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[DF] Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart - PC Review - Cutting Edge Tech But Lacking In Polish

S0ULZB0URNE

Member
Yeah, I'd like S0ULZB0URNE S0ULZB0URNE to educate me in how this game and returnal run just as expected on a mid range computer but TLOU is the one prime example of the power of the PS5.

BTW, some minor bugs here and there, I'll wait and as I just upgraded my RAM, I'll give it another try to TLOU for now.

R&C:RA is literally single game that made me want to have a PS5, now I don't even care lol.
I already did.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Gaiff Gaiff Why is he using Performance RT mode to do visual comparisons?

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Did you even watch the video? There are plenty of comparisons with Fidelity Mode. This video is sloppy for different reasons. For one, he doesn't even touch upon the performance penalty of the various settings. For two, he tests only an RTX 2070S. What about a 3080? His optimized settings don't really feature a benchmark of what they gain over higher or lower settings, and his CPU analysis is woefully lacking. Despite this, the video is still almost 30 minutes long, chiefly due to the fact that half of it is spent talking about the issues plaguing the game. I think Alex just isn't interested in doing this kind of content where all he does is pick out the problems for the devs. This is a post of his on era,

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But you are correct in your statement yesterday; DF rushed out a video, just like Sony rushed out R&C, and DF's analysis video is also unpolished, just like R&C.
 
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SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
This is very interesting stuff. The SSD read speeds during the portal scenes show just a 120-350 MBps read speeds.

Timestamped:


The portals seem to be CPU bound here because the PS5 and 7.0 GBps SSDs on PCs should be able to load this in a fraction of a second.
 

SlimySnake

Flashless at the Golden Globes
YNFgClO.png
EHkhlGy.png
abNQ24Z.png

Did you even watch the video? There are plenty of comparisons with Fidelity Mode. This video is sloppy for different reasons. For one, he doesn't even touch upon the performance penalty of the various settings. For two, he tests only an RTX 2070S. What about a 3080? His optimized settings don't really feature a benchmark of what they gain over higher or lower settings, and his CPU analysis is woefully lacking. Despite this, the video is still almost 30 minutes long, chiefly due to the fact that half of it is spent talking about the issues plaguing the game. I think Alex just isn't interested in doing this kind of content where all he does is pick out the problems for the devs. This is a post of his on era,

38k4AIa.png


But you are correct in your statement yesterday; DF rushed out a video, just like Sony rushed out R&C, and DF's analysis video is also unpolished, just like R&C.
I just finished watching it. Honestly, those Fidelity mode comparisons are very rare and he has an entire section in the video using the performance RT mode as a comparison. It makes no sense whatsoever especially when comparing it to a 4090.

The 2070 super comparisons make no sense either. hes still stuck in the past trying to prove his thesis that the ps5 is a 2070. it might have been true in 2020 but in 2023 using PS5 exclusives its obviously a dated comparison.

I dont blame him for not finding every single bug in the game, but he shouldve focuse on providing settings for the PS5 fidelity settings and running some fps comparisons like hes done in the past. Not sure why he's stopped doing those for first party games when he had no problems doing them for 3rd party ports.
 

Mahavastu

Member
I mean, the API did quite the heavy lifting, i'm impressed that just software side could do that well without hardware I/O. But, where are we going with x86 architecture from now on? It's OLD.
The X86 was old 20 years ago, but I do not see how a different instruction set would really make a huge difference in performance or whatever.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
The portals seem to be CPU bound here because the PS5 and 7.0 GBps SSDs on PCs should be able to load this in a fraction of a second.
It's likely single-thread bound since even going from 6 to 8 P-Cores makes no difference. Decreasing the clock speed does provide a tangible difference though. This means a bunch of threads are sitting on their asses during those sequences.

This has always been and continues to be a problem with PC hardware; the components don't work in perfect harmony. There are stalls and bottlenecks caused by parts literally standing idle while stuff is going down. This is absolutely no different from games that are heavily-single threaded and fly on single fast cores but are slow as shit on multi, slower, cores. Devs have to go back to the drawing board and make their code solicit those parts that are sleeping when they should be working.

I just finished watching it. Honestly, those Fidelity mode comparisons are very rare and he has an entire section in the video using the performance RT mode as a comparison. It makes no sense whatsoever especially when comparing it to a 4090.

The 2070 super comparisons make no sense either. hes still stuck in the past trying to prove his thesis that the ps5 is a 2070. it might have been true in 2020 but in 2023 using PS5 exclusives its obviously a dated comparison.

I dont blame him for not finding every single bug in the game, but he shouldve focuse on providing settings for the PS5 fidelity settings and running some fps comparisons like hes done in the past. Not sure why he's stopped doing those for first party games when he had no problems doing them for 3rd party ports.
Don't think he's trying to prove that the 2070S is equal. He's simply using mid-range hardware as he stated because that's what most people have. This time around, he didn't even bother giving us optimized settings for higher-end hardware nor benchmark the 4090. Based on his posts on beyond3d and era, he's simply not interested in that and shat out this video because he had to. Dude had an entire video dedicated to addressing bad PC ports and how to end them and absolutely nothing changed (was that after or before Jedi Survivor)? Now, his most prized PC porting studios kinda shat the bed while the PS5 looks great. That's the equivalent of your girlfriend cheating on you with your worst enemy. Not two weeks ago he was, "I love Nixxes!"
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
I think Alex just isn't interested in doing this kind of content where all he does is pick out the problems for the devs. This is a post of his on era,

38k4AIa.png


But you are correct in your statement yesterday; DF rushed out a video, just like Sony rushed out R&C, and DF's analysis video is also unpolished, just like R&C.

What an arrogant toolbag. Seriously, does he think his input is that valuable?
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
In the past, have developers implemented pre-release fixes to their games based on DF's input gathered from review copies?

DF may have visibility, but they are still amateurs.

I'm not saying feedback is unimportant, but the preening is just obnoxious. Especially as they've allowed themselves to be used as marketing stooges on multiple occasions.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
DF may have visibility, but they are still amateurs.

I'm not saying feedback is unimportant, but the preening is just obnoxious. Especially as they've allowed themselves to be used as marketing stooges on multiple occasions.
Okay, but has their input been used in the past to fix pre-release problems?
 

Zathalus

Member
I can only imagine how many of them are sick of him oversimplifying complex/difficult issues associated with porting to PC from console. Perhaps it's easier to count the one's who aren't.
Well it's not really up to DF to tell people how easily or difficult a port job is, just the end result. If the port is not up to standard then frankly the developers should have taken longer or they need a better QA process. Honestly I wish DF would be even harsher in the coverage they do, but I suppose they don't want to overly rock the boat as they have a close relationship with a number of studios, including quite a few PlayStation ones.
 

Bojji

Member
A 5600x running at 4.8Ghz..?..

With RT? Of course, game is super CPU heavy with RT.

This video proved that running the game first time from HDD is a stutter festival no matter how good the hardware, only when everything is in RAM it looks "ok" and that's how those videos of "running perfectly from HDD" were born.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Okay, but has their input been used in the past to fix pre-release problems?

Probably, but so have Reddit posts and other internet sources.

The inference is that their "expertise" is uniquely valuable, when most of the time its just nit-pickery.

Bugs are triaged so as to ensure that the most negatively impactful issues are dealt with first within the finite time available on the schedule. Minor visual imperfections are way, way, down the list. They are the epitome of "ship now, fix later" problems which are invariably numerous because there's always more important things to do.
 

Senua

Gold Member
Well it's not really up to DF to tell people how easily or difficult a port job is, just the end result. If the port is not up to standard then frankly the developers should have taken longer or they need a better QA process. Honestly I wish DF would be even harsher in the coverage they do, but I suppose they don't want to overly rock the boat as they have a close relationship with a number of studios, including quite a few PlayStation ones.
You're right but you won't get through to em bro, Sonygafs hateboner for Alex is a throbbing and hearty chode.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Then have his activities essentially been serving the same function and use as QA, and did he do that for free?

So, you're assuming that these issues could never have been spotted during QA and were simply set-aside?

I mean seriously, do you think stuff like shader compilation stutter is inconspicuous or comes as a surprise when QA is presented with new builds on a daily basis?

Just think about it.

Its not lazyness either, its just the consequence of development time and budgets being finite. Nobody ever reaches the end of a project and sits back satisfied that they've built something that is flawless in every aspect, because there's ALWAYS more that can be done. That's the essential nature of comnmercial software development.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
So, you're assuming that these issues could never have been spotted during QA and were simply set-aside?

I mean seriously, do you think stuff like shader compilation stutter is inconspicuous or comes as a surprise when QA is presented with new builds on a daily basis?

Just think about it.

Its not lazyness either, its just the consequence of development time and budgets being finite. Nobody ever reaches the end of a project and sits back satisfied that they've built something that is flawless in every aspect, because there's ALWAYS more that can be done. That's the essential nature of comnmercial software development.
Not assuming any of those things.

This is the main thing I'm getting at - Alex made a fairly innocuous comment about a factually true thing that he does, but you got really mad about it. Did he say anything wrong? You do acknowledge the truth behind the comment. What's the big deal?
 

Buggy Loop

Member
I can only imagine how many of them are sick of him oversimplifying complex/difficult issues associated with porting to PC from console. Perhaps it's easier to count the one's who aren't.

And most of PC gaming community is tired of devs not bothering to make a hex edit to include ultrawide or very simple functions down the line that script kiddies can do in the span of days.

Are you really putting devs on a pedestal? Some ports this year were absolutely ridiculous, like done by interns without peer review even.

If anything, DF is not even as scathing to the bad ports as they SHOULD BE! That’s the whole reason of that channel.
 
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Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Not assuming any of those things.

This is the main thing I'm getting at - Alex made a fairly innocuous comment about a factually true thing that he does, but you got really mad about it. Did he say anything wrong? You do acknowledge the truth behind the comment. What's the big deal?

1. He's not doing QA "for free". DF is a business. If he was doing it for the "love" he'd still be posting his findings on Beyond3d.

2. As I pointed out, its a great hustle too. Because as long as there are games, there will be bugs in those games to be highlighted. Its a gravy train that will never stop rolling.

3. DF is just another flavour of review outlet. I like a lot of people who've spent years in dev don't especially like reviewers. Sorry, just being honest.
 

bender

What time is it?
Not assuming any of those things.

This is the main thing I'm getting at - Alex made a fairly innocuous comment about a factually true thing that he does, but you got really mad about it. Did he say anything wrong? You do acknowledge the truth behind the comment. What's the big deal?

To be fair, his snark can be grating and his flippant comment wasn't even about a bug he discovered himself. Further, it's hard to carry off 0 woe is me attitude when you are perpetually stuck atop a high horse.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
So all the "see, it runs fine off an HDD if your system is powerful enough" people have been proven very wrong. It runs like absolute shit, only becoming fine once all that data is already cached in RAM. So, uh, have fun playing every section of the game twice I guess?

Which makes perfect logical sense. All the CPU power or memory in the world isn't gonna make a 50 MB/s HDD suddenly provide data faster than 50 MB/s.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
the rift portal sequence is still faster on ps5
it has lived up to the hype
Which is going to be the resource check-in time that many tried roasting Sweeny's comments over in the past saying it was class-leading IIRC, and the other issue will be PCIE bandwidth on PC - tied to memory bandwidth and CPU core clockspeed - to stream data; versus nothing because a unified memory architecture just dereferences with a memory pointer instantaneously.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
So all the "see, it runs fine off an HDD if your system is powerful enough" people have been proven very wrong. It runs like absolute shit, only becoming fine once all that data is already cached in RAM. So, uh, have fun playing every section of the game twice I guess?

Which makes perfect logical sense. All the CPU power or memory in the world isn't gonna make a 50 MB/s HDD suddenly provide data faster than 50 MB/s.
Has someone tried doing a RAM drive install while running their OS off of HDD? I'm sure that would allow those people that said that to get a technical win, while missing the point why it is a lose.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
PlayStation got a fast I/0 great but it still have a crappy cpu and gpu…no getting around that.
Textures play a huge part in the visuals of a game on any GPU, and with open worlds and larger data being the trend, the ability to stream faster than any other device because of check-in, and then deference in unified ram to eliminate RAM to VRAM transfers is going to be such a big problem for PC, IMO far more than optimising a very capable CPIU and GPU with to the metal software solutions, especially if a launch title is already making the PC brute force solution inferior in some aspects.
 

Zathalus

Member
Textures play a huge part in the visuals of a game on any GPU, and with open worlds and larger data being the trend, the ability to stream faster than any other device because of check-in, and then deference in unified ram to eliminate RAM to VRAM transfers is going to be such a big problem for PC, IMO far more than optimising a very capable CPIU and GPU with to the metal software solutions, especially if a launch title is already making the PC brute force solution inferior in some aspects.
There is a 3% difference in loading speed on the very first GPU DirectStorage game. A game that is rather buggy and obviously not finished either.

I think PC is going to be just fine.
 

Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Textures play a huge part in the visuals of a game on any GPU, and with open worlds and larger data being the trend, the ability to stream faster than any other device because of check-in, and then deference in unified ram to eliminate RAM to VRAM transfers is going to be such a big problem for PC, IMO far more than optimising a very capable CPIU and GPU with to the metal software solutions, especially if a launch title is already making the PC brute force solution inferior in some aspects.
Are you saying PC developers will have to figure out a way to take advantage of all this cutting-edge hardware because just telling people to buy more expensive stuff isn't gonna work anymore? Imagine that.

I'm glad. SSDs have been a thing for over a decade and it took fucking consoles to give PC developers a kick in the ass to start using what they've had for a long time.
 

Codes 208

Gold Member
Steam Deck has double the memory and a significantly faster processor and even then it struggles at the lowest settings at 720p. It also uses a SSD and not a HDD. So doubtful.
Its not a drastically faster ssd though, the 2230 ranges only about as high as around 3000mps. and the bandwidth limits it to almost sd card levels
 

ChiefDada

Member
PlayStation got a fast I/0 great but it still have a crappy cpu and gpu…no getting around that.

I'm actually surprised at how well the PS5s relative performance with PC has been 3 years in. Ratchet is virtually a launch game and i/o is only going to become a greater factor. In terms of CPU (especially) and GPU, they wouldn't be performing nearly as well if it wasn't coupled with the beastly i/o framework.

Oh and let's not forget PS5 Pro is just around the corner. If RDNA 4/RT traversal hardware is true, holy moly the platform wars are going to be extra spicy.
 

OverHeat

« generous god »
I'm actually surprised at how well the PS5s relative performance with PC has been 3 years in. Ratchet is virtually a launch game and i/o is only going to become a greater factor. In terms of CPU (especially) and GPU, they wouldn't be performing nearly as well if it wasn't coupled with the beastly i/o framework.

Oh and let's not forget PS5 Pro is just around the corner. If RDNA 4/RT traversal hardware is true, holy moly the platform wars are going to be extra spicy.
You are right but don’t forget that the 5000 series is releasing soon after
 
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