martino
Member
nice ad hominem dodge
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nice ad hominem dodge
Reindeer
Member
That's what Sony said, but there was info out there that sated that PS4 cost $380 to build. And only a few months laters Sony came out and said they're no longer selling at loss, which means it was either a lie or the initial loss was extremely minimal.
Massive loss I don't think it be much more of a loss than they eat on X going for 350 daily. I don't think there will be a big difference in cost between the X and lockheart. The X has and expensive cooling solution that cancels out the SSD. The lockheart chip will be very small if it is 4tf probably 250mm. That balances out the more expensive process. The ram will be more expensive so it might be a little more costly to produce but not much. I don't see the point in the X when lockheart would be same cost to make and quickly get cheaper with scales of economy since it be a high volume product unlike the X.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Or there is no Lockhart.
And it's just a slim Xbox One X
DaGwaphics
Member
Sony and MS pay for wafers and a licensing fee to AMD, they don't pay retail. The only thing that matters to them is size of the dies and yields, what's on there is immaterial to their costs.
Unlikely, without a die shrink on the APU, and why do that when you have newer tech that's not limited by the old cpus.
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schaft0620
Member
I was at that location last week during the NY Video Game Awards. I 100% assure you nothing is happening at that location. It's VERY small.
Reindeer
Member
I'm not sure, some reports concluded they were actually selling at profit and it was just a PR statement. They also came out few months later saying they no longer sell at loss. Even if there was a loss, it must have been very small.
Captain Hero
The Spoiler Soldier
Agnostic2020
Member
In 2013 around this time you had no idea about ps4 what so ever. Now u know ps5 features and DS5 features . Just a little patience man
Reindeer
Member
That's the thing, but some people think of retail prices when it comes to console parts.
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TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Yeah I'm just not convinced there is another Sku, why bother?
bitbydeath
Gold Member
Not sure either but MS made a point of not discontinuing it for at least one - two years after next-gen arrives so there will be a difference between the two.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
I’d believe the word out of the horses mouth over a ‘report’ that is making guesses.
Reindeer
Member
I didn't completely dismiss that they sold at loss. Again, they said in May 2014 they no longer sell at loss, so the initial loss couldn't have been that great if in few months they were either breaking even or selling at profit.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Lockhart at $300 seems like a stretch. I’m thinking $350 if PS5 is $400.
Or maybe even $400 if PS5 and SeX are $500.
Who knows. Depends if Lockhart is really 4TF as rumours say.
Or maybe even $400 if PS5 and SeX are $500.
Who knows. Depends if Lockhart is really 4TF as rumours say.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
2019 PS5 = Oberon RDNA1 @ 1.8GHz
2020 PS5 = Oberon RDNA1.5 @ 2.0GHz
2020 PS5 = Oberon RDNA1.5 @ 2.0GHz
Reindeer
Member
Agreed, Lockhart's price could very much depend on PS5.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Ya.
Lockhart 300, PS5 400, SeX 500 sounds like a nice utopian pricing scheme, but really comes down to what each systems power is, and whether Sony or MS care for $50 bumps. When it gets to prices that high it seems like it’s $100 bumps at a time.
bitbydeath
Gold Member
PS4 Pro is $400.
Sony is the run away leader they can price their mid generation refresh how they wish. The pro is hardly worth 399.99 but since Sony is dominating it becomes the price. The market dominator can dictate prices to a degree
bitbydeath
Gold Member
So you’re expecting it to drop $200 in price at PS5’s launch?
Investor9872
Member
Give us more of the "best timeline" storyline!
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
You would think MS has already a plan outlined for pricing regardless of what the competition is doing.
Same with Specs and everything else.
Seems some people think MS has had a spy in Sony HQ and has got a plan for price and power based on Sony's plans.
Something which is pretty evident no one knows.
Probably why Sony keeps skipping E3, it was a source for leaks.
saintjules
Member
I think it would make sense for a permanent drop once PS5 hits. Knocking it down to $249 is my prediction.
01011001
Banned
it doesn't matter if the PS4 was sold at a loss, what you have to keep in mind is that even at the time it released it only had GPU capabilities lower than that of a mid range PC card in the $200 spectrum (you could get a 2.4-ish Tflop AMD card back then for that price)
let's say MS and Sony will go a similar route this gen, then we can look up current AMD cards at that range and see what we get.
we are barely getting above 6TF at that price range from AMD at this very moment.
and now add the fact that we also need to account for a supposed state of the art SSD, we need 8 Zen 2 CPU cores, RayTracing technology and we need at least 16GB of GDDR6
let's be generous and say that in this price range by the end of the year we will get an RDNA GPU that can reach 8TF and we would have a $400 box.
if one or both of the next gen systems have higher specs than that you can say goodbye to the $400 price range. the question is are they comfortable doing that? that's the ultimate question here... will they go above $400, will they stay at $400 but sell at a loss, will that stay at $400 and have a console that can be sold without a loss?
let's say MS and Sony will go a similar route this gen, then we can look up current AMD cards at that range and see what we get.
we are barely getting above 6TF at that price range from AMD at this very moment.
and now add the fact that we also need to account for a supposed state of the art SSD, we need 8 Zen 2 CPU cores, RayTracing technology and we need at least 16GB of GDDR6
let's be generous and say that in this price range by the end of the year we will get an RDNA GPU that can reach 8TF and we would have a $400 box.
if one or both of the next gen systems have higher specs than that you can say goodbye to the $400 price range. the question is are they comfortable doing that? that's the ultimate question here... will they go above $400, will they stay at $400 but sell at a loss, will that stay at $400 and have a console that can be sold without a loss?
Hawking Radiation
Member
Please bear in mind that this game was done off a 1.8TF GPU and a shit tier mobile CPU.
Can you even imaging something north of 10TF and a desktop class CPU running this game.
FAARRKKK !!!
ANIMAL1975
Member
Ar¢tos
Member
The BoM was just a bit under the retail price, it was impossible to sell at profit at launch when you consider distribution cost and retailer's margins.
Reindeer
Member
Fast recovery!
bitbydeath
Gold Member
So $99 for the original PS4?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup.
Its always been like this when comparing pcs and consoles.
pc gamers like to bring up weak consoles holding back gaming, yet pcs are the ones where a game can still run on an old spec rig with windows 7.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Best gaf thread in recent times. And the longer it goes with dead silence from Sony the better!
Reindeer
Member
I think 299 for Pro and 199 for Slim sounds about right.
Insane Metal
Member
Chromata
Member
Hawking Radiation
Member
This is building hype and its working. The less Sony says, the more the hype builds.
For once i actually like the silence even though i feel im going crazy each day. But when Sony starts to show what they're working on, its going to be a social media nuke and i'm sure there will also be many surprises.
For once i'd like to go into this reveal blind, not knowing anything and being blown away by what will be on display. Can't wait.
Jason said they "entertained" the idea at beginning of 2017 but were always set to 2020. I remember Jason debunking SemiAccurate back in March 2018 when they said it will be released in 2019.
Hawking Radiation
Member
LMFAO. Not only do i find your response funny but i love that avatar. SOONY is exactly perfect since every insider and his dog is saying we will hear something 'soon'STFU
LMFAO
Okami Haundo
Member
Oh god yeah. I would have bought a Pro long ago if Sony was willing to drop the price. Lowest I've seen it was around $300, but even that was still a bit much for me. At least when we're this close to PS5.
It's why I just settled on selling my PS4 for now. I'll just catch up on the games from this year once I get PS5.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
All respects to Schreir, but he is just one person and not 100% correct. If other people are speculating things you don't like hearing, at least consider the fact that some of us are doing this not out of spite or dumb console warring, but because we've been following developments on this stuff long enough to arrive at some conclusions.
Myself personally, there is a lot of circumstantial and contextual stuff from the past year or so which have led me to my conclusions so far. Also you are misinterpreting Shu's comments; he was referring to PlayStation consoles when mentioning that quote, not competitor offerings. And to route back to not just Schreir but a lot of insiders actually, always keep in mind that we do not know the full context of what they have been told, such as when they were told, who told them such things, or the position of the people who've told them (not all employees at companies have the same access level of stuff like next-gen system specs. Some teams at big companies may not even be working on next-gen projects so they wouldn't need to know upper-level next-gen details other teams would know).
Basically, there's way too many variables even in terms of rather solid insiders who have some sort of vetting to them, to take what they are mentioning as 100% accurate. What we CAN take as being more or less accurate, however, is hard data like benchmark testing data leaks, photos of next-gen system components, new company hires/departures and their positions, fab wafer allocation numbers by company (AMD, for example) for a given process, and official reports from companies or technical analysis from looking at financial quarterly reports and stated company production target goals.
That is solid data, and it can either be put out officially or data-mined from people who have the means and time to data-mine it. And that is the main source of my own personal speculation. Same for many others; we can't help if all of that plus circumstantial patterns in rumors or event the past year or so, lead to a certain conclusion. It just is what it is
Why were they still testing Oberon at 2GHz as late as June 2019 then? That doesn't add up whatsoever.
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Niked
Member
Good guess and very much true. So 2020 PS5 +13tf?2019 PS5 = Oberon RDNA1 @ 1.8GHz
2020 PS5 = Oberon RDNA1.5 @ 2.0GHz
Hawking Radiation
Member
Get well soon mate. We can't play all these new upcoming PS5 games ourselves haha
xool
Member
iirc the narrative from Klee was the [alleged] delay was due to getting back.compat. to work .. though how he would know - thought his source was just a game dev. probably just rumour mill.
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Reindeer
Member
Agreed. Testing a supposed 2019 release chip in middle of 2019 does not make sense whatsoever. Either this was a test of the old chop to see how far they could push it or it is the actual PS5 chip.
Moses85
Member
Pro was here in Germany 239 EUR, 3 weeks ago. I paid 130€ for a new Slim with 1TB
Thinking about price sony knows that $£€399 is the sweet spot. I can totally see it hitting that price, especially so considering how fast tech moves forward these days even if its sold at a loss within a year it should be getting sold at a profit.
In a ideal world we should be able to afford all the consoles, but we cant and sony knows this hence why they like that 399 price point they know its affordable and can create a powerful console within that price range.
I'd by both if I could but when works cuts over half your hours its limiting me to one
going from 1200 to 600 a month is not fun
In a ideal world we should be able to afford all the consoles, but we cant and sony knows this hence why they like that 399 price point they know its affordable and can create a powerful console within that price range.
I'd by both if I could but when works cuts over half your hours its limiting me to one
going from 1200 to 600 a month is not fun- Status