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[SlimySnake]

They discuss the Forza downgrade from the original reveal that had way better reflections that ultimately did not even make it to the PC version. Richard points out that it was clearly PC footage at the reveal since the consoles cant handle that level of RT at 60 fps anyway, so why not label it PC footage and then work on delivering that level of fidelity on PC. John points out some lighting and trackside detail downgrades as well. Alex brings up Starfield and how this makes two XSX games that have released with poor PC ports.

Timestamped:



To my annoyance, there was no talk of the massive Starfield downgrades to outdoor areas from Digital Foundry so this is a welcome surprise. Richard seems to be fed up with this nonsense so I expect more of this from DF going forward.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

 

[Turk1993]

I posted this also in the next gen thread. We should call them out on this bullshit. Downgrading it on console is understandable (not correct but yeah limitations), but cutting out features on pc and lowering stuff is just the biggest bullshit. Also the game still has performance issues and bugs. T10 has really fucked it up with this one. And i say this as someone wo really liked it graphics (even after the downgrade and issues).

 

[Senua]

DF gets a lot of hate for being too chummy with microsoft

They're right though its not acceptable. Way worse than the horizon trailer that showed rt reflections. This game is missing assets and a lot of detail present in the reveal gameplay trailer

 

[DeepEnigma]

Turn 10 Always Delivers™

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Built from the ground up for 6 years

Really disappointing to me as well what we got after what we saw last year as a preview video

 

[Saber]

Honestly they just dance according to whatever music is playing, for the sake of clicks(like complaining about select comparisons cuts for clicks when they mostly do that to catch people to their content and using rules when its convenient for them). Aways disliked for instance their analisys on small redudant details, but the rest is entertaiment to watch. Still respect Rich for his integrity and well construct opinions, Linnemen for its Sonic, anti-gass and Retro stuff(though I detest his rage mentally outbursts) and specially Audi. The only soycuck I can't stand is Retardalia.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

 

[GHG]

Built from the ground up for 6 years

Really disappointing to me as well what we got after what we saw last year as a preview video

*Downgrades built from the ground up.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Hard to understand why they would gimp the PC version unless they were just too scared of making the Series X version look so poor in comparison.

 

[Thirty7ven]

From the moment Xbox decided PC was day 1 everyone with a bit of common sense knew they were going to start revealing Xbox games with PC footage and keep it hush hush.

Downgrading the PC version is unexpected though.

 

[Horseganador]

Well, they should have said it and pointed it out in the numerous videos they have made, not tiptoeing around the topic.

 

[tommycronin]

They really gotta stop with the noncy faces in their thumbnails I had to unsub because of it.

 

[mrcroket]

Have you considered the option that perhaps they are neutral and are dedicated to making objective analyses based on their opinion and experience? That they really don't give a shit about the whole console wars, and that the whole biased thing is nothing more than the anger of fanboys who don't like to hear anything but that their plastic toy is better than the other brand's?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

DF are clowns, I unsubscribed from their channel recently. They don't cover things that matter and instead want to focus on 1 frame difference between Xbox and PlayStation in 20 minute long video. This is not really my definition of entertainment.

 

[SlimySnake]

Hard to understand why they would gimp the PC version unless they were just too scared of making the Series X version look so poor in comparison.

The game is poorly multithreaded. It is heavily CPU bound because it does not utilize the extra threads or many of the other CPU cores. RT has a huge hit on CPU so unless they fix their CPU performance on PCs, no GPU wouldve been able to run the game at 60 fps with RTGI or better RT reflections.

 

[RoboFu]

From the moment Xbox decided PC was day 1 everyone with a bit of common sense knew they were going to start revealing Xbox games with PC footage and keep it hush hush.

Downgrading the PC version is unexpected though.

the PC version has some issues. The game would be 5 fps if you could set the graphics to the reveal settings. lol. I mean literally putting it on the lowest settings doesn't make as much of a difference than you would expect.

 

[Senua]

You didn't see the DLSS 3 vs FSR 3 DF thread the other day?

I said only Sony fangirls hate DF because of them being too close with MS and my post gets edited because apparently I'm gaslighting. I just don't see MS fanboys accusing DF of being MS shills I dno about you

I wasn't saying only Sony fanboys accuse df of being biased. Mods gota read properly before interfering mush

 

[phaedrus]

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Curious. I think that Watch dogs and to a lesser degree The Witcher 3 had downgrades but that you could find some of the code for it in the final games. It is the same for Forza? Or was it a case of bullshit trailer that was never going to happen? Or a maybe in a few months/years?

 

[Killer8]

I'm convinced this conference came from the future and was actually for the next Xbox console in 2028,

Some of the games shown off probably still won't be out by then.

 

[GHG]

I said only Sony fangirls hate DF because of them being too close with MS and my post gets edited because apparently I'm gaslighting. I just don't see MS fanboys accusing DF of being MS shills I dno about you

I wasn't saying only Sony fanboys accuse df of being biased. Mods gota read properly before interfering mush

The point is that the thread I mentioned makes it clear that it's not only one group of people that hate them.

Their integrity has come into question a number of times across a range of topics. As it should, everything should be viewed with some degree of scrutiny, especially when these companies are being given "early access" and sometimes even having PR/marketing duties offloaded onto them entirely.

 

[Insane Metal]

DF gets a lot of hate for being too chummy with microsoft but I thought this was a breath of fresh air. They discuss the Forza downgrade from the original reveal that had way better reflections that ultimately did not even make it to the PC version. Richard points out that it was clearly PC footage at the reveal since the consoles cant handle that level of RT at 60 fps anyway, so why not label it PC footage and then work on delivering that level of fidelity on PC. John points out some lighting and trackside detail downgrades as well. Alex brings up Starfield and how this makes two XSX games that have released with poor PC ports.

Timestamped:



To my annoyance, there was no talk of the massive Starfield downgrades to outdoor areas from Digital Foundry so this is a welcome surprise. Richard seems to be fed up with this nonsense so I expect more of this from DF going forward.

Wow the footage they showed there with the black car has a really, REALLY low res RT. What's even the point?

 

[OverHeat]

Temptation to get a refund on steam rising.

 

[Senua]

The point is that the thread I mentioned makes it clear that it's not only one group of people that hate them.

Their integrity has come into question a number of times across a range of topics. As it should, everything should be viewed with some degree of scrutiny, especially when these companies are being given "early access" and sometimes even having PR/marketing duties offloaded onto them entirely.

I didn't say anything otherwise. Literally just said Sony fanboys are the ones accusing DF of being in bed with MS. There are MS fanboys who accuse DF of being in bed with Sony too. The mod just misunderstood my comment to mean that only Sony fanboys moan at DF which I didn't say or mean

 

[R3TRODYCE]

Sometimes I wonder how things would look if graphics weren’t held back by consoles. The game looks like ass most of the time but decent in gifs (typical) lol racing games always seem to under deliver graphically in the end.

 

[SlimySnake]

From the moment Xbox decided PC was day 1 everyone with a bit of common sense knew they were going to start revealing Xbox games with PC footage and keep it hush hush.

Downgrading the PC version is unexpected though.

I said this in another thread, but the day 1 PC ports have blown up in Microsoft's face. Halo, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza all have launched with massive issues. its just not worth it. Sony has the right idea. Release first then have porting studios do the rest. the only time they had their own devs port it, it blew up in their face with ND completely fumbling TLOU1's PC port.

these games are getting more and more complex, bigger and harder to make. You can expect devs to be making multiple versions and expecting them all to nail all versions. yes, they are no longer making PS5 versions but thats been replaced by series s so in total they are making three versions of the game.

I play on PC so I dont mind Day one releases but fucking DLSS in this game is broken with no performance gain whatsoever so whats the point? I spent thousands of dollars on nvidia GPUs to get better ray tracing and now i cant get it because the devs didnt have time to get multithreading right. Again, whats the point of a PC port when it literally cant do what they want. Starfield also had CPU optimization issues. You could turn off hyperthreading and the game would literally run better. So they are not using using 8 of the 16 threads on XSX either.

 

[Sleepwalker]

I said this in another thread, but the day 1 PC ports have blown up in Microsoft's face. Halo, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza all have launched with massive issues. its just not worth it. Sony has the right idea. Release first then have porting studios do the rest. the only time they had their own devs port it, it blew up in their face with ND completely fumbling TLOU1's PC port.

these games are getting more and more complex, bigger and harder to make. You can expect devs to be making multiple versions and expecting them all to nail all versions. yes, they are no longer making PS5 versions but thats been replaced by series s so in total they are making three versions of the game.

I play on PC so I dont mind Day one releases but fucking DLSS in this game is broken with no performance gain whatsoever so whats the point? I spent thousands of dollars on nvidia GPUs to get better ray tracing and now i cant get it because the devs didnt have time to get multithreading right. Again, whats the point of a PC port when it literally cant do what they want. Starfield also had CPU optimization issues. You could turn off hyperthreading and the game would literally run better. So they are not using using 8 of the 16 threads on XSX either.

They offer gamepass on PC day and date so they can't track back anymore. The solution for them is to throw more money at the issue and hope for the best or keep releasing broken games to fix.

To be fair third party publishers already make games for PS4/PS5/SS/SX/PC so I find it hard to have some sympathy here.

 

[Pelta88]

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

I haven't following this drama (but I know there is one on twatter)

Listening to these experts.....

Yep....

MS will remain the laughing stock of the gaming industry.

also in the defining duke podcast they validate a perception i have from the Xbox fanbase (warriors):

They absolutely need, crave, are thirsty AF for a critically acclaimed 90+ MC / genre-defining, culturally relevant game.


I keep seeing this argument/belief/copium mechanism: "The Media is biased against Xbox" to deal with the reality that games like Starfield and now FM have enough or significant issues that affect the overall score/quality of those games.

I think MS still hasn't shown a change in culture. Their ongoing dev issues in terms of release schedule and quality output are engrained in their ADN.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Hard to understand why they would gimp the PC version unless they were just too scared of making the Series X version look so poor in comparison.

clear mismanagement

 

[SlimySnake]

To be fair third party publishers already make games for PS4/PS5/SS/SX/PC so I find it hard to have some sympathy here.

Third party pubs had A LOT of issues back in the day with really poor performing pc AND console ports in the PS360 era. They had to bulk up and hire entire teams with experience with PS3, Xbox and PC architecture. MS studios are still relatively small. Same goes for Nintendo and Sony studios. Bethesda is another story, but Forza and Halo are self-inflicted wounds.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Third party pubs had A LOT of issues back in the day with really poor performing pc AND console ports in the PS360 era. They had to bulk up and hire entire teams with experience with PS3, Xbox and PC architecture. MS studios are still relatively small. Same goes for Nintendo and Sony studios. Bethesda is another story, but Forza and Halo are self-inflicted wounds.

Yes, they are self inflicted wounds but the solution now is to go through those growing pains and push through those issues. Sony's strategy is fine but Microsoft are clearly chasing a different dragon (sub growth) so they need content for the PC sub.

 

[Hawke502]

I said this in another thread, but the day 1 PC ports have blown up in Microsoft's face. Halo, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza all have launched with massive issues. its just not worth it. Sony has the right idea.

Redfall and Starfield were going to release on PC regardless, if you think the problems with these games is that they were developed for multiple platforms you are clueless. Starfield's problems are related to design choices, Redfall problems are related to the team working on something they didn't want to work on, Halo had problems with contractors and a new engine to work around (i imagine its the same of Forza Motorsports). The blame on Microsoft on this issue is not supervising their studios enough, which relates to Phil's complaints we had access in the emails leaked.

 

[keepthemeyesopen]

DF are clowns, I unsubscribed from their channel recently. They don't cover things that matter and instead want to focus on 1 frame difference between Xbox and PlayStation in 20 minute long video. This is not really my definition of entertainment.

So because you're not interested in what they cover, they're considered clowns to you? Brilliant. God, I should unsubscribe to Easy Allies, all they do is reviews, previews and podcasts to name a few but GOD DAMIT they don't go in depth on the technical side of these games.

 

[diffusionx]

I said this in another thread, but the day 1 PC ports have blown up in Microsoft's face. Halo, Redfall, Starfield, and now Forza all have launched with massive issues. its just not worth it. Sony has the right idea. Release first then have porting studios do the rest. the only time they had their own devs port it, it blew up in their face with ND completely fumbling TLOU1's PC port.

these games are getting more and more complex, bigger and harder to make. You can expect devs to be making multiple versions and expecting them all to nail all versions. yes, they are no longer making PS5 versions but thats been replaced by series s so in total they are making three versions of the game.

I play on PC so I dont mind Day one releases but fucking DLSS in this game is broken with no performance gain whatsoever so whats the point? I spent thousands of dollars on nvidia GPUs to get better ray tracing and now i cant get it because the devs didnt have time to get multithreading right. Again, whats the point of a PC port when it literally cant do what they want. Starfield also had CPU optimization issues. You could turn off hyperthreading and the game would literally run better. So they are not using using 8 of the 16 threads on XSX either.

If MS really do not have the resources to release it on PC and Xbox same day, and in proper condition, should they focus on Xbox first? The PC market is growing faster for them than Xbox is, which has grown stagnant and they seem to be losing ground in the console market. Of course this opens up a major can of worms, but I've said it before, MS going full third party and focusing on PC makes a lot more sense than them trying to make and sell a console.

 

[Thirty7ven]

also in the defining duke podcast they validate a perception i have from the Xbox fanbase (warriors):

They absolutely need, crave, are thirsty AF for a critically acclaimed 90+ MC / genre-defining, culturally relevant game.


I keep seeing this argument/belief/copium mechanism: "The Media is biased against Xbox" to deal with the reality that games like Starfield and now FM have enough or significant issues that affect the overall score/quality of those games.

Dukes are down bad. Cog specially has been making a clown of himself, talking smooth and low “let me let you in on a little something” cool teacher charade has been long in the tooth for a minute, and he put all the chips on Starfield. Just so stupid. The only way out now is closing ranks, crying conspiracy, and pulling out the persecution card. Them vs us. This fool would have you believe PlayStation fanboys run Steam.

 

[Windom Earle]

They gamepass'd the fuck out of this franchise.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

So because you're not interested in what they cover, they're considered clowns to you? Brilliant. God, I should unsubscribe to Easy Allies, all they do is reviews, previews and podcasts to name a few but GOD DAMIT they don't go in depth on the technical side of these games.

No, they are clowns because instead of dedicating their resources to produce a detailed and informative video breaking down Forza Motorsport's false advertising and visual/technical downgrade, they rather release a long ass video showing 1 frame difference in new Assassin's Creed. 100% clowns.

 

[poodaddy]

I don't care about this game but it's good to see any dev or publisher get called out for nonsense. Platform agnostic, if you lie or try to fool your customer, you should get dragged with bad PR.

 

[systemr123]

Built from the ground up for 6 years

Really disappointing to me as well what we got after what we saw last year as a preview video

It’s built up from the ground during that 6 years. Unfortunately the blue print was bad and the builders were not really skilled.

 

[Dick Jones]

*Downgrades made from the top down.

Fixed.

Also Turn 10 has been downgraded to Turn 9.

Not shitting on the game or devs here. Just shitposting. I think the complaints are overblown to be honest.

 

[JTCx]

Turn 10 Always Delivers™

Such "tour de force"

 

[skit_data]

DF has at least been very consistent in their criticism towards Xbox's tendency of either being very vague when it comes to what platform the "in engine trailer" is running or when the final result is not representative at all.
Which has tbh been almost every game they've released this gen afaik.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Dumbing down the PC version to make the console version look on par with it?

Shocker.

 

[SlimySnake]

No, they are clowns because instead of dedicating their resources to produce a detailed and informative video breaking down Forza Motorsport's false advertising and visual/technical downgrade, they rather release a long ass video showing 1 frame difference in new Assassin's Creed. 100% clowns.

yeah, if it wasnt for elanaldebits video, they probably wouldnt even have covered it in the direct.

 

[ckaneo]

Well, they should have said it and pointed it out in the numerous videos they have made, not tiptoeing around the topic.

I feel like this is a poor comparison because the sun is clearly in a different place

 

[GHG]

I feel like this is a poor comparison because the sun is clearly in a different place

Yeh, the last time I saw the sun from a certain angle it caused traffic cones, barriers, trees, grass and flora to disappear for me as well.

 

[SlimySnake]

Redfall and Starfield were going to release on PC regardless, if you think the problems with these games is that they were developed for multiple platforms you are clueless. Starfield's problems are related to design choices, Redfall problems are related to the team working on something they didn't want to work on, Halo had problems with contractors and a new engine to work around (i imagine its the same of Forza Motorsports). The blame on Microsoft on this issue is not supervising their studios enough, which relates to Phil's complaints we had access in the emails leaked.

Starfield's problems are more than just design decisions. Besides, i dont want DF to cover starfield's design decisions, just the downgrades from the original reveal which are plenty. The game's awful multithreading where you literally gain performance by turning off hyperthreading is proof that the game was not optimized for neither xbox or pc. The game was also delayed by a year so its clear that all these games coming out hot are partly due to lack of resources.

Devs can either work on getting their engine ported to PC for a day one release or take full advantage of the xsx hardware. They can either work on getting RTGI, full RT reflections on PC or optimize for two consoles. They did neither.

 

[Banjo64]

Please do not republish this meme without my express permission.