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Ampere Estimatez: PS5 sold 21 million, Xbox Series sold 13.8 million.

clampzyn

Member
The GDK is not magical. You can take a lead platform and port to the others or design for scaleability and the best way is to stay as close as your minimum common denominator and give you levers and knobs to twist when you scale up.
On mobiles you have the mother of scaleable SDK’s and it does not make this easy.

Who said it was magical? It was said to be made for ease of use for the devs to port their games on PC/Consoles. It's always up to the devs to make an effort.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
How do you expect XSX is fully maxed out thanks to the XSS?

What cutbacks do you expect in PS5 titles because of PS4? That is not an argument that soften the cost of multiple HW support, it is a “well they succeeded despite vs because” argument at best.

Its not a trick question, im curious to what you think, because I have thought about it myself.

I think the PS4 would require a whole seperate way of doing things if the developers were using primitive shaders, PS4's CPU would probably not able to do nanite or lumen at an acceptable level, asset streaming would be reduced considerbly on PS4 due to the lack of an SDD. Objects, geometry and effects would need to be scaled back for PS4 and so would resolution and framerate. So the PS4 would be practically a different game.

The XSS would only need reduced resolution/fps and a possible reduction in effects.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Higher clocks, more heat. Did you want the PS4 to sound even worse than it did?
Well they did it with the PS5, its a loud big boy. Unless you luck out with a quiet fan, but the heat sink and fan are pretty small in PS4.
 

clampzyn

Member
The XSS would only need reduced resolution/fps and a possible reduction in effects.
Right, that's why devs should start making their game scalable both in graphic settings and resolution for consoles. Look at saints row, it has 1080/1440p/4k modes. I wouldn't be surprised at all if games later on also have this options available.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Who said it was magical? It was said to be made for ease of use for the devs to port their games on PC/Consoles. It's always up to the devs to make an effort.
The biggest effort is still on the developer’s side whether or not the SDK aids or prevents you from doing so (in some cases you prefer a well documented hardware with lower level access than an SDK that makes you constantly guess what the effective performance will be on any given HW and how to change it, just to make an example).
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Well they did it with the PS5, its a loud big boy. Unless you luck out with a quiet fan, but the heat sink and fan are pretty small in PS4.
Oh come on, you cannot compare PS4/PS4 Pro to PS5. Coil whine is a completely different problem than the heat dissipation issue and fan noise was on PS4… it feels like coil whine was invented for console discussion and never happened on PC’s ;).
 

jaysius

Member
The sales your favourite plastic box has doesn’t diminish OR boost it’s quality. Especially with so many games going cross play, it really doesn’t matter.

The only people this actually matters to are investors.
 

Loxus

Member
Aren't most games being developed for PC anyway?
You think high, medium and low presets just magically appear in the settings without developer input? That's all extra work compared to just making one preset.

This topic is about developers having to do extra.
 

DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
It is cheap and small, I am not saying it is a piece of trash, but Xbox gamers would have been better served if the minimum specs for Xbox exclusives were higher (it would help raise the minimum specs target for more and more PC games): a digital only XSX with only 0.5 TB storage would be able to hit $399. More expensive than the current XSS but still much cheaper than the full XSX.

The less HW specs variety the more devs can optimise their games and push the HW more and the cross generation split can be reduced. Min specs do matter.
A $400 XSX missing the drive and half the storage would have still been harder to make and would not achieve the goal of a casual kid friendly console. It would have also been far more expensive for MS to manufacture. The normal XSX exists for gamers looking for more performance.

The only consumers that would have benefited from a stripped down XSX would be hard core gamers but that wasn't the audience MS was looking to attract especially if they wanted to get more subscribers to Game pass.

The XSS has done exactly what MS wanted and after the issues with production across the globe MS made the right decision. The XSS is regularly available and is approaching a mass market impulse purchase price. It also makes a good secondary system for people who don't want to pay for both a PS5 AND an XSX.

Min specs do matter and it's good that MS didn't skimp out on the CPU or put a mechanical hard drive in the XSS. Developers have yet to take full advantage of the hardware features of the XSX|S and if/when they do they'll have even better results. Shouldn't complain about specs if you haven't used the features available to mitigate development issues.
 

Leyasu

Banned
So this thread has gone from cheering the numbers, to reallising that they are estimates and a bit shaky, to XsS and PS5 console noise.. lol

I even reactivated my ERA account after letting lay dormant for two years to escape the console warring. But I keep coming back here. It's addictive. Watching thread after thread derailed and turned to shit is like a drug. I even come here first for my hit before going to ERA.

chris rock adult humor GIF
 
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Loxus

Member
At the end of the day the number of calculations per second will be the most beneficial aspect. Because when you break it down thats what matters the most, its all just 0's and 1's at the end of the day.

But I will only listen to direct specific quotes from developers with experience, on how much a higher clock rate effects performance.
Because until its just people choosing the answer which they want to be correct.

My opinion on the subject regarding clocks is that I dont know, and neither does anyone else unless they have hands on experience with the hardware.

I know in the PC space clockspeed does not seem to effect performance beyond what the tflop number suggests so....🤷

Im sure there are better examples but the 5700 and 5700xt used here use the same memory amount, bandwidth and overall architecture.

That's not how Cerny described it.
It's not same CU count with different TF and clocks.
It's same TF with different CU count and clocks.
 

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
If MS was selling a crappy console like you suggest for the past 9 years then it makes it really hard to set up the stage for it's successor to be successful.

You can't show up mid-gen, when everything has already been established as if nothing that happened before mattered. That is a terrible plan.


The wii and PS4 say hello.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Im sure there are better examples but the 5700 and 5700xt used here use the same memory amount, bandwidth and overall architecture.

The test does not show the actual clockspeeds though. He simply says he overclocked it but we know the 5700 does not really hit clockspeeds that high. Even the 5700xt wont hit clockspeeds that high at all times.

There are tests that people should be doing by capping the high CU card's clocks and ensuring the lower CU card actually hits its OC clocks.

The 6600xt and 6700xt would be ideal candidates imo. 32 CUs vs 40 CUs. 10.6 tflops vs 13.1 tflops. You underclock the 6700xt to 1.825 ghz (9.3 tflops) and do the same for the 6600xt and we are looking at a comparison pretty close to what Cerny was talking about.

I have not been able to make sense of the xsx not performing like a 12 tflops card in 'some' games. It could be a bottleneck due to the split ram or it could be the fact that this RDNA 2.0 card designed around higher clockspeeds approaching 2.6 ghz is capped at 1.825 ghz. Sadly there is no AMD card that sits between 40 and 60 CUs so this is our best comparison.

One thing I will point out is the 911 mhz Pro and 1172 mhz X1x. The CU counts were 36 vs 40 (11%) but the 28% better clocks really made it shine in some games. RDR2 being native 4k vs literally halved on the Pro was not an aberration. there were several native 4k games on the x1x and you have to wonder if Cerny looked at those results and realized that higher clocks do indeed offer better performance. Another example would be the huge performance gap between Nvidia's 10 series Pascal cards and AMD's vega cards. Vega cards were capped at 1400-1500 z while the pascal cards could go all the way up to 1.8-2.0 ghz. AMD couldnt compete with them until RDNA started hitting those clocks.
 

Topher

Gold Member
So this thread has gone from cheering the numbers, to reallising that they are estimates and a bit shaky, to XsS and console noise.. lol

I even reactivated my ERA account after letting lay dormant for two years to escape the console warring. But I keep coming back here. It's addictive. Watching thread after thread derailed and turned to shit is like a drug. I even come here first for my hit before going to ERA.

chris rock adult humor GIF

Will Smith Slap GIF by Nightingale

Get a hold of yourself man!
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
The test does not show the actual clockspeeds though. He simply says he overclocked it but we know the 5700 does not really hit clockspeeds that high. Even the 5700xt wont hit clockspeeds that high at all times.

There are tests that people should be doing by capping the high CU card's clocks and ensuring the lower CU card actually hits its OC clocks.

The 6600xt and 6700xt would be ideal candidates imo. 32 CUs vs 40 CUs. 10.6 tflops vs 13.1 tflops. You underclock the 6700xt to 1.825 ghz (9.3 tflops) and do the same for the 6600xt and we are looking at a comparison pretty close to what Cerny was talking about.

I have not been able to make sense of the xsx not performing like a 12 tflops card in 'some' games. It could be a bottleneck due to the split ram or it could be the fact that this RDNA 2.0 card designed around higher clockspeeds approaching 2.6 ghz is capped at 1.825 ghz. Sadly there is no AMD card that sits between 40 and 60 CUs so this is our best comparison.

One thing I will point out is the 911 mhz Pro and 1172 mhz X1x. The CU counts were 36 vs 40 (11%) but the 28% better clocks really made it shine in some games. RDR2 being native 4k vs literally halved on the Pro was not an aberration. there were several native 4k games on the x1x and you have to wonder if Cerny looked at those results and realized that higher clocks do indeed offer better performance. Another example would be the huge performance gap between Nvidia's 10 series Pascal cards and AMD's vega cards. Vega cards were capped at 1400-1500 z while the pascal cards could go all the way up to 1.8-2.0 ghz. AMD couldnt compete with them until RDNA started hitting those clocks.

Where has the xsx not performed lik a 12tf card?

I mean there are cases on both consoles where performance takes a dump, but its obviously an optimisation issue because most games perform in line with there PC counterparts, but even the esram on RDNA2 cards throw a wrench into the comparisons.
 

SlimySnake

Member
Where has the xsx not performed lik a 12tf card?

I mean there are cases on both consoles where performance takes a dump, but its obviously an optimisation issue because most games perform in line with there PC counterparts, but even the esram on RDNA2 cards throw a wrench into the comparisons.
Matrix and other games where it has been on par with the 10 tflops PS5.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Matrix and other games where it has been on par with the 10 tflops PS5.

We dont know why this is happening.
It could be the APi and dev environment which has been confirmed to be better on PS5, it could be lack if optimisation on Xbox or it could be hardware related.

But i own both, and the XSX does seem to be getting a more consistent advantage with having better res in sniper elite 5, the quarry, bright memory drawing on Edith finch and trading blows on saints row but the PS5 takes the overall advantage there because of about 10% better framerate in the best mode.
 
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MikeM

Member
Well they did it with the PS5, its a loud big boy. Unless you luck out with a quiet fan, but the heat sink and fan are pretty small in PS4.
My PS5 is basically as quiet as my Series X. Something wrong with yours?
We dont know why this is happening.
It could be the APi and dev environment which has been confirmed to be better on PS5, it could be lack if optimisation on Xbox or it could be hardware related.

But i own both, and the XSX does seem to be getting a more consistent advantage with having better res in sniper elite 5, the quarry, bright memory drawing on Edith finch and trading blows on saints row but the PS5 takes the overall advantage there because of about 10% better framerate in the best mode.
I thought the Coalition (or some other major MS studio) helped with the optimization?
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Without a proper samples size it is worthless. Going full tilt my XSX is quieter than my PS5, but both are quiet and the XSX is not silent. So 🤷‍♂️.
For me my XSX is like a cat breathing, Ps5 is more traditional console noise, like a PS4.
 

Sosokrates

Report me if I continue to console war
Why the hell are you even talking about console fans here?
Read the title.
And if you want, create your own topic, in which no one will write
Lol, i brought it as a secondary thing when talking about console architectures, the derails were not caused by me.... But here you are trying to pin it on me.... typical.
 

Dolodolo

Member
Lol, i brought it as a secondary thing when talking about console architectures, the derails were not caused by me.... But here you are trying to pin it on me.... typical.
Well, stop talking about it.
This thread is about console sales, not your fans. You can discuss this in private messages.
 
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