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Women And Sexuality In Gaming (Kotaku/Dragon's Crown Thoughts And More)
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
- Start date
10101
Gold Member
There are you need to look harder.
If they do not enjoy the plenty of things that are non sexualised? And do not like the things which are sexualised? What do these people like? By that rationale everything should be kept non-sexual to cater to the few even though sex sells, the majority like it and most don't care either way. Ok.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaze#The_.22male_gaze.22_in_feminist_theory
Yeah, we might be getting a little advanced here, but you're exactly right.
So you want women to feel ashamed of their bodies. Are nudists also sexualizing themselves because they are naked. Clothes are partly culture constructs and partly for protection for elements. Should women in parts of the world who don't wear top be ashamed of having their breasts hang out? I'll ask again what is wrong with the naked body?
Baller. PhD
Banned
How is that any different than "speak with your wallet?" If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. But a shitload of people do like it. Which is why the companies make it. Because people buy it. Make sense yet?
It's not like having access to video games that portray your gender in a manner that you appreciate it a Constitutionally-protected right.
As an anecdotal example, I once tried to get my wife to play WoW with me back in 2009 or so. She made a female character and and I started helping her through the lowbie zone. After she got her first armor upgrade she took it off and went back to the starter gear (skin-tight hot pants and a sports bra, I believe) because it was "cuter." She didn't want to be a heavily armored tank, she wanted to be a sleek and sexy woman.
Maybe a die hard feminist would see it differently. In that case? Find a new game, yes.
Is there any reason why she should be naked? She's an AI, why would she portray herself as a naked blue woman when she is surrounded by people in a military setting?
SonicBoomX
Banned
You're confusing upping her sex appeal with just the fact that graphics have improved with every Halo game, meaning her design looks more realistic with each game. Did you want the Halo 4 Cortana model to have blocky tits?
spandexmonkey
Banned
She is nude in all of those, she just becomes more realistic as it goes on. Again, do women not have curves? Do women not have breasts?ting
Again. So what? I guess fuck all those artists who made painting of naked women those animals. Why not show her naked? Why is that bad? Her character is more then just a sex toy.
SaggyMonkey
Member
Objections as a case for "that kind of media shouldn't be made?" No. I think that's overreaching.
Objections just meaning "hey I don't like that, so I won't play it." Sure, whatever floats their boats.
I feel like I'm being trolled, but I guess I'll address this anyways. No, of course women shouldn't feel ashamed of their bodies, but that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. We do not (and I don't know where you live, so maybe you are accessing the internet in a mud hut somewhere with women walking around with their exposed breasts) live in a culture where people walk around naked. Therefore, showing a woman with partially exposed breasts in a "soldier's outfit" or something else makes no sense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9265kOhVlM
SonicBoomX
Banned
That's her chosen physical form. It's not like they're depicting her nipples, vagina, and butt crack. Dr. Manhattan's chosen physical form is the perfectly sculpted male body, and he's nude the entire time, but nobody questions that.
Deified Data
Banned
I've always been of the belief that someone can be sexualized without being objectified. It's not incredibly difficult to pull off. I'm really not sure why the industry at large is having such difficulty with the concept.
1) If that is your stance, then please let the ills of the world continue because they make money. People shouldn't better themselves right, lets all be terrible people. I am making fun of you , you make me fear for humanity.
2) Your wife is the entirety of women in video games, apparently
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Someone is going to tell you that's because its a male power fantasy.
Some do, some don't. Door swings both ways.
*nods* yup.
ChosenPredator
Banned
I've noticed in the game secondlife that some of the girls who play it have gigantic tits
Then nothing is safe.
Mauricio_Magus
Banned
Female BOOB fantasy
I'm just pointing out that it is unneeded and done to pander to straight males rather than as a result of her personality. It would make more sense within the context of Halo if she was created to titillate in the game. I don't know enough about Dr. Manhattan to compare the two.
I'm sorry to have to tell you like this, but Cortana isn't real. She's just a videogame character. Her being naked is the game designer's chosen form for her.
Gigantic tits might be one of the more mellow things in that game.
denshuu
Member
The article itself says no. Did you stop reading right there?
Baller. PhD
Banned
So what are you advocating then, fascism? That discussion is probably better suited for a different thread. In our current system we have regulated markets (at least here in the United States), so companies produce what consumers want to buy. Whether that is "right" or not is irrelevant. It is what it is. That's all I'm trying to say here -- there's no real debate to be had. This is the world we live in, and for it to be different you'd either have to:
A.) Require game companies to portray characters in a certain way (censorship)
B.) Re-engineer the male brain to not prefer scantly-clad females over properly-dressed females (good luck with that)
That's just how it is.
Quote:
And? Is here character there just to be a sexy or does she have a role in the story? Why does it matter how she dresses? I have seen women on the street that have had there breasts hanging out. Guessing I should yell at them. It's fiction, and it's about goddamn zombies are social cues to apply in those worlds.
SonicBoomX
Banned
Did you read past the first sentence in that post? Who do you think I was referring to when I said "they're" in my second sentence? How about next time you respond to the post and its argument as a whole, rather than taking things out of context for a cheap and useless condescending remark.
AlimNassor
Banned
Why is her ass so big? Seriously. I just noticed it sticks out pretty far.
oooff. they don't make games for the evolution on mankind, you know
find another hobby and choose with your wallet are a bit different anyway but i don't know if women have the numbers to make their choice relevant
Baller. PhD
Banned
How am I wrong?
Bayonetta
The whole game is unneeded. Creating david statue naked was unneeded too.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't really feel compelled to vehemently defend Alan Moore's and Dave Gibbon's choice to portray Dr. Manhattan as nude, but -- and mind you, I'm not well acquainted with the Halo novels -- it is worth noting two things:
1.) There is a clear reason for Dr. Manhattan's nudity. And that is that it is an outward manifestation of his disconnect from humanity. This is shown through the gradual process of wearing less and less clothing. As he becomes less involved with interpersonal relationships and less empathetic to the world around him, this serves as a visual example of him losing his humanity. Now, is his nudity the only way to convey that? Of course not. I suppose one could make that case, and that's fair.
2.) Perhaps some will disagree, but I don't think that the character is meant to titillate in the least. That's not to say that nobody out there has gotten turned on reading Watchmen or sought out Dr. Manhattan fan art, but I highly doubt that "Let's put something out there for the ladies!" ever entered into their minds when creating the character.
Now, maybe this all applies to Halo as well. I've heard some of the Cortana backstory to know why she's a female character, but nothing really specifically related to her attire. Further -- and perhaps I'm just being overly cynical about the craft of game's writing -- I'm very skeptical that this was a choice of artistic integrity in as much as it was a "let's throw a hot chick in there," but again, maybe I'm not giving the Halo writers enough credit.
Of course, I think this post may be counterproductive, as I'm not all that invested in criticizing Cortana. Writing a lengthy counterpoint probably undermines that sentiment, but really, I"m just here because I think the comparison to Dr. Manhattan is ultimately very lazy.
Dr. Manhattan isn't sexualized by the narrative in any way. We're supposed to find his chosen physical form slightly offputting, not sexy.
And going by the reactions to the movie, A LOT of people had issues with him being naked and could not get over it.
Eh, you mean the writer's chosen physical form for her. She's still pretty much naked relative to other AI in the universe, and there's not much reason why she is.
Dark Octave
Banned
Then what you're saying is that there is no problem, because if all these characters were is sexy, then we'd be playing wildly different types of games from the type we play today. They are more than just sexy. Consider that most games are action games. That means that most game characters are warriors no matter if they use guns, swords or their fists.
But even if they have that other element, it's usually cut short there. I don't see Kratos reciting Shakepeare while he volunteers in a soup kitchen. Most characters are two dementional. They are attractive and warriors. Show me a game where the characters are more than that and I'll show you a game that's worthy of discussing it's characters.
Does Dragon's Crown warrant deep characters that go further than their looks and fighting ability? Does DoA or any fighting game? Faith from Mirro's Edge wan't sexualized at all but was she any deeper than any character from Mortal Kombat?
Mr_Antimatter
Member
Artistic nudity is done for a reason, Cortana was nude so they could sell her as a sex symbol to fans. Hence their upping her sex appeal in every additional game.
Schobeleth
Member
Thanks for labeling us as mental 12 year olds, just because you don't like an art style doesn't mean everyone else doesn't have to like it. I also don't understand this whole "these sexualized female characters are so pervasive" argument. I guess you naysayers would be happier with nothing shown, or at least nothing "sexualized", which could be interpreted as anything:
I'm not saying objectification is ok, I'm just saying that she's not purely eye candy. She kicks butt too and is a valuable member of the party in the game. So what's the problem? If it was a game purely about oogling women, then I could see a problem with it.
If you're aware that Cortana isn't real, then you should be aware that she is incapable of choosing a physical form. She's naked because the developers wanted her naked.
In the Halo universe the AI's choose their physical forms. The question is one of motivation for why her character would choose that specific form. Obviously a developer created the assets.
Refreshment.01
Member
Is Kotaku finally going to sue Disney for the whole Roger Rabbit scandal?
Don't be deliberately obtuse. Characters have backstory and history within the lore of their fiction. They have effectively made and will make "choices", just as you have chosen how to interpret the developer's intent.
Infinite_Daremo
Member
Getting tired that all the attention this game gets is about a pair of tits.
Motivation doesn't matter, either. You can get character motivation in every porno ever made. What matters is what serves the product. How does Cortana's nudity serve the product?
The choices are unimportant. You should be asking why the developers made the character make these choices. A picture of a naked woman can be a still from a porno or a painting celebrating the human form.
According to you. I can just as easily say that the artistic nudity was there to get more buyer and interest in the art work.
The "choice" often reveals the developer's intent, which is also why it's important.
There are several posts above on why Dr. Manhattan is naked. His character made the choice of being naked in the story and has reasons for doing so. I think that's important.