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[Crayon]

They are not that powerful. Plus, native 4k is a waste. Dlls does a great job and now fsr2 is close enough.

I'm really happy with console performance for the moment. Games look great, the loading and CPU baseline being brought up so much is promising. Now that sony is getting out of this extended cross gen period, I hope to see some serious shit.

Importantly, every game I've played is 60fps. Matrix demo was 30, though. I'd like to see a video of a ps5 equivalent running that at 60 to see what it looks like. It would probably be a more noticeable trade of lf than the usual toggle in today's games.

 

[Sanepar]

Man even a 3080 is not a capable of that standard... it has almost 2 times the power of these consoles.

They will be good 1440p machines.
Theses first 2 years were major cross gen games, remasters and oldgen updates.

Next year next gen only games will come and then we wil have all 4k low/mid settings 30 fps games.

Don't foolish yourself, these consoles are weak and this year we will have gpus with 4-5x times their power.

 

[playsaves3]

I've been saying this too. Many Gaffers have selective memory here because almost EVERYONE thought that these consoles would easily pull off 4k/60 ultra (not with RT) for cross gen games and last gen games receiving ps5/sx upgrades.

It's been a painful lesson thoug seeing the best we can hope for is 1440p/60 or dynamic "4k"/60. Remember, it's not just the fact that the new systems finally have a really capable CPU for the first time in a long time, but that they are RNDA 2 tech with SSD's that many people erroneously were led to believe would be game changers not just with loading times but that would be leveraged to produce better visuals and performance. Also we're used to consoles being able to be optimized better than the PC, historically.

But even Sony first party games like Uncharted 4 Remaster are only 1440p/60? Last of Us 2 1440p/60? The upcoming Last of Us 1 Remake is only 1440p/60 even though it's designed exclusively for next gen hardware?

It's weird to me that there are still people expecting miracles out of Unreal 5 engine games while in the same breath they're acting like we all shoulda known the consoles wouldn't be 4k/60 machines.

I think if more people were being honest they would admit that the consoles are underpowered compared to their pre launch expectations.

It’s lazy optimization.

 

[playsaves3]

Not completely, I mean death stranding runs almost at 60fps in it’s 4K graphics mode. I think 4K with RT at 40fps is becoming a norm with Sony first party games. Ratchet and clank and horizon 2 being prime examples.

DEATH STRANDING PS5 Gameplay 4K

I wish this game got vrr support to remove v sync which takes performance and to uncap the framerate (i think graphics mode can hit the 80s)

 

[LordOfChaos]

I hope FSR leads to more of it by mid-late gen rather than less, but it won't be near everything. 60fps with 1440p upscaled to 4K is good by me.

 

[playsaves3]

i def think for games pushing ps5 visuals, 1440p 60fps is a sweet spot. Demons souls did this beautifully.

Uncharted 4 isn’t pushing visuals… last of us 2 can run at a locked 60 in just BC mode so you’d think a native version would add a res bump for uc4

 

[playsaves3]

TSMC's price hikes might ultimately derail it, but I think a mid cycle upgrade was always the intention. I think either way this is going to be a very long console cycle. Probably another 6-7 years.

I thought a late 2024 early 2025 release made sense for pro models cause that’s when rdna 4 and zen 5 come out even using the low end of each of those technologies would be a more than 2x jump over the current ps5

 

[playsaves3]

I think we need at least 20-30+ TF pro consoles for this and this can be achievable. The answer is PRO machines are needed. Nvidia is already pushing for 100TF mark and rumor says AMD will reach 90 TF range as well. Consoles needs one more refresh on a new node.

Pro models are needed but not till rdna 4 comes out 2023 would be an atrocious time to release it

 

[playsaves3]

They are not that powerful. Plus, native 4k is a waste. Dlls does a great job and now fsr2 is close enough.

I'm really happy with console performance for the moment. Games look great, the loading and CPU baseline being brought up so much is promising. Now that sony is getting out of this extended cross gen period, I hope to see some serious shit.

Importantly, every game I've played is 60fps. Matrix demo was 30, though. I'd like to see a video of a ps5 equivalent running that at 60 to see what it looks like. It would probably be a more noticeable trade of lf than the usual toggle in today's games.

The cpu is the biggest problem with the consoles

 

[Rea]

Native 4k/60? out of the question.
Dynamic 4k upscale/60? YES.

 

[64bitmodels]

Almost 2 years in and very very few games offer 4k/60fps.

there's your answer why we havent got much 4k 60fps. We'll see more cool stuff in 2023 when developers start using UE5 more

 

[Crayon]

The cpu is the biggest problem with the consoles

It's a significant step up from the last gen ones. Im good with that.

 

[Wandering Leopard]

Native 4k is a waste of resources anyway, it should always be sacrificed in favour of other features like 60fps or ray-tracing.

4K/60 was always unrealistic, quite a few people were saying this in the tech threads before these consoles launched.

How much does it really matter anyway when we have a perfect example in Elden Ring - which looks like a last gen game - receiving so much commercial and critical success, and it could end up as the highest rated game this gen.

 

[Rippa]

Fuck “standard”!

As long as I have the OPTION to choose my sweet sweet cinematic modes for my OLED is all that matters.

Don’t force me into playing in Soap opera mode for my 3rd-person action adventure games.

 

[Kerotan]

On ps5 Pro yes. But 40fps modes should become a thing.

 

[lh032]

dynamic 4k with 60fps mode, dont expect RT, at least for me anyway.

 

[Hoddi]

It was never realistic to start with. Especially not when you factor in proper 'next-gen' graphics instead of the cross-gen games that we're saddled with.

'Dynamic 4k' is otherwise just a sham term that can mean anything from 240p to 4k and it doesn't actually mean anything. I expect many 'next-gen' games to only run in the 1080p range but because it's 'dynamic' then it will be called 'dynamic 4k'.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

No gaming format is running all of these new games highest settings TRUE 4K-60.
Upscaling techniques like DLSS has to be used.

So for true 4K-60 the answer is no.

 

[Knightime_X]

4k I'm hardly concerned with. I've been VERY SATISFIED with 1440p.
Even 1080p with some decent AA will suffice as long as 60fps minimum is always present.

 

[playsaves3]

It's a significant step up from the last gen ones. Im good with that.

Nope it wasn’t enough the biggest failure of the consoles was using zen 2 over zen 3 even the worst zen 3 would be above the best of zen 2. There are literally zen 3 handhelds

 

[Skifi28]

Don’t force me into playing in Soap opera mode for my 3rd-person action adventure games.

 

[b0uncyfr0]

Depends on the game - will a triple A have native 4K +60, most likely not.

Indies and less grapically intense games have no excuse though - but as some said, native '4k' is kinda a waste. It'd be better to push 1440p/1620p upscaled to 4K + 120 fps.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

God of War Ragnarök, a game designed for hardware from 2013, can't run at a native 4k/60 on PS5. So my guess would be yes, it's out of the question.

Even with 3080 there are a few games that struggle at native 4k/60. It's bloody expensive to render.

 

[Robb]

I’d say yes. As more devs move to UE5 and really try to cram all they can out of the systems framerate and resolution will nosedive as usual.

 

[buenoblue]

Edit: read question wrong. Yes

 

[Kagey K]

Pro models are needed but not till rdna 4 comes out 2023 would be an atrocious time to release it

Are they though?

We haven't even seen what these current gen machines can do. The push for 60 fps is hurting graphical fidelity more than anything. Releasing a "pro version" to play the games currently out would be the most useless half measure ever.

 

[Duchess]

4K is overrated.

 

[DenchDeckard]

60 fps at 1440p is perfect.

Just make it 60 fps minimum.

 

[samoilaaa]

i dont think that the ps5/xsx will be able to run games like dragon age 4 , next witcher game , gears 6 , mass effect 5 or any 2024+ AAA game at high settings native/dynamic 4k with rtx and 60 fps , maybe dynamic 4k medium setting 30 fps

 

[Rivet]

Latest generation consoles are pulling dynamic 4k / 60 fps in basically every game. Native 4k would frankly be a poor choice of resource usage. Power is better used in effects so devs generally chose wisely.

We even sometimes have 120 fps modes... I don't think we really need more.

Doing 4k/60 doesn't mean anything. It's all about the effects on screen. Both consoles already pulled native 4k 60 with less effects... We even had a 8k game.

 

[GymWolf]

Of course they are out of question.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

For a solid 4K/60 you'd need a 30 TF machine. Probably higher once the games arrive for the current consoles.

 

[Urban]

I am a Laymen when it comes to complicated pc architecture. With that said, I was hoping once console games started being designed exclusively for the ps5 of XSX we would see games become more standard 4k/60. Before launch I was hearing big talk about Zen architecture and 10-14 teraflops of processing. Almost 2 years in and very very few games offer 4k/60fps. It was all the talk before the consoles launch now it's almost always a sacrifice to reach 60fps. Are these console just not powerful enough to offer the option? Just for reference can a 10 teraflop pc offer 60fp?

wait for the games that are build from the ground up for the next gen machines

 

[Black_Stride]

It’s lazy optimization.

How many games have you shipped?

 

[Mr Reasonable]

there's your answer why we havent got much 4k 60fps. We'll see more cool stuff in 2023 when developers start using UE5 more

Yep, at 30fps

 

[MadPanda]

Native 4K yes, but with some reconstruction techniques and drs, it isn't.

 

[Fredrik]

Depends on the graphics. If demanding effects and polygon count etc are scaled down enough then 4K120 would be possible.

 

[ZywyPL]

After 1,5 year it should be pretty obvious the answer is a big fat no. it's either 4K30 or 1080-1440p 60/120FPS. And that's bfinevas long as there's bsome sort of upscaling applied to the performance modes

 

[PeteBull]

I am a Laymen when it comes to complicated pc architecture. With that said, I was hoping once console games started being designed exclusively for the ps5 of XSX we would see games become more standard 4k/60. Before launch I was hearing big talk about Zen architecture and 10-14 teraflops of processing. Almost 2 years in and very very few games offer 4k/60fps. It was all the talk before the consoles launch now it's almost always a sacrifice to reach 60fps. Are these console just not powerful enough to offer the option? Just for reference can a 10 teraflop pc offer 60fp?

Like ppl mentioned already- 4k60fps is achievable if game's graphics(in laymans terms bells and whistles) arent too next gen.

Just so u can understand it better- take ugly af tetris- this game could easily run in 16k 120fps and there would still be lots of power to spare even in series S(which has 3x weaker gpu compared to series X).

Now another end of the spectrum

4k dlss set on ultra performance so actual render resolution is 720p
cp2077 with all settings maxed(thats above ultra, including raytracing set on psycho)- that thing cant even run in 1080p60fps stable on 3090ti( https://pcpartpicker.com/products/video-card/#c=520&sort=price&page=1 )

So to sum it up- the less demanding/impressive/resource heavy game is, the higher resolution/frames per second it can run at(lets assume competent dev/good optimalisation etc).

If u want trully next gen graphics, like lets say in matrix demo, u definitely gonna need much stronger hardware for stable 60fps in 4k, as we could see already.

No full 4k but instead some dynamic res or some smart solution for good image quality can still produce gorgoeous visuals, but ofc compromises gotta be made, and current consoles will probably get midgen upgrades in 2-3years, then u can really expect the true next gen looks w/o devs cutting framerate.

 

[nani17]

Don't worry you'll be able to with games like fifa

 

[assurdum]

The cpu is the biggest problem with the consoles

Where did you heard that? Most of developers are quite happy about the CPU on consoles this generation

 

[Black_Stride]

The cpu is the biggest problem with the consoles

Nope it wasn’t enough the biggest failure of the consoles was using zen 2 over zen 3 even the worst zen 3 would be above the best of zen 2. There are literally zen 3 handhelds

Ohhh you are one of those guys.?
Got feeling you wont be here long.

You do know Zen3 and the PS5 launched the same month?
Zen3 SOCs only launched mid/late 2021
Did you expect Sony to delay the PS5 to wait for Zen3.........only for people to complain they should have waited for Zen4?

Beyond the OGXbox these consoles at launch were the closest to mid/high tier PC parts weve seen in forever.
The 3600X was the best bang for buck CPU in 2019.....these console effectively have cut versions of the 3700X.

At 4K the 3600X does above 90% the work of Zen3 5600X.......soooooo

 

[Physiognomonics]

Resolution is more and more going to be irrelevant with all the reconstruction techniques and DRS.

What matters currently and even more in the future are the framerate and graphics details. This is what people are currently asking devs, they want more framerate (40fps, 60fps + VRR) or graphics options (RT shadows, reflections, good image quality with TAA, DRS etc.), not higher resolutions modes.

It's being a long time since most buffers (shadows, lighting, alphas etc) don't render at native resolution anyways. When you are talking "native" resolution most of the time only the geometry is rendered as such.

To recap: native resolution is rendered completely obsolete nowadays.

 

[SkylineRKR]

1440p really is fine. Especially if you consider stuff like DLSS and FidelityFX, which will only improve down the line. Expect next-gen consoles to have technology like this natively built in. You can even get great results from 720p AI upscaled. This saves up lots of bandwith for other effects and high framerates.

Do many PC gamers even play on native 4k? I doubt it, many of them rather go for reconstruction or AI rendering with all special effects turned on. Consoles still take an ancient approach, probably because they've been assembled before the 2020's.

 

[YCoCg]

native resolution is rendered completely obsolete nowadays.

Unless you want to sell TV's in which case you NEED 8K by 2024 and 16K by 2028. Though I'd prefer them spending more time on improving current screen tech, get that latency super low at 4k/60/120/HDR/Dolby Vision, etc, raise those peak brightness, increase allowed refresh rates, etc.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Man even a 3080 is not a capable of that standard... it has almost 2 times the power of these consoles.

A 3080 can't do 4K/60?

Edit: If I'm not mistaken, Raiden IV MIKADO Remix on PS5 supports 8K?

 

[RoadHazard]

Yes. If nothing else for the simple reason that 4K60 is 8x the pixels of 1080p30 (the standard on base PS4). The PS5 only has about 5.6x the raw pixel pushing power (TF) of the base PS4, so you might see the issue. Yes, RDNA2 flops are more "efficient" than GCN flops, but do you really want just the same PS4 graphics but at 4K60 (or something close to it) for the next 5 years?

Going with a lower resolution and reconstructing to 4K will let you do more, but if you want a true generational leap (in anything other than resolution and framerate) you'll be looking at something like 1440p30, as we saw with the Matrix demo.

Bring on the mid-gen refresh I suppose.

 

[Sanepar]

A 3080 can't do 4K/60?

Edit: If I'm not mistaken, Raiden IV MIKADO Remix on PS5 supports 8K?

In all games at Ultra settings? No it can't.

 

[Torrent of Pork]

I'd have 60 fps over resolution, but AAA devs will choose 4k30 every time.

 

[jorgejjvr]

I'm pretty sure performance mode isn't going anywhere