Support NeoGAF

[jason10mm]

Anyone else think the bigger problem is that these companies even feel the need to hire a 3rd party like this. Almost as if the executives are actually pieces of shit so they assume the entire office is. Wonder how inclusive and diverse upper management is?

Thats the thing, upper management is virtually 100% straight white males, so they go to these "groups" in order to protect themselves from backlash, real or false, that is aimed that their sex, ethnicity, and sexual orientation because somehow we have allowed white cishet men to be fair game. That's the grift.

In the middle, it's often white cishet men and women who are the loudest "allies" to this stuff because they think it will mean they get to stay and play after the revolution. It just means you are bit later on the chopping block.

 

[Randall365]

The weird thing with PC Gamer is I think that now it is mostly English journalists trying to write in a way they think appeals to US customers for sales over there. I doubt they believe half of what they post.

I subscribed for years (since PC Zone ended), but I stopped my sub last year because of all the JK Rowling nonsense (the other bizarre reviews they had - the Deliverance one in particular).

It is sad, because video games mags used to be great - the first half of a review used to be comedy, irreverant writing quite often - now it is like a sixth formers blog. Oh well - they lose the sales I guess, because I can't see the kids these days subscribing.

 

[DaciaJC]

It seems inevitable that the group is going to be banned or deleted by Steam. After all, Valve is a client of Sweet Baby Incorporated.

Not so!

 

[Kamina]

GameStar, one of the biggest gaming sites in Germany:

BIG "One of the biggest Steam curators, 'Sweet Baby Inc detected,' is currently fueling a huge hate campaign on the internet."

small "We explain why a consulting firm for games like Alan Wake 2, God of War Ragnarok, and Suicide Squad is being massively threatened."

Of course they deactivated the comments on this.

I usually like their news, but they are also part of the problem.

 

[elementalnocturne]

Thanks for the heads up, i will avoid the game

If you’re going to see an out of context picture and immediately go along with a narrative without questioning it then you’re being just as dogmatic as the activist journalist types.

 

[jason10mm]

Not so!

Of course valve supports this, they must know the vocal loonies don't actually buy games whilst the hundreds of thousands who support this probably drop hundreds a year on steam. Hell, they probably got an accountant running the numbers right now as I imagine they can pull the list of folks that supported this and cross reference their games list.

 

[Guilty_AI]

If you’re going to see an out of context picture and immediately go along with a narrative without questioning it then you’re being just as dogmatic as the activist journalist types.

 

[Lions Gate]

It’s 10 years since Gamergate – the industry must now stand up to far-right trolls

Conspiracy theorists are still routinely targeting and abusing women and ‘woke’ game consultants. With a small studio currently under fire, the games industry’s silence is deafening

www.theguardian.com

Another hit piece, This time from gurdian

And you guessed it right, another confused they/them bi/polar person

 

[YCoCg]

The CEO decided to unlock her account to shit on Toriyama's legacy

They're just victim fishing at this point, not content with pissing off gamers they had to post a take so fucked up that it also pisses off anime fans, animation fans, manga fans, nearly everyone including Latinos who followed Dragon Ball like a religion!

They'll probably turn around after more backlash and say some assinine shit like "the poor LatinX community are brainwashed by white values, why can't they see this?".

 

[fart town usa]

Some effing douche bag who I guess was patient zero of GG1 posted some thread on X. So predictable. "Hur dur this is a conspiracy for racists and bigots who reside in an echo chamber..."

Just F off. This nonsense is so predictable and these effing companies and marxists admit to these things during panels and conferences but once they're exposed they try to gas light everyone.

I hope the autists keep digging and keep the spotlight on them. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

 

[Aenima]

It’s 10 years since Gamergate – the industry must now stand up to far-right trolls

Conspiracy theorists are still routinely targeting and abusing women and ‘woke’ game consultants. With a small studio currently under fire, the games industry’s silence is deafening

www.theguardian.com

They look like ppl manufactored in the same assembly line.

 

[WoJ]

These fucking clowns. CoNsPiRaCY tHeOrIez and fAr RizghT is the go to for these losers. that's their go to dog whistle when they get called on their bullshit.

There are very few people who don't want any diversity in video games. Most people object to the bastardization of existing IPs or forced diversity where it makes zero sense. If a game chooses to have its setting to resemble medieval Europe having the majority of people in that game be white is just logical.

Create a new IP and make it set in Africa if you want to see more black people in games. Make a game in an urban/cyberpunk setting if you want a pink haired trans woman as your main protagonist and create compelling gameplay systems and a good narrative. People will buy your game if it's good. But don't get mad when shoe horn out of place nonsense into games where it makes zero sense or into existing IPs where it didn't exist.

These are the same clowns who bitched about FFXVI having a white cast and boycotted Hogwarts Legacy.

CoNspIraCY TheOrIzTs and ALt RiGhT. Get the fuck out of here, stop smelling your own farts and suck my d*** with shit on it.

 

[shoplifter]

I love how GG has now come full circle but far fewer people are falling for the blue hairs this time. We've even got Grayson chiming in, Anita doing something stupid...we only need Literally Who to make it perfect

edit: not to mention that we don't have to walk on eggshells around here to discuss it this time

 

[EviLore]

edit: not to mention that we don't have to walk on eggshells around here to discuss it this time

Not a big fan of culture wars, but this situation seems highly relevant to the current gaming landscape.

As long as people stay tactful and sane.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Lol this really is Gamergate all over again - except this time around I don't think they're going to get away with it quite as easily. Far more people see through their bullshit now than back in 2014, when (ironically) websites like this one and Reddit were able to control the narrative and make it all about 'white male gamers' bad.

This time literally no one gives the tiniest shit about anything gaming "journalists" have to say. They threw away all of their remaining credibility when they collectively pretended Hogwarts Legacy didn't exist and it went on to sell 24+ million copies

 

[Woggleman]

The thing that went wrong the first time is that a few bad actors made rape threats, death threats and doxxed people and it put people off. Even the nicest and most rational woman has a visceral reaction to that.

There needs to be none of that this time and if there is those actors need to be thrown under the bus harshly and quickly.

Let the gamers form the narrative of being the sane and rational party.

 

[LordCBH]

GamesJournalism was a mistake. It’s nothing but trash.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This time literally no one gives the tiniest shit about anything gaming "journalists" have to say. They threw away all of their remaining credibility when they collectively pretended Hogwarts Legacy didn't exist and it went on to sell 24+ million copies

That's media people tossing in their personal politics into work. Whether someone likes or hates JK Rowling should make no difference in reviewing a video game. But leave it to gaming industry employees to act weird.

I'm sure there's got to be examples of shady car execs. I dont think any car reviewer boycotts a review or purposely grills the car because Ernie the Exec at head office did shady things or has a political view they dont like. They just review the car like any other brand.

 

[pathztig]

The things you guys are saying are just so "China". As a Chinese, every day on our own website, all I see is ridicule of Western progressive values. I didn't expect to see the same thing when I crossed the Internet wall. Honestly, those bad games, ，if all their character models are replaced with those from Korean online games，they would still be bad games . I don't believe that "ugly" is the reason why characters in games such like Starfield Fable and Dying Light are bad , if those “not attractive” characters could perform as vividly as Trevor from GTA, they would still be excellent characters . Poor writing, bad animation and lighting ruin those characters. I don't believe that 'political correctness' can serve as an excuse for the developers' lack of skill.

 

[Red5]

Most of the serious video game "journalists", meaning people who write meaningful content about video games or investigations into the industry have either left to other industries or migrated to video on youtube.

Kieron Gillen was one the best writers on PC Gamer, he wrote one of the best articles about Thief 3 (https://www.pcgamer.com/journeying-into-the-cradle-in-thief-deadly-shadows/), he's successfully writing comics now.

Richard Cobbett was another great PC Gamer writer who's now writing video games and he wrote Sunless Sea and Sunless Skies.

Most of what's left are talentless skilless sycophants who just fill out clickbait titles.

 

[CGNoire]

Woke? Anti-woke? Both sides are becoming as bad as the other. Glad I am too old or dumb to get worked up over it.

Only one has power and control over a mass of institutions to make its Will Manifest. There not so equal.

 

[Kamina]

If you’re going to see an out of context picture and immediately go along with a narrative without questioning it then you’re being just as dogmatic as the activist journalist types.

I hear you, however, how important is more context on the story really if the picture already provides enough information on the fact that the writer decided to use racially provocative language?
Yes, this is a minor moment, and yes, i have only heard good things otherwise from AW2. However, too often have I watched movies or played games in recent times that add such unnecessary language, so I would rather like to use my money on games that do not make me roll my eyes.

 

[Tangerine]

Lets give credit for the pioneer.

Translation: "You better give me protection money, because it would be such a shame if the entire internet dog piled on you for being sexist and tried to cancel you."



Also, we are billions! Billions I say! (checks notes) almost a quarter of a million is still damn good! Maybe it will reach 250k, I thought we were at the last milestone after 200k. Just goes to show how many people are sick of this mob threatening devs and ruining our games.

 

[Last Hearth]

The things you guys are saying are just so "China". As a Chinese, every day on our own website, all I see is ridicule of Western progressive values. I didn't expect to see the same thing when I crossed the Internet wall. Honestly, those bad games, ，if all their character models are replaced with those from Korean online games，they would still be bad games . I don't believe that "ugly" is the reason why characters in games such like Starfield Fable and Dying Light are bad , if those “not attractive” characters could perform as vividly as Trevor from GTA, they would still be excellent characters . Poor writing, bad animation and lighting ruin those characters. I don't believe that 'political correctness' can serve as an excuse for the developers' lack of skill.

Political correctly is how the talentless hacks who have no talent are hired at those companies, and why you end up with poor writing and horrible game design.

 

[Lord Panda]

You inspired me to generate some more appropriate branding for everyone's favourite company right now:

Spoiler

 

[elementalnocturne]

I hear you, however, how important is more context on the story really if the picture already provides enough information on the fact that the writer decided to use racially provocative language?
Yes, this is a minor moment, and yes, i have only heard good things otherwise from AW2. However, too often have I watched movies or played games in recent times that add such unnecessary language, so I would rather like to use my money on games that do not make me roll my eyes.

I said it already earlier in the thread but the context matters a lot in this instance.

The character is having a mental breakdown at that very moment and her insecurities are taking over all of her thoughts. The game portrays the thoughts she’s having as bad and something to overcome. The character goes through the struggle and fights it off. It’s not as egregious as the out of context quote makes you believe.

That line is preceded with another line about how she’s a failure at her job and as a parent and that she has no perception of what is real vs fiction. It’s part of a very manic stream of consciousness with a range of emotion from fear to anger to depression. It doesn’t represent her true feelings. She has to fight to become herself again.

 

[Kamina]

I said it already earlier in the thread but the context matters a lot in this instance.

The character is having a mental breakdown at that very moment and her insecurities are taking over all of her thoughts. The game portrays the thoughts she’s having as bad and something to overcome. The character goes through the struggle and fights it off. It’s not as egregious as the out of context quote makes you believe.

That line is preceded with another line about how she’s a failure at her job and as a parent and that she has no perception of what is real vs fiction. It’s part of a very manic stream of consciousness with a range of emotion from fear to anger to depression. It doesn’t represent her true feelings. She has to fight to become herself again.

Thanks for the insight. Yes, context matters.

 

[Tangerine]

I said it already earlier in the thread but the context matters a lot in this instance.

The character is having a mental breakdown at that very moment and her insecurities are taking over all of her thoughts. The game portrays the thoughts she’s having as bad and something to overcome. The character goes through the struggle and fights it off. It’s not as egregious as the out of context quote makes you believe.

That line is preceded with another line about how she’s a failure at her job and as a parent and that she has no perception of what is real vs fiction. It’s part of a very manic stream of consciousness with a range of emotion from fear to anger to depression. It doesn’t represent her true feelings. She has to fight to become herself again.

Sounds like a good way to sneak in racism towards white people. Because repetition is one of their tactics to shift the overton window.

If the races were reversed I hope you two would still so vehemently defend the dialogue in the game in this section. You know, to be consistent. If you wouldn't defend it, I rest my case.

 

[elementalnocturne]

Sounds like a good way to sneak in racism towards white people. Because repetition is one of their tactics to shift the overton window.

If the races were reversed I hope you two would still so vehemently defend the dialogue in the game in this section. You know, to be consistent. If you wouldn't defend it, I rest my case.

I’m on the same page as everyone else in this thread with regards to Sweet Baby Inc and the trend of DEI in games and other media.

I just think it’s unfair to group Alan Wake 2 in with the rest of them and I hate to see it get attacked. I really don’t think that’s the case but I’m not going to convince you.

Also to answer your question, yes, I would be consistent if it were reversed.

 

[Tangerine]

Also to answer your question, yes, I would be consistent if it were reversed.

Well its good to be consistent.

So did it take you back a bit to hear that character being racist randomly even in the setting of some sort of mental breakdown? I say randomly because I believe this is the only racist thing in the game?

Because of that did it make you wonder, 'where did that come from!? I didn't know this character was racist...' or 'I didn't know this character had some underlying issue with white people.'

Did it make you view the character in a slightly less positive way from then onwards?

Genuine questions. I don't think it would be as palatable if the races were reversed and that's an issue. If you like the game that's fair enough... it's possible for a line of dialogue to not hit the mark. In this case they messed up a lot, in my opinion.

 

[Terenty]

I just think it’s unfair to group Alan Wake 2 in with the rest of them and I hate to see it get attacked. I really don’t think that’s the case but I’m not going to convince you.

Ok, can you name even one game in the history of gaming where a white character called a black one a "black asshole"?

 

[elementalnocturne]

Well its good to be consistent.

So did it take you back a bit to hear that character being racist randomly even in the setting of some sort of mental breakdown? I say randomly because I believe this is the only racist thing in the game?

Because of that did it make you wonder, 'where did that come from!? I didn't know this character was racist...' or 'I didn't know this character had some underlying issue with white people.'

Did it make you view the character in a slightly less positive way from then onwards?

Genuine questions. I don't think it would be as palatable if the races were reversed and that's an issue. If you like the game that's fair enough... it's possible for a line of dialogue to not hit the mark. In this case they messed up a lot, in my opinion.

The way the scene plays out is that the voices in her head are being weaponized against her to make her drown in her insecurities. The whole scene is meant to be unsettling and out of character.

I don’t feel less positive about the character because the character is already feeling less positive about herself. It’s just not a case where the writers are preaching to the audience. Nothing she is saying in that moment is presented as positive. She’s screaming about what a failure she is and then immediately justifying it in a manic stream of consciousness.

You don’t think it would be palatable if the races were reversed? If this were presented as a white man overcoming his racism the game would win all the GOTYs and the Nobel Peace prize. LOL

 

[Lucumo]

The very last issue of Retro Gamer that they published before killing the magazine and Langer deciding to publish it by himself, they mistakenly delivered one big-ass box of magazines of the same issue. Of course billing me appropriately (about 100€) and, after contacting their customer support each week over months, and after promises of paying me back etc... Nothing. Just nothing. And the worst part is that each time I've called the customer support, they acted like I've been calling them for the first time.

Langer also talked about how they demanded Retro Gamer to cut costs (fewer pages, cheaper paper).

Yeah, customer support can be absolutely terrible in some cases.
I once had a case where I got two copies of a magazine delivered (like 20 years ago) but since I had a subscription and paid in advance (to get a free PC game), I was told to just keep it. So I'm wondering how it even happened in your case. In a case of a subscription, it shouldn't happen. If you ordered it online, it shouldn't happen either, as you get a receipt where the amount of money you pay and what you buy should be listed. Sounds all messed up for sure.

Heh, not a fan of cheaper paper. I generally liked the composition of everything. I actually looked into buying it again but I would only start from the beginning but ordering the old magazines was impossible and it seems it's not even possible anymore at all (even the newer ones): "An dieser Stelle fanden Sie vor Kurzem noch unser Retro Gamer-Magazin. Aus lizenzrechtlichen Gründen erhalten Sie dieses leider nicht mehr im heise Shop. "

https://www.kultboy.com/Retro-Gamer-deutsch-Zeitschrift/494/ Also seems to be missing at least one of the "compilation" edition which released ~2014.

It’s 10 years since Gamergate – the industry must now stand up to far-right trolls

Conspiracy theorists are still routinely targeting and abusing women and ‘woke’ game consultants. With a small studio currently under fire, the games industry’s silence is deafening

www.theguardian.com

Another hit piece, This time from gurdian

And you guessed it right, another confused they/them bi/polar person

It's funny how often the hair + the kind of glasses are common with these people.

 

[Tangerine]

The way the scene plays out is that the voices in her head are being weaponized against her to make her drown in her insecurities. The whole scene is meant to be unsettling and out of character.

I don’t feel less positive about the character because the character is already feeling less positive about herself. It’s just not a case where the writers are preaching to the audience. Nothing she is saying in that moment is presented as positive. She’s screaming about what a failure she is and then immediately justifying it in a manic stream of consciousness.

You don’t think it would be palatable if the races were reversed? If this were presented as a white man overcoming his racism the game would win all the GOTYs and the Nobel Peace prize. LOL

That's what it was about? Presented as a black person overcoming his racism? If not what on earth comparisons are you making?

You know if it was swapped it would be perceived differently by a lot of people. You are either disingenuous and can't be wrong/blinded by bias as you love the game, or you are woke.

I still can't get over your GOTY comparison. Presenting it in the ONLY possible way for a white person to get away with racism towards black people. So disingenuous.

 

[nush]

Community notes stay winning.

 

[Aces High]

It’s 10 years since Gamergate – the industry must now stand up to far-right trolls

Conspiracy theorists are still routinely targeting and abusing women and ‘woke’ game consultants. With a small studio currently under fire, the games industry’s silence is deafening

www.theguardian.com

Another hit piece, This time from gurdian

And you guessed it right, another confused they/them bi/polar person

I read the entire article from start to finish.

The author presents selective information and leaves out important information that the reader would need to form an educated opinion.

The article does not mention the fact that Sweet Baby employees tried to cancel the Steam curator just for creating the group. It does not mention that the CEO of Sweet Baby has a history of racist posts on Twitter. It does not mention that crazy video of the CEO where she calls for blackmailing companies to reach their goals.

Instead, the author mixes his personal opinions with the carefully selected information, presenting them as facts.

When important information is omitted and personal opinions are presented as facts, it will lead to the spread of misinformation.

This inconsistent and biased reporting will contribute to cynicism and distrust towards not just the media, but also the entire gaming industry.

People are not receiving the full picture.

Information is being manipulated.

What this author doesn't understand:

This trust erosion will eventually extend beyond individual stories or outlets to the media as a whole, undermining its role as a pillar of democracy.

Shame on these people.

 

[elementalnocturne]

That's what it was about? Presented as a black person overcoming his racism? If not what on earth comparisons are you making?

You know if it was swapped it would be perceived differently by a lot of people. You are either disingenuous and can't be wrong/blinded by bias as you love the game, or you are woke.

I still can't get over your GOTY comparison. Presenting it in the ONLY possible way for a white person to get away with racism towards black people. So disingenuous.

It was presented as a person overcoming their “demons” so to speak. It’s about much more than just one line and one issue. I keep saying it’s not presented positively in game.

We can just disagree on this. There is no need to instantly jump to bad faith accusations. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[elementalnocturne]

It was presented as a person overcoming their “demons” so to speak. It’s about much more than just one line and one issue. I keep saying it’s not presented positively in game.

We can just disagree on this. There is no need to instantly jump to bad faith accusations. Thanks for the discussion.

I would encourage everyone to actually play the game. It’s a great survival horror game with good writing and character development. Something missing in most AAA games.

 

[FeralEcho]

These are the cunts the media is defending.They couldn't last a day so the world can mourn the passing of a great man.

Worthless vile egotistical cunts,the only time they'll have visitors coming to their graves to reminisce on their acomplishments in life will be the ocasional stray dog finding a good spot to take a piss...

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Sounds like a good way to sneak in racism towards white people. Because repetition is one of their tactics to shift the overton window.

If the races were reversed I hope you two would still so vehemently defend the dialogue in the game in this section. You know, to be consistent. If you wouldn't defend it, I rest my case.

I would agree with this if those people were capable of any subtility or nuance. They are not. They are loud, with their fists raised every single time.

The message fits their agenda but is not that bad when you consider the context. For them, context never matters, so that's why they wouldn't bother to "conceal it" like that. They would rub it in your face.

 

[makaveli60]

That's what it was about? Presented as a black person overcoming his racism? If not what on earth comparisons are you making?

You know if it was swapped it would be perceived differently by a lot of people. You are either disingenuous and can't be wrong/blinded by bias as you love the game, or you are woke.

I still can't get over your GOTY comparison. Presenting it in the ONLY possible way for a white person to get away with racism towards black people. So disingenuous.

Allow me to chime in. I think it’s pretty obvious that I’m among the loudest of those who oppose this brainwashing pc woke bullshit on neogaf, but the person you are arguing with is right. That certain sentence is definitely portrayed as wrong, the character at that point is struggling with her dark, negative thoughts about others and herself. So in that context that sentence is portrayed as “negative”.
Now if it was the other way around, colors changed, I don’t think they would dare to do that but that’s a different question.

 

[Tangerine]

I would agree with this if those people were capable of any subtility or nuance. They are not. They are loud, with their fists raised every single time.

The message fits their agenda but is not that bad when you consider the context. For them, context never matters, so that's why they wouldn't bother to "conceal it" like that. They would rub it in your face.

I see where you are coming from.

I guess I would say don't underestimate them. I agree most have the subtlety of bad fart but there are some smarter ones capable... they have had a lot of time to learn.

I just feel they have had a far more damaging effect on gaming than we realise.

 

[Tangerine]

Allow me to chime in. I think it’s pretty obvious that I’m among the loudest of those who oppose this brainwashing pc woke bullshit on neogaf, but the person you are arguing with is right. That certain sentence is definitely portrayed as wrong, the character at that point is struggling with her dark, negative thoughts about others and herself. So in that context that sentence is portrayed as “negative”.
Now if it was the other way around, colors changed, I don’t think they would dare to do that but that’s a different question.

I agree they wouldn't do it if the races were swapped. That's all I've been trying to get at! Maybe I'm not getting point across well.

I just don't like double standards. There's no reverse racism just racism. You can be racist to white people despite what some on the far left believe.

So when I see admittedly out of context racism towards white people that wouldn't fly if the colours were swapped... to me that's racism!

No disrespect to anyone on here by the way. I know we can disagree its all good.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Has Sweet Baby Inc. ever been involved in a Nintendo game? What about any niche Japanese games? All I know is I don't ever want to purchase a game they've worked on.

 

[nush]

Has Sweet Baby Inc. ever been involved in a Nintendo game?

 

[StereoVsn]

I like to think of them as marketers. I'm big into cars and it's the same way.

Any industry where a manufacturer gives a reviewer product is beholden to keeping the manufacturer happy. Hence, they're marketers.

Yep, that’s a very apt comparison. Most car “journalists “ aren’t that really since they heavily depend on advertisement money from the very car companies they are reviewing.

Consumer Reports is perhaps the only one that will offer proper criticism and they don’t call themselves journalists. I think “media@ is another proper term to use here.

 

[Phase]

I read the entire article from start to finish.

What this author doesn't understand:

This trust erosion will eventually extend beyond individual stories or outlets to the media as a whole, undermining its role as a pillar of democracy.

Shame on these people.

That's already happened to a great extent. This is just reinforcing many people's distrust with media.

 

[nush]

Spoiler: Senior narrative designer of Bungie

says gamers need to grow up.

 

[ZoukGalaxy]

"Gaming journalists", I stopped there.

To "Journalists":

 

[Facism]

Spoiler: Senior narrative designer of Bungie

says gamers need to grow up.

This man is alternate-universe Wesley Crusher