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[arvfab]

lol no that isn't what's going on here. Not console warring either. I own both consoles. The developer himself tells DF he didn't port the PS4 game to PS5, that he went further and rewrote the engine for the PS5's low level APIs, something people are conveniently trying to gloss over and ignore. Saying the PS5's memory setup and clock speed helped isn't the same as saying the Series X can't achieve 8K because of those differences. Series X at launch didn't benefit from the kind of engine rewrite by the sounds of what the developer said. Seems Series X is running a port of the Xbox One X game that's been updated for Series X, rather than a whole sale engine rewritten specific to the series x's strengths.

If I'm wrong, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with PS5 being better at something. We do know the PS5 should have a pixel fillrate advantage, for what's that's worth, but my understanding has always been that few games ever truly bump against those limits and are sooner to be limited by other inefficiencies in an engine. Maybe this just one such case with this particular game. I'm fine with that. I was just going off of the way things were written and explained, as well as the timing of the releases all things considered. Even shadows are done differently in the PS5 version.

As we are in the realm of suppositions:

What if he rewrote the engine for the low level PS5 API because he could, but couldn't go any lower on Xbox?

 

[Kerotan]

I know off topic.

But every time I see threads with that title makes me really miss Tourist Trophy.

Why? why? why?

The real riding simulator featuring leasure suit Larry.

EDIT :

Now we just need an 8k 120fps game!

 

[MaxwellParrish]

Fun game, I really enjoyed it. I don't think this game running at 8K/60 makes any difference over 4K/60 though, 4K 120fps would make way more sense and would be a much more noticeable improvement and require way less from the hardware.

I wonder It you have looked at the DF video, because I actually find the difference between the Ps5 version and the Serie X version surprisingly quite evident, and apparently this Is mainly due to the increased resolution. I suppose it's the very clean graphical style that make It so evident, because usually I hardly see the difference between even the Ps4 and the Ps5 versione of the same game in this sort of video
Edit : Cutter out some quote that I had inserted without the intention. Sorry for that

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

It doesn’t look like “you couldn’t care less”… the opposite.

I don't care of the results. I only care of the silly conclusions you guys come to from said results.

Still not answered the question: what did cause your reaction?

What reaction? Calling you a shit?

 

[arvfab]

What reaction? Calling you a shit?

Actually, calling yourself a shit and saying how a post of mine was worse.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

As we are in the realm of suppositions:

What if he rewrote the engine for the low level PS5 API because he could, but couldn't go any lower on Xbox?

Good, now we're getting somewhere. That's also a possibility. Not one I buy, but If that's the case, then that's just the case, and that's a credit to the PS5 and its low level API. See? That honestly wasn't so hard. I only wanted to see an acknowledgment of it.

Just as the PS5 clock speed and memory setup can potentially be an advantage for this particular game and its engine, so too can the low level API of the PS5 be an advantage. Remember, Sony once did some heavy, and I mean heavy, research into the very technique this game is built on and said that they actually made adjustments to the PS4 architecture with those things in mind. What are the chances that the PS5 carried those over? No joke, go look it up. I forgot who made the game, but if you look for the interview I'm sure you'll find it. I don't know if it was Mark Cerny who said it, or the technical director who built the game.

There was a cool arcade game built for PS4, loved the game, but I can't remember what the hell it was called, but it was 100% made on the very technique that this game is made on, and it was stated PS4 was optimized for those things in their collab with AMD.

edit:

RESOGUN!!!

 

[arvfab]

Good, now we're getting somewhere. That's also a possibility. Not one I buy, but If that's the case, then that's just the case, and that's a credit to the PS5 and its low level API. See? That honestly wasn't so hard. I only wanted to see an acknowledgment of it.

Just as the PS5 clock speed and memory setup can potentially be an advantage for this particular game and its engine, so too can the low level API of the PS5 be an advantage. Remember, Sony once did some heavy, and I mean heavy, research into the very technique this game is built on and said that they actually made adjustments to the PS4 architecture with those things in mind. What are the chances that the PS5 carried those over? No joke, go look it up. I forgot who made the game, but if you look for the interview I'm sure you'll find it. I don't know if it was Mark Cerny who said it, or the technical director who built the game.

There was a cool arcade game built for PS4, loved the game, but I can't remember what the hell it was called, but it was 100% made on the very technique that this game is made on, and it was stated PS4 was optimized for those things in their collab with AMD.

Well, that's exactly what I have been saying from the beginning: for HIS game, HIS engine, PS5 is better.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Shifty1897]

Off topic, but The Touryst is great way to spend a weekend, if you're looking for something to play.

 

[Shmunter]

Coding to the console brings the results. The sooner the last gen gets left behind, the sooner the PS5’s forward thinking architecture can breathe.

 

[VargasPaPuM]

Now this game is a big deal....
Before wth 6K multiple people said mehhhh..

 

[lh032]

Damn PS5 is a beast.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Well, that's exactly what I have been saying from the beginning: for HIS game, HIS engine, PS5 is better.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I personally don't buy that being the case, but it's okay if you do. A basic understanding of the hardware tells you that a 90%+ (nearly 100%) pixel resolution advantage simply isn't possible between the two pieces of hardware without it being a game development related matter. Developer had more time with the PS5 version and made it count with a proper engine rewrite targeting PS5's strengths. They had less time with the Series X version prior to launch, so Series X got what it got for the time.

Pretty straightforward enough.

 

[akaFullmetal]

Crazy performance gain compared to PS4. Surprising it's higher than Xbox 6k.

 

[TLZ]

Damn PS5 is a beast.

Beast
e
a
s
t

Coding to the console brings the results. The sooner the last gen gets left behind, the sooner the PS5’s forward thinking architecture can breathe.

That's why I prefer exclusives. Just concentrate on one console and bring the best out of it.

Edit: had to fix my English. Duno what happened there.

 

[arvfab]

I personally don't buy that being the case, but it's okay if you do. A basic understanding of the hardware tells you that a 90%+ (nearly 100%) pixel resolution advantage simply isn't possible between the two pieces of hardware without it being a game development related matter. Developer had more time with the PS5 version and made it count with a proper engine rewrite targeting PS5's strengths. They had less time with the Series X version prior to launch, so Series X got what it got for the time.

Pretty straightforward enough.

And now let's go in the Hitman 3 comparison threads and bring the same arguments in favor of the PS5.

There we have a similar situation (although not quite as far apart), but I can't remember you being there talking about engine optimizations etc.

Because, you know, people on this forum have been saying since a while that the consoles are pretty close to each other, and depending on the engine/dev, it might perform better on either of them.

 

[clintar]

Gotta love how John calls going from 6K on Xbox Series X to 8K on PlayStation 5 a "slight boost." Wonder if he realizes that 6K resolution is only 52.5% 56% the pixel count of 8K resolution (both in 16:9 ratio). That "slight" increase in internal rendering is basically DOUBLE the pixel count lol.

6K res (16:9) = 5568x3132 = ~ 17.44 million pixels
8K res (16:9) = 7680x4320 = ~ 33.18 million pixels

edit - had 6k a bit wrong

6K res (16:9) = 5760x3240 = ~ 18.66 million pixels
8K res (16:9) = 7680x4320 = ~ 33.18 million pixels

I came here to point out this "slight boost", too. holy crap, what a take.

 

[sinnergy]

It’s almost a 2D game it’s that simple , what a triumph for PS5 , it’s amazing ! Beautiful really!

 

[Physiognomonics]

It’s almost a 2D game it’s that simple , what a triumph for PS5 , it’s amazing ! Beautiful really!

What nonsense is this? It's a 3D game with a 3rd person view + manual camera.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

It’s almost a 2D game it’s that simple , what a triumph for PS5 , it’s amazing ! Beautiful really!

Oh damn, you bitter

 

[Kenpachii]

only 60 fps?

1070 could do 8k 100 fps in minecraft already years ago

 

[assurdum]

And now let's go in the Hitman 3 comparison threads and bring the same arguments in favor of the PS5.

There we have a similar situation (although not quite as far apart), but I can't remember you being there talking about engine optimizations etc.

Because, you know, people on this forum have been saying since a while that the consoles are pretty close to each other, and depending on the engine/dev, it might perform better on either of them.

Don't waste your time, it's useless with him. Everything is better on ps5, it's just dimishing return, bad coding on XSX and so on. He will never accept faster GPU can have his own advantage. It's all about have more CUs for him. And we all know why. Seems almost design from the ground a GPU SOC it's useless but it's better recycle the same tech and modified it in your way to achieve better perfomance. We have reached a new paradigm in the tech narrative.

 

[Vognerful]

Well, that's exactly what I have been saying from the beginning: for HIS game, HIS engine, PS5 is better.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Isn't the fact that he had to rewrite his engine, means it was not better?

 

[arvfab]

Isn't the fact that he had to rewrite his engine, means it was not better?

No

 

[sendit]

I personally don't buy that being the case, but it's okay if you do. A basic understanding of the hardware tells you that a 90%+ (nearly 100%) pixel resolution advantage simply isn't possible between the two pieces of hardware without it being a game development related matter. Developer had more time with the PS5 version and made it count with a proper engine rewrite targeting PS5's strengths. They had less time with the Series X version prior to launch, so Series X got what it got for the time.

Pretty straightforward enough.

 

[Vognerful]

No

I don't get you.

Before rewriting the engine, he got 4k

After rewriting, he got 8k.

So it was worse before.

 

[arvfab]

I don't get you.

Before rewriting the engine, he got 4k

After rewriting, he got 8k.

So it was worse before.

Before rewriting the engine, it was a PS4 game.

 

[Md Ray]

only 60 fps?

1070 could do 8k 100 fps in minecraft already years ago

Nice troll post. But can it do 4K/120fps and 8K/60 in the Touryst?

 

[Vognerful]

Before rewriting the engine, it was a PS4 game.

No
It was not running backwards compatibility. He created a port. Then he decided to readjust the engine

 

[arvfab]

No
It was not running backwards compatibility. He created a port. Then he decided to readjust the engine

You said it: he created a port, so it was a PS4 game running on PS5.

 

[Md Ray]

I only care of the silly conclusions you guys come to from said results.

As I've been saying for quite a while, for certain workloads PS5 is better. For others XSX is better. Is this so hard to accept even after a dev's confirmation?

It's almost like tech is complicated and can't just be boiled down to "x better than y", but that's too complicated of a concept for some people it seems.

 

[MrLove]

VRR increase magically from 6k to 8k, dont worry.

 

[Vognerful]

You said it: he created a port, so it was a PS4 game running on PS5.

You don't need a port to run a PS4 game on a ps5.

 

[arvfab]

You don't need a port to run a PS4 game on a ps5.

You also don't need to make your game "optimized for Series X|S" and just run the One version. But he did, optimized for the Series consoles as he optimized for PS5. You know, basically what every dev should do but often do not....

 

[ParaSeoul]

Now this game is a big deal....
Before wth 6K multiple people said mehhhh..

8K>6K

 

[Vognerful]

As I've been saying for quite a while, for certain workloads PS5 is better. For others XSX is better. Is this so hard to accept even after a dev's confirmation?

It's almost like tech is complicated and can't just be boiled down to "x better than y", but that's too complicated of a concept for some people it seems.

It is a 2 way street. A lot of people will claim that both machines have advantages in some sort, but then will never refuse to accept that in any specific case.

But your response to the following comment:

Touryst is exactly that kind of scenario, I mean, it's a Switch game after all, it lushes nothing but pure polygons, there are no advanced shaders, particles and so on. I'm playing Art of Rally and that's another example of very basic graphics that should work better on PS5. But other than that, in any modern title, even cross-gens, this kind of design solution simply doesn't work that well, we're already seeing games regularly being rendered at 1400-1600p on PS5 vs 1800p-4K on XSX (so same scenarios as Pro vs 1X basically), where in theory it's the PS5 that should've push higher resolutions thanks to it's high frequencies, fillrate etc., but that's simply not the case, because there's way more in modern rendering than nust polygons.

Speaking of the game itself, while downsampling is nice, I've beed doing it on PC throughout entire OS4/XB1 gen, I highly recommend the 120FPS mode - the game still looks stunning but runs sooo damn smooth instead. And I hope the dev's mentioned next project is the sequel, because the game is absolutely amazing and I'd love to experience more of this stuff.

with a dismissive:

What games are these?

resolution target was not the correct term when comparing the 4k dynamic mode of both machines, it is almost a trend that ps5 would drop in resolution in certain scenes much lower than XSX.

 

[Vognerful]

You also don't need to make your game "optimized for Series X|S" and just run the One version. But he did, optimized for the Series consoles as he optimized for PS5. You know, basically what every dev should do but often does not....

Optimized for series machines means a native port but no where to the level of rewriting the engine, they are almost a pc port with xbox tag on it. that is the idea. you don't need to work a lot to bring your games from pc to xbox.

it has nothing to do with coding the core.

 

[polybius80]

I don't get you.

Before rewriting the engine, he got 4k

After rewriting, he got 8k.

So it was worse before.

no, it doesnt mean it was worse and it wasn't because they "rewrote the code" that by itself doesn't mean much, the developer specifically mention that the difference comes from higher speed and how the memory is setup on PS5

porting a game already require rewriting code and recompile, the emphasis in the change comes because there is a part that was changed how it manages the rendering taking into account the different specs and functions from PS5's API that allowed that improvement and the developer understood that it allowed to make the back buffer 8k without problems and why, we can only speculate what was changed but its fair to say they couldnt use XBSX in a similar way due to what was pointed(speed and memory arrangement) at least in their engine

 

[polybius80]

Optimized for series machines means a native port but no where to the level of rewriting the engine, they are almost a pc port with xbox tag on it. that is the idea. you don't need to work a lot to bring your games from pc to xbox.

it has nothing to do with coding the core.

then "optimized for Series X|S" = its not really optimized?

is the "optimized for Series X|S" required for each port or I can make a native port and not use the label?

and you know this because you work for MS?

 

[Vognerful]

no, it doesnt mean it was worse and it wasn't because they "rewrote the code" that by itself doesn't mean much, the developer specifically mention that the difference comes from higher speed and how the memory is managed on PS5

porting a game already require rewriting code and recompile, the emphasis in the change comes because there is a part that was changed how it manages the rendering taking into account the different specs and functions from PS5's API that allowed that improvement and the developer understood that it allowed to make the back buffer 8k without problems and why, we can only speculate what was changed but its fair to say they couldnt use XBSX in a similar way due to what was pointed(speed and memory arrangement) at least in their engine

Appreciate your reply.

but he did explicitly say that was also part of the reasons he was able to achieve it.

 

[Vognerful]

then "optimized for Series X|S" = its not really optimized?

is the "optimized for Series X|S" required for each port or I can make a native port and not use the label?

and you know this because you work for MS?

no, not all titles.

if your game can be ported with minimal help and still reaches 4k60fps for example, why do you want to spend more resources on optimization?

 

[polybius80]

Appreciate your reply.

but he did explicitly say that was also part of the reasons he was able to achieve it.

what else?

saying the speed and memory setup sound like were decisive here

 

[Vognerful]

what other part it was?

one was faster GPU and memory configuration.

so all 3? do you agree?

 

[Coolwhhip]

5 pages already, there is a lot of interest in this indie game!

 

[JerryinSoCal]

I much prefer this low poly style over 2D pixel art, specially with the great performance and visual clarity. I'd like to see more games like that from indies.

The only pixel art I like is the kind that is mixed with more modern things like "The Last Night" has great lighting and rain effects etc so it helps me to overlook the pixel art style. I'd still much rather that game use detailed models. I played enough pixel art style games when that was all that could be done, I don't get how some thing doing that is somehow more creative than doing something that looks more modern.

 

[John Wick]

There is more in the article.

The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5

Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…

www.eurogamer.net

"Shin'en tells us that in the case of its engine, the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference."

So it is not just the higher clock but the memory setup too.

I can see this not sitting too well with certain people eh?
Remember when people were making a fuss about how PS5 retail box has 8K advertised on it? Well looks like some people gonna be triggered.
It's a shame whenever something positive about PS5 is released it's always played down.......

 

[FranXico]

Gotta love how John calls going from 6K on Xbox Series X to 8K on PlayStation 5 a "slight boost." Wonder if he realizes that 6K resolution is only 52.5% 56% the pixel count of 8K resolution (both in 16:9 ratio). That "slight" increase in internal rendering is basically DOUBLE the pixel count lol.

6K res (16:9) = 5568x3132 = ~ 17.44 million pixels
8K res (16:9) = 7680x4320 = ~ 33.18 million pixels

edit - had 6k a bit wrong

6K res (16:9) = 5760x3240 = ~ 18.66 million pixels
8K res (16:9) = 7680x4320 = ~ 33.18 million pixels

According to DF:
Below HD on PS3 vs 720p on 360 - Big difference
900p on X1 vs 1080p on PS4 - Small difference
1440p on PS4Pro vs 4K on X1X - Big difference
1800p on PS5 vs 4K on XSX - Big difference
6K on XSX vs 8K on PS5 - Small difference

Those returns sure keep diminishing and growing all the time.

 

[polybius80]

no, not all titles.

if your game can be ported with minimal help and still reaches 4k60fps for example, why do you want to spend more resources on optimization?

the dev here walked the extra mile to have it on PS5 in 8k so they are curious and clearly not like other devs

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Thank you for confirming that for HIS game, HIS engine, the PS5 (or in this case the PS5 RAM architecture) is better. You did a better job with the explanation than I could have ever done.

Unified memory is a great boost but also the higher clocks of the PS5 allow it to have higher cache bandwidth with lower latency thus allowing for a more “robust” memory setup.

I haven’t even gotten to cache coherency, cache hit rate and the hardware cache scrubbers all of which the PS5 has an advantage in.

The higher clocks also allow higher amounts of geometry throughput which is defined as the amount of triangles which can be issued to the GPU in a form which can be rasterised but this will also depend on how compute bound the engine is.

 

[Kenpachii]

Nice troll post. But can it do 4K/120fps and 8K/60 in the Touryst?

Who knows

According to DF:
Below HD on PS3 vs 720p on 360 - Big difference
900p on X1 vs 1080p on PS4 - Small difference
1440p on PS4Pro vs 4K on X1X - Big difference
1800p on PS5 vs 4K on XSX - Big difference
6K on XSX vs 8K on PS5 - Small difference

Those returns sure keep diminishing and growing all the time.

Imagine calling 6k to 8k a small difference

 

[Vognerful]

the dev here walked the extra mile to have it on PS5 in 8k so they are curious and clearly not like other devs

and they deserve the credit.