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[Doomtrain]

I love how they always cast “gamers” as some monolithic entity, as if people from all walks of life don’t enjoy games.

 

[cormack12]

Games outlets: we need DEI to represent all the diverse players - Trans, black, disabled, Latinx and women.

Games outlets: all gamers are white, racist males who just cry.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I love how they always cast “gamers” as some monolithic entity, as if people from all walks of life don’t enjoy games.

This was sort of the thrust of the original "gamergate" wasn't it? Like how it got its name? Someone saying they didn't want to identify as a gamer for fear of sounding like a sweaty loser raging about "western civilization" or whatever, and then a bunch of people calling themselves gamers getting really sweaty about that.

Games are obviously mass market now. Not nearly as dominated by any particular demographic as in the past. But as always we get judged by the ones waving their flag the highest and screaming the loudest.

 

[nush]

This was sort of the thrust of the original "gamergate" wasn't it?

 

[InterMusketeer]

This was sort of the thrust of the original "gamergate" wasn't it? Like how it got its name? Someone saying they didn't want to identify as a gamer for fear of sounding like a sweaty loser raging about "western civilization" or whatever, and then a bunch of people calling themselves gamers getting really sweaty about that.

Games are obviously mass market now. Not nearly as dominated by any particular demographic as in the past. But as always we get judged by the ones waving their flag the highest and screaming the loudest.

No, it started with journalists shitting on their audience because they hate white, straight men. In that sense, nothing has changed.

 

[SF Kosmo]

No, it started with journalists shitting on their audience because they hate white, straight men. In that sense, nothing has changed.

Probably 80% of the gaming journalists I have known are straight white men.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Gaming journalists are no longer relevant. Your just a department of publishers marketing efforts. Youtubers came in and ate your lunch for you.

Youtubers are all in the pockets of the publishers too though. Only a small handful that have any integrity.

 

[InterMusketeer]

Probably 80% of the gaming journalists I have known are straight white men.

How does that relate to my post?

 

[Kamina]

I read the entire article from start to finish.

The author presents selective information and leaves out important information that the reader would need to form an educated opinion.

The article does not mention the fact that Sweet Baby employees tried to cancel the Steam curator just for creating the group. It does not mention that the CEO of Sweet Baby has a history of racist posts on Twitter. It does not mention that crazy video of the CEO where she calls for blackmailing companies to reach their goals.

Instead, the author mixes his personal opinions with the carefully selected information, presenting them as facts.

When important information is omitted and personal opinions are presented as facts, it will lead to the spread of misinformation.

This inconsistent and biased reporting will contribute to cynicism and distrust towards not just the media, but also the entire gaming industry.

People are not receiving the full picture.

Information is being manipulated.

What this author doesn't understand:

This trust erosion will eventually extend beyond individual stories or outlets to the media as a whole, undermining its role as a pillar of democracy.

Shame on these people.

And thats why they aren’t journalists but bad bloggers.

 

[RZero]

Gaming and the internet should have never gone mainstream.
When both were "owned" by weird kids and real hobbyists, things were much better.

As soon as normies "infiltrate" something niche and turn it mainstream, greedy souless corporations rise from the sewers to get that sweet normie money.
In the chase for profit, these corporations try to dilute and sanitize the core of that something, trying to appease to the lowest common denominator... and with today's sociopolitical climate on the West, they end up hiring these clown DEI companies like Sweet Baby Inc, to help them deliver the blandest and most inoffensive product as they could, to squeeze as much money from posers / bandwagoners / "flavor of the month" fans as they can before the fad is over.

 

[CGNoire]

Games outlets: we need DEI to represent all the diverse players - Trans, black, disabled, Latinx and women.

Games outlets: all gamers are white, racist males who just cry.

This so Fucking Much.

 

[makaveli60]

I agree they wouldn't do it if the races were swapped. That's all I've been trying to get at! Maybe I'm not getting point across well.

I just don't like double standards. There's no reverse racism just racism. You can be racist to white people despite what some on the far left believe.

So when I see admittedly out of context racism towards white people that wouldn't fly if the colours were swapped... to me that's racism!

No disrespect to anyone on here by the way. I know we can disagree its all good.

No problem mate, I think we are fully on the same page, I just wanted to highlight that this particular example is a bit more nuanced than how it seems. Anyway, let’s continue the revolt against the infestation. I’m so glad that people are finally waking up and not afraid to fight back against the evil insanity that is happening on many, many levels.

 

[CLW]

Honestly I couldn’t tell you a SINGLE “journalist” at ANY major gaming site now. They lost relevance LONG AGO how they remain employed mystifies me

 

[night13x]

These "gaming journalist" or rather people who moonlight as one and have absolutely no integrity in their lives. Here is my thoughts to you:

"off"

The direction you can fuck.

 

[lmimmfn]

Gaming "journalists" lol, the street sweepers of the 21st century.

 

[T-0800]

Probably 80% of the gaming journalists I have known are straight white men.

The other 20% used to be.

 

[elementalnocturne]

No problem mate, I think we are fully on the same page, I just wanted to highlight that this particular example is a bit more nuanced than how it seems. Anyway, let’s continue the revolt against the infestation. I’m so glad that people are finally waking up and not afraid to fight back against the evil insanity that is happening on many, many levels.

Thanks all! It’s good to disagree and talk through these issues.

It’s important to maintain a level of nuance and open mindedness. A willingness to consider new evidence that goes against your priors will ultimately strengthen your own arguments and you’ll be more persuasive to outsiders that don’t understand the situation.

This should be an easy W. The Kotaku journalist made herself into a laughing stock without anyone’s help. It’s because they haven’t shown that they are capable of nuance or being wrong. They shut down conversations and never even attempt to be persuasive.

 

[Needlecrash]

I miss the old school hardcore gaming journalists. In particular, Electronic Gaming Monthly, EGM. These were some of the most dedicated journalists out there. Dan Hsu and Sushi-X were stand outs for me.

 

[Yoda]

We might have gamer gate round 2 if this Streisand Effect reduces the amount of studios that hire them. Their friends in the "mainstream" press will meltdown (again).

 

[Red Crayon Aristocrat]

Sweet Baby is everything wrong with how games are written these days.

If you approach writing from the first and foremost from the perspective of social engineering, you will never produce great art, you also also will never succeed in bringing people together either, it always be inorganic and forced, creating gaps than bridging them.

It sucks and game development needs to drop this shit like a bad habit.

 

[Scotty W]

There are quite a few Japanese game characters that seem to be white.

But I don’t think I have ever seen any DIE people point out that the Japanese media avalanche, started a western obsession with Japanese culture.

The woke idea of representation is completely false.

 

[GeekGuyWithGlasses]

^^^ Fucking mind-bending bullshit like that is why lbgt acceptance in the states has been falling for the first time in forever.

These assholes do not give a fuck about helping anyone but themselves.

Thats just SJW people for ya, all talk but no fuck given for anyone but themselves

 

[GeekGuyWithGlasses]

To the videogame journos : She ain't gonna fuck you, bro.

I like to follow the old adagio of not putting your....genital part into crazy, but thats just me of course

 

[BigDeadFreak]

Remember when this is what gaming journalism used to look like:

 

[gaming_again]

Remember when this is what gaming journalism used to look like:

CVG was fire.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

Remember when this is what gaming journalism used to look like:

Streets of rage 2 and super shinobi 2? Legendary cover and legendary games right there.

 

[evanft]

No matter how much you hate gaming journalists, it's not enough.

 

[SidViscous]

getting pretty far into FF7 rebirth and Squareenix did a great job with Barrett and fleshing out his backstory. Great character, who just happens to be black and disabled.

So you can tick all these boxes, but not when you have zero talent and only care about the boxes. Which further proves companies like sweet baby are completely without merit when the best examples of these characters are all organic.

 

[Facism]

Loved cvg. Mean machines, too.

 

[SF Kosmo]

So, like, did anyone actually read any of these articles? It's easy to get mad at them for "running defense," but they have real information that shows how wrong a lot of community assumptions are. Like if they're just writing codex entries or NPC barks for a game, it's pretty messed up to be blaming them for the dialog or characters that were done before they ever got there... And it makes it clear that they are NOT a DEI consultancy, although they have done "sensitivity readings" for a few games.

It's fair to criticize them for their work, but it feels like people are just assuming that anything they don't like in any game they're involved with is "their work" without a shred of evidence.

 

[The Skull]

 

[Cyberpunkd]

CVG was fire.

I raise you one - this was the primary gaming mag in Poland in 1990s:

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

So, like, did anyone actually read any of these articles? It's easy to get mad at them for "running defense," evidence.

Jesus fucking christ.

They are defending a company that has publicly admitted HARASSMENT, mob tactics against developers. What else are we supposed to read?? That ends the argument for these "journalists". They are crazed propagandists, borderline criminals.

 

[Robb]

So, like, did anyone actually read any of these articles?

I, unfortunately, clicked on the Kotaku one so I read it since I’d already made the mistake. I just assume the rest are of the same caliber.

They (Kotaku) didn’t even mention why the curator group exploded in the first place and instead went on to say that the employees of SBI were the ones being harassed, when, in reality, an employee of the company started this whole ordeal by attempting to create a witch hunt against the creator of the curator. Not to mention all of the other vile things that have surfaced around the company and its employees.

It’s all one sided, which is the entire issue. Even if their involvement is 0.1% of a game, I would’t want to support a company whose employees encourage you to threaten/terrify your colleagues if they don’t agree with you just to get what you want into whatever project you’re working on.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Jesus fucking christ.

They are defending a company that has publicly admitted HARASSMENT, mob tactics against developers.

Sweet Baby harasses developers? That doesn't seem like a good way to get a lot of work, and it certainly makes it seem weird that all these devs would come out to talk about how valuable they have been in all these interviews.

I want you to weigh that reality against the possibility that you may have misunderstood a broadly worded quote taken out of context by an angry youtuber and tell me which reality seems more likely to you...

What else are we supposed to read?? That ends the argument for these "journalists". They are crazed propagandists, borderline criminals.

This seems like a super chill, normal thing to say.

They (Kotaku) didn’t even mention why the curator group exploded in the first place and instead went on to say that the employees of SBI were the ones being harassed, when, in reality, an employee of the company started this whole ordeal by attempting to create a witch hunt against the creator of the curator. Not to mention all of the other vile things that have surfaced around the company and its employees.

And yeah, that's fair. The SBI employee going after the curator was profoundly dumb and did add to this blowing up. That's an important part of the story.

But that's not what I'm talking about. I don't meant the opinions or perspectives here, I mean the actual concrete information that totally refutes the assumptions people have made about what SBI does and the impact they're having on these games. That's probably more important in the end.

I would’t want to support a company whose employees encourage you to threaten/terrify your colleagues if they don’t agree with you just to get what you want into whatever project you’re working on.

And again, this interpretations really beggars belief. It's hard for me to believe that someone who has thought about it for more than 3 seconds truly believes that is what's happening, rather than they've taken a single sentence out of context and interpreted it in the most insane way humanly possible.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

I want you to weigh that reality against the possibility that you may have misunderstood a broadly worded quote takes out of context by an angry youtuber and tell me which reality seems more likely to you...

They literally said TERRORIZE developers. I live in a country where there has been terrorism for decades, I don't need anyone to lecture me on what these words mean, because I have heard them countless times from terrorists and scumbags of the same type as Sweet Baby's employees.

This seems like a super chill normal thing to say.

This is the very least I can say about criminals. Harrassment is a crime in almost every civilized country in the world. Doxxing is also a crime. Kotaku's reporter has admittedly trying to doxx people so she's also a criminal offender.

 

[Robb]

And again, this interpretations really beggars belief.

When the first knee-jerk reaction from their employees was to ‘gather up the townsfolk and burn the witch at the stakes’, it seems obvious that this whole philosophy is deeply engraved within the company.

I don’t think it’s difficult to believe at all, personally.

 

[SF Kosmo]

They literally said TERRORIZE developers.

Check your transcript, my friend. That is not the word they used, is it?

I live in a country where there has been terrorism for decades, I don't need anyone to lecture me on what these words mean, because I have heard them countless times from terrorists and scumbags of the same type as Sweet Baby's employees.

These words?




Watch the full GDC talk here. I'm sure there's plenty you can disagree with or criticize in here, but can you watch this and tell me that this woman is at the fucking GDC, speaking to a room full of developers, trying to tell them that her company harasses developers?! It's absolutely batshit to interpret this that way, this can't be the thing you're staking your case on.

When the first knee-jerk reaction from their employees was to ‘gather up the townsfolk and burn the witch at the stakes’, it seems obvious that this whole philosophy is deeply engraved within the company.

I don’t think it’s difficult to believe at all, personally.

One low level employee asked people to report a guy on Steam, man, that is at best a case against that dude, and doesn't explain or justify they misinformation that got us here in the first place.

 

[Robb]

One low level employee asked people to report a guy on Steam, man, that is at best a case against that dude, and doesn't explain or justify they misinformation that got us here in the first place.

If you thinks so that’s perfectly fine. He did exactly what the higher ups at the company is supporting, so I don’t think it’s hard to believe. That’s all I’m saying.

 

[SF Kosmo]

If you thinks so that’s perfectly fine. He did exactly what the higher ups at the company is supporting, so I don’t think it’s hard to believe. That’s all I’m saying.

STOP, this is just a lie.

I posted the full clip above, you can watch it in context. Make note:

1) She very clearly goes on to explain that the concerns she wants them to be "terrified" of are "ethical and financial." She is not talking about or implying a harassment campaign, and there's no sane person who could watch that whole thing and think that.
2) She is not even talking to SBI employees, or about what SBI employees do. The context of the clip is her advice to a white dude asking to bring in an outside resource to mitigate content that he feels might be offensive, and how they should talk to management about that.

Like, let's have a conversation about this, but let's start with the truth. That clip isn't what Asmongold said it was, he's just a liar and assumes people are too lazy to check the tape.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Check...

I guess for you it's also a "misunderstanding" how they disrespected the memory of Akira Toriyama in the worst way possible. Also the racist quotes. "Misunderstandings", all of them. Only a lunatic would insult their potential customers as they do. That's the way cultists speak. They are a censoring company badly disguised as "consultants".

Opinions aside, let's discuss FACTS:

- What are their credentials? Why should developers or writers listen to them?

- How have they impacted games positively? Positively = more sales, better liked by gamers (ACTUAL customers)

- Are those games well or poorly written?


At the end of the day, even if their intentions were legit (which they are not), they don't bring anything of value to the final product.

 

[nush]

but let's start with the truth.

You will twist yourself into a pretzel to defend this. How do you like that truth?

 

[SF Kosmo]

I guess for you it's also a "misunderstanding" how they disrespected the memory of Akira Toriyama in the worst way possible.

I have no issue with you or anyone criticizing real things they actually said or did. I don't have a problem with the Steam curator either, or spending your money on whatever you want.

My problem is the stuff that isn't true, and I don't know why it's so hard for you to admit "Oops, I was wrong, they didn't ask their employees to harass devs on stage at GDC."

Opinions aside, let's discuss FACTS:

- What are their credentials? Why should developers or writers listen to them?

"Listen to them" already seems to misunderstand most of what they do. Which is largely writing a lot of the minor text in a game that devs don't have the bandwidth for.

Like yes, they do offer "Sensitivity readings" for devs who are concerned about cultural accuracy or worried about offending part of the audience, but like 90% of what they do is going through a game writing codex entries and NPC barks and all those hundreds of pages of lore or color text in a game that you probably don't even read.

- How have they impacted games positively? Positively = more sales, better liked by gamers (ACTUAL customers)

Their benefit is largely financial. If you only need these resources in the last six months of a game's cycle, for example, you don't want to hire in-house people to do it and then have to lay them off afterwards. It's better for everyone if these resources belong to a contracting firm.

- Are those games well or poorly written?

We have to ask what part of the game they worked on before we actually ask that question though, right?

Like I keep seeing them blamed for the writing in Spider-Man 2 and Suicide Squad, but they didn't do any writing at all in SM2 and in Suicide Squad they only did NPC barks and audio logs.

You will twist yourself into a pretzel to defend this. How do you like that truth?

Just tell me what I'm saying that's incorrect, please.

I have no real interest in defending their work, I'm just talking about what is and isn't their work.

 

[nush]

Just tell me what I'm saying that's incorrect, please.

Just about everything you are twisting using gaming journalists talking points. Every time these topics come up. I am fully aware of you, eventually you lose your shit and get banned. This is the path you chose.

 

[SF Kosmo]

Just about everything you are twisting using gaming journalists talking points.

I'm not even taking a stand on anything opinion based. I'm just pointing out some factual errors people have made. What was I wrong about?

 

[nush]

I'm not even taking a stand on anything opinion based. I'm just pointing out some factual errors people have made. What was I wrong about?

Passing off your gasslighting as " Facts".

 

[SF Kosmo]

Passing off your gasslighting as " Facts".

For example? Let's talk about it. Educate me.

 

[tkscz]

It’s 10 years since Gamergate – the industry must now stand up to far-right trolls

Conspiracy theorists are still routinely targeting and abusing women and ‘woke’ game consultants. With a small studio currently under fire, the games industry’s silence is deafening

www.theguardian.com

Another hit piece, This time from gurdian

And you guessed it right, another confused they/them bi/polar person

And like all the rest, they have the mention GamerGate. That's the last time these "journalist" felt relevant so of course they are trying to make a GamerGate 2 electric victim-loo. Don't know how many people here have noticed but these gaming news/ gaming sections of news sites have been dying. No one was reading their bullshit anymore and advertisers were leaving their sites so they were running out of money. Most of these "journalist" were laid-off and now they are grasping at straws as they usually do. So be prepared to see articles like it was 2014.

 

[violence]

I’m so glad there’s pushback to this stuff. The crazy cat ladies of California are trying to become the new Vatican or something. I don’t know how they managed to accomplish so much as it is.

 

[simpatico]

The names of the writers tho...