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[arvfab]

one was faster GPU and memory configuration.

so all 3? do you agree?

Of course he needs to optimize if he wants to get the best out of it. That's one of the advantages in having a low level API.

He also gave reasons why - thanks to the optimizations for the PS5 hardware - he could achieve better results than on the optimized Series X version.

We don't have any more information than that, everything else is speculation.

5 pages already, there is a lot of interest in this indie game!

It's a damn good indie game!

 

[Vognerful]

According to DF:
Below HD on PS3 vs 720p on 360 - Big difference
900p on X1 vs 1080p on PS4 - Small difference
1440p on PS4Pro vs 4K on X1X - Big difference
1800p on PS5 vs 4K on XSX - Big difference
6K on XSX vs 8K on PS5 - Small difference

Those returns sure keep diminishing and growing all the time.

I think the "small difference" is because the output is still in 4K.

 

[ZywyPL]

According to DF:
Below HD on PS3 vs 720p on 360 - Big difference
900p on X1 vs 1080p on PS4 - Small difference
1440p on PS4Pro vs 4K on X1X - Big difference
1800p on PS5 vs 4K on XSX - Big difference
6K on XSX vs 8K on PS5 - Small difference

Those returns sure keep diminishing and growing all the time.

I think it has something to do with the overall end on-screen result rather than pure numbers - 1440p for example can look like shit but it also can look absolutely brilliant, it all depends on the implemented scaling technique (if there's any to begin with) and AA used.

 

[assurdum]

5 pages already, there is a lot of interest in this indie game!

Tech wise is an interesting result. What's exactly the problem?

 

[assurdum]

According to DF:
Below HD on PS3 vs 720p on 360 - Big difference
900p on X1 vs 1080p on PS4 - Small difference
1440p on PS4Pro vs 4K on X1X - Big difference
1800p on PS5 vs 4K on XSX - Big difference
6K on XSX vs 8K on PS5 - Small difference

Those returns sure keep diminishing and growing all the time.

You forget the very simplistic graphic argument of Leadbetter in the video. Yes because tipically less powerful hardware handle better "simplistic" graphic lol. The level of stupidity they reach to biasis a multiplatform result, is something else some times.

 

[FranXico]

Yes because tipically less powerful hardware handle better more simple graphic lol.

That's nonsense. Simple graphics are equally easy to handle in pretty much any hardware, and certainly should be rendered without breaking a sweat on stronger hardware.

Besides, I just described how their viewpoint on resolution has evolved over three generations of consoles. That ridiculous argument about one game does not explain years of flip-flopping.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

As I've been saying for quite a while, for certain workloads PS5 is better. For others XSX is better. Is this so hard to accept even after a dev's confirmation?

It's almost like tech is complicated and can't just be boiled down to "x better than y", but that's too complicated of a concept for some people it seems.

I agree, it's better for certain workloads. Just not twice as good. 5,10,15% sure, but 100% better? C'mon. The xsx got a straight port and ps5 got an engine rewrite. You now can't compare these 2 things.

 

[MonarchJT]

Kinda weird how now one has anything say about this unless I missed it somewhere.

in fact I don't understand how a entire thread can trust that the PS5 can do 8k and the XSX can't ...I'm just speechless ..the dev just optimized it for PS5 that's it...the rest is just fantasyland

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think it will be where the memory split comes into play?

XBox has 10GB dedicated to games at the super high speed right, where PS5 has the entire pool available. Maybe the 8k frame buffer doesnt fit into the 10GB of ram?

 

[blastprocessor]

Very impressive. If you look at Death Stranding DC (also a PS5 native app) it's doing 8x pixels over PS4. You have to wonder what more can be done when they make games ground up and utilise features exclusive to the PS5 GPU.

 

[FranXico]

I think it will be where the memory split comes into play?

XBox has 10GB dedicated to games at the super high speed right, where PS5 has the entire pool available. Maybe the 8k frame buffer doesnt fit into the 10GB of ram?

I wouldn't think so. It would take something extremely taxing to cause any issues with the split bandwidth.

I think there's something specific about this game engine (not being "simple" LOL) that makes it lend itself to perform better with higher clock GPUs.

 

[winjer]

This is a game that uses simple shaders, so it end's up not having it's performance being limited by shader throughput.
At 8K, it's probably just limited by ROPs.
The PS5 has double the Z/stencil ROPs of the Series X. And then it has the clock advantage.

As for the question of wide vs clock speed.
Let's just remember that the calculations made by GPUs are very easily parallelized.
Besides, both this and the last generation had Async Compute, to fill in the shaders that might be empty.
This means that going wide will scale performance very well.
Comparing GPUs workload to CPU's, is a bit silly. They work in different ways and deal with different types of loads.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Don't look into it too much

 

[assurdum]

in fact I don't understand how a entire thread can trust that the PS5 can do 8k and the XSX can't ...I'm just speechless ..the dev just optimized it for PS5 that's it...the rest is just fantasyland

It's unbelievable whatever is the argument you lead everything in console war. Exactly who has said XSX can't handle 8k? My Good Lord. And yes ps5 can handle this specific game in 8k, XSX not. You can live with that.

 

[ParaSeoul]

 

[assurdum]

Don't look into it too much

 

[MrLove]

Split ram and shared memory banks bottlenecks are huge.

 

[Hendrick's]

Does 8K make the game less boring?

 

[mrmeh]

Great game, loved the aesthetic. Give it a try Sony people

 

[arvfab]

Does 8K make the game less boring?

Xbox players will never know....

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Hmm color me surprised because team green's influencers/twitter handles all kept insinuating the opposite no? That Series X would do native whatever 'K's meanwhile PS5 would do fake whatever 'K's. It's best to not jump the gun and champion paper specs when real-world comparisons say a different story altogether

 

[Lysandros]

This is a game that uses simple shaders, so it end's up not having it's performance being limited by shader throughput.
At 8K, it's probably just limited by ROPs.
The PS5 has double the Z/stencil ROPs of the Series X. And then it has the clock advantage.

As for the question of wide vs clock speed.
Let's just remember that the calculations made by GPUs are very easily parallelized.
Besides, both this and the last generation had Async Compute, to fill in the shaders that might be empty.
This means that going wide will scale performance very well.
Comparing GPUs workload to CPU's, is a bit silly. They work in different ways and deal with different types of loads.

The interesting thing about this, XSX isn't necessarily 'wider' since both machines are 2 SE/4 SA architectures. XSX has simply more CUs squished into them which compromise cache data available 'per CU' to some degree (up to ~ 40% less L1).

As to Async Compute, PS5's ACEs and HWS units responsible for scheduling operate ~20% faster, this should be beneficial for CU occupancy, at least in theory.

 

[Sosokrates]

I don't understand why they think the PS5s 8k res is caused by the ps5 having a hardware advantage over the seriesX. For all we know a native seriesX version could do 8k too.

 

[Fake]

I don't understand why they think the PS5s 8k res is caused by the ps5 having a hardware advantage over the seriesX. For all we know a native seriesX version could do 8k too.

They don't think. This is what the dev behind this game tell to John. Is on the video, almost in the beginning.

 

[winjer]

The interesting thing about this, XSX isn't necessarily 'wider' since both machines are 2 SE/4 SA architectures. XSX has simply more CUs squished into them which compromise cache data available 'per CU' to some degree (up to ~ 40% less L1).

As to Async Compute, PS5's ACEs and HWS units responsible for scheduling operate ~20% faster, this should be beneficial for CU occupancy, at least in theory.

I think that most people here when talking about "wideness"in GPUs, tend to refer to how many CUs it has.
But I agree that your take is more precise, as it refers to how wide the execution pipeline is for each core. A bit like it is for a CPU.

Yes, PS5 each ACE is able to schedule 20% more, per unit of time. But each shader will process each instruction 20% faster. So it needs to be feed 20% faster.
So it will be the same.
As far as I know, the PS5 and Series S have the same ratio of ACE's per CU.

I don't understand why they think the PS5s 8k res is caused by the ps5 having a hardware advantage over the seriesX. For all we know a native seriesX version could do 8k too.

The PS5 has double the Z/stencil ROPs of the Series X

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

DF threads bind us, as well as divide GAF. Fucking lol at you guys fighting over THIS game?! It's rather entertaining though. Wonder how the rest of this gen will go.

 

[Sosokrates]

They don't think. This is what the dev behind this game tell to John. Is on the video, almost in the beginning.

No.
The Dev explained how he got the game to 8k on the PS5. They never said the Xsx version could not do 8k. The talk about how the clockspeed, cu difference and memory setup will effect performance between the PS5 + seriesX is John and Richards speculation.

 

[Sosokrates]

I think that most people here when talking about "wideness"in GPUs, tend to refer to how many CUs it has.
But I agree that your take is more precise, as it refers to how wide the execution pipeline is for each core. A bit like it is for a CPU.

Yes, PS5 each ACE is able to schedule 20% more, per unit of time. But each shader will process each instruction 20% faster. So it needs to be feed 20% faster.
So it will be the same.
As far as I know, the PS5 and Series S have the same ratio of ACE's per CU.



The PS5 has double the Z/stencil ROPs of the Series X

Didnt the x1 also have this compared to the PS4 because of its higher clocked GPU?

Anyway im sure if the dev did a native xsx version they could do an 8k mode too.

Comparing a modified BC xbox one game to a native PS5 game is a foolish way to draw any speculations on hardware performance, im surprised DF did this.

 

[Evilms]

Some people still don't understand that we're no longer on a classic PS4/XBO and Pro/X scheme where it was clear that the PS4 and X were better in everything, you have to get it into your head that the PS5 can have the upper hand on the XSX in some cases like on this game and vice versa. and you're going to have to get used to this idea, all the FUD around PS5 before launch was for nothing in the end as the reality is quite different.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I think it has something to do with the overall end on-screen result rather than pure numbers - 1440p for example can look like shit but it also can look absolutely brilliant, it all depends on the implemented scaling technique (if there's any to begin with) and AA used.

Nah, their 'reasoning' on this topic is motivated... They do the same for framerate, of Xbox has the lower score it doesn't matter, when a PlayStation game drops a frame every minute then Sony has failed.

Same with their predictions before the consoles were launched, PS5 has RDNA 1.x, PS5 has no RT, PS5 will throttle too much, etc. All fear uncertainty and doubt, all biased in the same direction, MS does well, no questions asked, Sony does well? There must be something wrong.

However, they're probably right about the perceivable difference between 4k/6k and 8k.

 

[Fafalada]

Didnt the x1 also have this compared to the PS4 because of its higher clocked GPU?

No, x1 had half the ROPs, half the geometry throughput, 50% less TMUs and 1/3 the ratio of ACE to compute.
Basically everything in ps4 gpu ran 40-90% faster.

 

[MonarchJT]

Some people still don't understand that we're no longer on a classic PS4/XBO and Pro/X scheme where it was clear that the PS4 and X were better in everything, you have to get it into your head that the PS5 can have the upper hand on the XSX in some cases like on this game and vice versa. and you're going to have to get used to this idea, all the FUD around PS5 before launch was for nothing in the end as the reality is quite different.

certainly the situation is much much less explicit than the old comparison between XBO / PS4 or even worse PS4pro / XOX But let's not be fooled by some results simply due to little optimization or simply having spent more time working on one console than the other. There is nothing wrong with accepting the fact that the hw of one is slightly better than the other and with the necessary precautions it would be visible 100% of the time in all games. Unfortunately, development time and costs do not always allow for the optimization that would push the machines to the maximum and therefore we see fluctuating results.

 

[winjer]

Didnt the x1 also have this compared to the PS4 because of its higher clocked GPU?

Anyway im sure if the dev did a native xsx version they could do an 8k mode too.

Comparing a modified BC xbox one game to a native PS5 game is a foolish way to draw any speculations on hardware performance, im surprised DF did this.

Yes, the X1 GPU was clocked a bit higher, but it had so few CUs, it was not enough to gap the difference.
But it did have an advantage. The CPU of the X1, had a higher clock speed, compared to the PS4. And it had DDR3, which has lower latency.
This meant that in a few games, heavily CPU bound, the X1 was able to match or beat the PS4.

 

[Three Jackdaws]

Xbox players will never know....

 

[alabtrosMyster]

I don't understand why they think the PS5s 8k res is caused by the ps5 having a hardware advantage over the seriesX. For all we know a native seriesX version could do 8k too.

Maybe the attempt at running the game at 8k failed? Or the bottleneck that prevented it from happening on the X was very clear from the beginning?

People have pointed out the advantages that the PS5 has in terms of fill rate, cache/CU, etc. Low shader load from the game, all could provide reasonable hints as to why that is.

"For all we know" is what we have heard since release.

 

[MonarchJT]

Split ram and shared memory banks bottlenecks are huge.

Who say this? lol
ok the thread is taking the usual turn. better i go away

 

[MonarchJT]

Maybe the attempt at running the game at 8k failed? Or the bottleneck that prevented it from happening on the X was very clear from the beginning?

People have pointed out the advantages that the PS5 has in terms of fill rate, cache/CU, etc. Low shader load from the game, all could provide reasonable hints as to why that is.

"For all we know" is what we have heard since release.

people always hear what they want to hear ...

 

[TrebleShot]

Nice as an experiment and for the numbers but in reality has little impact.

 

[Fake]

No.
The Dev explained how he got the game to 8k on the PS5. They never said the Xsx version could not do 8k. The talk about how the clockspeed, cu difference and memory setup will effect performance between the PS5 + seriesX is John and Richards speculation.

All of which brings us onto the elephant in the room. The Touryst on Series X also has super-sampling down to 4K from a higher resolution, but it is 6K instead (5760x3240, to be precise). Bearing in mind how close the machines are, why is this the case? Typically, in the PC space, to get a faster GPU, manufacturers produce 'wider' designs that run at the same clocks as less capable parts - or even slower. Xbox Series X follows the same pattern. Its GPU runs at a slower clock, but should be more capable overall as it has many more compute units. Shin'en tells us that in the case of its engine, the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference. Beyond this, rather than just porting the PS4 version to PS5, Shin'en rewrote the engine to take advantage of PS5's low-level graphics APIs.

The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5

Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[rickybooby87]

Sosokrates said:
No.
The Dev explained how he got the game to 8k on the PS5. They never said the Xsx version could not do 8k. The talk about how the clockspeed, cu difference and memory setup will effect performance between the PS5 + seriesX is John and Richards speculation.

All of which brings us onto the elephant in the room. The Touryst on Series X also has super-sampling down to 4K from a higher resolution, but it is 6K instead (5760x3240, to be precise). Bearing in mind how close the machines are, why is this the case? Typically, in the PC space, to get a faster GPU, manufacturers produce 'wider' designs that run at the same clocks as less capable parts - or even slower. Xbox Series X follows the same pattern. Its GPU runs at a slower clock, but should be more capable overall as it has many more compute units. Shin'en tells us that in the case of its engine, the increase to clock frequencies and the difference in memory set-up makes the difference. Beyond this, rather than just porting the PS4 version to PS5, Shin'en rewrote the engine to take advantage of PS5's low-level graphics APIs.

The Touryst is the first 8K 60fps game for PS5

Shin'en Multimedia's brilliant game - The Touryst - is now available for PS4 and PS5 consoles and it is now confirmed a…

www.eurogamer.net

 

[XXL]

According to DF:
Below HD on PS3 vs 720p on 360 - Big difference
900p on X1 vs 1080p on PS4 - Small difference
1440p on PS4Pro vs 4K on X1X - Big difference
1800p on PS5 vs 4K on XSX - Big difference
6K on XSX vs 8K on PS5 - Small difference

Those returns sure keep diminishing and growing all the time.

 

[DenchDeckard]

wait a miunute, the series X version isnt a native app? whats all this about?

It's a BC title?

 

[Evilms]

wait a miunute, the series X version isnt a native app? whats all this about?

It's a BC title?

The Touryst Renders at 6K/4K on Xbox Series X/S; It Almost Looks Like a Good CGI Movie, Says Dev

Shin'en Multimedia confirmed to Wccftech that The Touryst internally renders at 6K resolution on Xbox Series X and 4K on Xbox Series S.

wccftech.com

''For us, it's the very powerful GPU. So it was really easy to up the visuals in The Touryst to perfection. Depending on Xbox Series X or S, we render at 6K or 4K resolution and then downsample to the target resolution, so you have a very crisp yet extra smooth supersampled display. It almost looks like a good CGI movie and that's all with no temporal reprojection, so every pixel is fresh and unique without temporal artifacts.''

Inside Xbox Series X|S Optimized: The Touryst - Xbox Wire

One of the biggest benefits of all that power is giving developers the ability to make games that are Xbox Series X|S Optimized. This means that they’ve taken full advantage of the unique capabilities of Xbox Series X|S, both for new titles built natively using the Xbox Series X|S development...

news.xbox.com

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

The Touryst Renders at 6K/4K on Xbox Series X/S; It Almost Looks Like a Good CGI Movie, Says Dev

Shin'en Multimedia confirmed to Wccftech that The Touryst internally renders at 6K resolution on Xbox Series X and 4K on Xbox Series S.

wccftech.com

''For us, it's the very powerful GPU. So it was really easy to up the visuals in The Touryst to perfection. Depending on Xbox Series X or S, we render at 6K or 4K resolution and then downsample to the target resolution, so you have a very crisp yet extra smooth supersampled display. It almost looks like a good CGI movie and that's all with no temporal reprojection, so every pixel is fresh and unique without temporal artifacts.''

Inside Xbox Series X|S Optimized: The Touryst - Xbox Wire

One of the biggest benefits of all that power is giving developers the ability to make games that are Xbox Series X|S Optimized. This means that they’ve taken full advantage of the unique capabilities of Xbox Series X|S, both for new titles built natively using the Xbox Series X|S development...

news.xbox.com

That doesn't tell us anything haha

 

[ZywyPL]

DF threads bind us, as well as divide GAF.

No, that's what the Tits and Butts threads are here for.

 

[Caio]

So, PS5 is internally rendering 8K, no tricks, no reprojections. I would just need a 8K display to appreciate it right ?
By the way, this is a cool result.

 

[Evilms]

That doesn't tell us anything haha

It doesn't say anywhere that it's backwards compatibility, the SX also benefited from its native version at launch.
The devs explain well that it's thanks to the higher GPU frequency and unified RAM of the PS5 that they were able to push the resolution higher than it was on XSX

Maybe the developers can release an XSX patch to put it in 8K as well of course if they manage to do so with further optimization, but for now it remains in 6K.

 

[Lysandros]

I think that most people here when talking about "wideness"in GPUs, tend to refer to how many CUs it has.
But I agree that your take is more precise, as it refers to how wide the execution pipeline is for each core. A bit like it is for a CPU.

Yes, PS5 each ACE is able to schedule 20% more, per unit of time. But each shader will process each instruction 20% faster. So it needs to be feed 20% faster.
So it will be the same.
As far as I know, the PS5 and Series S have the same ratio of ACE's per CU.



The PS5 has double the Z/stencil ROPs of the Series X

So doesn't this logic result in higher occupancy per CU 'by nature'? By the way, are you sure that asynchronous compute is directly tied '1:1' to ALU throughput like this?

XSX/PS5 'should' have 4 ACEs+1 HWS like in standart RDNA/2 SE architecture unless Sony added more like in PS4 (8 ACEs) but this has to be confirmed.

 

[Mr Moose]

wait a miunute, the series X version isnt a native app? whats all this about?

It's a BC title?

No, it's a native app.

 

[Lysandros]

Didnt the x1 also have this compared to the PS4 because of its higher clocked GPU?

Anyway im sure if the dev did a native xsx version they could do an 8k mode too.

Comparing a modified BC xbox one game to a native PS5 game is a foolish way to draw any speculations on hardware performance, im surprised DF did this.

XboxOne was a mere ~6% higher clocked compared to 22% in this case, a difference of x3.5. Furthermore it had only half the number of ROPs (16 vs 32) along with x2.5 less main RAM bandwidth besides fever CUs, so that's not really comparable.