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[8BiTw0LF]

Here's an idea: Wait on releasing it until it's playable.

 

[geary]

Totally agree, I wish you would tell the people in the god of war and horizon threads about astroturfing i mean trying to convince people with legit concerns / negatives about games that their opinion is wrong.

People were muted left and right on those threads ))

 

[GymWolf]

I am. Many of the best selling and critically acclaimed games run at 60fps. We should start a list. I bet I would win. And 60fps doesn't have to come at the expense of fidelity. So you're wrong there to. 60 fps (or more) is superior. Accept it.

That's not true unless you have a monster pc where you get to make and eat the cake.

On console 60 fps mode comes with some caveats and a game made from the ground up with only 30 fps in mind is always gonna look better than the same game at 60, there is no escape from that.

I'm not defending his way of thinking, but what you said is not true.

I'm playing hfw and the difference between 60 and 30 mode is gigantic in terms of iq, 40 hz mode is a decent compromise but it still feels way worse to play than locked 60.

 

[Madserb2023]

I just can't anymore. Why would they knowingly release what is a relatively important game out in an unfinished state. Its not like they need the sales revenue. First impressions matter and the game will be dead before the 60fps patch arrives. I like the Series X. I find I am playing it as much as my PS5 which was not the same last time around. I feel like they sent the console out to die at this point. So they release Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo at 60fps on the PS5 but the first big game from Bethesda for Microsoft is 30fps at launch. Who are making these decisions. Sony shouldn't worry. Call of Duty will perform worse on the Series X.

 

[Topher]

Totally agree, I wish you would tell the people in the god of war and horizon threads about astroturfing i mean trying to convince people with legit concerns / negatives about games that their opinion is wrong.

People were muted left and right on those threads ))

Right.....because somehow these threads do not exist?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/god-of-war-2018-and-ragnarok-are-way-overrated.1655282/

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/aloy-is-the-single-biggest-problem-with-the-horizon-franchise-to-me.1655322/

That doesn't even include the OTs where criticism of these games were discussed extensively.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Here's an idea: Wait on releasing it until it's playable.

 

[Topher]

That's not true unless you have a monster pc where you get to make and eat the cake.

On console 60 fps mode comes with some caveats and a game made from the ground up with only 30 fps in mind is always gonna look better than the same game at 60, there is no escape from that.

I'm not defending his way of thinking, but what you said is not true.

I'm playing hfw and the difference between 60 and 30 mode is gigantic in terms of iq, 40 hz mode is a decent compromise but it still feels way worse to play than locked 60.

Yes, but at the same time when playing in motion that image quality takes a hit in my opinion. To me, the choppiness of the gameplay is so distracting that it negates the increased fidelity. If I'm in photomode then sure, much better, but otherwise I like at 60 fps in just about any game and I say to myself it just looks better. Not sure if that will make sense to anyone else, but that's just how my eyes see it.

But not disagreeing with what you are saying. 60 fps definitely reduces each image's quality.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

That's not true unless you have a monster pc where you get to make and eat the cake.

On console 60 fps mode comes with some caveats and a game made from the ground up with only 30 fps in mind is always gonna look better than the same game at 60, there is no escape from that.

I'm not defending his way of thinking, but what you said is not true.

I'm playing hfw and the difference between 60 and 30 mode is gigantic in terms of iq, 40 hz mode is a decent compromise but it still feels way worse to play than locked 60.

You don't need a "monster" PC to get 60 fps or more on the vast majority of games. The sheer fact that you can get 60fps on PC makes my point correct anyway. You can add all the caveats that you want I'm still correct.

 

[GymWolf]

You don't need a "monster" PC to get 60 fps or more on the vast majority of games.

You need a relatively monstrous pc to get 4k60 ultra details, or what i consider "no compromises pc gaming", and people more elitist than me consider 4k120 the real deal over 4k60.

The moment you have to turn down details and res, you are literally making compromises.

Simple as that.

 

[ahtlas7]

Arcane, what a fall.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

You need a relatively monstrous pc to get 4k60 ultra details, or what i consider "no compromises pc gaming", and people more elitist than me consider 4k120 the real deal over 4k60.

The moment you have to turn down details and res, you are literally making compromises.

Simple as that.

On what game? On the vast majority throughout history? Nope. My point is correct. You're adding nonsense qualifiers.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I just can't anymore. Why would they knowingly release what is a relatively important game out in an unfinished state. Its not like they need the sales revenue. First impressions matter and the game will be dead before the 60fps patch arrives. I like the Series X. I find I am playing it as much as my PS5 which was not the same last time around. I feel like they sent the console out to die at this point. So they release Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo at 60fps on the PS5 but the first big game from Bethesda for Microsoft is 30fps at launch. Who are making these decisions. Sony shouldn't worry. Call of Duty will perform worse on the Series X.

Yeah, I think that's the type of critical thinking and discussion that should be happening in this thread -- especially now that we've got most of the jokes and memes out of our system.

I'll start.

Why do y'all think Microsoft is rushing the Redfall release without a 60 FPS? Because this is clearly not ready to be released and is being sent to its death. Here are a few possible reasons I can think of:

1. It's not Microsoft; it's Arkane. They could not get hold of the engine and get the 60 FPS going. Poor development; shit code. Microsoft just taking the "hands off" approach. Arkane missed.
2. It's because of Game Pass. Microsoft might be losing Game Pass subscribers and want to release a game as soon as possible to reignite engagement.
3. It's because of Xbox Series X. Arkane did its best, but Xbox Series X could not hold 60 FPS (IMO, this is the least likely option because Series X is plenty powerful).
4. It's because of Series S. Arkane had to design it around Series S, and because of that Series X development was held back.
5. It's because of Microsoft's E3 2022 show. They showed Redfall, Starfield, and Forza Motorsport in June 2022, promising that all 3 games would release in the next 12 months. Starfield and Forza have already been delayed. It'd look pretty stupid if they released 0 out of 3 games. So they are rushing at least 1 of them, trying to save face.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can contribute more, better possible reasons.

 

[Three]

It's just too wierd. Unless they're really CPU bound why would you do 4k30fps but not some FSR 1080p60fps mode or something. What are they trying to do, promote the PC version at $70 a pop near release?

Benchmarks should be fun at least in confirming what the bottleneck might be.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Legit concerns don't exist for 10/10 masterpieces, punk ass biatch

Man, I legit love you! we need this light hearted shit around here.

I am a punk assed biatch

I don’t think I’ve ever been in those threads because I’m still fatigued from 2018 and ZD. Those people are dip shit shills too.

I don’t understand your whataboutism, but whatever helps you defend the green rat clan I guess?

I must protect the rat clan...we are weak and suffering from severe lack of first party ip bangers....we are malnutritioned and only gamepass is keeping us alive.

 

[Black_Stride]

Here's an idea: Wait on releasing it until it's playable.

4K30 is "unplayable" now?


Im not defending not having a 60fps mode, cuz the game doesnt look particularly taxing, and Coalition got Gears 5 to run at 60 on a frikken Xbox One.
This is with a Series X|S, 60fps shouldnt be an issue.
But lets not act like 30fps is suddenly unplayable.

And I really do wonder what their reasoning is for not having a 60 or atleast 40fps mode.

 

[Naked Lunch]

Just a few years ago 30fps was the norm - most console people didnt care or even know what 60fps was.
I love the pushback and demand gamers have now.
30fps is unacceptable in this day and age.
If it was up to me I would delay,

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Yeah, I think that's the type of critical thinking and discussion that should be happening in this thread -- especially now that we've got most of the jokes and memes out of our system.

I'll start.

Why do y'all think Microsoft is rushing the Redfall release without a 60 FPS? Because this is clearly not ready to be released and is being sent to its death. Here are a few possible reasons I can think of:

1. It's not Microsoft; it's Arkane. They could not get hold of the engine and get the 60 FPS going. Poor development; shit code. Microsoft just taking the "hands off" approach. Arkane missed.
2. It's because of Game Pass. Microsoft might be losing Game Pass subscribers and want to release a game as soon as possible to reignite engagement.
3. It's because of Xbox Series X. Arkane did its best, but Xbox Series X could not hold 60 FPS (IMO, this is the least likely option because Series X is plenty powerful).
4. It's because of Series S. Arkane had to design it around Series S, and because of that Series X development was held back.
5. It's because of Microsoft's E3 2022 show. They showed Redfall, Starfield, and Forza Motorsport in June 2022, promising that all 3 games would release in the next 12 months. Starfield and Forza have already been delayed. It'd look pretty stupid if they released 0 out of 3 games. So they are rushing at least 1 of them, trying to save face.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can contribute more, better possible reasons.

They know they got a piece of doodoo on their hands and want to wash their hands already

 

[GHG]

Totally agree, I wish you would tell the people in the god of war and horizon threads about astroturfing i mean trying to convince people with legit concerns / negatives about games that their opinion is wrong.

Those high quality games released, reviewed well, they've sold well, people have enjoyed them, and they released with 60 fps modes. One of them even has DLC due to release shortly for everyone to enjoy.

When you start a thread on the premise of telling everyone that enjoyed those games that they are wrong then of course you're going to get people telling the OP and the small handful of people backing him (along with their alts) that they are pissing in a river. But don't worry, the convenient timing of those threads hasn't gone unnoticed.

So what exactly is your beef? Do you not want good games? It's not anyone else's fault that Microsoft are continually fumbling the bag, so all you have left is to tell everyone else to stop enjoying themselves.

The same pattern happened last year around the time that Ragnorak got confirmed for 2022, meanwhile Starfield was getting delayed. You had your meltdowns and then all you had left was to attack everyone who doesn't have any reason to wallow in misery. What a joyless way to live out your hobby.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

4K30 is "unplayable" now?

For a FPS? Absolutely. 10 years ago it'd be more acceptable cause 60fps were the golden standard. Today the golden standard is 120fps in FPS games - even on consoles.

 

[Physiognomonics]

4K30 is "unplayable" now?


Im not defending not having a 60fps mode, cuz the game doesnt look particularly taxing, and Coalition got Gears 5 to run at 60 on a frikken Xbox One.
This is with a Series X|S, 60fps shouldnt be an issue.
But lets not act like 30fps is suddenly unplayable.

And I really do wonder what their reasoning is for not having a 60 or atleast 40fps mode.

Yes it's the worse fps / res combination for me. I noticed that 30fps is looking perceptibly worse with higher resolutions. On PS3 720p 30fps wasn't a big problem (it's still not actually) but 4K 30fps is a big problem.

 

[Black_Stride]

For a FPS? Absolutely. 10 years ago it'd be more acceptable cause 60fps were the golden standard. Today the golden standard is 120fps in FPS games - even on consoles.

Not gonna deny what the golden standard is.
But lets not act like playing at 30fps is something so unfathomable we need to have a 20 page thread that populated in 10 seconds about having an FPS launch with 30fps......with the promise of 60fps down the line.

P.S:
Play on PC you dogs!!!

P.P.S:
Atleast half this thread is people who werent even gonna play Redfall but thats whats to be expected.

 

[damidu]

PS5 exclusives are mostly single player games. The closest thing to coop is demon souls which had coop working on a PS3.

If Starfield comes in and is a 30 fps game then yeah, its not a good look considering these are their first two true next gen titles, but I also think that as soon as we see games start to do more with the CPU like the matrix did with its traffic and NPC sims then you'll see this everywhere. on PS5, XSX and XSS. 30 fps with no 60 fps performance modes.

Anyway, i would like to see some more PC benchmarks of the 2080 or 6700xt paired with a decent CPU to say whether or not its an architectural issue with the xsx design. I remember running destiny at 720p 60 fps on my gtx 570 which was roughly on par with the ps4 but bungie never patched in a 60 fps mode on PS4. My CPU was a trashy $100 4 core AMD CPU from 2009 that ran at 2.5 ghz. No multi threading and it was able to run it at 60 as long as i reduced the resolution from 1080p.

this “sony will too” shit without a single example of a playstation first party game stuck in 30fps is ridiculous honestly.
sounds more like damage control

we will flak them too if they release a 30fps shooter, not before

 

[oldergamer]

Here's an idea: Wait on releasing it until it's playable.

its playable at 30fps. Saying or implying its not, is foolish

 

[8BiTw0LF]

its playable at 30fps. Saying or implying its not, is foolish

Sure you can "play" it - you can also play this:

 

[fermcr]

A promised feature isn't some post launch update. Don't be disingenuous.

Did Arkane promise Redfall would launch with 60fps on the Xbox Series?

 

[Edge Lord]

Fire matt booty and phil clown please.MS can't produce shit with those two on the helm.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

I don't understand their decision 4K/30 XSX & 1440/30 XSS........where is fucking FSR 2.0 ?

possible Plot twist: This is the resolution after FSR 2 has been applied.

 

[ANDS]

Twenty pages.

. . . also not a good look but hardly the death kneel people are grousing about. They honestly should have tried for a 40FPS mode if performance was an issue. Its how I'm running HFW and feels great (in terms of compromising).

That said, after the IGN debacle this is the last bit of news the studio likely wanted to put out. Messaging just needs to get tighter overall at this studio.

Arcane, what a fall.

True ARKANE fans don't bother getting the name right. Shine on!

 

[onQ123]

This makes no sense, what is a 'low effort environment' in your opinion? Is it letting a developer delay a game to their requirement instead of pushing it out much earlier when its nowhere near feature/content complete? Is that what you're calling a low effort environment ?

For the second line, a shadow dropped game like Hi-Fi Rush, which came out without absolutely any pre-release hype or marketing, got 2 million players in 1, 2 weeks. A good game will be a success.

It make a lot of sense because if you know you're going to see a lower return on your investment you're not going to work as hard & you're not going to put even more into it.

Hifi Rush did not do as good as people hyped it up to do , for instance I don't remember it charting but now we have a game like Tchia which was also available on a subscription based platform day one that found it's way into the UK sales chart.

 

[Mephisto40]

I'm surprised Microsoft have even allowed them to do that tbh

30fps for a FPS that looks like a last gen game is diabolical

 

[GymWolf]

On what game? On the vast majority throughout history? Nope. My point is correct. You're adding nonsense qualifiers.

What the fuck doesn't even mean throught the history?

I'm talking about modern games of course.

And you need a very powerful pc to get no compromises.

Is your original point that is nonsense, high framerate on console is always gonna directly make the graphic worse and a game made with 30 fps in mind is always gonna look better than the same game at 60, deal with it, it has always been like that, deal with it.

Let's just agree ti disagree.

 

[Madserb2023]

For a FPS? Absolutely. 10 years ago it'd be more acceptable cause 60fps were the golden standard. Today the golden standard is 120fps in FPS games - even on consoles.

Absolutely this. Call if Duty 2 on the 360 was 60fps in 2005. I think Halo 4 was the last 30fps first person shooter game I played. It has become the standard now as with fighting games 20 years ago. I didn't have a problem with 480p but I wouldn't except it now even if was playable.

 

[onQ123]

Wow, I've just woken up and this is 14 pages. What the eff is going on in here?

Time to brisk through this...in fact, I bet it won't be good for anyone's soul.

Edit 18 pages! Holy shit. Probs more than any redfall thread combined hahaha

I said this has finally caused some hype around this game & hopefully they get the patch out like a week after lunch & capitalize off the buzz.

 

[RoboFu]

FPS and Racers should never be 30fps.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

What the fuck doesn't even mean throught the history?

I'm talking about modern games of course.

And you need a very powerful pc to get no compromises.

Is your original point that is nonsense, high framerate on console is always gonna directly make the graphic worse and a game made with 30 fps in mind is always gonna look better than the same game at 60, deal with it, it has always been like that, deal with it.

Let's just agree ti disagree.

You're not making any sense at all. The vast majority of modern games can be run at 60fps or higher on PC as well. Specs are irrelevant. PC is not a fixed platform like consoles. You can get 60fps or more without sacrificing quality. That statement is 100 percent correct. You can add additional qualifiers all you want it does make it wrong.

As far as consoles go I'm 100 percent correct there as well. The vast majority of games were designed with 60fps in mind to begin with. 30 fps wasn't even an option. So you could say they would look better at 30 all you want but they weren't made that way.

 

[Astray]

Yeah, I think that's the type of critical thinking and discussion that should be happening in this thread -- especially now that we've got most of the jokes and memes out of our system.

I'll start.

Why do y'all think Microsoft is rushing the Redfall release without a 60 FPS? Because this is clearly not ready to be released and is being sent to its death. Here are a few possible reasons I can think of:

1. It's not Microsoft; it's Arkane. They could not get hold of the engine and get the 60 FPS going. Poor development; shit code. Microsoft just taking the "hands off" approach. Arkane missed.
2. It's because of Game Pass. Microsoft might be losing Game Pass subscribers and want to release a game as soon as possible to reignite engagement.
3. It's because of Xbox Series X. Arkane did its best, but Xbox Series X could not hold 60 FPS (IMO, this is the least likely option because Series X is plenty powerful).
4. It's because of Series S. Arkane had to design it around Series S, and because of that Series X development was held back.
5. It's because of Microsoft's E3 2022 show. They showed Redfall, Starfield, and Forza Motorsport in June 2022, promising that all 3 games would release in the next 12 months. Starfield and Forza have already been delayed. It'd look pretty stupid if they released 0 out of 3 games. So they are rushing at least 1 of them, trying to save face.

That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure others can contribute more, better possible reasons.

Microsoft just needs something, anything to stay alive in this contest until the ABK acquisition closes. You look at hardware sales and shit is collapsing much faster than anyone could have anticipated, to the point where they can't really spin or obfuscate it away.

If that means throwing a few studios into the fire then so be it.

 

[yamaci17]

I wonder whats causing this. The game doesn't look that graphically taxing, or anymore complex than say a game like Warframe.

its the regular ol' cpu bottleneck

zen 2 is pretty horrible unless you optimize your game to hit 30 fps on 1.6 ghz jag cores

only reason many games got carefree 60 fps modes was because the base work was already laid out for them (extreme optimizations that were made so that 1.6 ghz jag can hit 30 fps)

since there's no obligation to hit 30 fps on 1.6 ghz jag cores with nextgen exclusive games; they can now leave those extremely time consuming optimizations aside and just do regular optimization passes. and zen 2 3.7 ghz is simply not good enough to brute force 60 fps in such an occasion

this game is just a front headed scapegoat. more games will follow. only reason gowr/forbidden west and such hits 60-80 fps on zen 2 3.7 ghz is because base work for hitting 30 fps jag 1.6 ghz already made the game immensely cpu optimized

 

[Team Andromeda]

"Hide behind the 30 FPS load of crap either" That's the entire point.

It's not uncommon to see a controller being used during pre-release game footage with the game running on a PC, especially for genres that play much better with a controller, like Sonic Frontiers. This usually isn't too big of a deal, as the footage in most cases is very comparable to the console counterparts.

What is uncommon is showing off a First Person Shooter with Xbox controller prompts less than a month before its release with a frame rate that is not even supported on the platform that the button prompts are typically associated with.

Like I said you're just sh8t stirring. When I saw Cyberpunk being played with an XBox pad and prompts. I didn't think it was running on an XBox One for one sec.
Most games when shown off even if they're holding an XBox Pad are running on a PC and you know that full well

 

[GymWolf]

You're not making any sense at all. The vast majority of modern games can be run at 60fps or higher on PC as well. Specs are irrelevant. PC is not a fixed platform like consoles. You can get 60fps or more without sacrificing quality. That statement is 100 percent correct. You can add additional qualifiers all you want it does make it wrong.

As far as consoles go I'm 100 percent correct there as well. The vast majority of games were designed with 60fps in mind to begin with. 30 fps wasn't even an option. So you could say they would look better at 30 all you want but they weren't made that way.

Those "qualifiers" are literally what "no compromises" means, at least on pc, of course you can tailor settings to get 60 frames, but that was not my point.

And you are wrong on the console side aswell when we have fucking examples of games with different modes where the 60 fps mode looks worse than the 30 fps one, and you still think that a game made around 30 fps would not look better than the same game at 60? going from 30 to 60 is not free on the performance budget dude, not sure how you can think otherwise.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I just can't anymore. Why would they knowingly release what is a relatively important game out in an unfinished state. Its not like they need the sales revenue. First impressions matter and the game will be dead before the 60fps patch arrives. I like the Series X. I find I am playing it as much as my PS5 which was not the same last time around. I feel like they sent the console out to die at this point. So they release Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo at 60fps on the PS5 but the first big game from Bethesda for Microsoft is 30fps at launch. Who are making these decisions. Sony shouldn't worry. Call of Duty will perform worse on the Series X.

Any game with Day 1 Gamepass is going to be dead anyways. No one's going to voluntarily buy a game they can play for free.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Showing 1st party games on PC and having hands on sessions on PC is Cyberpunk levels of hiding shit.

It's just common and it's not hiding shit. It was made clear when Bethesda held an event in London a few weeks back for the press and some lucky gamers, that it was being played on a PC

 

[oldergamer]

Sure you can "play" it - you can also play this:

uh huh. You guys that claim a game is unplayable or unfinished because they decide that 60fps isn't a priority for first launch are completely unreasonable. you're complaining about some serious dumb shit, because you don't have anything else to complain about.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

because you don't have anything else to complain about.

For this game? el oh el

 

[Rykan]

Like I said you're just sh8t stirring. When I saw Cyberpunk being played with an XBox pad and prompts. I didn't think it was running on an XBox One for one sec.
Most games when shown off even if they're holding an XBox Pad are running on a PC and you know that full well

Ah, yes. Cyberpunk. Certainly a game that had no controversy whatsoever about its misrepresentation of performance on certain platforms. What a fantastic example.

I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Why do you keep saying that "Most games when shown off even if they're holding an XBox Pad are running on a PC and you know that full well" when I have never argued otherwise?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Microsoft just needs something, anything to stay alive in this contest until the ABK acquisition closes. You look at hardware sales and shit is collapsing much faster than anyone could have anticipated, to the point where they can't really spin or obfuscate it away.

If that means throwing a few studios into the fire then so be it.

So you think it's Microsoft rushing the release and sending Arkane/Redfall to death because they haven't been able to hit their business goals?

It makes sense, as I've noticed that developers/studios usually care a lot more about their games (and subsequent reception) that suits and executives that aren't a part of those studios.

But do you think Redfall will help them move consoles? I seriously doubt that. The game doesn't look anywhere near a system-seller. It looks very AA and indie-ish to me.

 

[Assaulty]

There goes any desire I had left to play this game on the big tv on series x. Will check it out on my pc if I can be bothered, but the game looks pretty mid from what I've seen.

 

[Three]

People are really exaggerating with 30fps being unplayable with shooters. Destiny 2 on PS4/XB1 launched at 30fps and was perfectly playable and became popular on those platforms.

I get that this is a next gen only release and we're no longer on PS4/XB1 but 'unplayable' is just hyperbole. It's just weird to me that they concentrated on 4k and the game doesn't seem to be doing much to be CPU bound.

 

[GymWolf]

Yes, but at the same time when playing in motion that image quality takes a hit in my opinion. To me, the choppiness of the gameplay is so distracting that it negates the increased fidelity. If I'm in photomode then sure, much better, but otherwise I like at 60 fps in just about any game and I say to myself it just looks better. Not sure if that will make sense to anyone else, but that's just how my eyes see it.

But not disagreeing with what you are saying. 60 fps definitely reduces each image's quality.

Sure, especially on oled tv, 30 fps just feels bad except some rare cases.

That's why i have a powerfull pc to play 98% of games without console compromises.

 

[adamsapple]

Or ... forcing the developer to release the game in May when it's clearly not ready and needs more time? As devs are delaying 60 FPS Performance Mode and Online-Only things for post-launch?

So they're either fostering a lazy environment because they allow developers to take more time and also forcing them to release a game 'early' despite giving it a 12 month extension?

People are really exaggerating with 30fps being unplayable with shooters. Destiny 2 on PS4/XB1 launched at 30fps and was perfectly playable and became popular on those platforms.

I get that this is a next gen only release and we're no longer on PS4/XB1 but 'unplayable' is just hyperbole. It's just weird to me that they concentrated on 4k and the game doesn't seem to be doing much to be CPU bound.

Completely un-tethered 4 player co-op maybe. But, again, not having a 60 FPS mode ... especially for a shooter .. at launch is still a very bad look.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Those "qualifiers" are literally what "no compromises" means, at least on pc, of course you can tailor settings to get 60 frames, but that was not my point.

And you are wrong on the console side aswell when we have fucking examples of games with different modes where the 60 fps mode looks worse than the 30 fps one, and you still think that a game made around 30 fps would not look better than the same game at 60? going from 30 to 60 is not free on the performance budget dude, not sure how you can think otherwise.

I never said consoles didn't need some sort of compromise to get to 60fps. Quote me where I said that. I did simply say that you don't need to compromise. Which is 100 percent correct. On PC. I'm sorry I wasn't specific enough but I thought you would be able to understand that.

It's also irrelevant anyway when the vast majority of games that have sold throughout it's history are 60fps. Which I also stated which is 100 percent correct.