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Richard Packer

Richard Packer

Member
hEiWeaI.jpg
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
I like it when I get 3 paychecks in one month instead of 2. Normally we would put the money into investments and set some aside for vacation. This year we are skipping our normal vacation and prioritizing the greenhouse and saving for the siding & window replacements next year.

I'm trying to decide the best split between investing and home projects. It's a stupid problem to have and I feel eternally grateful I don't have to choose between eating and paying bills. I'm also incredibly happy, as my wife and I set out early in our relationship on the path to financial wellbeing. We've exceeded the anticipated progress on our timeline, including paying off of debt.

I wish I had gotten my shit together a lot sooner but at the very least, at least it happened when it did and not any later.

/blog
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Maiden Voyage said:
I like it when I get 3 paychecks in one month instead of 2. Normally we would put the money into investments and set some aside for vacation. This year we are skipping our normal vacation and prioritizing the greenhouse and saving for the siding & window replacements next year.

I'm trying to decide the best split between investing and home projects. It's a stupid problem to have and I feel eternally grateful I don't have to choose between eating and paying bills. I'm also incredibly happy, as my wife and I set out early in our relationship on the path to financial wellbeing. We've exceeded the anticipated progress on our timeline, including paying off of debt.

I wish I had gotten my shit together a lot sooner but at the very least, at least it happened when it did and not any later.

/blog
Click to expand...
I’m in the “average out the extra paycheck months into the budget” camp but wife is in the treat it like a bonus that goes into savings camp, which is fine. I wouldn’t say I’m real spend-y, but it’s also nice to have a partner that’s even less so. I don’t ever have to worry about coming home to some major purchase on a credit card or something. I have a buddy whose ex bought a tanning bed and a new car in one week without talking to him about it…JFC, to the moon Alice!

Wife wants no debt besides the mortgage, which is exactly how I see it. 12 more years and this house is ours!
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
Thaedolus said:
I’m in the “average out the extra paycheck months into the budget” camp but wife is in the treat it like a bonus that goes into savings camp, which is fine. I wouldn’t say I’m real spend-y, but it’s also nice to have a partner that’s even less so. I don’t ever have to worry about coming home to some major purchase on a credit card or something. I have a buddy whose ex bought a tanning bed and a new car in one week without talking to him about it…JFC, to the moon Alice!

Wife wants no debt besides the mortgage, which is exactly how I see it. 12 more years and this house is ours!
Click to expand...
I'm in your wife's camp. I use the envelope method for budgeting.

Paying off the mortgage was such a relief. We have a loan on the wife's car but got it during a 0% APR event so we are in no rush to pay it off.

We're both fairly cheap on a month-to-month basis. We're definitely not wanting for more. Areas that we do want are beneficial to us in the long-term (ie, the greenhouse will enable us to grow our own veg & herbs during the winter). I'd like to invest into getting less reliant on the grid but the next step would be to raise the house and put in geothermal climate control. Solar isn't really viable here unfortunately.

It also helps that we have pockets for discretionary spending each month.

The best thing we did as a couple early on was to sit down and review our expenses to determine what actually improved our lives vs what was less impactful. That enabled us to cut out all the bullshit and focus only on what brings value. We review our finances together monthly and calibrate on short, medium, and long-term goals.
 
Lady Jane

Lady Jane

Banned
My husband was a huge help for our financial well-being. He pushed me for us to invest in property to rent out and now we own two that are under an LLC. It's like a third income and it's only growing. Being financially stable does wonders to your state of mind. Though that doesn't mean that I don't need to chill out on spending...
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Maiden Voyage said:
I'm in your wife's camp. I use the envelope method for budgeting.

Paying off the mortgage was such a relief. We have a loan on the wife's car but got it during a 0% APR event so we are in no rush to pay it off.

We're both fairly cheap on a month-to-month basis. We're definitely not wanting for more. Areas that we do want are beneficial to us in the long-term (ie, the greenhouse will enable us to grow our own veg & herbs during the winter). I'd like to invest into getting less reliant on the grid but the next step would be to raise the house and put in geothermal climate control. Solar isn't really viable here unfortunately.

It also helps that we have pockets for discretionary spending each month.

The best thing we did as a couple early on was to sit down and review our expenses to determine what actually improved our lives vs what was less impactful. That enabled us to cut out all the bullshit and focus only on what brings value. We review our finances together monthly and calibrate on short, medium, and long-term goals.
Click to expand...
We did the Dave Ramsey class together a few years ago. It wasn’t terribly revelatory or anything, and that guy is a total douche bag, but it did get us more focused on establishing the budget and long term goals. It wasn’t so much that we changed strategies so much as we started paying closer attention to where the money was going and tightening up some shit.

I still see debt as a tool that can be properly used or abused- a 0% loan on a car is one example where I’d say you’re totally fine. The wife wants to avoid any and all debt like the plague, which I’m also fine with…again I’d rather be with someone who errs on that side of things rather than going out and running up a huge credit card bill because she had a bad day at work or something. With how financial issues can be a top reason for relationship issues, it’s nice to know we don’t have to worry about that.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
Thaedolus said:
We did the Dave Ramsey class together a few years ago. It wasn’t terribly revelatory or anything, and that guy is a total douche bag, but it did get us more focused on establishing the budget and long term goals. It wasn’t so much that we changed strategies so much as we started paying closer attention to where the money was going and tightening up some shit.

I still see debt as a tool that can be properly used or abused- a 0% loan on a car is one example where I’d say you’re totally fine. The wife wants to avoid any and all debt like the plague, which I’m also fine with…again I’d rather be with someone who errs on that side of things rather than going out and running up a huge credit card bill because she had a bad day at work or something. With how financial issues can be a top reason for relationship issues, it’s nice to know we don’t have to worry about that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Ramsey is not for me. I'm not religious. And I share your sentiment on debt.

I do hope financial literacy becomes more important for high school and college coursework here in the US. General micro and macro economics as well.
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Maiden Voyage said:
Yeah, Ramsey is not for me. I'm not religious. And I share your sentiment on debt.

I do hope financial literacy becomes more important for high school and college coursework here in the US. General micro and macro economics as well.
Click to expand...
The class was even run out of a local church and the devotion to the system the proctors had was sorta culty/creepy. But it’s not bad advice, it just seemed really common sense, and really designed for people living paycheck to paycheck. Not to sound all pompous or anything but everyone in the class started sweating when told step 1 was to save up $1,000 and my wife and I are sitting there like…who doesn’t have at least that much just in case…?
 
Lady Jane

Lady Jane

Banned
Maiden Voyage said:
Yeah, Ramsey is not for me. I'm not religious. And I share your sentiment on debt.

I do hope financial literacy becomes more important for high school and college coursework here in the US. General micro and macro economics as well.
Click to expand...

I'm convinced that the US government doesn't want people to be financially dependent and instead, rely on their programs. I don't see them ever pushing such doctrine in our schools. I was part of a few programs in my early 20's. They're all designed to only give you enough to live, not to get out of them. Though people don't think that when they see the checks, not realizing that those checks are never going to grow while your interest (thus spending) will. My sister and husband have their degrees in economics (I met him through her) and they put me on the right track. It's telling when somehow social messaging has convinced a sector of the population that the "bootstrap" philosophy is toxic.

I always try to help others since I receive that help myself but I have seen many being perfectly fine staying in programs. I have zero hope that our education system will address financial well-being.

When our daughter gets into her late teens, we're going to make sure she never has to get into those systems. I was having a conversation about this with a colleague and she got upset "So your daughter is going to be a typical daddy's girl?" Um, yes? Why wouldn't I want the best for her? I didn't have supportive parents and it's tough. I don't know why there are people who wish to bring everyone down to their level but I'm glad I've kept all of them out of my influence.
 
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Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
Thaedolus said:
The class was even run out of a local church and the devotion to the system the proctors had was sorta culty/creepy. But it’s not bad advice, it just seemed really common sense, and really designed for people living paycheck to paycheck. Not to sound all pompous or anything but everyone in the class started sweating when told step 1 was to save up $1,000 and my wife and I are sitting there like…who doesn’t have at least that much just in case…?
Click to expand...
Yeah, add in that most of that info is available to people for free. I think there is added value by having a community. Just outside looking in, it comes across as maybe taking advantage of people while still giving them some education.

Lady Jane said:
I'm convinced that the US government doesn't want people to be financially dependent and instead, rely on their programs. I don't see them ever pushing such doctrine in our schools. I was part of a few programs in my early 20's. They're all designed to only give you enough to live, not to get out of them. Though people don't think that when they see the checks, not realizing that those checks are never going to grow while your interest (thus spending) will. My sister and husband have their degrees in economics (I met him through her) and they put me on the right track. It's telling when somehow social messaging has convinced a sector of the population that the "bootstrap" philosophy is toxic.

I always try to help others since I receive that help myself but I have seen many being perfectly fine staying in programs. I have zero hope that our education system will address financial well-being.

When our daughter gets into her late teens, we're going to make sure she never has to get into those systems. I was having a conversation about this with a colleague and she got upset "So your daughter is going to be a typical daddy's girl?" Um, yes? Why wouldn't I want the best for her? I didn't have supportive parents and it's tough. I don't know why there are people who wish to bring everyone down to their level but I'm glad I've kept all of them out of my influence.
Click to expand...
I just think the government is entirely disfunctional. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
Thaedolus

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Maiden Voyage said:
Yeah, add in that most of that info is available to people for free. I think there is added value by having a community. Just outside looking in, it comes across as maybe taking advantage of people while still giving them some education.
Click to expand...
I think the community thing is the main benefit. And we did see people there making progress...like one couple was struggling, paycheck to paycheck, and the husband was spending like $15 a day on gas station lunches/snacks. All he did was start bringing his own lunch and all the sudden they started having a surplus every month...it's like duh dude, I know people I can guarantee make 5x his income who would never dream of spending that much on junk food every day...and it seems like that's the target demo for that class. But like I said, it did get us to focus on the budget and long term goals more even if we didn't really alter any common sense strategies we already had employed. But some stuff he advises is just dumb, like paying off lowest balances first rather than highest interest. I suppose there's a psychological boost to paying off a loan, but it's not the best way to reduce your costs. That kind of strategy doesn't work for me. It's like setting your clock ahead 5 minutes so you won't be late....well I know the clock is running fast, so it's not like I'm able to fool myself here. But I guess it's a sound strategy for people without discipline?
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
Thaedolus said:
I think the community thing is the main benefit. And we did see people there making progress...like one couple was struggling, paycheck to paycheck, and the husband was spending like $15 a day on gas station lunches/snacks. All he did was start bringing his own lunch and all the sudden they started having a surplus every month...it's like duh dude, I know people I can guarantee make 5x his income who would never dream of spending that much on junk food every day...and it seems like that's the target demo for that class. But like I said, it did get us to focus on the budget and long term goals more even if we didn't really alter any common sense strategies we already had employed. But some stuff he advises is just dumb, like paying off lowest balances first rather than highest interest. I suppose there's a psychological boost to paying off a loan, but it's not the best way to reduce your costs. That kind of strategy doesn't work for me. It's like setting your clock ahead 5 minutes so you won't be late....well I know the clock is running fast, so it's not like I'm able to fool myself here. But I guess it's a sound strategy for people without discipline?
Click to expand...
It does depend. We targeted paying off one of my student loans that had a smaller % and was the lowest value because the account kept getting sold off. It would create periods where I would be unable to make a payment yet the account would still accrue interest. I think it got sold back and forth 4 or 5 times during the lifetime of the loan. After that, yeah, we targeted the highest interest accounts. There is definitely a mental reward that comes with getting something paid off. I think for someone under a huge amount of stress, paying off that smallest loan might be worth it. Having that minimum value come back as available each month can create greater flexibility as well, especially if they have minimal savings.

I forget exactly what the beginning of our path was, but I believe we had 1 month of expenses, then smallest loan paid, then paid off the rest by interest rate. This flowchart from the financial independence subreddit was essentially what we did. It was crazy to get the end of that flowchart and still feels pretty good to know we've got enough of a nest egg that we most likely will never live below median income for our area. Having flexibility to take a much lower paying job is incredibly liberating.

You would be shocked at how common things like that gas station snack thing are. I know people who religiously buy Starbucks coffee everyday and then complain they can't afford groceries. I also have friends who make enough money that they never budget and will be able to retire easily whenever they want.

Also, kind of a cool little tool I found while looking at average income in my area:

Living Wage Calculator

livingwage.mit.edu livingwage.mit.edu
 
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haxan7

haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
OmegaSupreme said:
I just need a million or so. My finances would be great then. I'm not greedy.
Click to expand...
Here's a good starting point.

The Total Money Makeover Workbook: Classic Edition: The Essential Companion for Applying the Book’s Principles: Ramsey, Dave: 9781400206506: Amazon.com: Books

The Total Money Makeover Workbook: Classic Edition: The Essential Companion for Applying the Book’s Principles [Ramsey, Dave] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Total Money Makeover Workbook: Classic Edition: The Essential Companion for Applying the Book’s Principles
www.amazon.com
TMMO-front-2.jpg
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
haxan7 said:
Here's a good starting point.

The Total Money Makeover Workbook: Classic Edition: The Essential Companion for Applying the Book’s Principles: Ramsey, Dave: 9781400206506: Amazon.com: Books

The Total Money Makeover Workbook: Classic Edition: The Essential Companion for Applying the Book’s Principles [Ramsey, Dave] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. The Total Money Makeover Workbook: Classic Edition: The Essential Companion for Applying the Book’s Principles
www.amazon.com
TMMO-front-2.jpg
Click to expand...
The anti-credit card thing is also another point that I disagree with Ramsey. If you can't manage the CC, then absolutely. I make about $1-2k back annually on my credit card and pay the balance in full each month.
 
haxan7

haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
Maiden Voyage said:
The anti-credit card thing is also another point that I disagree with Ramsey. If you can't manage the CC, then absolutely. I make about $1-2k back annually on my credit card and pay the balance in full each month.
Click to expand...
I disagree with him also on that point. Some people probably shouldn't be around CCs, but I never had any kind of spending issues so it's never been a problem.
 
Lady Jane

Lady Jane

Banned
Capital One is the bomb. It's a $400 annual fee but as long as you throw your mortgage and insurance on it, those points skyrocket and you'll get that money back in flights in a couple of months.
 
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*Nightwing

*Nightwing

Member
Maiden Voyage said:
BLEACHING AIN'T FREE PEOPLE
Click to expand...
And worth every penny!

I’m great at bleaching bungholes… picking the right CC not so much.

Did take advantage right before interest rates went up to consolidate all 2 of my CC and take a personal loan to quit my job and start freelance coding to enter a more lucrative career in the future… then everything became twice as expensive…

I still regret nothing and fear nothing, I seem to always land on my feet and manage even in the worst cases, but all you who are financially secure via your own merits and planning feel free to live vicariously through me to really enjoy being financially responsible even more as you should
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
haxan7 said:
I disagree with him also on that point. Some people probably shouldn't be around CCs, but I never had any kind of spending issues so it's never been a problem.
Click to expand...
At the end of the day I think he does more good than harm. Anyone that can help people reach financial wellbeing is doing good work.

Lady Jane said:
Capital One is the bomb. It's a $400 annual fee but as long as you throw your mortgage and insurance on it, those points skyrocket and you'll get that money back in flights in a couple of months.
Click to expand...
I've got a few but my capital one limit is extremely high, which helps with utilization for my credit score. Which card has a $400 annual fee? That seems high. Mine is like $95 or something.
 
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Lady Jane

Lady Jane

Banned
Maiden Voyage said:
At the end of the day I think he does more good than harm. Anyone that can help people reach financial wellbeing is doing good work.


I've got a few but my capital one limit is extremely high, which helps with utilization for my credit score. Which card has a $400 annual fee? That seems high. Mine is like $95 or something.
Click to expand...

Venture X. x2 on miles
 
Lady Jane

Lady Jane

Banned
Maiden Voyage said:
I've got the base Venture which is also x2 miles. I see you get a $300 travel credit each year, would would offset the added cost. Annual bonus miles each year too is tempting. Hmm.. Thanks for the info, I might need to look into a change.
Click to expand...

I didn't go too into it. Though if you use Capital One's travel portal, you get way more off on flights and hotels. It's definitely a card you should only have if you travel a lot. And make sure to utilize the $100 credit on TSA pre-check if you get it. You also get a lot of miles for referring.

As nice as the Capital One lounges are, they're always deserted and I want to have a drink where it feels alive so that perk is pretty useless. I've also had to price check flights a few times.
 
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Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
Lady Jane said:
I didn't go too into it. Though if you use Capital One's travel portal, you get way more off on flights and hotels. It's definitely a card you should only have if you travel a lot. And make sure to utilize the $100 credit on TSA pre-check if you get it. You also get a lot of miles for referring.

As nice as the Capital One lounges are, they're always deserted and I want to have a drink where it feels alive so that perk is pretty useless. I've also had to price check flights a few times.
Click to expand...
I travel for work a lot but have to use Concur for bookings. I definitely take advantage of the Global entry/TSA-precheck reimbursement. My main hub is ORD so no lounge unfortunately. I wind up in DIA sometimes though. I'll check it out on my next layover, time allowing of course.

I'm in Chicago next week. I won't be flying home until Saturday, unfortunately. Going to smoke some cigars with the boss. It's becoming a bit of a ritual.
 
Maiden Voyage

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
Gat damn. When that edible hits, the wife is home with the day off, made stir fry, and listening to good tunes on a Friday afternoon. Life is bliss sometimes.
 
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