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Yoko Taro (Nier Automata) Addresses the 2B butt controversy
- Thread starter Sheentak
- Start date
Audioboxer
Member
?
Are you trying to say that isn't the case? My ex-cosplayed as Amaterasu at Eurogame Expo one year simply because... she liked the character design. She is a gamer, but hadn't played Okami.
I'm sure that'll "offend" some gamers that subscribe to the whole "you've not even played game x, you're not a fan!", but hey, the costume, face painting and shield that was made was awesome. So yeah, people do cosplay because they like character designs and/or feel said designs will show off something about them (either their ability to create elaborate costumes, do elaborate makeup, or shock horror, feel sexy!).
Don't sell yourself short.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Characters from the castlevania fighting game overdesigned by the artist from death note
The group is a Castlevania Judgement group, the worst design to pretty much every castlevaina character
The dude alone is Luso from Final Fantasy Tacticts Advance 2
I mean that people cosplay characters for ALL SHORT OF REASON. Saying every cosplay is because they liked the design is as shit as saying that your ex has no right to cosplay ammy
Sure, feel free to ignore the history of one of japans most progressive game creators because of a joke he made on twitter.
And then go on and wonder why they don't give a shit about your criticism.
Schopenhauerian
Member
michaelius
Banned
While there's nothing wrong with conversation is there really any point to it considering there's no real middle ground between those spectrums ?
Is there any place for compromise when one side aims to remove all sexualized content from games ? And other one doesn't want any changes ?
I got no idea why we can't simply vote with wallets over what we prefer.
killatopak
Member
What did they do?
Dargor
Member
Probably talking about the sex scenes and what not.
But isnt that the case? Otherwise they'd put a whole lot of energy into something they don't like
Audioboxer
Member
I'm certain they probably have? God of War has always been under criticism for violence, gore, nudity and sex. It is what it is though, in that it wears its content on it's sleeve. No one is buying an 18/M rated God of War game and expecting a casual walking simulator in a forest. Hence why I've argued in here objective criticism/expectations have to be realistic. Some adult content is going to exist, and some of it will have sexual content.
Watch any film or TV show around Rome/Greek Mythology and your eyes will suffer far more from rampant orgies and gore than from a GoW game
Where did I ever say that? My whole point is people cosplay for tons of reasons, and for some that is going to mean having to accept sexuality is one of those reasons.
Halo and Mass Effect are worse offenders when it comes to sexualized robots/ai, imo.
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The designs are completely unnecessary, lazy, and out of tone with their games.
Well, I guess EDI isn't too far removed from the general female body type and armor in ME. Still, it's hilariously dumb.
The designs are completely unnecessary, lazy, and out of tone with their games.
Well, I guess EDI isn't too far removed from the general female body type and armor in ME. Still, it's hilariously dumb.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Castlevania
What in the world is this??
Cortana was super egregious in Halo 1 but you can see that progression as she was rendered more and more realistically she was a borderline fertility figure by Halo 4. But again they sorta rectified that with Halo 5 so at least they're listening. Edi is just wtf even happened there tier.PSY・S;227899052 said:Halo and Mass Effect are worse offenders when it comes to sexualized robots/ai, imo.
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The designs are completely unnecessary, lazy, and out of tone with their games.
Well, I guess EDI isn't too far removed from the general female body type and armor in ME. Still, it's hilariously dumb.
SolidSnakex
Member
Kratos straps a woman to a device that rips her in half and a trophy pops up saying "I Didn't do it....But I wish I did". The thing is, killing a random innocent person to complete a puzzle is something Kratos does in each of the games. It's just that time it was a woman.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Nobody cares about sexuality in God of War because God of War is purile trash. It's like pointing out the misogyny in Transformers 5, it's old hat and expected.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
PSY・S;227899052 said:Halo and Mass Effect are worse offenders when it comes to sexualized robots/ai, imo.
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The designs are completely unnecessary, lazy, and out of tone with their games.
Well, I guess EDI isn't too far removed from the general female body type and armor in ME. Still, it's hilariously dumb.
I think EDI is hilariously bad, because of the need to make an intelligent AI into a sexbot.
This discussion could really be 2 pages long, if it wasn't for the usual bullshit arguments the two sides of the pond throw at each other regardless of subject matter (meaning, you could put BLANK, in place of every Nier mention, and the arguments wouldn't change).
Here's a quick guide:
1. Yes the characters are sexualized, don't pretend they aren't.
2. No, it doesn't matter if you can fight on heels in real life, this isn't real life and it's not trying to emulate real life.
3. Both male and female characters in the game are more or less sexually charged in design, the design is tonally consistent across the board, for the most part.
4. The reason why they're sexualized is because the character designer wanted them this way, you don't have to like it.
5. No one cares what great lore wankery explains the character having an ass like a peach.
But really the pretend discussion of how you can or cannot (or IF you can) justify having the character wear sexy outfits is as tedious as watching people argue whether Santa Claus exists or not.
People can cosplay because they liked the motivations, because they liked the game the character is in, because they look like the character, because they liked the reaction the character has, because they like the poses the character make, because the costume is easy or hard to make, because it show their body in awesome way, because whatever.
And to be true, a quiet cosplay can be made in 5 minutes by anyone so it is not like it has lots of energy going on
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
I don't know but I always found that simon design hilarious. Straight up ready for an s&m porn shot bulging dick and all
Well she does fuck a dude
I don't know about others, but I'd be satisfied if they just gave her some stockings. It would go a long way to making it less creepy and silly. I played the demo and really like her character design, until I dashed or something and her skirt blew up and I was like wait wtf is she naked under there? What possible reason is there for that other than giving 14 years old's a boner? Can you imagine the splinters? The bugs? She's zipping around pretty fast after all.
Well instead of going 'heheh I wank over my own characters' maybe he could try explaining why she's been designed that way? If it's no other reason than 'cause it's sexy', can you really not understand why people would be upset/annoyed? Not saying it's unethical, and of course artists can do whatever the hell they want in their games/movies/music, doesn't mean fans can't be disappointed or critical.
This is not to mention what a woman or girl thinks when they pick up this cool game with a girl as the main character, only to see her bits flapping in the breeze for all to see.
killatopak
Member
I see. Yeah I remember it now. Pretty surprised it happened actually. I remember my parenta watching me play that segment and I could hear the collective gasps. It pales in comparison to what happened next tho.
they watched the aphrodite part with me
Wasn't she a spy though?
I'm pretty sure EDI had a straight up cameltoe too.
Try to find Shanoa in that pic
This game is rated M and Taro games have always had violence, gore, nudity and sex.
In fact, I'd say Taro games have a lot more fucked up violence/sexual themes than God of War did.
Drakengard 1 had a female cannibal, a psychotic murderer who slaughters children and a pedophile who is hated and struggling with his affliction. Drakengard 3 had a former prostitute with a reverse harem, a female rapist, and a man who puts his dick into literally every hole ever whether alive or non-living. Nier had a hermaphrodite who fucks a dead corpse, a young boy forced into a fucked up skeleton body, and a father doing whatever it takes to save his daughter.
Jangowuzhere
Banned
I'm not sure why people are taking this specific female character design so seriously. Tonally, this game is completely stupid and completely over the top anime. Heck, the end of the demo has you jumping into a giant mech and beating a giant super boss to death with its own arm. At some point, the character designs end up matching the absurdity of the action.
It's not something like MGSV, a game that actually wants to be taken seriously with its subject matter. This is despite the fact that a naked sniper lady flaunts her butt at you constantly.
It's not something like MGSV, a game that actually wants to be taken seriously with its subject matter. This is despite the fact that a naked sniper lady flaunts her butt at you constantly.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Poseidon princess. You drag here along the level as she begs for mercy. Then strap her to a device that rips her in half in order to go through a door. All this while her breasts are flopping around in view. Pretty gross is a bit of an understatement. If a scene like that were put into a triple A game today holy shit the backlash the studio would've gotten would be immense. But GoW 3 came out six year ago. Where the criticism of sexism and such in games was just about hitting it's stride.
SapphiCine
Member
I could respect him more if he wasn't responsible for approving Kaine's design.
Eolz
Member
I'm not sure that judging cosplay by putting pictures of terrible cosplays (while good cosplays of the same characters likely exist) is proving any point, nor is done in good faith...
edit just in case: not saying some of those are good character design, just that bad pictures aren't proving any point. The same would be for posting bad cosplay of "good" western characters (games or comics)
edit just in case: not saying some of those are good character design, just that bad pictures aren't proving any point. The same would be for posting bad cosplay of "good" western characters (games or comics)
Urbanrats, except for the disappointing "both sides" in your post, I wish those bullet points were the very introductory premise of all these threads. That would at the very least move any conversation further than constantly having to shoot down the ad-hoc explanations of why people simply just like to have anime T 'n A in their games regardless of their diegetic reasoning.
Schopenhauerian
Member
Audioboxer
Member
It's maybe not the most elaborate costume, but I'll tell you it takes some confidence or guts to do it. I'll assume you're a man for a second, would you rock some speedos based costume and walk around an event with 5~10k+ plus people, cameras, video recorders and more? lol.
I don't disagree, hence how I highlighted how Taro has made content in this vein for a while and is honest about it. Same goes for Santa Monica and GoW. It is adult content with themes that will only appeal to those who don't get grossed out by them. There's no gotcha moments, or an otherwise fairly teen/family rated game with constant tits n ass references skirting ratings guidelines. These games are the type you know 100% upfront what you are buying into.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It was there to show kratos doesn't give a flying fuck if you are man or woman. Yeah it's super fucked up but everything kratos does to people is fucked up. Gender doesn't mean shit to him. Is showcasing brutal violence towards women something that shouldn't be allowed then? If not why? What would your answer be, to never have women in combat situations in games where brutal violence happens in favor of the player?
That trophy title tho
Are you sure you played the demo? She is wearing stockings and a leotard, you can't actually see her panties.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I am very confident in saying that I'm not missing much, anime boy. Especially when a fan of his work can only scrap together this pathetic post then display some counterpoint to my post.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I mean, does that really needed to happen?
Joker and EDI could have worked on a more platonic way too.
And even so, was there any need to make her look...like that?
She was an AI created by Cerberus but she ends on your side
Yep, ridiculous.
capylikesgames
Banned
Yikes! I am excited for this one, really. And I swear I don't mind fanservice. I see the problems with it, but it's never been an issue to the point where I can't look past it, as long as the game itself is good. And Automata looks great! However, seeing this rubs me the wrong way. I'm getting really tired of people involved with a game coming out and acting like a group of people are aggressively pushing for them to remove fanservice from their game. There will be people who roll their eyes publicly, sure, but when has there ever been a situation when there's a big hate mob that violently pressured a dev to remove fanservice from their game, and it actually went through? If anything, it's usually a civil discussion of why it is bad between a couple of people, then everyone and their neighbor dogpiles them and tells them they're being "too politically correct", and to "stop censoring developers". It's super childish. I wont say names, but I know what audience this baseless outrage appeals to, and they aren't pleasant people. To see a dev try and feed that crowd makes no sense, IMO. This tweet will do nothing but spark nonsense. Any praise he's getting for "standing up" is undeserved. He'll always have the right to create and admire fanservice, as does everyone else, and anyone who believes otherwise is lying to themselves.
killatopak
Member
Wow. Surely you can argue and criticize someone without insults?
Because your post was so highly intelligent and worthy of discussion to begin with.
G8 B8 M8
I don't think him making a joke on twitter implies people cant voice their opinions on his game's designs.
Infact, i think it's a better approach than going full Kojima or Bungie, and trying to explain why your sexy character just HAD to show her ass.
The truth is you wanted a sexy design 'cause you liked it, some people may not like it, that's fine, no need to make it into a big drama (and infact, no one did).
Butts should be bringing people together, not tearing them apart. :/
The exact same thing happened to me. I thought my game was glitching for a moment. I think making the leotard cover more (edit: and darker!) would be good enough. Strategically placed shadows works too lol.
You said in the comment I replied to as "japanese games which have non sexualized female player characters". I mean, the character in souls games for most part is based on the player. Also, since they really want to go "hard invested" into their setting its why you don't see skimpy armor sets in their games, since they are invested in their heavily western based setting. Where as Nier is its own kinda thing with its own quirks. What works in soulborne setting wise wouldn't work in Nier and also the other way around.
This is not saying "japanese creators are unable to make non sexualized characters" since thats clearly not the case as games like metal gear solid and final fantasy which are heavily critized for characters like Quiet and Cidny, they have created great characters like Meryl and Iris.
I am saying its kinda cheating to say the player character is non sexualized when the player is making the character themselves. Your hunter/chosen undead could be completely different from some one elses.
Is your whole point of entering this thread to just antagonize people?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Pretty sure I've heard GoW3 get criticized? What do you mean, "escaped criticism"?
I think you missed some part of the conversation here. I was sarcastically replying to someone who said "if you don't like these sexualized designs go play something else!". The point is... there isn't much to play left if I did that. So I sarcastically said, "k, guess I'll stick to Bloodborne", because honestly, if I want a Japanese action-RPG with a non-sexualized female protagonist, all I have as an option is a game where I make my own character. And uh, Ys Origin I guess.
My point was that the whole "play something else" is missing the point, it's the fact that sexualized female protagonists are so damn common that it's rare to even have the alternative option.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
The womanly figure made sense in the long run, the over the top stuff with the camel toe, not so much lol
That's their gimmick, they never provide actual discussion
Oh dear...
SolidSnakex
Member
He's joking around. This Taro
http://www.siliconera.com/2016/12/2...w-fantasy-rpg-project-yoko-taro-way-possible/
He'd later ask them for a job on Twitter.
The character designer mentioned that he had a lot of freedom with this title, and that Yoko specifically asked him for black outfits and that two of the three main characters should wear blindfolds.
So there's a good chance he doesn't really have a strong reason other than "I liked Yoshida's design".
Are you simply here to start shit?