Nintendo published game I'm aware of coming out in 2006. So why bother bringing Zelda out for the Cube?
It needs to be pushed back to the Rev. It doesn't have to make it in time for launch, it just has to be out sometime in the first 6 months of the console's life. Imagine is Resident Evil 4 had come out around the Gamecube's launch. I don't think anyone would disagree that it would've helped out the GC's image a ton (and sold a lot better) had it been around in the early days.
An awesome (and mature) looking game with great gameplay is exactly what the Gamecube needed those first few months to really pull the public in. Nintendo now has that opportunity with Zelda and I think it may be their one and only shot at grabbing the public's attention.
That being said, I think Nintendo has a large opportunity on their hands that they should take advantage of. The Cube is dead already; especially beyond this coming Christmas season. Other than Zelda, there's not one Nintendo published game I'm aware of coming out in 2006. So why bother bringing Zelda out for the Cube?
It needs to be pushed back to the Rev. It doesn't have to make it in time for launch, it just has to be out sometime in the first 6 months of the console's life. Imagine is Resident Evil 4 had come out around the Gamecube's launch. I don't think anyone would disagree that it would've helped out the GC's image a ton (and sold a lot better) had it been around in the early days.
An awesome (and mature) looking game with great gameplay is exactly what the Gamecube needed those first few months to really pull the public in. Nintendo now has that opportunity with Zelda and I think it may be their one and only shot at grabbing the public's attention.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
suaveric said:
Then Nintendo would stand to lose even its loyal fans. If they break their promises now, consumer confidence will finally reach rock bottom. And the Revolution would almost certainly suffer from this. Nintendo fans are strangely loyal, but I think this would be the final straw for many.
Dr. Strangelove
I'M COOCOO FOR COCO CRISP!
I love Zelda, but this delay is a blessing in disguise for me and many more I'm sure. There's a ton of great games coming out this fall, and now I'll have more time to play Dragon Quest VIII and Mario & Luigi 2 this November. This is an awful move for Nintendo though. I can understand their desire to make the game perfect, but if the Gamecube is basically a dead console running right now, what the hell is it going to be by March of next year?
Sweet Prince
Banned
Dr.Guru of Peru said:
ok, maybe it doesn't HAVE to, but in the Zelda shots, it is. the buildings are clearly visible. the fog isn't hiding any polygons that couldn't be displayed due the hardware not being powerful enough, there's just a slight veil of fog over them. you're seeing all the geometry that you would if the fog wasn't there at all.
I don't care about consumer confidence, sales, or anything in that regard. My only care is playing a great game and if delaying it means we will be able to play the game Nintendo has envisioned than I say that can only be a good thing.
Their are few companies out there who are willing to delay a big name game for the holiday season just to improve it. I think its great that Nintendo is doing this because Im sick and tired of playing games in the holiday season that were so obviously rushed out the door to make sales.
Why do we have so little patience? Why do we care that it will be delayed a mere 5-6 months later. We all hate now but when the game finally is released I have a strong feeling all this will be forgotten and we will only remember what a great game it was (or hopefully will turn out to be)
Their are few companies out there who are willing to delay a big name game for the holiday season just to improve it. I think its great that Nintendo is doing this because Im sick and tired of playing games in the holiday season that were so obviously rushed out the door to make sales.
Why do we have so little patience? Why do we care that it will be delayed a mere 5-6 months later. We all hate now but when the game finally is released I have a strong feeling all this will be forgotten and we will only remember what a great game it was (or hopefully will turn out to be)
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Sweet Prince said:
They're not "clearly" visible, and the buildings in the far background are merely silhouettes. This obviously allows for less texture and model detail. Are we even looking at the same damned shots?
AltogetherAndrews said:
I dunno, the Cube is already damn near rock bottom. And this delay is until next April at the earliest! Even if it does manage to come out then, the 360 will be out and the PS3 and Revolution will be mere months from launching. All of those hype trains will be running at full steam by then.
Zelda is now lost to this generation. Why not use it in the best possible way- to make the Rev as absolutly strong as possible. Any "Nintendo fan" that was going to hold out for Zelda in a sea of no other Cube releases next spring is more than likely willing to shell out for the Revolution and a better version of this Zelda.
Sweet Prince
Banned
AltogetherAndrews said:
look at the buildings on the right. is there a (technical) reason they need to be veiled with fog?
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
I really know little about this sort of thing, but if you just put a silhouette in with fog to make it seems like there are buildings back there, then I assume you can't then go up to those buildings. What with them, in reality, just being a grey 2D plane.
That would be a really weird thing to do in a town. Surely you're going to be able to walk around it all. Or can they use silhouettes and then replace them when you get closer with the actual models? If so they'd need to be able to scale the silhoette to get larger and smaller depending on how close you are to the buildings.
I can't say I can recall silhoettes in fog during the whole of the N64 era, though it was a while ago and I hardly played every game. That fog just faded in and out, like this:
So I do wonder why, if you can just do a silhouette without actually having the polygons there, it wasn't used then too.
That would be a really weird thing to do in a town. Surely you're going to be able to walk around it all. Or can they use silhouettes and then replace them when you get closer with the actual models? If so they'd need to be able to scale the silhoette to get larger and smaller depending on how close you are to the buildings.
I can't say I can recall silhoettes in fog during the whole of the N64 era, though it was a while ago and I hardly played every game. That fog just faded in and out, like this:
So I do wonder why, if you can just do a silhouette without actually having the polygons there, it wasn't used then too.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
suaveric said:
Because it'd be a slap in the face of those loyal and weathered fans that have been holding out for Zelda on Gamecube, and there is a good chance this will be final straw for many. The last thing the Revolution needs is a smaller fanbase, and that is likely to happen should Nintendo chose to break its promise of another Zelda on Gamecube. If Nintendo is the kind of company that breaks its promises and fails to support its own consoles, why should consumers have any sort of confidence in the Revolution?
