Modern online shooters sucks and are no longer fun.

Filben

Member
And you didn't even mention the needlessly over-complicated mechanics that requires you to stick to the game (if fomo and other manipulative tactics aren't enough already).

Try to get back to games like, let's say, Apex Legends after year. You'll get stomped if you only play (and have played) for like two evenings a week because of all the intricate stuff going on.

you gotta learn the legends/heroes/operators (what often feels like there's hundred of them if the game is around long enough), their abilities, weapons (which constantly change, sometimes completely being overhauled), etc.

It's not just shooting and tactics alone anymore.

of course there is that glorious match making system that only works halfway though. Because you have to manage to actually fight the players who are noobs like yourself before they get crushed by better players who then crush you. Especially in BR games this is the reason why difficulty feels so random more often. It's enough to have a few guys on the server really knowing what they're doing and they'll wipe the server, leaving no one for you at your skill level. In games without immediate respawn (another intricate mechanic in many BR games) you're done for.

I play Splitgate from time to time. This is a fun shooter. Only intricate mechanic is the portal, and that mechanic doesn't change every few months. Once you get used to it after a couple of matches or hours you can focus on actually shooting each other.
 
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Lasha

Member
High end sports camps put athletes of similar skill levels together and their #1 objective is to improve performance and teach.

If you're playing basketball against Lebron James, you're only chance is to chuck the ball at the hoop ASAP, form be damned, because he won't let you do anything else. That doesn't lead to skill improvement.

Current SBMM feeds you to better players a % of time and then bumps you back down when they think you're at risk to quit the game.

Sports camps are closer to private servers than SBMM. The camps that I attended were divided by both age an skill. Lebron never showed up but I did have to compete against professionals in the camps during my later high school years. Playing against better people when you are at the base level of competence is always good. The fighting game matches against I have against pros are super helpful. I get firsthand experience with the difference in execution and I can see different ways to play. In CS you learn about proper smoking and angles really quick when there are players who can actually push/retake. I'm an awful chess player but I body basically anybody who wants to play against me casually because I play with a GM and NM socially. These kind of interactions are made through integration into communities which have been lost with dedicated servers.

SBMM only works accurately in solo/1v1 games because you are the sole factor. There are no team comps, boosted players, or other meta stuff to screw with the system. Skill alone can carry you only so far. Progressing beyond your "tier" requires practice and learning which universal matchmaking makes it more difficult to do within the game. I like that the matches are always even but I do notice a lot of stagnation.
 

supernova8

Member
I think the last time I genuinely enjoyed an "online shooter" (on console) was Rainbow Six Vegas/Vegas 2 online coop terrorist hunt on the hardest difficulty, unlocking the new outfits/armor and weapons. (Sure it's not PvP, sue me).

I really don't know why they had to fuck up Rainbow Six by making it into basically just Siege, which is not really Rainbow Six. It's a fairly generic e-sports shooter (with good execution) released by Ubisoft and conveniently given the Rainbow Six title.

Remember when Rainbow Six actually had a proper fucking single player beyond "training missions".

Dickheads, the lot of them.
 
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Kupfer

Member
I think the last time I genuinely enjoyed an "online shooter" (on console) was Rainbow Six Vegas/Vegas 2 online coop terrorist hunt on the hardest difficulty, unlocking the new outfits/armor and weapons. (Sure it's not PvP, sue me).
Dude, now I have flashbacks of endless tries of beating Mudertown back on the 360, thanks for that.

But yeah, the game was awesome and shifted from being really sneaky and stealthy as possible to "I know this level inside out by now, pack myself with kevlar plates, assault rifle and plenty of ammo and fuck these terrorists to the ground". Good times back then, playing this via system link with my buddy in the same room.
 
SBMM is great in a competitive game.

Problem is COD isn't much of a competitive game. In fact the most fun you'll get out of COD is maxing out kill streaks, and that was a lot of fun in the "soft" SBMM days, but it won't actually happen in a competitive lobby. S&D was kinda competitive but compared to say Siege? Gimme a break.

So now it's kind of a game where you can round up a full stack and pubstomp a bunch of solos while getting the occasional sweatfest against a competing stack... Or you could be a bit of a solo potato and play against potatos having your fun with your 0.9k/d camping corners, and occasionally getting thrown to a full stack for obliteration, or you can just go play a better designed game that's satisfying to play.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Also, for the people who says git gud:



These matches (except Battlefront2) are screenshots from playing this year.

Now, with MW19:



A KD of 1.06 and a win loss ratio at 0.98 might be "fair sbmm", but I never really feel good. I dont feel I get rewarded for being good.

I dont want to dominate noobs, but I keep feeling I am not really good at playing the game because of the sbmm.

In the games I rock in I can still be shit. I often get good matches because I am better than the average person in here, but in MW19 I feel like I am always in the bottom of people playing in the matches.

If theres a ranked play in the game and sbmm casual play, then what is the difference between the two?

That you are aware you play ranked when signing up for ranked, and unaware of actually playing ranked when you signed up for casual?
 

supernova8

Member
Dude, now I have flashbacks of endless tries of beating Mudertown back on the 360, thanks for that.

But yeah, the game was awesome and shifted from being really sneaky and stealthy as possible to "I know this level inside out by now, pack myself with kevlar plates, assault rifle and plenty of ammo and fuck these terrorists to the ground". Good times back then, playing this via system link with my buddy in the same room.
Yeah me and my friends used to do it with arbitrary rules like:

- not taking cover behind stuff other than crouching
- headshots only
- pistols only

etc.

Also, going off on another nostalgic tangent, but remember Battlefield 2 where it actually took time to level up to get certain guns. I remember when I first started and saw a medic with a G36C and was like "shiiiiit".

Now everything just feels so same-y or games with established good levelling up mechanics either throw them out the window or ruin them in some other way.

I don't understand why developers cannot realize that the reason Battlefield 3 and 4 were popular is that they were basically BF2 but with way better visuals, controls, and added destruction. All I (and probably a lot of people) really want now is the next jump from BF4 (and no it absolutely was not BF2042).

Kind crazy how much progress there was between BF2 (2005) and BF3 (2011; 6 years) and then how little progress there is between BF4 (2013) an BF2042 (2021; 7 years). It's like "what the fuck have they been doing all this time?!"
 
your crying about battlefield and cod...yet you play cod...how about play decent online shooters like insurgency ,squad , ground branch or ready or not.
 

Kupfer

Member
Yeah me and my friends used to do it with arbitrary rules like:

- not taking cover behind stuff other than crouching
- headshots only
- pistols only

etc.

Also, going off on another nostalgic tangent, but remember Battlefield 2 where it actually took time to level up to get certain guns. I remember when I first started and saw a medic with a G36C and was like "shiiiiit".

Now everything just feels so same-y or games with established good levelling up mechanics either throw them out the window or ruin them in some other way.

I don't understand why developers cannot realize that the reason Battlefield 3 and 4 were popular is that they were basically BF2 but with way better visuals, controls, and added destruction. All I (and probably a lot of people) really want now is the next jump from BF4 (and no it absolutely was not BF2042).

Kind crazy how much progress there was between BF2 (2005) and BF3 (2011; 6 years) and then how little progress there is between BF4 (2013) an BF2042 (2021; 7 years). It's like "what the fuck have they been doing all this time?!"
Yep, we're stuck.

I find that games have felt the same for the last 10 years. Visually, I don't need that big of a jump when I look at the last games of the old generation. Ghost of Tsushima, TLOU Part II, RDR2 are all games that still look top notch today. It bothers me more that devs are resting on old formulas of success. We had GTA IV on the PS360 in 2008, which, resolution and framerate aside, offered such a wide range of interactivity with the game world that games even today can't match. In 2007 there was Assassins Creed, a game that shone with new ideas and exciting gameplay. Gears of War ushered in the era of 3rd person cover shooters in 2006, and with Uncharted from 2007 and Tomb Raider from 2013 have since been a current 3rd person adventure genre. Killzone 2 was a scenic highlight in 2009. The slow gameplay, the heavy weapons, the hit feedback from enemies, the muzzle flashes as a dynamic light source, I sat in front of it with my mouth open. Of course, a CoD 4 Modern Warfare and Battlefield Bad Company 2 can't be missed, titles that simply gave the series a new benchmark. God of war, Far Cry 2, Shadow of the Colossus, Dark Souls ... I could probably list dozens more games that are the foundation of our current games.

The decade that followed 2006 was just bursting with new ideas, big new IPs, and (console) games that felt new and innovative.

It feels like the vast majority of today's blockbuster games are just a pretty knock-off of the games I listed. It rarely knocks my socks off these days because a game comes up with something new. I would especially like to see a big step towards more advanced and believable A.I. and physics simulations - there has to be more. As I said, purely visually we are at a point that is sufficient - of course there is room for improvement - but the gameplay is still too often 15 years behind. Unfortunately, we've gotten used to being served rehashed fare after the umpteenth Far Cry, the umpteenth AC, 10 years of GTA5, 500 remastered versions of games from "the good old days", when these games were still innovative; it's not for nothing that remastered / remakes sell so well.

That said, I'm simply bored and annoyed by most modern games. I stick to the handful of games that give me value, where I feel like I understand more and get better over time as I build and apply my skills (and by skills that I don't mean perks or attachements or anything, but gamesense and tactical superiority) and I now avoid those games that are supposed to keep you hooked, like a slot machine, in order to trigger short-term feelings of happiness, only to make you dig deeper into your pocket afterwards.
 

GenericUser

Member
Altough you're right and I feel your frustration, rethink your last sentence.
You guys are just sick and tired of the same old cheese that has been served to you by the big publishers for years. There are other games out there, aside from CoD, BF and Halo that don't fall into this pattern.
Look around, expand your horizons, play the games that are worth playing and most importantly, that are fun.
Many have already been mentioned here.
No, you are missing the point. Some of us don't want to expand their horizon. Some of us just want scammy SBMM practices to go away.

It's becoming blatantly obvious, that SBMM exists only to entice dlc purchases and other anti consumer bullshit.

EDIT: COD MW2 (2022) would be perfectly fine if it didn't include SBMM imo.
 
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Kupfer

Member
No, you are missing the point. Some of us don't want to expand their horizon. Some of us just want scammy SBMM practices to go away.

It's becoming blatantly obvious, that SBMM exists only to entice dlc purchases and other anti consumer bullshit.

EDIT: COD MW2 (2022) would be perfectly fine if it didn't include SBMM imo.
No I see the problem. I used to and liked to play CoD as well. But these practices won't disappear if people are crying in a forum but still play these games on a daily basis.

Think About It GIF by Identity


Since we can only effect change with, or rather without, the use of our wallets, I have had to withdraw from games that I no longer wish to support until an improvement occurs.
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
Its what happens when everyone starts designing their multiplayer games around e-sports, there was a time when being fun was the top priority.

Between the increased focus on competitiveness, egregious tactics designed to suck up your time in order to reach your wallet eventually, and overly sanitized enviroments that make you afraid to even turn your mic on, finding enjoyment in these games is just becoming increasingly hard.
In fact, from what i see, most people play these games not because they enjoy them but either from peer pressure or out of habit.

If you want to have fun with multiplayer nowadays, you need friends to play with. Find a gang you're confortable to play, be it with online or offline acquaintces, then pick a game you all think you might enjoy. Though i guess even that may be hard since the average person is only willing to try 'whats popular'.
 
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Fortnite is actually the only kind of shooter game I play these days and that said...I rarely play it. Just the odd time for a bit of fun. I don't care how long I live i just want to go in and shoot about for a bit.

I used to be obsessed with CoD + Battlefield but haven't enjoyed them for a LONG time. I got bored of CoD after the first Black Ops came out almost 12 years ago. The last battlefield I somewhat enjoyed was BF4 but all I ever did in it was play in the BF3 maps. BF3 was the last good Battlefield game for me. I played the ever loving shit out that game and Battlefield 2 before it.

I tried getting into CS:GO and Valorant but the learning curve is insane. I was getting wrecked by people sniped me from half way across the map. You need stupid fast reaction/reflexes to play those games. They are also toxic as fuck. Also was into Overwatch for a while and tried going back to it but so many new characters are out and I don't really know what I'm doing anymore.
 
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The Alien

Member
To get my gaming fix i play single player and online co-op or private multiplayer with a crew of known friends.

I used to enjoy online competitive multiplayer but cheating has become so rampant and obvious (and apparently easy) that it's much more game-interest ending for me than getting my ass kicked by better players (see Halo Infinite).
 

tygertrip

Member
There are many times in serve browsers where before or after a match I'd just spectate and chat, get to know these players and how they got so good. I'd come back to the same server days, weeks, months or even years later and the same people I know and recognize would be there

You enter a matchmaking game, you play with those guys for a few hours, and you never fucking see them again. Wasn't the whole point of online multi-player the ability to play with other people? With matchmaking I don't feel like I'm doing that, i feel like I'm playing with bots
Dude… I used to always play on the same couple of Quake servers back in the day. I know EXACTLY what you mean. These kids today don’t know what they are missing. Imagine thinking using a browser list is too complicated and unfair! Fucking sad.
 

tygertrip

Member
I add: they removed deathmatch from Doom Eternal and put in some weird shitty mode that nobody understands or wants to play. Are devs retarded nowadays?
I really just want a call of duty like they made it in the old days. Nothing more. I'm a very simple person.

EDIT: I've seen that the old call of dutys are available on xbox via backwards compatibility. Is there an active player base? Did they do something about the cheaters ruining these old titles?
LOL. It blew my mind that the new Dooms don’t have old-fashioned deathmatch. FFS, that is where DM originated!
 
>Hates when he goes against other good players via sbmm because they kill him fast

>Wants to be matched against other bad players so he can clean the floor with them

🤔🤔

That being said, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Have you tried Hell Let Loose or Isonzo?
 
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TheGecko

Banned
All these complaints about SBMM are hilarious. Moaning you don't want to get whipped but you're ok with going in and whipping other players? Git Gud son!
 

Wildebeest

Member
It is no secret what modern FPS are missing that causes them to blow hard.

Server browser. Third party servers not run by the publisher. Full mod support.

SBMM is no alternative for community. It only serves people who want total sweatlord anonymity until they get to the top levels and play the same few "elite" players all day. Gatcha and GaaS is no alternative for grassroots community content which makes the game feel alive and worth caring about.
 
Oh Mike, you are so right.

I'm out of business since Gears of War 2.
Go and play the little goldnuggets. These good games a typically Battlefield Player didn't recognize because there was no Trailer with Tornados.....
 

Livingskeletons

If I pulled that off, would you die?
Console mulitplayer FPS's are in a weird place for sure. It seems the old guard of Battlefield/Halo/COD have been slipping in quality in recent years. I'm curious how the rise of Battle Royales and Sim Shooters like Hell Let Loose and Insurgency Sandstorm will influence the console mulitplayer landscape
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Console mulitplayer FPS's are in a weird place for sure. It seems the old guard of Battlefield/Halo/COD have been slipping in quality in recent years. I'm curious how the rise of Battle Royales and Sim Shooters like Hell Let Loose and Insurgency Sandstorm will influence the console mulitplayer landscape
Battle Royale has already impacted it negatively by focusing alot on the genre.
 
I don't really want to deal with battlepasses and unlocks in shooters. I could care less about driving a neon tank, or having danglies from a gun.

I also think shooters are largely trash right now.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
How is COD 4 Remastered btw? Still alot of players?
On xbox you find a match within seconds.

It's the most popular of the old cods. No matter if its morning midday or night no problem finding matches. It is only in team deathmatch normal, but better than nothing.
 

8BiTw0LF

Gold Member
SBMM should only be part of ranked playlists. Pubs is for having fun and somehow all the big devs "forgot" about that - or they catered to the low end playerbase so they would keep getting pleb matches and invest in their game.

Back in the day I loved being destroyed by someone on the opposite team, especially if it were someone "famous" and he/she had a youtube I could watch myself being trashed afterwards. I also loved to carry a whole team for the win from time to time and with SBMM those moments are lost.

I reckon the reason I got decent at FPS games were because I strived to beat the best players on the opposite teams. Today I don't know how anyone is getting better if they're only playing against similarly skilled players.
 

BadBurger

Is 'That Pure Potato'
I've had good experiences with SBMM, probably because I'm a FPS scrub and it helps those like me, but I totally understand why more competitive players would hate it. I agree with others that devs who use it should also have some kind of pure, old fashioned pub mode where everyone goes in knowing that the kids gloves are coming off, so don't get angry when Pro Gamer Guy uses you for target practice.
 
Something I have noticed is that with team based battle royals some of the satisfaction of fragging someone is gone since you "down" a person. Usually they would explode in gore or ragdoll.

shoot people and they start crawlin?
 

Sensates

Neo Member
Choices? That's the reason I enjoy hero shooters with their number of roles and counterplay options. I find it really fun when the team works together to win objectives against similar competitive opponents, whereas in straight shooters its largely individual skill based and seem boring to me.

I was heavily into Siege until the game got more boring and predictable. Paladins can be sometimes too unbalance or sweaty, now stuck with Overwatch. RIP Lawbreakers.
 

The_Mike

I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Choices? That's the reason I enjoy hero shooters with their number of roles and counterplay options. I find it really fun when the team works together to win objectives against similar competitive opponents, whereas in straight shooters its largely individual skill based and seem boring to me.

I was heavily into Siege until the game got more boring and predictable. Paladins can be sometimes too unbalance or sweaty, now stuck with Overwatch. RIP Lawbreakers.
I really don't like hero shooters. They are often heavy Sci fi or fantasy and you are locked with weapons.

Your preferred character is taken? Too bad play something you don't want to.
 

Drizzlehell

Member
I didn't read the thread because I'm lazy but in the OP you only mentioned the most popular games/genres, so this begs the question whether or not you've tried any of the lesser-known titles at all? I can sympathize with your stance on the current state of online shooters, and I generally dislike the most popular ones out there too (with the exception of Modern Warfare 2019 which I enjoy but only in moderation). But there are some other options out there that are pretty fun.

World War 3 is a pretty decent alternative to Battlefield style games, and it has a much better community/player base that actually attempts to play normally instead of griefing or cheating constantly. And of the more arena-style shooters I find myself coming back to Splitgate and Quake Champions quite often, although Quake Champions is hard to recommend unless you're a veteran, because servers in those games are populated exclusively by hardcore geeks who have been playing this shit since 1999.

But other than that, I honestly prefer to play PvE types of games these days because once you get old enough that you're simply unable to spend 90% of your day playing video games, it's kinda impossible to keep up with the younger players and it sucks. But that's life for you, lol.
 
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