Rockin' Ranger
Member
Isn't that why Homefront's plot is the absurdity of North Korea being able to launch a successful invasion of the US?
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Doctor Stranges Erasure Of Tibet Is A Political Statement
- Thread starter Arnie7
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Isn't that why Homefront's plot is the absurdity of North Korea being able to launch a successful invasion of the US?
entremet
Member
Wow.
Didn't know it out and out pandering like this. I thought it was only avoiding controversial topics.
A Link to the Past
Banned
A good point if you could demonstrate that what Hollywood does to non-white culture and people happens to white culture and people just as often. It's a terrible excuse for whitewashing and erasure because it's entirely one-sided.
Lmfao, its like we get upset when people don't exclusively vie for our attention. Its always written off as disgusting pandering.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
I think it's Vice who regularly does articles about America but written like it is an American writing about other third world countries.
OP's quoted source is pretty much rife with that type of editorializing.
OP's quoted source is pretty much rife with that type of editorializing.
Most obvious counter to this post: if Tibetans are cool being part of China then why does the Chinese government spend so much time and effort silencing dissidents?
CaviarMeths
Member
Nah, I'm not standing on this slippery slope.
Yeah, back when that interview with one of the writers(?) came out where he said the big problem would be that they can't say Tibet 'exists' in the Marvel Universe because of China, I was amazed that he actually said that out loud. I figure he probably got shit for admitting that in public from Disney, but Jesus Christ, that's insane.
It's sickening what people will do for money. I know Marvel/Disney are faceless organisations that are just out to make money-printing products with the least amount of controversy, but hearing one of the writers say that they can't use Tibet because its mere existence would be insulting for China is absolutely, completely insane.
He could have just said the original Ancient One was a racist stereotype and that would be that. He'd be right. That extra reason makes me very sad, and it also makes me sad that so many people on the internet are okay with it as long as they get to see a bunch of people dress up as comic book characters and have some CG fights. Total lack of perspective.
It's sickening what people will do for money. I know Marvel/Disney are faceless organisations that are just out to make money-printing products with the least amount of controversy, but hearing one of the writers say that they can't use Tibet because its mere existence would be insulting for China is absolutely, completely insane.
He could have just said the original Ancient One was a racist stereotype and that would be that. He'd be right. That extra reason makes me very sad, and it also makes me sad that so many people on the internet are okay with it as long as they get to see a bunch of people dress up as comic book characters and have some CG fights. Total lack of perspective.
Minorities are treated way worse in Hollywood, but have you ever seen a WW2 film?
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's not a slippery slope, a slippery slope would be "what if this lead to that." What's happening is that a like situation is being brought up, and you're being asked whether you would find it disgusting or not. Or like the example I posted, do you find it disgusting that MTV excluded black artists out of fears of losing its white audience?
I'm not sure what you mean.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
"If Americans were cool with being American why did the government have a copy pepper spray dissidents at UC Davis and then pay the cop a couple hundred grand for his service".
Or a more pertinent example would be state violence against black Americans.
I know plenty of Americans that are just dandy with being American in spite of.
I'm not trying to go down the road of whataboutism, but loud protestors and political pressure don't really paint much of a picture.
ScatheZombie
Member
The Ministry of Culture for China has basically the same outlook on homosexuals as the Russian government does - so, in effect, this is already happening. Though they mostly just edit anything out that's an explicit expression of homosexuality or a homosexual relationship rather than not having those characters at all in global releases.
King Tubby
Member
Oh, I'm not saying they haven't, but I'm using an analogy that is more obviously similar to make my point (and others here have brought up other, less hypothetical examples).
It's not a slippery slope. I literally took the exact same situation and changed the nation and the political issue. The only difference is that I chose a political issue that more people on this forum are likely to have an understanding of or emotional connection to.
CaviarMeths
Member
So if it's not a slope, you're asking me how I feel about two entirely unrelated scenarios.
Those are obviously bad things.
Hello? This is Hailun!
Member
This is also not being properly reported in the west.
This is Jin Xing
A Chinese Korean born in Shanghai. She is also an open transexual.
She is also plastered all over Chinese state TV and is incredibly popular. State TV ran a 24 hour marathon of her dance instructions and work shops about a week ago.
One of many examples of people outside of traditional gender/sex roles that are very prevalent and not repressed by the State.
A Link to the Past
Banned
If you think that they are entirely unrelated, then I don't know what to tell you. They are entirely the same scenarios but with different variables.
1. MTV excludes black people to avoid offending white people.
2. Marvel excludes Tibet/Tibetan people to avoid offending the Chinese government.
3. X company excludes LGBT people to avoid offending the Russian government.
It's a company pandering to a powerful majority for the sake of profit and the detriment of marginalized people.
American films completely downplay allied involvement in any depicted battles and paint the picture of the war being Heroic Americans against the Germans. Look at U571, a film with a fictious plot that gives American Navy personnel credit for capturing the German enigma machine even though British Navy did that before the US had even declared war.
Yeah, this stuff continually sticks out like a sore thumb by how many times we've seen it come up in recent years.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Well that wasn't really what I meant, I meant more as in removing white people/culture and replacing them with non-white people and their culture. In those cases, it's erasing white culture, but replacing it with another white culture (typically the culture that the film creators partake in). Not that it isn't a problem, but it's a separate problem from what I'm talking about.
Part of it is the same reason they changed the Mandarin. The ancient all-wise oriental mystic sitting at the top of some mountain ready to pass on their knowledge to the worthy White pilgrim is a racist stereotype. Part of it is avoiding beef wih China over Tibet's status.
What?
You do know that Tibet is in Asia right?
And that Tilda Swinton isn't Asian or Tibetan?
wow, seeing all these examples lined up is unsettling.
CaviarMeths
Member
I'm admittedly not well-read on the political climate. Are Tibetans marginalized? Would making a stand for Tibetan Independence be a more noble move for Marvel than avoiding a racist and potentially offensive stereotype to a very large audience?
ScatheZombie
Member
This is also not being properly reported in the west.
This is Jin Xing
A Chinese Korean born in Shanghai. She is also an open transexual.
She is also plastered all over Chinese state TV and is incredibly popular. State TV ran a 24 hour marathon of her dance instructions and work shops about a week ago.
One of many examples of people outside of traditional gender/sex roles that are very prevalent and not repressed by the State.
Ministry of Culture has different rules for foreign media. For example, games developed within China - or developed with a Chinese partner - have far less rules and regulations to adhere to than one developed entirely by a foreign studio/publisher. That's why so many online game companies now have Chinese partners (Blizzard) or are partly owned by Chinese game companies (Riot) - and why so many film studios have the same partnerships. Getting through the Ministry of Culture is the biggest hurdle to releasing content in China and some of their rules are extremely strict - and even 'ban' things that aren't normally banned for native Chinese media. Explicit expressions of homosexual relationships is one of them - probably because of the government's current stance on gay marriage.
Except it doesn't have to lean into being a stereotype unless they write it that way.
Casting Tilda shows they're not going to write the character that way, so why are they not casting an asian for the role?
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Clearly you've never been to the US. There are American flags everywhere. There's a thirty-foot one flying over my local Mercedes dealership. Giant American flag, German cars...
WrenchNinja
Member
Right so instead we have ancient white mystic in the middle of Asia to teach the white cynic the mysticism of another culture
Sounds like a totally great substitute for ancient old asian man stereotype
Yknow what would have avoided all of this? If they cast an Asian women. Or any other minority.
What does this have to do with the whitewashing of one of the few Asian characters in MCU and the surrounding nonsense? It's like pointing out that for the Ancient One they're casting a woman, a severely underrepresented demographic in MCU. Doesn't change anything regarding the discussion and it doesn't absolve them.
People would have still complained about the white guy going to an Asian master and becoming the all powerful chosen one.
Is this supposed to cancel out the criticism of Tilda Swinton?
Ancient one was from a fictional country like Doctor Doom in the comics. I dont know where Tibet came from. Maybe that country's location being in the Himalayas.
Chairmanchuck
Member
Regardless of what the government thinks or says, they never follow up with it.
You have gay couples in the dramas there, one of the most popular shows in China right now is a talkshow of a post-op trans-woman, that talks about those issues.
What Hailun said...
And then you still have CCTV dramas running on CCTV about the problems of gay couples during the Revolution or "traveling Beijing with a gay couple".
And Jin Xing isnt a product of foreign media. The state knows how popular she is and lets her talk about issues trans and gay people face in China, especially in towns.
Here is her Wiki-page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Xing
Oh, didnt knew this. Interesting.
And this wasnt retconned?
Also why is Tibet heavily militaraly monitored and westerners are largely prohibited from visiting or talking to the populace.
Regardless of if Tibet was part of original Dr strange or not that does not erase the fact that pretty much any ethnic group that is not Han and particularly if it's a religious ethnic group, is heavily marginalized in Chinese society.
Its just a shame that Hollywood not only marginalizes minorities in America but apparently like to assist foreign governments in doing it as well.
Google tells me he's Tibetan, so I guess it was retconned. Dunno much about comics themselves.
I know that, but also, there is a history of whitewashing in Hollywood where many Asian roles go to white people. If it's not one reason, it's another reason as to why Hollywood thinks it's fine not to cast an Asian person for a minority role.
Specifically in this case, one of the writers for the movie stated that they casted Tilda Swinton BECAUSE of the Tibet and China issue. If Disney is removing all mentions of Tibet from the movie, then what is their excuse now for whitewashing this role?
Yes, I do know that. See above for what I meant in my original post.
WrenchNinja
Member
And people would be right to complain. maybe they should have thought about that when they decided to stick with Stephen being another white super hero on film
Instead they have pushed it even further and now we have a white person becoming a master learning from another white person in the middle of Asia
A Link to the Past
Banned
In which case Marvel is actually even shittier because there's no political or economic reasons to make the Ancient One white. It's straight-up whitewashing.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
Seems about time we put Marvel in check. Surprised so many fanboys are defending this/aren't as vocal against Marvel's tactics..thanks.
Who is defending this? I dont see many people doing that
A Link to the Past
Banned
You'll always find a gaggle of them. Star Wars fans defended to the death the fact that we went one and a half movies without a major non-white character.
This is like the third or fourth thread about it, and every time we have people defending it (such as the person earlier who said that Marvel movies aren't history).
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