demigod
Member
Because you said so? Ok, lol. Which makes no sense because you said they can leave and re-enter. Make up your mind.
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Massive FTC Leak: Mid Gen Xbox Hardware, Series S/X Refreshes, New Controller, and Game Plans!
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
AeonGaidenRaiden
Member
If the mid gen is true, this time I wont be switching. With the PS4 Pro, just from the menu alone it was night and day when you are now in native 4K. I really dont get what these new mid gens can bring besides better or stable RT which I dont care about at all, They aint pushing 8K either and I dont see any reviews so far saying a console (xsx or PS5) struggling with performance due to how many things are going on the screen.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Sales outside of US/UK have basically flatlined though.
And those markets are following the rest.
//DEVIL//
Member
Hate to break it to you. but this Ps5 pro will not have the power for proper ray tracing.
let's just say consoles at ray tracing are not really the best thanks to AMD
However, if you notice, many of the current games have variable refresh rates. for example, say Tekken 8 is targeting 2k, but when things get heavy on the screen it drops down to FHD to maintain the 60 fps. while the PS5 pro for example, you might not see this drop. so that is great.
The problem ( real problem actually ) with these mid-gen upgrades on consoles, Devs need to patch their games to get this extra performance. but history suggests that most devs don't do that. if they do, they will charge you money. and most don't even bother.
Tekken 7, Bloodborne, Drive Club, + 100s of other games didn't see any boost to the PS4 pro because... well they don't give a shit.
This is the main area where PC excels and shows its strength against consoles. your old card can only do FHD 60 frames, you buy a new card, and all the sudden the same game will do 4k 120 fps with high rez texture.
so yes. the PS5 Pro if it's not a hardware-level game boost, it's pointless ( and a proper game level, not like the crappy boost option they gave us during the PS4 Pro that did nothing )
The only company that managed to do something was MS during the Xbox backward compact where old games started getting a boost on a hardware level ( which pissed off many Devs including the Red Dead team where they released the remaster on all systems including Switch but not Xbox because of what MS did with the old version being boosted in performance in Series S/X )
King Dazzar
Member
Oh, of course its my fault, as I should have known its a risk trusting Xbox. I flagged and predicted the start of this mentality shift only a couple of weeks back. So gee, thanks for your compassion and understanding of my concern as an Xbox owner. Are you involved in their brand handling too?
At this time. If I buy a game on the PlayStation, that perceived risk is near zero, and I'm confident I will still be playing it on the PS6. If I invest in a £600+ steering wheel and pedals. I know its highly likely, I'll be using them on the PS6. If I buy a game on Steam, I think the risk is incredibly small that I wont still be playing it on the next PC I could build. If I buy a game on Xbox, I dont even know if there will be a new console and if there is, if it'll even be a conventional one. The risk is significantly increased with Xbox, so my confidence is reduced. As the future is unknown to what they are going to do within the hardware space. But you knew that's what I meant and you're are just being obtuse. The Xbox communication from some of its management and its known shills, for me and other console users isn't filling us with confidence. So it needs to be handled better. Is that really too much to ask for?
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Multiple games are struggling to keep 60 fps even in perfomance modes, others are already using only 30 fps modes, GTA 6 is rumored to only get 30 fps mode also (i think)
The Pro at minimum will deliver perfomance 60 fps across the board (I hope) and at best 60 fps at Fidelity modes for most games.
But... if you dont care about playing some games at 30 fps .. I really agree that the Pro is kind of useless just for more RT capabilities.
Killjoy-NL
Member
A PS5 Pro would be pretty useless in general, since there is no competition for Playstation this gen.
Might as well just focus on PS6.
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S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Nope
Although I don't think 2025 is THE year, I can imagine next Xbox in 2026.
- there is no need to have "Xbox Next" exclusive at the begining. Didn't we just had almost 4 years cross-gen period? People are acting like it will be different during next-gen transition. (it won't). How exactly release of Miles Morales/Horizon Forbidden West/GT7 and Ragnarok on PS4 hampered sales of PS5?
- How it will exactly piss off Xbox community? As long as PS5 will be relevant console, devs will make games for Xbox Series X/S. So Xbox-next will basically play same games with better framerate/features.
- Series S users won't be left behind in the dust as long as devs will be making games for Series X, because Microsoft mandates releases for both consoles
- "only a couple first-party games" is also pretty irrelevant point, because even if Xbox-next would release in 2028, first few years of first-party releases would be cross gen, just like in this gen
- Yes, and PS5 (and Pro) will be outdated up until PS6 launch. Then Xbox-next will be outdated when PS6 will release and then PS6 will be outdated when Xbox-next will be released in 2032-2034
There aren't many reasons why would Microsoft need to follow PlayStation footsteps in terms of generation release. All first-party games of Xbox are also on PC, so aligning their consoles to PC world is next logical step. If Sony wants to repeat 4 years of OG console, 4 years of Pro console, 4 years of OG console, 4 years of Pro console, it's their choice but there isn't a requirement for other manufacturers to follow that model.
Also, people are acting like having 6 years gen would be insane, when first Xbox was on the market exactly 4 years.
And. I don't even understand why we are having this conversation in first place since Xbox is supposed to go third-party...
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
All the counterpoints you mentioned would mean that the Xbox Next would feel like a redundant new-generation console. Not many people will buy it if there are no next-gen-exclusives games and experiences. It'll have the same problem as Xbox Series X|S, to solve which they are (supposedly) launching the next-gen console early.
In that case, Xbox Next will just be a better way to play Series X|S games, with no next-gen exclusive game. Exactly what a Pro console would do.
I mean....yeah?
I will repeat my question. How cross-gen release of Spider-Man Miles Morales, Ragnarok, GT7 and Forbidden West hampered sales of PS5?
Answer is. It didn't. People wanted to play those games in better visuals/framerate/resolution, so they moved to PS5. Same as they will with PS5 Pro. Pro would be like upgrading your PC with better GPU/CPU. Same as Xbox-next.
Playing those "generation" games is pretty tiring at this point when most talked about game today that have been just released is also available on OG Xbox One from 2013 (Palworld).
I kinda understands where Microsoft is coming from. This holiday showed that customer's perception currently is that Xbox needs to be cheaper than PlayStation to be competitive on consoles sales department. So releasing new console 2 years before Sony while giving it a price cut by the time new PlayStation will be released is exactly what they did in 360 gen. Having your console at 350$ (for example) when Sony will just release PS6 for 499$ (for example) is pretty okay strategy to me and it's not like current strategy is working out. Chasing "power crown" like with Series X is pretty dumb.
Not to mention fact that with prolonged dev times on AAA games, cross-gen periods will not be shorter. They will be even longer.
So even IF Microsoft releases Xbox-next 2026 and even IF they will have Blade ready (which is currently target), game that could be a system seller, I have no doubts that game will be cross-gen with Series X/S.
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Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
There are 2 points you're missing:
1) SM MM, Ragnarok, GT7, HFW may be cross-gen games, but there were also next-gen exclusive games for PS5 from the get-go. Xbox didn't have any next-gen exclusive games, but PS5 did. And that's one of the reasons why more people bought PS5 over XSX. It's incorrect to assume that next-gen-exclusive games have no impact on selling hardware.
2) If Xbox Next only serves as a "pro" version of XSX, with no next-gen-exclusive games, why would anyone pick it over a PS5 Pro, which also serves the exact same purpose? A PS5 Pro would also not have any Pro exclusive games, just like Xbox Next. They'd both be just ways to play PS5 and XSX games at higher fidelity and/or frames. And if your answer is "well, Xbox Next will be more powerful than PS5 Pro", I'd ask "have we learnt nothing from this gen launch that power narrative doesn't matter at all?"
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twilo99
Member
Ladies and gentlemen, and this is the response of someone who 2 months ago was still defending that the FTC and the CMA should prohibit the acquisition of ABK because MS's only purpose was to destroy Sony and create a monopoly on consoles ... Which did not even someone had to believe them when they declared under oath that COD would be multi .....
Some of you should be under the rocks after such a ridiculous 180° and yet here you are trying to believe that no one remembers...
There is an enormous amount of solid receipts in that thread lol
1. Yes. And we saw how much those "next-gen only" exclusives sold. They were hardly a "system sellers" and they were only allowed to be "next-gen exclusives" because they were relatively cheap in terms of budget, so recouping them on console with smaller install-base was possible. Every game with higher budget had to be cross-gen to recoup investment and that will be even more true during next cross-gen period thanks to ballooning budgets of AAA games.
But you missed my point. My point was, people bought PS5 consoles regardless fact that most sought-after first-party games were cross-gen for almost three years. Because they want to play those games in higher framerate/resolution/detail. Exactly why people who wanted to play Halo Infinite/Forza Horizon 5 bought Series X/S despite those games being available on Xbox One. Because who wants to play Halo MP in 30FPS?
It's almost like with phones. You are buying new one, because old one is just slow, despite the fact that Instagram/Twitter/Facebook are still supported on your old phone. That's why I said that talking about generations nowadays is pretty pointless.
2. I'm not saying that Xbox-next would not have "next-gen only" exclusives. I just said that it doesn't need "next-gen only exclusives" during release window of the console. And it will not have thanks to reasons that I mentioned here (ballooning AAA budgets that needs to be recouped etc.). Current AAA game development window is 4-5 years. Games that are starting to be developed now will be cross-gen no matter how you slice it. Same as there will be plenty cross-gen first-party game after PS6 release. That's why I said that Blade will be cross-gen even if it will be released during same year when Xbox-next will be released.
StereoVsn
Member
Thing is the only people who would purchase this Xbox Next are the Xbox enthusiasts who have current gen already and who a)Are digital only and b) Still enthusiastic about the platform.
This is quite a small audience that is almost exclusively present in NA and UK. And if it’s really just a “Pro” console coming in a year or two after PS5 Pro and a year or two before PS6 it will be completely irrelevant.
But we shall see. It’s certainly will be interesting. Personally I won’t be buying anything “adorably digital “ and will stick with my XSX (and PS5, not Pro).
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Bernardougf
Gold Member
I dont agree... launching a console 4 years later that has more capabilities and can offer better perfomance until next gen is not USELESS... the Pro never was about competition.. is about selling more to enthusiasts like me and others and maybe preventing some to migrate to PC midgen ... I would agree in waiting for next gen IF they where to launch two skus .. one normal like ps5 at the usual 500 dollars and one pro whatever they felt like charging for it. But at the actual circumstances... I think the pro is welcomed
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Don't forget that other tag line "Same great price $499":format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/24934027/xbox_series_x_brooklin.jpg)
Internal leak about Xbox's refresh - the subtitle at the top.
Edit - And trying to launch this in the same time frame of a PS5 Pro
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Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Sorry to interrupt your discussion but you do admit that Microsoft is loosing the battle in term of brand perception. To say it in your words, "This holiday showed that customer's perception is that Xbox needs to be cheaper than Playstation to be competitive". And instead of looking at what could give Playstation the advantage and how Xbox could do the same of have a marketable advantage of their own, like Kinect was at some point in Xbox minds, you want a new console. Don't get me wrong, I warmed up to the idea and would like to see a very costly early next gen console that would be like a turbocharged Xbox One X IF, and I said IF, there is also a next gen Xbox that ship not too long after the PS6. I don't think that it would work very well, but better than nothing.
We had rumors since last year that Sony will have a Pro. We know from Spencer that Xbox don't plan to have a Pro of their own. It make sense to me that more choice is good and that the Pro will help Sony get consumers and that Xbox having a early next gen is better than them not making consoles at all. The question have to be asked then. The PS5 is selling well. The Switch is slowly dying, but still have good sales and with the huge amount already sold Nintendo is making a lot of money. Why is Xbox not having the same? If we say Series S, someone will say no. If we say Gamepass, someone will say no. If we say that Xbox publish their games on PC day one, someone will say no. If we say games/ exclusives, someone will say no. And I can understand that because the answer is not that easy. But at this point we will have all of 2024 to see Xbox console sales and talk about it month after month. We will have hopefully soon the Switch and PS5 Pro reveal ( and more importantly the games that go with it!). IF there is no response from Xbox, outside of a great not E3 with many games and deals with third parties I find it probable that their year will be worse than 2023. They can't continue to sell Series S and X console for cheap without a redesign. But that need time and it seems that the plan was scraped. A new console too soon would mean risking having a Dreamcast scenario. Doing nothing means loosing even more. No easy choice, and I hope that they try to give us great games like Sony did for the PS3. Abandoning the Series S/X is not a good idea for me. But who know? Maybe it will work this time.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
No one has these answers including the people at the Xbox Roundtable (yes, its a thing)
I do think this disaster in terms of sales numbers is what caused them to look deep into jump starting next gen early
I have said this in other threads but I believe they want to launch their nextbox as close to GTA6 launch as possible
Who knows what direction they have settled on, I haven't heard and I haven't asked
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
It was your posts that made me accept this idea of Xbox having a early next gen console for enthusiasts. But this idea that they want to be as close to GTA6 as possible is weird to me. If GTA 6 is out early 2025. I would think that having a console out a few month earlier would be better for all parties. Rockstar get to have a few millions of console to sell their game and it make the "port" worth it, and Sony(that should have the Pro out before the holidays of 2024) get to sell even more consoles with GTA bundle and or with a marketing deal. If Xbox does want to have a early next gen console, doing it after will loose a lot of ground pretty fast. IF it is for the holidays 2025, them half a year will be lost. Of course if GTA is delayed it change things. But even then it don't change that much unless we are talking end of 2025 or 2026. I remember reading somewhere that Sony and Xbox both needed GTA 4 to boost sales of the PS3 and Xbox 360 back in the day. I understand that GTA 6 will be bigger for the industry now, but it can't help Xbox that much, because the PS5 and Series X version will probably be the base version no matter what. Unless Xbox will do like they did for GTA 4 and pay for exclusive DLC? Or have the next gen console have a port that use the console well, even if they had to pay to get it?
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
So what other console gaming comany is offering a PC version for free to each new console game you buy? What other console gaming company is including games purchased back 3 generations on thier current console without a subscription?
I think
HeisenbergFX4
is 100% credible when he says he heard a rumor. But I still can't wrap my head around this one. A port to a new console, from a company currently bleeding worldwide hardware market share, just sounds so very unlikely soon after GTA6 comes out. A bump to framerate or draw distance for a pro model of a large base is one thing. A whole new "next gen" port is a completely different ballgame. That said, we are talking about MS after all. If anyone could afford to write a massive check, or to offer Rockstar a too good to refuse deal, it would be MS. Would surprise me if the CEO authorized that kind of spending in the near term in light of recent reports. But I can't say I'd be shocked. Not after they legit went out and bought COD.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think
That said, we are talking about MS after all. If anyone could afford to write a massive check, or to offer Rockstar a too good to refuse deal, it would be MS. Would surprise me if the CEO authorized that kind of spending in the near term in light of recent reports. But I can't say I'd be shocked. Not after they legit went out and bought COD.
But Rockstar is the same company that still hasn't gotten us a proper next-gen RDR2 version too. Heck......they aren't even doing a PC version day one. No way they even accept a check from MS for a "Xbox Next" version.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
I absolutely agree aboutI think
That said, we are talking about MS after all. If anyone could afford to write a massive check, or to offer Rockstar a too good to refuse deal, it would be MS. Would surprise me if the CEO authorized that kind of spending in the near term in light of recent reports. But I can't say I'd be shocked. Not after they legit went out and bought COD.
HeisenbergFX4
. I trust him too. And as my post shows it is weird to me too. At this point Take two can ask for whatever they want and get it I think. It is just that we have maybe 15 millions Series S and 15 millions Series X today on the market. By the time the next gen console is out and go to 5 millions the Series S/X won't gain more than 10 or 20 millions more at best. And I am generous here. Versus 50 millions of PS5 today. And from now to GTA 6 probably easily 20 millions if not more consoles sold. GTA will be at best not a problem for Xbox, but at worse like Hogwarts was. A great boost for the PS5 but not that much for the Series S/X. They need to do something. But what? I hope that their next conference will give us some idea of their plans. And that their answer is not to buy EA/Embracer/Take Two...Those dirty dogs have not even added a 60 FPS patch to last gen version played on next gen. Bunch of rat bastards for that.
But what if the check was obscene? Like 15, 20, 25 Billion? Phil was able to get the green light to buy COD even when they couldn't make it exclusive. So who knows what he can talk the CEO into next.
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
At that level they would be sued by many people. 10 billions is more money than some countries budget. Uruguay revenue was close to 15 billions for 2020. But the idea have some merit. How much can they pay them to do it that can make sense for all parties, even the gamers happy? This would need a new thread to talk about in detail.Those dirty dogs have not even added a 60 FPS patch to last gen version played on next gen. Bunch of rat bastards for that.
But what if the check was obscene? Like 15, 20, 25 Billion? Phil was able to get the green light to buy COD even when they couldn't make it exclusive. So who knows what he can talk the CEO into next.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
PS4 Pro wasn’t made because of Xbox.
Sony: PS4 Pro Will Stop Gamers from Switching to PC
In a recent interview, PlayStation president Andrew House claimed Sony's new flagship console, the PlayStation 4 Pro, will keep gamers from leaving console for PC.
gamerant.com
Papa_Wisdom
Member
Killjoy-NL
Member
PS4 Pro was made mainly for a performance boost for PSVR.PS4 Pro wasn’t made because of Xbox.
Sony: PS4 Pro Will Stop Gamers from Switching to PC
In a recent interview, PlayStation president Andrew House claimed Sony's new flagship console, the PlayStation 4 Pro, will keep gamers from leaving console for PC.
Shuhei Yoshida talked about it pre-launch, but I'd have to go dig to find that interview.
Anyway, my point was that there is barely any reason to release a Pro.
People moving over from console to PC is insignificant, unless you're stuck in the Gaf bubble.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
360 and XB OG games don't work on PC.
PS5's PS4 bc alone offers more titles than the entire bc libary available for XB Series and the amount gets even larger if we add a optional subscription plan(I'm told subscription plans are good by Xbox people)
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Those dirty dogs have not even added a 60 FPS patch to last gen version played on next gen. Bunch of rat bastards for that.
But what if the check was obscene? Like 15, 20, 25 Billion? Phil was able to get the green light to buy COD even when they couldn't make it exclusive. So who knows what he can talk the CEO into next.
If MS gave them $10 Billion, then they may think about it.
Balducci30
Member
Doesn’t seem like much of an upgrade? It has more storage, a haptic controller but it’s all digital - why is it the same price as the series x was 4 years ago?
Papa_Wisdom
Member
I hope they release a solid black version of the new controller, instabuy on 2 of them. One for Xbox and another for my pc.
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
We were talking about digital libraries and thier legacy support. All old pc games work on pc, and xbox legacy support is far better than Sony. All the xbox one games work fine too, apples to apples. And that's not even touching on performance enhancements for old games.
As to subs, you said it, and you can't have it both ways. Also nothing quite as exciting as playing legacy games on the cloud, yay!
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
PC is another story.
Playstation 5 has a larger library/thus better legacy support(without counting ps+)
THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Some serious twisted logic in an arguement about which system has supported legacy console systems the most. Your personal preference of games and volume is irrelevant to the arguement at hand.
twilo99
Member
Is it going to be that good?
It’s the only “mid gen” refresh we are getting anyway
bender
What time is it?
Mostly agree, but Xbox's legacy support is finished as no new games are being added. One of the few benefits to PS+ Premium is the back catalog is growing thanks to them adding PSone and PSP games to the service and if you owned them on the PS3, you'll own them on PS4/PS5.
Hero of Spielberg
Member
Are they still streaming only or can you download old PS1 games?
bender
What time is it?
Streaming only would be the PS3 library. Though they can be streamed, the PSone/PSP offerings have PS4/PS5 native apps. They advertise PS2 games as well but those are just the PS2 games that were offered on PS4 which work on your PS4/PS5 anyway.
List of PlayStation 2 games for PlayStation 4
This is a list of PlayStation 2 games for PlayStation 4 available from the PlayStation Store. These are the original games, emulated at high-definition with the addition of PlayStation 4 features such as Trophies, Remote Play and Share Play.[1] There are 55 games on this list. Cite error: <ref>...
playstation.fandom.com
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
PS4 Pro wasn’t made because of Xbox.
Sony: PS4 Pro Will Stop Gamers from Switching to PC
In a recent interview, PlayStation president Andrew House claimed Sony's new flagship console, the PlayStation 4 Pro, will keep gamers from leaving console for PC.
Regardless of what reasons why Sony (or MS) made mid gen refreshes, I dont think making md gen refreshes is really worth it again. But if they got money to burn and think in 2024 it's really that important to do PS5 Pro (or Series X 2.0) go ahead. Dont get me wrong, I got One X and thought it was great with a power boost, higher res and a 4k optical drive. It was also a lot smaller too. But for the avg gamer, they probably prefer saving $100-200 and just get an OG PS or Xbox model. A PC gamer is likely to transition moreso since there's such a wide net of PCs, someone with a 7 year old system might trade up. But a gamer with a 3 year old PC might say forget it.
The mid gen models last gen didnt sell great anyway. Most PS4 and Xbox One systems were OG at like 80% of the sales. The console crowd isnt the type who wants upgrades like PC users and the system sales show it. Unlike PC users who span across an entire spectrum upgrading at any point of time like a fluid ecosystem up bit by bit upgrading every year (like how people post Steam GPU ranks and the better AMD/Nvidia cards inch up every year), the console crowd seems to prefer just buying a system, being happy with it for 6 years and then think about upgrading to next gen.
If console mid gen refreshes were like PC, then PS4 Pro would have big sales transitioning from PS4, and then PS5 would have a smooth slow transition from PS4 Pro like PC CPUs and GPUs. Instead, gamers didnt buy a lot of PS4 Pros and just waiting to splurge on PS5.
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THE DUCK
voted poster of the decade by bots
Sony has been playing some catchup here and has been better lately. I think though the core of my arguement stands with a lot of merrit, ms has a great track record of honoring it's digital purchases long into the future, more than any other console company. If you bought it digitally (or even physically in some cases), and it runs via thier system, it's still yours to own, sometimes with excellent enhancements. No sub needed, no streaming, and goes back 3 gens.
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Killjoy-NL
Member
I'm in complete agreement with you on that.
Been saying for a while now, that it barely makes sense for Sony to release a Pro-model, unless they have money to burn.
But I personally think it wouldn't be really worth it.
bender
What time is it?
PlayStation's digital ownership is the same as Microsoft's though. If you bought it previously and it is brought forward to their current systems, you own it and don't need to stream it or have a sub.
Microsoft backwards compatibility efforts are better but the the program is dead, sadly.
I just don't think there is much interest or money in it and why these efforts are given up on so quickly.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Volume=the most support.
PS5 has a larger Volume of bc than Xbox.
Your original statement was false.
Bojji
Member
I have ps3 games bought on my account. I can't access them on PS4 or ps5, can't stream them as well as far as I know.
Once they close ps3 store for good (and I don't have ps3 ATM) I loose access to them for good. Digital distribution!
demigod
Member
Pretty sure I had to rebuy all Final Fantasy games from Square since they had to port them to the PS4. Fuckers. There are no Final Fantasy Tactics version either besides the PSP and its not on premium.
