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[SeraphJan]

Is that from person to person? Or just training thing?

When you guys talks about that “motion sickness” with 30fps I can’t help but to relate with how some people can read books traveling in a car while others not… I can just fine but my wife get nauseated near the point to vomiting.

So it is a by person thing?

But thinking a bit more I remember that when I had 14 years old I started to study in a school in another city with a traveling of 33km… so it took with the stops to get more students 40-50 minutes in the bus.

I used that time to study… and at fist I really feel some nausea but after doing it some days it become normal… so I can read from that anything with car in movement just fine… and I can play 30fps game just fine to the point to not know if a game is 30fps or 60fps unless I play these two difference framerate in sequence in a small internal of time.

Yes, it differs depending on individual, although I don't have the exact statistics, but I kind of suspect both Microsoft and Sony do, I believe from now and onward a performance and cinematic option in ever game will became almost mandatory, I mean they all wish to reach wider audience, its more like an accessibility thing.

 

[Corndog]

I'm condemning the people who want full resolution at 60 fps, or try to find flaws in a game designed to look peak on a console that's already outdated, where the fuck do i come off as crying about these punks?

People saying the game should be 60fps full detail are laughable, so i and others are laughing at them, if you're not one of them then you should pipe down

I don’t have the game so I obviously can’t come to a personal opinion. And yes you are crying about people having a different opinion then you. Is it really so hard to allow people to criticize a Sony game?

 

[ByWatterson]

Turning down motion blur improves the performance mode somewhat, but boy I've never seen 1800p look so bad.

Resolution works really well. Crisp for 30fps.

 

[Freeman76]

Have you tried disablig motion blur? Try the game with and without it and tell us if you notice any difference in that color shifting you mention.

Doesnt seem to make any difference but thanks for the suggestion

 

[RafterXL]

Anybody denying shimmering in performance mode is delusional. It looks really distracting and really bad. Tsushima on ps5 looks much more pleasing.
I really Hope GG can fix it. I moved to cp2077 in the meantime.

Literally EVERY SINGLE first party Sony PS5 title has a better performance mode. The idea that we aren't happy because the game isn't 4k/60 is just stupidity. I'd take 1440p in a heartbeat over this. This is just plain awful implementation and has nothing to do with the power of the console. If this were ANYONE but a first party developer no one would be defending it. It feels like an afterthought.

I also love that dude blames uncalibrated tv sets...lol. I have two calibrated high end sets (LED and OLED) and both of them have the exact same issues.. it's 100% the game.

 

[Freeman76]

The whole environment slightly changes color when you move the camera.

“graphics masterclass” my ass. The game is impressive in some ways and disappointing in others.

Mine seems worse with foliage, but yeah same issue exactly

 

[Arioco]

Doesnt seem to make any difference but thanks for the suggestion

Weird. Well, I'm sorry. In that case I'm afraid only Guerrilla can provide a solution to your problem. Hope they''ll fix it as soon as possible so can enjoy the game.

 

[funking giblet]

I have the same issue, a subtle colour change when moving camera. I can only imagine it's either related to AA or some screen space effect / motion blur, it's a little distracting.

 

[Tschumi]

I don’t have the game so I obviously can’t come to a personal opinion. And yes you are crying about people having a different opinion then you. Is it really so hard to allow people to criticize a Sony game?

Mate you're drop dead missing the point, you blockhead, i couldn't give a toss if it was PS5 or pspatootie, i have never been warned for console warring as far as i can remember (i think my first warning was an error from a mod who thought i was quoting someone on Twitter, which i have no account for), I'm just taking shots at graphics whores and people who don't realise they've replaced any internet video game critique methods with DF-esque technical obsessions. I also take shots at obvious console warriors for being tilted.

Your persistence in saying I'm preoccupied with PS5 simply indicates your own tilt, for which you should get help. I'm done!

 

[Edgelord79]

Two cents. Game is much better than the first as they improved a lot. Resolution mode is stunning, but the 30 fps is jarring at times. Performance was disappointing graphically, but they've released a patch since.

My experience is different than DF's as I'm having a difficult time playing in resolution mode due to it's feeling. If you can do it though, looks incredible.

 

[decisions]

I bet you are using VA tv... looks like that.

Uh…This does not happen with other games. Will take a video of FFVII on the same TV.

 

[ethomaz]

Is the performance mode native 1800p in Forbidden West? It looks blurry as hell at times.

1800 CBR… not native.

 

[ethomaz]

There are so many options that would apparently be better, that's why it's so frustrating.

1440p is usually very clean, so that would almost certainly be better.

40fps is miles better than 30, and the game is locked at 4k, so surely feasible.

They could lower a few settings to get something in the region of 1620p. Or maybe even 4kcb would look ok, it usually does, after all.

They could drop to 1800p native and unlock the frame rate, so at least we could take advantage of VRR once that's available.

I mean, from the sounds of it, even PS4 settings at 4k60 sounds like it'd be an improvement!

I sometimes don’t understand.

Do you really believes Guerrilha didn’t try native 1440p? I mean they tried several types of resolution and configs before reach the final result.

What I get is that didn’t want to lose any feature/effect in 60fps mode… so they reached the 1800 CBR.

Maybe 1440p native they should have to give up some effects compared with 30fps… after all 1800 CBR is less demanding than 1440p.

 

[ethomaz]

Tbf isn't reducing settings intelligently what optimisation is all about, rather than just destroying one aspect of fidelity?

You want to scatter the cuts across as many elements as possible.

Optimization is increase performance without changing the final result… if you reduced some effect it is not optimization anymore… it is downgrade to reach performance target.

Optimization is to get for example a function code that runs at 5ms and change it to run at 2ms delivering the same exact result.

 

[Cr1ptkeeper]

I sometimes don’t understand.

Do you really believes Guerrilha didn’t try native 1440p? I mean they tried several types of resolution and configs before reach the final result.

What I get is that didn’t want to lose any feature/effect in 60fps mode… so they reached the 1800 CBR.

Maybe 1440p native they should have to give up some effects compared with 30fps… after all 1800 CBR is less demanding than 1440p.

I also think first party developers are under pressure of Sony to use an as high as possible resolution in the different modes as the PS5 is advertised by Sony as a 4k console.

 

[adamsapple]

It is not the way to play. Especially turning off motion blur. 60fps is not enough frames to fully convey proper motion. Your brain needs these gaps filled. You are not supposed to be delivering fully static images to your brain every few ms.
I will not convert you but I want you to try motion blur

NGL I also turn off motion blur at 60 FPS if given the choice lol. I only keep it on for 30 FPS games to reduce the judder, but at 60 FPS the motion is smooth enough already that adding blur over it just makes like you're needlessly smearing the screen and degrading IQ.

Hell, even not all 30 FPS motion blur is built the same. I don't like the MB in Control in the 30 FPS RT mode either so I turn it off.

 

[ethomaz]

I haven't played the game so I'm not willing to say anything definitive about it.

However, I've seen the DF and gamersyde videos on my tv, which are the best facsimiles I have at the moment, and the resolution mode looks SIGNIFICANTLY better in those.

To me it looks like a game with lots of fine detail that really shines at a high native resolution. I wouldn't be that surprised if PS4 settings at 4k looked better than PS5 settings at 1800cb, because the latter doesn't seem to look that great.

However, that's the extreme case, and almost certainly wouldn't be necessary. I'm sure several judicious cuts to the settings could be made that aren't especially noticeable but that would allow a resolution of 1600p or so, so you'd get way more fidelity overall than the current situation.

PS4 versions have several cut back features and effects… it is not the same game.

 

[ethomaz]

I also think first party developers are under pressure of Sony to use an as high as possible resolution in the different modes as the PS5 is advertised by Sony as a 4k console.

I’m think it was Guerrilha own decision.
Others Sony 1st-party doesn’t have native 4k.

 

[adamsapple]

PS4 versions have several cut back features and effects… it is not the same game.

But it is the same game, with some expected visual cut backs to get the game running on the 2013 hardware.

It doesn't change the game, game's content, story or anything else.

 

[Hunnybun]

I sometimes don’t understand.

Do you really believes Guerrilha didn’t try native 1440p? I mean they tried several types of resolution and configs before reach the final result.

What I get is that didn’t want to lose any feature/effect in 60fps mode… so they reached the 1800 CBR.

Maybe 1440p native they should have to give up some effects compared with 30fps… after all 1800 CBR is less demanding than 1440p.

I obviously don't know what they tried.

What I'm sure of is if the game genuinely looks as bad as people are saying, then this can't possibly be the best solution.

And really, even in the highly unlikely scenario that it is the optimal profile for a 60fps mode, that still doesn't explain why they couldn't just offer a 40fps mode (maybe with more aggressive DRS if necessary).

My honest opinion is that the performance mode was an afterthought and very little effort went into optimising it.

 

[Hunnybun]

Optimization is increase performance without changing the final result… if you reduced some effect it is not optimization anymore… it is downgrade to reach performance target.

Optimization is to get for example a function code that runs at 5ms and change it to run at 2ms delivering the same exact result.

It doesn't matter. You know what I'm saying either way.

There are better and worse adjustments to make to graphics in order to increase frame rate. Not every cost to the GPU returns the same benefit to visuals. It's a diminishing returns issue, essentially.

That's why DF always talks about the importance of optimised settings on PC.

 

[Hunnybun]

PS4 versions have several cut back features and effects… it is not the same game.

Yes, I KNOW.

 

[decisions]

I bet you are using VA tv... looks like that.

Uh…This does not happen with other games. Will take a video of FFVII on the same TV.

Here is FFVIIR on the same TV.





I think I do have a VA panel (lower-end LG 4K HDR TV), but I believe it’s clear that none of the colors are blurring or changing like in Horizon. Both games are in the 30fps resolution modes with HDR on.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

Here is FFVIIR on the same TV.





I think I do have a VA panel (lower-end LG 4K HDR TV), but I believe it’s clear that none of the colors are blurring or changing like in Horizon. Both games are in the 30fps resolution modes with HDR on.

I though they fixed that bug?


Did this work for you?

 

[decisions]

I though they fixed that bug?


Did this work for you?

Nope, restarted the game twice yesterday (closed the app) and at least one more time since then.

Has anyone actually verified that fix worked for them? Seems so weird to me.

 

[rofif]

Here is FFVIIR on the same TV.





I think I do have a VA panel (lower-end LG 4K HDR TV), but I believe it’s clear that none of the colors are blurring or changing like in Horizon. Both games are in the 30fps resolution modes with HDR on.

Maybe the resolution horizon is higher and is too sharp with right colour

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Imagine missing to have a great game experience due the “muah 60fps” lol

It will not be the first neither the last console game where 30fps is the best mode to play.

Maybe these that have the eyes bleeding could think about moving to PC… I don’t know but it is not a good thing to keep playing in a platform that hurts you.

This is going to be the trend this gen for big budget games due to them now being GPU limited instead of CPU limited. 4k@30fps or 1080p/1440p/Reconstructed@60fps.

 

[TheKratos]

I prefer all my games in 60 FPS but HFW blurry ass performance mode is forcing me to play 30FPS. I played Rift Apart, DS, Spiderman all in 60FPS with no issues but there's something about HFW that kills my eyes. Had the same issue in Dying Light 2 performance mode.

 

[Imtjnotu]

I'm on a C9 and I don't see the shimmering shit.

Playing on performance only. 30fps is too low for me

 

[Caio]

Graphics are great, I also love the art design, and overall I'm very impressed with Horizon FW, but this bothers me a little; if you go at min 28:50, you notice some weird grass/vegetation pop in, which basicly only happens in that specific area, according to DF.
Do you think this "issue" will be fixed soon after the Day One patch, which is already fixing other little issues ?

 

[FrankWza]

I don’t have the game

 

[Lysandros]

I sometimes don’t understand.

Do you really believes Guerrilha didn’t try native 1440p? I mean they tried several types of resolution and configs before reach the final result.

What I get is that didn’t want to lose any feature/effect in 60fps mode… so they reached the 1800 CBR.

Maybe 1440p native they should have to give up some effects compared with 30fps… after all 1800 CBR is less demanding than 1440p.

Are you sure about that? Even with the added cost of reconstruction? I have some doubts...

 

[ethomaz]

Are you sure about that? Even with the added cost of reconstruction? I have some doubts...

Well.

1600x1800 is 2880000 pixels
2560x1440 is 3686400 pixels

You need CBR to cost 30% of the render to beat it. How much performance cost CBR add?

Most test I saw the performer cost is around 15-20%.

 

[Lysandros]

Well.

1600x1800 is 2880000 pixels
2560x1440 is 3686400 pixels

You need CBR to cost 30% of the render to beat it. How much performance cost CBR add?

Most test I saw the performer cost is around 15-20%.

Yes, in that case it's very possible that 1800 CB is slightly less demanding than native 1440P indeed, i don't think their FXAA based solution is as costly as 30%, more like ~20% probably. Thanks.

Edit: In the case below (Dark Souls 2) 1800pCB is only 27% faster than native 1800P for example, but i am not so sure how to calculate the cost for a 1440P to 1800pCB scenario exactly. Should be around the ballpark.

 

[ethomaz]

Yes, in that case it's very possible that 1800 CB is slightly less demanding than native 1440P indeed, i don't think their FXAA based solution is as costly as 30%, more like ~20% probably. Thanks.

Edit: In the case below (Dark Souls 2) 1800pCB is only 27% faster than native 1800P for example, but i am not so sure how to calculate the cost for a 1440P to 1800pCB scenario exactly. Should be around the ballpark.

Let's do some weird math with that pic

1080p native = 1920x1080 = 2073600 px
1440p native = 2560x1440 = 3686400 px
1800p native = 3200x1800 = 5760000 px

1440p looks to have 64% of the 1800p px... if we take that with the 12.2ms from 1800p then you will have 7.8ms for 1440p.
1440p looks to have 178% of the 1080p px... if we take that with the 5.2ms from 1080p then you will have 9.2ms for 1440p.

I can't say for sure where 1440p native will land but it is most probably between 7.8ms and 9.2ms.
So for this game even in the worst scenario the 1440p native will be faster than 1800p CBR (9.2ms vs 9.6ms).

But that only accounting for this test render time (I don't know what is he rendering in the test but it probably not a full frame maybe an effect because in 30fps the each frame can be up to 33.3ms... so 9.6ms seems to be some part of the render only)... anyway the point is that there are others things not showed in this test like bandwidth use, CPU user, etc... he choose a part of the render to show his gains in that part... maybe a full frame render should be a better comparison because it englobes everything.

Maybe 1440p native can indeed works.

It just that I don't believe they didn't test 1440p native at all... resolution is not chose like that... they tests several scenarios to decide which one to optmize and use.

 

[Bojji]

I bet you are using VA tv... looks like that.

Yep.

Uh…This does not happen with other games. Will take a video of FFVII on the same TV.

FFVII even in resolution mode is soft looking game. Horizon is probably the most impressive 3840x2160 game I have ever seen, it actually requires this resolution to show all details. But VA panels suffer here, they have this problem build in into specs and most tvs are VA (mine included):

 

[adamsapple]

Yes, in that case it's very possible that 1800 CB is slightly less demanding than native 1440P indeed, i don't think their FXAA based solution is as costly as 30%, more like ~20% probably. Thanks.

Edit: In the case below (Dark Souls 2) 1800pCB is only 27% faster than native 1800P for example, but i am not so sure how to calculate the cost for a 1440P to 1800pCB scenario exactly. Should be around the ballpark.

"only" 27% is a weird way to phrase it.

Gaining 27% more performance with a small loss in IQ and rendering the same resolution pixel grid is a fantastic gain.

 

[GHG]

I bet you are using VA tv... looks like that.

That and a whole bunch of image processing.

 

[decisions]

Yep.



FFVII even in resolution mode is soft looking game. Horizon is probably the most impressive 3840x2160 game I have ever seen, it actually requires this resolution to show all details. But VA panels suffer here, they have this problem build in into specs and most tvs are VA (mine included):

Since FFVIIR, one of the best looking games of all-time, is not good enough, what game would you like me to test? I have never seen this in any other game before. The color is literally changing when I turn the camera. I just played UC4 and had no issues with that. This game has very detailed assets, but has tons of janky animations, pop-in, and weird issues like this. It just has too many problems to really feel like a new graphical benchmark.

That and a whole bunch of image processing.

Nope. Have nearly every image processing setting on the TV turned off. Can verify if you have any guesses at what setting may cause this.

 

[Swift_Star]

I don't think I've seen one positive bit of feedback on performance mode yet. Really sounds pretty bad tbh. I think I'm gonna leave this for a while to see if it gets patched. GT7 is out in a couple of weeks anyway.

It looks awesome in 1080p screens and that’s it.

 

[Swift_Star]

I'm just gonna quote one of the comment from a PC gamer that I've found on the internet.

When they use the term "unplayable" they are not exaggerating, this is really how motion sickness feels like if your brain had been trained to used to 60 fps and above for 20+ years.

The gift of console gamer however, is that they are very adaptable, going from lower frame rate to higher is way easier from going high to low due to the nature of how our brain process movement in real life.

I call this BS and hyperbole. Unless you can provide scientific research that people really get motion sickness from 30fps I’ll never believe it. Do they also get this when seeing movies at the theater? Those are 24fps. Nah, still calling it BS.

 

[Swift_Star]

I’m with you bro. It’s a sad state people supporting 30, especially influencers like DF. Sure, preferences are totally fine, but sheesh.

But 30 must look pretty nasty in motion on DF oled’s imho. I’m really scratching my head on this one.

I’m not even clear what has been cut back on the fidelity mode, there is literally no detail on this aspect apart from the 4k mode providing more clarity therefore bringing out the intricacies and detail better. But is anything actually lower? LOD, shadow quality, plant deformation!?! What is it!?!

30fps is fine. It’s time to let this stupid notion go.

 

[MikeM]

Imagine missing to have a great game experience due the “muah 60fps” lol

It will not be the first neither the last console game where 30fps is the best mode to play.

Maybe these that have the eyes bleeding could think about moving to PC… I don’t know but it is not a good thing to keep playing in a platform that hurts you.

30fps looks like shit on my tv. Unless its a walking sim or has fixed camera movement, 30fps is a deal breaker for me. But i’m also planning on building a PC to mitigate the risk.

 

[azertydu91]

Here is FFVIIR on the same TV.





I think I do have a VA panel (lower-end LG 4K HDR TV), but I believe it’s clear that none of the colors are blurring or changing like in Horizon. Both games are in the 30fps resolution modes with HDR on.

Wow that's weird , when I play I assure you it doesn't look like that on my tv...Are you using the game settings on your TV?

 

[NeonGhost]

I call this BS and hyperbole. Unless you can provide scientific research that people really get motion sickness from 30fps I’ll never believe it. Do they also get this when seeing movies at the theater? Those are 24fps. Nah, still calling it BS.

Did you seriously compare a movie frame rate to a games lmao this is all you need to know you have no clue what you are talkin about

 

[Swift_Star]

Did you seriously compare a movie frame rate to a games lmao this is all you need to know you have no clue what you are talkin about

I still calling it BS unless you can provide scientific proof that 30fps causes motion sickness. Prove it.

 

[Swift_Star]

Since FFVIIR, one of the best looking games of all-time, is not good enough, what game would you like me to test? I have never seen this in any other game before. The color is literally changing when I turn the camera. I just played UC4 and had no issues with that. This game has very detailed assets, but has tons of janky animations, pop-in, and weird issues like this. It just has too many problems to really feel like a new graphical benchmark.

Nope. Have nearly every image processing setting on the TV turned off. Can verify if you have any guesses at what setting may cause this.

Janky animations my god, some of you… define janky animations, please.

 

[Bojji]

Since FFVIIR, one of the best looking games of all-time, is not good enough, what game would you like me to test? I have never seen this in any other game before. The color is literally changing when I turn the camera. I just played UC4 and had no issues with that. This game has very detailed assets, but has tons of janky animations, pop-in, and weird issues like this. It just has too many problems to really feel like a new graphical benchmark.

Nope. Have nearly every image processing setting on the TV turned off. Can verify if you have any guesses at what setting may cause this.

Try Skyrim on PS5 if you have it:



It's native 4K with sharp looking TAA. Both FFVII and UC4 have soft implementations of TAA and in case of UC4 lots of chromatic abberation and other post processing shit too.

 

[Snake29]

Playing at Filmmaker mode instead of Game mode HDR is much more responsive (LG 4K OLED CX)

 

[adamsapple]

I still calling it BS unless you can provide scientific proof that 30fps causes motion sickness. Prove it.

You don't need scientific research for that, different people perceive things like motion and tearing differently. For example, I know at least person who gets migraine like headaches when they see/play a game with obvious screen tearing.

Most of us may not have an issue with 30 FPS, but some people may.