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[Buggy Loop]

I was referring more to the "outrage", I'm not sure where these people were at when Plague Tale Requiem released without FSR.

I mean it goes both ways.

Nvidia's stance is that they allow any competing upscaling tech in, and there's at least some titles that hold that claim

So anyone can go and ask the dev. If they have their reason, fine, otherwise, if its contractual, then fucking raise hell.

Peoples probably forget FSR because yea.. i think i would prefer running native? RTX cards are now majority too? The biggest market share for FSR are the remaining GTX owners, not even AMD's series. Those GTX 1650 cards include a buttload crap of laptops, i'm not even sure that these games is their market anymore, the cards would have atrocious performances and FSR for anything under 4K is a big yikes. So that leaves a very small userbase.

 

[FingerBang]

Yea

So far the negativity around this deal is pissing off so many peoples that its negative marketing. Like there's no reward from holding that stance.
There's not many scenarios out of this

• Keep DLSS/XeSS out and FSR still sucks, bad press
• Include DLSS/XeSS while still maintaining "no comments" response, better response when it is inevitably known, but in the meantime, it brews negativity for no reasons.
• Somehow AMD manages an FSR version that doesn't suck and competes with DLSS, and they also include their frame gen, which somehow also doesn't suck, by game's release. Shock & awe (doubtful)

FSR can be improved, but I doubt it will ever work as well as DLSS without dedicated hardware. It works well if you use quality at 4K but worsens when you lower the internal resolution.

The best thing they can do is offer DLSS now as an alternative and also make something RDNA-specific that competes with Nvidia for their next-generation cards like Intel did.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Nvidia's stance is that they allow any competing upscaling tech in, and there's at least some titles that hold that claim

There are some AMD sponsored titles that support DLSS as well.

And this stuff is almost never talked about pre-release anyway. An almost perfect example of much ado about nothing.

 

[Topher]

There are some AMD sponsored titles that support DLSS as well.

And this stuff is almost never talked about pre-release anyway. An almost perfect example of much ado about nothing.

If that is the case then there is nothing keeping either AMD or Bethesda from jumping on twitter and saying the game will have DLSS and this is "much ado about nothing". Instead we've got AMD dodging questions about paying to exclude DLSS from games and jack shit from Microsoft or Bethesda. Obviously they don't want to talk about it and that in itself is fueling this continued discussion.

 

[DaGwaphics]

If that is the case then there is nothing keeping either AMD or Bethesda from jumping on twitter and saying the game will have DLSS and this is "much ado about nothing". Instead we've got AMD dodging questions about paying to exclude DLSS from games and jack shit from Microsoft or Bethesda. Obviously they don't want to talk about it and that in itself is generating this continued discussion.

Think about what you are actually saying though. Let's say that the game does fully support DLSS, ok. Why does AMD want to make that a marketing point on the title they have a partnership on? The game will be played by everyone that wants to play it regardless of the gpu they have. There is no benefit to AMD to appease Nvidia GPU owners at this point. They would benefit more by holding onto the possibility that the game will run better on AMD until launch, as that might sell a few GPUs for them.

 

[Buggy Loop]

There are some AMD sponsored titles that support DLSS as well.

Sony titles mainly?

Because they're big boys

 

[Topher]

Think about what you are actually saying though. Let's say that the game does fully support DLSS, ok. Why does AMD want to make that a marketing point on the title they have a partnership on? The game will be played by everyone that wants to play it regardless of the gpu they have. There is no benefit to AMD to appease Nvidia GPU owners at this point. They would benefit more by holding onto the possibility that the game will run better on AMD until launch, as that might sell a few GPUs for them.

Nvidia had no issue stating flatly they don't pay to exclude other technologies. AMD can do the same, but they won't.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Nvidia had no issue stating flatly they don't pay to exclude other technologies. AMD can do the same, but they won't.

Likely the difference between being the unstoppable juggernaut and a fading small player (by market %). AMD has to work harder for ever sale, that's going to change things a bit. Especially with Intel breathing down AMD's neck.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

“oh shit, it’s trivially easy for devs to support both our tech and our competitor’s, and it makes us look bad in comparison! How do we compete??”

“I know, let’s pay devs not to support our competitor, and dodge the question whenever someone asks if that’s what we did. What could go wrong?”

 

[Topher]

Likely the difference between being the unstoppable juggernaut and a fading small player (by market %). AMD has to work harder for ever sale, that's going to change things a bit.

Except this negative PR is not doing them any favors. Somehow they are allowing Nvidia to make themselves out to be the good guy. That's hard to do.

 

[Leonidas]

In before ToTTenTranz damage control

 

[DaGwaphics]

Except this negative PR is not doing them any favors. Somehow they are allowing Nvidia to make themselves out to be the good guy. That's hard to do.

Marketing this game should be a huge net positive for them, especially if they bundle it. The real momentum for the game in the general market will be thousands of times larger than the dust up about the up-scaling features.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Fuck amd and their anti consumer bullshit. They only make these arrangements because fsr looks like such dog shit that if people have the option to use dlss instead they will 100 percent of the time. Hope nividia fights this shit

 

[Buggy Loop]

Marketing this game should be a huge net positive for them, especially if they bundle it. The real momentum for the game in the general market will be thousands of times larger than the dust up about the up-scaling features.

Bundle it with an architecture that is not selling?

Who would splurge hundreds to upgrade for a game bundle.

Except this negative PR is not doing them any favors. Somehow they are allowing Nvidia to make themselves out to be the good guy. That's hard to do.

AMD is AMD's worst enemy, been like that for a long time.

 

[StereoVsn]

Nvidia had no issue stating flatly they don't pay to exclude other technologies. AMD can do the same, but they won't.

Also, what I don't get is that it's not like MS needs AMD cash and it's not like AMD wouldn't provide support for Starfield for their tech. Why the f are we having this exclusivity?

 

[StereoVsn]

Except this negative PR is not doing them any favors. Somehow they are allowing Nvidia to make themselves out to be the good guy. That's hard to do.

Yep, and that's right now when there is so much negative Nvidia sentiment for their pricing and VRAM/bandwidth shenanigans.

 

[thuGG_pl]

No way the game dev decides. It's the greedy suits at publishing who decide these things.

I meant someone from Bethesda in general.

 

[GymWolf]

Their chorus of "no comments" couldn't be louder in confirming that DLSS isn't in the game. Hopefully the backlash will cause them to "rethink this" as Richard said in the DF video.

What backlash? The game is still gonna sell gangbuster anyway, there is no stopping this badly upscaled train...

 

[StereoVsn]

I meant someone from Bethesda in general.

Unless Todd Howard is an idiot (he is not), he wouldn't jump for FSR exclusive contract (I could be wrong if course, but just don't think it's likely). So got to be either Zenimax or MS.

The whole thing is just weird and makes 0 sense unless they had so many issues on console side so had to get AMD help which brought with it PC side contract.

 

[SolidQ]

I'd better wait for official announcement. We don't know FSR version, maybe when AMD introduce 7700XT\7800XT, there will be new version FSR + FSR3.
If there will be like FSR 2.0, then you can rage on forums/reddit.

 

[Topher]

Also, what I don't get is that it's not like MS needs AMD cash and it's not like AMD wouldn't provide support for Starfield for their tech. Why the f are we having this exclusivity?

The Bethesda side of all this is certainly perplexing. You'd think they would want to avoid any/all controversy after the whole Redfall debacle.

What backlash? The game is still gonna sell gangbuster anyway, there is no stopping this badly upscaled train...

I'm talking about the backlash from Digital Foundry and other influential YouTubers posted in this thread. Yeah....no doubt it is going to sell shitloads but that fact ain't stopping folks from looking at this whole thing sideways.

 

[poppabk]

Nvidia had no issue stating flatly they don't pay to exclude other technologies. AMD can do the same, but they won't.

I posted above when Nvidia stated flatly about how the GeForce Partner Program. They used almost the same language to describe how magnanimousthey were, only for the program to be quietly cancelled amid rumors that it was being investigated by the FTC and Europe as anti-competitive.

 

[GymWolf]

The Bethesda side of all this is certainly perplexing. You'd think they would want to avoid any/all controversy after the whole Redfall debacle.



I'm talking about the backlash from Digital Foundry and other influential YouTubers posted in this thread. Yeah....no doubt it is going to sell shitloads but that fact ain't stopping folks from looking at this whole thing sideways.

After all this time and bethesda being a laughing stock of the game community when it comes to their optimization you think todd gives a flying fuck about what df and other youtubers think?

So naive you are, my young padowan.

 

[DaGwaphics]

Bundle it with an architecture that is not selling?

Who would splurge hundreds to upgrade for a game bundle.



AMD is AMD's worst enemy, been like that for a long time.

There are people buying new GPUs (even if a lot less than before, haha). This GPU costs $X and this one costs $X with a free code for Starfield. There is value in it.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Nvidia for life bay bay. Fuck amd.

 

[Buggy Loop]

There are people buying new GPUs (even if a lot less than before, haha). This GPU costs $X and this one costs $X with a free code for Starfield. There is value in it.

The bundle is for CPU only as far as i'm aware.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I posted above when Nvidia stated flatly about how the GeForce Partner Program. They used almost the same language to describe how magnanimousthey were, only for the program to be quietly cancelled amid rumors that it was being investigated by the FTC and Europe as anti-competitive.

Doesn't really matter what Nvidia says. The data speaks for itself

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

There are people buying new GPUs (even if a lot less than before, haha). This GPU costs $X and this one costs $X with a free code for Starfield. There is value in it.

No one gives a fuck about a free game worth £50 with the price of GPUs

 

[Topher]

After all this time and bethesda being a laughing stock of the game community when it comes to their optimization you think todd gives a flying fuck about what df and other youtubers think?

So naive you are, my young padowan.

You mean the same Todd who flatly said "everyone watches every Digital Foundry video".

 

[GymWolf]

You mean the same Todd who flatly said "everyone watches every Digital Foundry video".

That's pr talk.

The dude accepted long time ago the meme status, no other brand is happy to get their games fixed by modders, we joke about it on gaf but if you stop for a moment thinking about it, it's not funny at all.

Believe me, the dude has the face like his ass, to use an italian short saying, he has no shame whatsoever.

 

[Topher]

That's pr talk.

The dude accepted long time ago the meme status, no other brand is happy to get their games fixed by modders, we joke about it on gaf but if you stop for a moment thinking about it, it's not funny at all.

Believe me, the dude has the face like his ass, to use an italian short saying, he has no shame whatsoever.

Damn son.......just rob me of any/all hope why don't you?

 

[GymWolf]

Damn son.......just rob me of any/all hope why don't you?

Lol sorry, i'm sure starfield is gonna have dlss and framegen.

when modders are gonna put them in.

 

[GHG]

There are people buying new GPUs (even if a lot less than before, haha). This GPU costs $X and this one costs $X with a free code for Starfield. There is value in it.

Not when you're stuck with no choice but to use inferior upscaling tech there isn't.

 

[Zoloft]

AMD and EGS are really cancer for pc gaming. GTFO.

Yeah, fuck them and fuck all games sponsored by AMD, at least Nvidia is innovating somehow.
AMD GPU pricing is worse than Nvidia if you take into consideration all features provided by each company.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Marketing this game should be a huge net positive for them, especially if they bundle it. The real momentum for the game in the general market will be thousands of times larger than the dust up about the up-scaling features.

How do you think this will even benefit them? Seems like a significant chunk of their GPU sales come from PC gamers buying out of principle because they see AMD as the good guys. Now they’re getting slammed across all the biggest gaming channels and communities.

Bundling & cross promotion? Sure that might help their sales. Straight up paying devs to omit Nvidia features (and getting caught and giving embarrassing non-answers when confronted about it)? Seems like that is going to backfire big time.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they back down on the exclusivity agreement after all the negative press they’re getting.

 

[BearNecessity]

I mean it goes both ways.

Nvidia's stance is that they allow any competing upscaling tech in, and there's at least some titles that hold that claim

Nvidias stance is that DLSS is nvidia hardware exclusive. AMD's stance is forcing parity.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Yeah, fuck them and fuck all games sponsored by AMD, at least Nvidia is innovating somehow.
AMD GPU pricing is worse than Nvidia if you take into consideration all features provided by each company.

Nvidia: create some new tech, make deals to provide devs money and support to implement it

AMD: create some competing tech that’s not as good, pay devs not to support Nvidia’s

 

[Warnen]

With all the flack Nvidia has been getting, how the fuck did amd fuck this fuck…


Hope Nvidia continues to stomp you into the ground.

 

[poppabk]

Seems like a significant chunk of their GPU sales come from PC gamers buying out of principle because they see AMD as the good guys.

What? I bought a 6900XT because it was under $600 last year when a 3070 was $750 and the 8GB vram was already becoming an issue. I really don't get the fanboy shit, especially with PC, it's like people want to remove the biggest advantage of an open platform - choice.

 

[Corndog]

How about you watch the video then?

They go through that list and explain why it doesn't apply to their conclusion.

No point

 

[GHG]

What? I bought a 6900XT because it was under $600 last year when a 3070 was $750 and the 8GB vram was already becoming an issue. I really don't get the fanboy shit, especially with PC, it's like people want to remove the biggest advantage of an open platform - choice.

Indeed... Just like AMD are here.

No point

Why enter the thread if you just want to stick your fingers in your ears and pretend this isn't happening?

 

[GreatnessRD]

Can modders save us?

They always do.

But I think AMD is going to call an audible and DLSS will magically appear.

 

[RoboFu]

I never believe anything out of YouTubers mouth… ever..

 

[Unknown Soldier]

“oh shit, it’s trivially easy for devs to support both our tech and our competitor’s, and it makes us look bad in comparison! How do we compete??”

“I know, let’s pay devs not to support our competitor, and dodge the question whenever someone asks if that’s what we did. What could go wrong?”

Don't forget these are the guys pretending to be the plucky underdogs, kinda runs that whole The Resistance underdog image when you pull shit like this.

Nvidia are supposed to be the Evil Empire and they are on the record as saying they do not block competitor upscaling solutions. They even implemented an open source tool to make it easy for devs to support all 3 current technologies.

 

[mckmas8808]

Also, Jesus Christ, I thought the console war was pathetic but this another level of petty.

This is 60x dumber than console wars. I have no idea how this can keep going on. It's going to slowly ruin the PC gaming space.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I never believe anything out of YouTubers mouth… ever..

I think AMD’s and Nvidia’s responses speak for themselves.

 

[Kataploom]

There are some AMD sponsored titles that support DLSS as well.

And this stuff is almost never talked about pre-release anyway. An almost perfect example of much ado about nothing.

This is why I don't get the "outrage". AMD isn't keeping Nvidia tech to be implemented in games more than Nvidia is doing the same for AMD. Examples are plenty already after FSR came out... Another fake outrage as usual on internet.

 

[Kataploom]

If that is the case then there is nothing keeping either AMD or Bethesda from jumping on twitter and saying the game will have DLSS and this is "much ado about nothing". Instead we've got AMD dodging questions about paying to exclude DLSS from games and jack shit from Microsoft or Bethesda. Obviously they don't want to talk about it and that in itself is fueling this continued discussion.

Probably because they haven't decided yet? A minimal thing a single person with all free time in the world to mod games (because if they were actually busy they wouldn't) will be a full requirement that needs to be approved, put into a ticket, discussed, assigned, develop, passed to QA testing, wait for the testing to be done, iterate if necessary, etc, etc. until approved.

Those are not things a single isolated dev, nor even lead programmer can decide on their own and say "oh, yes, it will have feature "X", it's easy, we'll just do it quickly" because they 100% have many other stuff in the pipeline and they wouldn't even think on adding those stuff until the most important ones are sorted out.

That's why someone said, on Twitter I think, that if they have to implement a scaling tech, it must be FSR since it works on everything and then wait for upper staff to decide if DLSS is implemented too since it only work on RTX cards.

AAA Game development seems to be a constantly constraint environment, things in big companies don't work nearly the same as they do in small/medium or solo dev environment AT ALL. I know because I do lots of solo development without any team bottleneck and also work for a big tech as a programmer.

 

[poppabk]

Indeed... Just like AMD are here.

Just like AMD might be doing here and Nvidia might be doing here.

 

[GloveSlap]

This might be a stupid question, but is it impossible for Nvidia to ever make dlss a universal hardware-side option in the Nvidia control panel?