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[FunkMiller]

Again I ask, how do you "follow the war closely"?

How do you know the information your getting is reliable? How do you distinguish wartime propaganda from reality?

If you think the information coming out of Ukraine about how badly Russia is getting repeatedly fucked in the ass is being faked...

...then I have a (exploded) bridge to sell you.

Anyway, why not air these opinions about how you think Ukraine winning is just propaganda over in the war thread?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

In this thread I learned..."History is littered with countless examples of the media and government lying to the people for financial gain. Then like... about 5 years ago everything was fixed and we can trust them again."

 

[Flatline]

In this thread I learned..."History is littered with countless examples of the media and government lying to the people for financial gain. Then like... about 5 years ago everything was fixed and we can trust them again."

This has been happening for hundreds of years. People might know history but ignore it and prioritize what the prevailing propaganda at the time tells them which is pretty much that bad shit used to happen but everything is OK and legit now. The reason for this is because people are gullible af.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

If you think the information coming out of Ukraine about how badly Russia is getting repeatedly fucked in the ass is being faked...

...then I have a (exploded) bridge to sell you.

Anyway, why not air these opinions about how you think Ukraine winning is just propaganda over in the war thread?

OK, I'm going to teach you about lying 101.

If your girlfriend or wife ever accuses you of cheating:

You can...

A. Outright deny it. Just say NO and let the silence afterwards work in your favor.

B. Say NO and package it with a truth. "No, I was on a work trip. Ask Mike. We were swamped with work and hardly had any time to go out."

Then you wife/girlfriend thinks "Well, Mike was talking about all the work you guys had to do in Denver. Your office is loaded with project materials and you did call every day from what sounded like a conference room."

Truths are an integral part of effective lying+propaganda.

 

[Brazen]

Putting your full confidence in a single entity (whether an individual or organization) no matter their credentials is just as nutty as questioning every fact and leads to the same misinformation and the acting upon it.

It's about self-moderation and the methods we use to obtain what is fact and what isn't and people mistake that with trust.

 

[NickFire]

NYT, WaPo, PBS, Reuters, AP, etc... I'm missing a ton, as the NE is flush with long-running new publications (not to mention all the quality international pubs) that are reliable, whether some doofus on Twitter says so or not.

Don’t need Twitter doofus to tell me that interjecting opinions into fact-checks are not fact checks. Opinions are not part of fact checking.

 

[Slicker than your average]

I live in America. I have no idea what's going on over there.

I just think it's odd to see people attempt to dunk on a guy who proposes a plan to get the war to end.

How do you "get an idea" about war? What Tweets should I follow and what networks should I watch?

But it was a plan to end the war in the soldiers and civilians who are about to be killed and mutilated's favor.

Are you thick? Maybe you should get out of that box. Because you sound so dumb and uniformed on Bernd levels here.

Musk doesn't need dunking on because he embarrasses himself on a weekly basis and it's weird people like yourself defend his idiocy no matter what. It wasn't a plan it was sucking up to Putin, which is why he used a graph to say Ukrainians were pro russian .

 

[ItsGreat]

Again I ask, how do you "follow the war closely"?

How do you know the information your getting is reliable? How do you distinguish wartime propaganda from reality?

There is no evidence to be found that says Mark Twain actually said this. It's something only ever seen on Usenet.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There is no evidence to be found that says Mark Twain actually said this. It's something only ever seen on Usenet.

Denzel Washington said it though.

 

[BadBurger]

There is no evidence to be found that says Mark Twain actually said this. It's something only ever seen on Usenet.

It's also very clearly something Twain would never, ever have said. Anyone who read Twain, especially his private correspondances and other non-fiction musings, would immediately laugh at the prospect. It's like the whole Carl Sagan renouncing his agnosticism on his deathbed.

Edit: I'm sorry I just can't over that misattributed quote to Twain. This is the first I ever saw it. Twain, the man who started his adult life as a printer and contributing writer for a newspaper and won acclaim as a journalist working for many different papers before he hit it huge as a writer of fiction, and who continued to contribute to papers most of his life, would suggest a person was misinformed by reading the news. The guy who proudly repeated how he was largely self taught from newspapers and public libraries. Haha. I can't even.

 

[Ogbert]

Or maybe people who intend on lying to you are conditioning you to doubt sources of information that have proven reliable for literally centuries.

Anyone who tells you that fact checking is part of a conspiracy to silence you wants you to stop checking your facts, so that they can lie to you. Let's be real, just look at the band of thieves, liars and weirdos who continuously push this narrative. Alarm bells should be ringing.

I don’t think it’s a conspiracy at all. I think there are dull, boring organisations that keep government’s in check. Their work is important. They tend not to be sensationalist though and focus on fiscal matters and empirically verifiable data.

Some of these recent organisations though are little more than PR cheerleaders. It’s perfectly obvious when bullshit is being layered on top of bullshit.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Denzel Washington said it though.

 

[Slicker than your average]

Overlord musk is suggesting Taiwan become a special administrative zone like Hong Kong now.

He really loves suggesting people give up their freedom.

 

[Tams]

Overlord musk is suggesting Taiwan become a special administrative zone like Hong Kong now.

He really loves suggesting people give up their freedom.

He knows who his paymasters are.

 

[Vestal]

Overlord musk is suggesting Taiwan become a special administrative zone like Hong Kong now.

He really loves suggesting people give up their freedom.

To those in the back of the gallery. Notice once again how he suggest a democracy bend the knee to an Authoritarian government.

A person suggesting such “solutions”, either hasn’t spent enough time reading/understanding the situation to make an eloquent suggestion, or they just don’t believe in democracy.

Elon, either educate yourself or stay in your fucking lane.

 

[Tams]

To those in the back of the gallery. Notice once again how he suggest a democracy bend the knee to an Authoritarian government.

A person suggesting such “solutions”, either hasn’t spent enough time reading/understanding the situation to make an eloquent suggestion, or they just don’t believe in democracy.

Elon, either educate yourself or stay in your fucking lane.

Of course he doesn't. He thinks technocrats like himself should be in charge. Though don't give them any actual governing to do; they'd hate that. He's happy so long as he gets his money.

It's typical Silicon Valley self importance and idiocy.

 

[Artoris]

Suddenly he is like a different man

 

[akimbo009]

Suddenly he is like a different man

Suddenly? Sweet summer child... He's been this, always.

 

[Artoris]

Suddenly? Sweet summer child... He's been this, always.

He has nether said Taiwan should be part of China before, he is certainly entering new territory

 

[akimbo009]

He has nether said Taiwan should be part of China before, he is certainly entering new territory

He's said stupid shit for years, specific stupid shit isn't any different than all the other stupid shit.

 

[EviLore]

This latest authoritarian swing is gross.

 

[Tams]

This latest authoritarian swing is gross.

Yes, absolutely.

But the lack of integrity, morality, and empathy has been there for most of his life.

 

[thefool]

The reason you should never trust newspapers is because journalists are, in general, very uneducated. They have no knowledge of math, psychics, languages, history, reasoning, etc, making them very easy to manipulate, akin to children.
You filtering your worldview through the eyes of illiterate makes very little sense.

 

[FunkMiller]

OK, I'm going to teach you about lying 101.

If your girlfriend or wife ever accuses you of cheating:

You can...

A. Outright deny it. Just say NO and let the silence afterwards work in your favor.

B. Say NO and package it with a truth. "No, I was on a work trip. Ask Mike. We were swamped with work and hardly had any time to go out."

Then you wife/girlfriend thinks "Well, Mike was talking about all the work you guys had to do in Denver. Your office is loaded with project materials and you did call every day from what sounded like a conference room."

Truths are an integral part of effective lying+propaganda.

I‘m not all that sure what you’re trying to say, but I think it’s that Elon Musk fucked your girlfriend?

 

[akimbo009]

The reason you should never trust newspapers is because journalists are, in general, very uneducated. They have no knowledge of math, psychics, languages, history, reasoning, etc, making them very easy to manipulate, akin to children.
You filtering your worldview through the eyes of illiterate makes very little sense.

Jesus you really wrote this unironically didn't you?

 

[Trazyn the Infinite]

Jesus you really wrote this unironically didn't you?

There is a reason why journalism has become a massive joke. Imagine trusting journalists in modern day.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

The reason you should never trust newspapers is because journalists are, in general, very uneducated. They have no knowledge of math, psychics, languages, history, reasoning, etc, making them very easy to manipulate, akin to children.
You filtering your worldview through the eyes of illiterate makes very little sense.

So then, share your trusted sources. No one says believe everything you read, but there are reliable sources who do hire capable journalists who specialize in specific beats. That you think journalists are generally uneducated might say more about the sources you rely on for information than the journalism profession.

Also, your opinion is incredibly flawed, as you couldn't possibly be taking into consideration the news sources in many countries around the world. There would have to be an international conspiracy to mislead people literally everywhere, and that's just not realistic. I'm not sure anyone can say, with a serious face, that journalists are uneducated, so I source my news from Twitter instead. It just doesn't make any sense. Twitter has the lowest signal-to-noise ratio of any news source out there. It's extra work to filter out the junk.

 

[DeepEnigma]

There is a reason why journalism has become a massive joke. Imagine trusting journalists in modern day.

We can share a million and one videos where legacy MSM are handed a script and talking points where they all sound like state run media down to the identical gaslighting verbiage "catch phrases" (i.e. NPCs), but then it gets too political.

You have to be a total head in the sand narcissist refusing to admit you've been bamboozled to see it. Then again, in the age of social media, narcissism is a trigger that has been exposed in us all.

 

[Idiocracy]

I hope the users on here that used the phrase "lOoK aT tHe SoUrCe" after reading the paper from Musks laywers feel like dumb now.

 

[thefool]

So then, share your trusted sources. No one says believe everything you read, but there are reliable sources who do hire capable journalists who specialize in specific beats. That you think journalists are generally uneducated might say more about the sources you rely on for information than the journalism profession.

Also, your opinion is incredibly flawed, as you couldn't possibly be taking into consideration the news sources in many countries around the world. There would have to be an international conspiracy to mislead people literally everywhere, and that's just not realistic. I'm not sure anyone can say, with a serious face, that journalists are uneducated, so I source my news from Twitter instead. It just doesn't make any sense. Twitter has the lowest signal-to-noise ratio of any news source out there. It's extra work to filter out the junk.

If I'm slightly curious about the subject, most likely I'll try to find the source of data myself. I don't need a journalist to inform me opec is adjusting downwards their overall production when I can go read their press release myself. This is the fundamental change that led to its death.
Their profession became obsolete. Accessibility has changed from journalism networks that disseminated information to an open shared system. Its been a slower death than some expected because it has been taken over by corporations to promote their own agendas, masquerading themselves as news.
The average journalist today has no skills. Without knowledge there is no critical thinking, leading to the irrelevancy that mainstream media is today.

 

[Tams]

If I'm slightly curious about the subject, most likely I'll try to find the source of data myself. I don't need a journalist to inform me opec is adjusting downwards their overall production when I can go read their press release myself. This is the fundamental change that led to its death.
Their profession became obsolete. Accessibility has changed from journalism networks that disseminated information to an open shared system. Its been a slower death than some expected because it has been taken over by corporations to promote their own agendas, masquerading themselves as news.
The average journalist today has no skills. Without knowledge there is no critical thinking, leading to the irrelevancy that mainstream media is today.

That's just a load of bull.

Most people, yourself included, are not going to find the source for every piece of news. And just because it's the source, does not mean it is reliable. Would you trust BP over the Deepwater Horizon oil spill? No, of course you wouldn't.

Your attitude seems to be some sort of excuse for a lack of critical thinking skills. At least your aware of it though.

 

[thefool]

That's just a load of bull.

Most people, yourself included, are not going to find the source for every piece of news. And just because it's the source, does not mean it is reliable. Would you trust BP over the Deepwater Horizon oil spill? No, of course you wouldn't.

Your attitude seems to be some sort of excuse for a lack of critical thinking skills. At least your aware of it though.

All news are supported by data and facts.
If you're into unnamed sources or second-hand information, good on you. Buy a subscription of vogue.

 

[Tams]

All news are supported by data and facts.
If you're into unnamed sources or second-hand information, good on you. Buy a subscription of vogue.

I'm calling bullshit that you go out and find the original source for every bit of major news, especially as quite a lot will not be in languages you understand.

Grow up.

 

[akimbo009]

All news are supported by data and facts.
If you're into unnamed sources or second-hand information, good on you. Buy a subscription of vogue.

Holy shit, you are serious....... Well, it's a weird argument to "all people are all stupid" yet so clever they're creating a cabal to dominate the world. Not sure who's truly stupid in this scenario...

 

[Frank Horrigan]

"Believe what I believe or you're an idiot"

We're all idiots. That's the rub.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

If I'm slightly curious about the subject, most likely I'll try to find the source of data myself. I don't need a journalist to inform me opec is adjusting downwards their overall production when I can go read their press release myself. This is the fundamental change that led to its death.
Their profession became obsolete. Accessibility has changed from journalism networks that disseminated information to an open shared system. Its been a slower death than some expected because it has been taken over by corporations to promote their own agendas, masquerading themselves as news.
The average journalist today has no skills. Without knowledge there is no critical thinking, leading to the irrelevancy that mainstream media is today.

That's a good way to get bad information. The rise of misinformation didn't come from traditional news sources, it came from social media. Traditional news sources weren't promoting 5G and COVID conspiracies. Traditional news sources were promoting Q conspiracies. If you don't see the inherent flaws in sourcing your news from an "open shared system" then you're the mark. An "open shared system" is the exact system bad actors will target first for corruption. Many people are unable to discern bad information from good. We learned this well during lockdown.

 

[akimbo009]

"Believe what I believe or you're an idiot"

We're all idiots. That's the rub.

No, there is reality. Some people want to distort it, but there are facts that aren't subject to belief - they just are, like Putin is a fuckhole.

To say nothing is right and nothing is fact because "reasons" is actually the scheme not an accident.

 

[Frank Horrigan]

No, there is reality. Some people want to distort it, but there are facts that aren't subject to belief - they just are, like Putin is a fuckhole.

To say nothing is right and nothing is fact because "reasons" is actually the scheme not an accident.

Criteria need to be set to define what a thing is. For example, how one person defines a fuckhole needs to be the same as how they define everyone else. (just picking your example, not picking on you)

If putin is a fuckhole for invading a country, does that make the west fuckholes for invading iraq and afghanistan? (Just an example, not something i'm willing to argue)

For me, everyone, including Me, is an idiot, because we lie to ourselves and others to protect our own image of ourselves and we are willing to bend and break the criteria and stencil of fuckhole that we place on others based on our own internal emotions.

When you then use that to read media, we do it even more.

The only way to win the game, is to not play. Focus on what we can do to improve the areas of our lives of what we can improve and ignore anything that we can't do anything about. #deepthoughts

 

[Artoris]

No, there is reality. Some people want to distort it, but there are facts that aren't subject to belief - they just are, like Putin is a fuckhole.

To say nothing is right and nothing is fact because "reasons" is actually the scheme not an accident.

"No, there is reality"

any you of course know what that is 100 per cent of the time and anyone who sees it differently is always wrong
as only you know the reality

 

[funkygunther]

It's possible to be somewhere in between trusting anything and trusting nothing. I'm more likely to trust sources and people that have a good record of being trustworthy and be more suspicious of people and sources that are the opposite. Takes a bit of effort but is more rewarding than sticking steadfast to a polar position.

 

[Toons]

The increase of scrutiny in journalistic sources is an important and needed progression of our trust in these stalwarts of society, but replacing that with rejection of any and all information that doesnt explain literally every facet of what it publishes and instead encourages a "do your own research" movement is even worse and far more subject to corruption and misinformation than anything we had previously.

There was a time you couldn't simply access all sources that the journalists could, and while that meant it was harder to disprove things, it also prevented a bunch of idiots from thinking they knew how to do this better than everyone else. That narcissism has only increased and has led to people going as far to invent medical procedures or reject accepted ones(which is nothing new but again is getting worse)

 

[Lukaku's First Touch]

I was ok with musk, even liked him for all the space x stuff, but he's lost all my respect and I'll surely never buy a tesla in my life now.

 

[akimbo009]

"No, there is reality"

any you of course know what that is 100 per cent of the time and anyone who sees it differently is always wrong
as only you know the reality

No. But applying critical thinking is a thing, and there are such things as facts. What you decide to do with may differ based on your beliefs but that's not to say there isn't a common understanding which we operate within.

I really don't get why folks rather push nihilism as an answer to having reasonable differences.

Anyway - keeps getting way to close to politics.

 

[Brazen]

It's in everyone's best interest to contrast and compare multiple news stories/journalist/sources and if they are interested enough in the subject matters in the first place to take a dive, then yes, source material is merely another data point informing your own opinions or coming to your own conclusions. Which is exactly what the news is supposed to do, no more and no less or it becomes something other than news (propaganda). Are you going to have a 100% complete take on what happened or went down? No, no one will unless they are part of the said story or events.

But acting like there isn't or never two sides to many stories or multiple points of view, which is usually the case, and that usually the reality of said case is somewhere around the middle isn't people diving off into misinformation or conspiracy nutter land. That's just responsibly informing yourself, nothing more. Do not confuse idiots with ignorant takes (like with musk) and the methods in which people absorb their news in a diligent manner. There is a difference here.

I try to be 100% responsible, something that didn't even occur to me in my youth, when consuming news or looking at anything from other people's perspective. And this is especially true if the source is anonymous. Which gets used far more than it should and has put out more disinformation damning our outlook and our past way more than it should. I can think of major events not but 6 years ago that was peddled as truth yet turned out to be more Russian disinformation, I won't go into detail due to politics, but it seems to happen only when it's major or matters the most; either with politics or past wars.

With that said I'm impressed with all the details of the current Ukraine/Russia war, hopefully this is our future going forward because it's very easy to discern the truth of this particular event and see what's the misinformation/propaganda/bullshit, (unless you've been brainwashed by Russian state media, or you're amoral). But seriously amazing ground/root coverage and details thanks to modern technology and the brave people who are there reporting.

 

[Tams]

Criteria need to be set to define what a thing is. For example, how one person defines a fuckhole needs to be the same as how they define everyone else. (just picking your example, not picking on you)

If putin is a fuckhole for invading a country, does that make the west fuckholes for invading iraq and afghanistan? (Just an example, not something i'm willing to argue)

For me, everyone, including Me, is an idiot, because we lie to ourselves and others to protect our own image of ourselves and we are willing to bend and break the criteria and stencil of fuckhole that we place on others based on our own internal emotions.

When you then use that to read media, we do it even more.

The only way to win the game, is to not play. Focus on what we can do to improve the areas of our lives of what we can improve and ignore anything that we can't do anything about. #deepthoughts

You can't just ignore the world around you. Or at least you can't if you donct want to be rudely awakend one day, though perhaps you will die before that happens (any children you have likely won't).

You're apathy is exactly the sort of thing that is happening in Russia, China too. Sure, it's everywhere, but it is far more prominent in those places.

It sounds like you are too lazy for nuance. There are just "fuckholesx and "non-fuckholes". The US-les invasion of Afghanistan? Probably justified. Iraq? Probably not. It should be noted that neither were land grabs. The Afghanis have their land still (and a lovely government as well now), as do the Iraqis.

And the US-led coalitions never attacked civilians like this, with this frequency or on this scale.

 

[captainnapalm]

Man this thread - "Elon Musk is a villain for not beating war drums in Ukraine!" "The mainstream media are your friends and would never lie to you!"

 

[Frank Horrigan]

You can't just ignore the world around you. Or at least you can't if you donct want to be rudely awakend one day, though perhaps you will die before that happens (any children you have likely won't).

Of course you can. There are parts of the world that cannot be changed by an individual. Those parts are best ignored, or at most, watched like changing weather and nothing more.

You're apathy is exactly the sort of thing that is happening in Russia, China too. Sure, it's everywhere, but it is far more prominent in those places.

I wanna see the receipts. China isn't on the rise because of 'apathy'. It's on the rise because of exploitation by American companies and people willing to believe anything they're told by marketing and advertisement.

It sounds like you are too lazy for nuance. There are just "fuckholesx and "non-fuckholes". The US-les invasion of Afghanistan? Probably justified. Iraq? Probably not. It should be noted that neither were land grabs. The Afghanis have their land still (and a lovely government as well now), as do the Iraqis.

This is your 3rd attack in your post and another arm-chair psychologist guess of who or what I am like. Maybe you should turn that high powered perception on yourself and see that the problem lies within you.

And the US-led coalitions never attacked civilians like this, with this frequency or on this scale.

1 million innocent civilians in the middle-east beg to differ. That's before we talk about Vietnam and Hiroshima/Nagasaki.


But your post is exactly what I was talking about; you attack people aggressively, based on emotions and feelings and nothing else. You act like a champion for a cause yet have no idea what's going on outside of what you have read and heard. You then take that information as gospel.

 

[FunkMiller]

Man this thread - "Elon Musk is a villain for not beating war drums in Ukraine!" "The mainstream media are your friends and would never lie to you!"

You’re more E over in the war thread, but clearly D here. Well done you!

Musk probably combo on D and E, so you’re certainly consistent with your hero!

 

[captainnapalm]

You’re more E over in the war thread, but clearly D here. Well done you!

Musk probably combo on D and E, so you’re certainly consistent with your hero!

Whatever fella, I'm not overly interested in talking with most of you on here for obvious reasons, but I'm happy to provide some alternative context for lurkers and readers on here who may be interested. Unsurprisingly, you have not given me any pause for thought by posting a meme.

By the way, I certainly don't mean to interrupt the normally stellar levels of discourse that dominates around these parts. So you should feel free to spout your usual levels of idiocy.

 

[Tams]

Whatever fella, I'm not overly interested in talking with most of you on here for obvious reasons, but I'm happy to provide some alternative context for lurkers and readers on here who may be interested. Unsurprisingly, you have not given me any pause for thought by posting a meme.

By the way, I certainly don't mean to interrupt the normally stellar levels of discourse that dominates around these parts. So you should feel free to spout your usual levels of idiocy.

You're not providing some 'alternative context', you're just showing your lack of intelligence and critical thinking skills.

That's shown by the your response in the Ukraine thread of, "I don't know" when asked how peace could be negotiated.