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[Chaplain]

Where is 1440p @ 40fps with raytracing?

 

[ChiefDada]

Will any sony fp besides Insomniac gonna have gameplay with ray tracing.

Of course and this news doesn't tell us the graphical features for PS5 so it could very well be there.

Returnal does not have ray tracing. Period.

This isnt true, Slimy. Housemarque dev specifically says Returnal uses PS5 ray tracing hardware for directional light occlusion.The way it was described sounds soo much like diffuse dynamic gi as it relates to the particles, which uses rt. This is one of the few times I would recommend ign over digital foundry for the tech overview as they actually had the dev there to discuss it.

SlimySnake SlimySnake take the F'in L, bro. Your agenda is painfully transparent at this point.

Nah Slimy is good people. Cross gen can drive any respectable man to insanity. So many of us want to see the true potential of these consoles finally realized. Don't worry SlimySnake , September 2nd is almost here

 

[SlimySnake]

SlimySnake take the F'in L, bro. Your agenda is painfully transparent at this point.

What agenda? Read the quotes i posted straight from the developer and get a life.

 

[DeepEnigma]

What agenda? Read the quotes i posted straight from the developer and get a life.

Funny, because you can't seem to understand what he is even saying. Nor understand the software side of things when it comes to RT. All RT programming solutions are software, with hardware acceleration.

You spend 99% of your time on here bitching and complaining with zero consistency. Go play some games, instead of constantly whining about them.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The launch 4K/30 mode of Forbidden West is significantly sharper than all the current modes. Makes the current 4K/30 mode look like 1440p by comparison on a large display. They nerfed and blurred the shit out of distant details and textures cause their upscaling solutions couldn't deal with that level of fine detail.

THIS! WTF did they do to it? It's depressing playing it now.

 

[SlimySnake]

Funny, because you can't seem to understand what he is even saying. Nor understand the software side of things when it comes to RT. All RT programming solutions are software, with hardware acceleration.

You spend 99% of your time on here bitching and complaining with zero consistency. Go play some games, instead of constantly whining about them.

By that logic, every game that uses the hardware accelerated cores has RT. Even if they dont use it for lighting, shadows and reflections. Got it, genius....

No one is forcing you to read my posts. Put me on ignore and move on with your life. Stop getting triggered by people on message boards. How do you survive in real life? Dont tell me what I can or cannot post. Go to a Playstation.com if you cant handle any Sony criticism. Lots of snowflakes like you on their forums.

 

[Balducci30]

Honestly, rewatching the gameplay footage - it’s not like many games have reached that level this generation. I’d say horizon and ratchet that’s it - so I’m not worried about fidelity mode not being higher frames

 

[Reallink]

THIS! WTF did they do to it? It's depressing playing it now.

The Digital Foundaries of the Youtube's complained about it cause they demand shit is blurry as fuck instead of trading off minor of high frequency shimmer. They also demand that frame rate modes can not be objectively inferior, so developers capitulate cause it's negative engagement with CoMmuITy.

 

[DeepEnigma]

By that logic, every game that uses the hardware accelerated cores has RT. Even if they dont use it for lighting, shadows and reflections. Got it, genius....

No one is forcing you to read my posts. Put me on ignore and move on with your life. Stop getting triggered by people on message boards. How do you survive in real life? Dont tell me what I can or cannot post. Go to a Playstation.com if you cant handle any Sony criticism. Lots of snowflakes like you on their forums.

No, that is lack of logic.

I don’t ignore people, I’ll call you out directly for your miserable cunting.

 

[Bulletbrain]

The Digital Foundaries of the Youtube's complained about it cause they demand shit is blurry as fuck instead of trading off minor of high frequency shimmer. They also demand that frame rate modes can not be objectively inferior, so developers capitulate cause it's negative engagement with CoMmuITy.

It's probable that the dev just toned down the sharpening filter. Maybe its time to implement a in-game sharpening slider like on pc.

 

[dorkimoe]

60 FPS all the way baby, only psychopaths will sit there and suffer the wrath of 30fps.

Spitting the truth

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I am really curious to see if this game will have big enhancements like Horizon: FW, or if it's literally just going to look like a small improvement over GoW 2018. The trailer seems to suggest the latter but that trailer is pretty ancient now.

 

[Thaedolus]

If native 4k is the only difference then I'm going 60fps.

This. It’s a no brainer.

 

[3liteDragon]

I am really curious to see if this game will have big enhancements like Horizon: FW, or if it's literally just going to look like a small improvement over GoW 2018. The trailer seems to suggest the latter but that trailer is pretty ancient now.

Former will be the case, have faith.

 

[SlimySnake]

This isnt true, Slimy. Housemarque dev specifically says Returnal uses PS5 ray tracing hardware for directional light occlusion.The way it was described sounds soo much like diffuse dynamic gi as it relates to the particles, which uses rt. This is one of the few times I would recommend ign over digital foundry for the tech overview as they actually had the dev there to discuss it.

This explains it a bit better but this is basically what the DF article states. They are using the RT hardware to enhance their GI solution. The developer actually mentions how the level lighting is pre-baked while the other stuff like particles are dynamic. RTGI by definition wouldnt need any pre-baking of anything. Thats the whole idea behind RT, you shouldnt have to tinker with each individual light source. It all just works.

Once again, they ARE utilizing the hardware that AMD has set for RT acceleration, but that does not mean they are using ray traced GI. Here is GG saying the same thing about Horizon.

"We use ray tracing technology for a lot of things in the game. We use it for the sound engine, for the physics, and for the rendering. So we use a variety of technical setups, in terms of ray tracing. I'm not a tech engineer, so I can't explain it in much more detail than this. But yes, we are utilizing it."

And yet everyone knows that HFW does not have ray tracing. There is no question there. Not sure why Returnal is the exception.

 

[bender]

30fps.

Downgraded fidelity.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Former will be the case, have faith.

I'm setting myself up for the latter, but I honestly don't care that much. Sure, I'd love eye-popping visuals...but GoW already has great art and looks good in general. I care more about it being a phenomenal close to the Norse series.

 

[01011001]

Downgraded fidelity.

30fps = downgraded fidelity

as soon as you move the camera in 30fps the whole image will smear and you will have the "double image effect" due to the half refresh nature of the game.
that means as soon as you move the camera the temporal resolution, and therefore the perception of detail, will be lower in 30fps mode by a lot. the only time you will ever notice you are running at native 4K is if you stand still and not move your camera

also have you seen how high the input lag in the first game was in that Digital Foundry video last week? yeah, even at 60fps that was among the highest latency in this genre, now make that 30fps and basically add at least another 60 to 80ms of lag to that

 

[bender]

30fps = downgraded fidelity

as soon as you move the camera in 30fps the whole image will smear and you will have the "double image effect" due to the half refresh nature of the game.
that means as soon as you move the camera the temporal resolution, and therefore the perception of detail, will be lower in 30fps mode by a lot. the only time you will ever notice you are running at native 4K is if you stand still and not move your camera

 

[01011001]

 

[K' Dash]

Native 4K is such a waste of resources, there are solutions which look as good and let you focus on performance.

 

[bender]

 

[01011001]

this is the lag of God of War at 60fps on PS5 (same engine, meaning most likely similar latency numbers in the sequel)
that latency would be sub par for even a 30fps game... Halo 3 at 30fps on 360 has ~90ms-100ms latency for example.

so yeah, playing that at 30fps is like playing on a bad streaming service, that would come out at most likely around 180ms or even higher

 

[SlimySnake]

I am really curious to see if this game will have big enhancements like Horizon: FW, or if it's literally just going to look like a small improvement over GoW 2018. The trailer seems to suggest the latter but that trailer is pretty ancient now.

GG had to downgrade the resolution of the PS4 version of HFW from 1080p in the first game to 900p. They were able to get 40% of the GPU back that way to push the visuals like the incredible character models, the enhanced lighting and foliage. And even after that, they used software VRS to gain some more performance by downgrading the visuals on the base PS4 while the PS5 got a native image devoid of any VRS downgrades. Lets hope SSM does that too. Like 5 people are going to play it on the PS4. Fuck em. They can live with a 900p image. I saw go all the way down to 720p on the base PS4, and get a 100% more GPU power. PS4 Pro can be the 1080p machine.

Cory did say that they were tightening the visuals to 11 so hopefully they were working on a massive increase in visual fidelity.

 

[bender]

this is the lag of God of War at 60fps on PS5 (same engine, meaning most likely similar latency numbers in the sequel)
that latency would be sub par for even a 30fps game... Halo 3 at 30fps on 360 has ~90ms-100ms latency for example.

so yeah, playing that at 30fps is like playing on a bad streaming service, that would come out at most likely around 180ms or even higher

 

[01011001]

I mean, that's like calling somone a nerd that will tell you that watching a Youtube video that buffers every 4 seconds is bad
playing GoW at 30fps is like playing it on OnLive back in 2010, something noone should even consider

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

GG had to downgrade the resolution of the PS4 version of HFW from 1080p in the first game to 900p. They were able to get 40% of the GPU back that way to push the visuals like the incredible character models, the enhanced lighting and foliage. And even after that, they used software VRS to gain some more performance by downgrading the visuals on the base PS4 while the PS5 got a native image devoid of any VRS downgrades. Lets hope SSM does that too. Like 5 people are going to play it on the PS4. Fuck em. They can live with a 900p image. I saw go all the way down to 720p on the base PS4, and get a 100% more GPU power. PS4 Pro can be the 1080p machine.

Cory did say that they were tightening the visuals to 11 so hopefully they were working on a massive increase in visual fidelity.

I must have missed it - what did Cory say exactly? Was this recent?

 

[bender]

I mean, that's like calling somone a nerd that will tell you that watching a Youtube video that buffers every 4 seconds is bad
playing GoW at 30fps is like playing it on OnLive back in 2010, something noone should even consider

Hyperbole will certainly win an argument with someone who wasn't being serious in the first place.

 

[NikuNashi]

It's 2022. I can't imagine playing a game in 30fps, do you all watch movies on a black and white tv too?

 

[01011001]

Hyperbole will certainly win an argument with someone who wasn't being serious in the first place.

nah I'm serious. playing a game with 180ms latency is pure horror and on par with watching a video that buffers constantly
and OnLive has lower latency than 180ms in many games as well... a game streaming service from 12 years ago

 

[bender]

nah I'm serious.

I knew this when you used a PC Master Race image in earnest.

 

[01011001]

I knew this when you used a PC Master Race image in earnest.

well I'm speaking the truth
imagine playing a hack n slay with 180ms of latency (maybe more), only the most casual of casuals would chose that over the 60fps option

 

[Shifty1897]

Mmmm I love a good 60fps mode.

 

[ChiefDada]

Soo does this confirms no artificial player slowdowns for PS5 version???

 

[SlimySnake]

I must have missed it - what did Cory say exactly? Was this recent?

Two months ago, but looks like he said tightening the graphics to level 3 not 11. lol. I do remember something about 11, could’ve been a tweet by another ssm dev.

 

[RyanEvans21]

It's 2022. I can't imagine playing a game in 30fps, do you all watch movies on a black and white tv too?

That's why you have option like PC.

 

[NeonGhost]

That's why you have option like PC.

Must have missed when this was announced for PC

 

[DeepEnigma]

Two months ago, but looks like he said tightening the graphics to level 3 not 11. lol. I do remember something about 11, could’ve been a tweet by another ssm dev.

Just in case you weren't being sarcastic.

Tighten Up the Graphics on Level 3

“Tighten up the graphics” is a YTMND fad derived from an early 90’s TV commercial advertising Westwood College’s School of Industrial Services programs. Humor is derived because the video gives no information on what game design is actually like, and seems to have been written by someone...

knowyourmeme.com

 

[[Sigma]]

Must have missed when this was announced for PC

Then wait for the inevitable pc version

 

[NeonGhost]

Then wait for the inevitable pc version

I don’t have a PC

 

[Mister Wolf]

This explains it a bit better but this is basically what the DF article states. They are using the RT hardware to enhance their GI solution. The developer actually mentions how the level lighting is pre-baked while the other stuff like particles are dynamic. RTGI by definition wouldnt need any pre-baking of anything. Thats the whole idea behind RT, you shouldnt have to tinker with each individual light source. It all just works.

Once again, they ARE utilizing the hardware that AMD has set for RT acceleration, but that does not mean they are using ray traced GI. Here is GG saying the same thing about Horizon.



And yet everyone knows that HFW does not have ray tracing. There is no question there. Not sure why Returnal is the exception.

When the PC version of Returnal releases and it allows you to utilize full triangle raytraced GI vs their light probe GI system augmented by raytracing they'll all understand.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

I'll play at 60fps, but a 40fps mode would be nice.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

It doesn't need VRR if the framerate never drops

With VRR you can unlock the framerate allowing for FPS higher than 60fps.

 

[Kerotan]

60fps mode with VRR thanks

 

[Physiognomonics]

In my post that I quoted, they clarified to Digital Foundry that they are only using the Hardware Accelerated Cores to speed up their software GI solution.

I will post it again. When contacted by DF, they set the record straight. The PR is just that, PR.



This is straight from Housemarque devs, and not some marketing exec playing fast and loose with the facts.

Here they state the Hardware RT is done to render GI. DF are just spinning the meaning. But Returnal does use Hardware RT to render the GI, period, it doesn't matter how.

You think usually RT don't use CPU (so "software" stuff) to work? The contrary, RT, using "hardware GPU RT" is very demanding on CPU so it's actually mostly software rendering helped with a bit of hardware. This is just bullshit from DF as usual. They just didn't want to admit that Returnal was doing RT probably because of Alex usual Agenda.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

It's obvious that these studios are starved for resources and cant finish games on time. So cuts have to be made somewhere. If only they had a support tech focused studios like Nixxes to help with these secondary modes.....

I may be total ignorant noob here but just can't see implementing 40fps vrr mode as much of work when they already have dynamic res implemented

 

[jroc74]

Soo does this confirms no artificial player slowdowns for PS5 version???

I hope so. We'll see I guess. I just want faster traveling using the World tree.

I know some said 'but its cross gen so its gonna have loading'....well Forbidden West and GT7 should tell ppl to at least wait n see. Because the fast loading in the PS5 versions of those games are wild.

 

[Hunnybun]

I think the only reason 40fps mode was such a big omission from Horizon is that they screwed up the performance mode, right?

As long as Santa Monica do a decent job with the upscaling the 60fps mode should look great.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

I think the only reason 40fps mode was such a big omission from Horizon is that they screwed up the performance mode, right?

As long as Santa Monica do a decent job with the upscaling the 60fps mode should look great.

yeah, if 60fps mode is still sharp and not far from native 4k then 40fps is not a big deal otherwise it is

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Does FPS matter that much in such games?

I am fine with them being 30.

Only in fast paced fps games where I am flicking camera left and right is where I find 60 fps invaluable.