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Ninja Theory: Big, but believable. See how they brought the giant troll to life in Hellblade 2

anthony2690

Banned
‘Heights it will never meet’

That’s some special kind of hater energy.

Not sure how you’ve followed the ‘hype’ but don’t know that the budget, team size and scope are expanded over the original.




All this from a brief gameplay demo?
Hater energy? What are you insinuating... 😂

& As someone who follows Xbox on twitter, unfortunately you come across the most unsavoury console warriors from either side.

People are hyping this game up to the stratosphere, heights I can imagine it will never reach. ( The more people hype a game up, it becomes harder for it to match the hype, regardless of the game, as people build unrealistic expectations)

Anyway, I like Ninja Theory, I love what they did with Enslaved and DmC, didn't like Heavenly sword or hellblade too much.

I would obviously like to be wrong about hellblade 2, as it just means it will be another game for me to enjoy on my subscription :)

But I'm kinda expecting more off the same, but a LOT prettier.
 

Matsuchezz

Member
Ninja theory is an small studio. I see that they have now a motion capture studio or at least they are renting one. On hellblade they were doing the mocap in-house with homemade stuff. They are really good at telling stories. I hope they improve the gameplay department. I had fun with both enslaved and heavenly sword.
 
What's the gameplay in this one? You walk slowly for 5 meters, trigger cutscene, 0 interactivity for few minutes, walk few more meters and another cutscene? What are these developers thinking? Gaming is so unique and yet all they want to do is make movies.

Even without context of the story or where that 5 (only 5!) minutes of gameplay is at in the entire game, you can use common sense and know that your objective is to go find the giant and burn it while it's in its sleeping state (Why? We don't know yet). When it wakes up prematurely, it will kill everyone..so you have to retreat (whilst attacking it with spears to slow it down), leading it to the fire trap you set outside the cave (because it can be burned, remember?). Then it's revealed that as you inflict more damage it cries out to Senua for help (Why? We don't know yet).

That might be the beginning of the game for all we know. If it is, it'd be a hell of an introduction.

Imagine watching 5 minute clips from the first (literal) 40 minutes of The Last of Us 2 during which you do nothing but walk/ride while the characters talk to each other, trigger cutscenes with more talking, open some drawers and have a meaningless snowball fight. "Where's the gameplay there" without context?
 

MidGenRefresh

*Refreshes biennially
...you do nothing but walk/ride while the characters talk to each other, trigger cutscenes with more talking, open some drawers and have a meaningless snowball fight...

That's pretty much The Last of Us II that I've experienced. I was fed up after reaching the first area in Seattle.
 

CamHostage

Member
So, for somebody more technically-minded, what's the merger process between the mocap here and the Ziva Dynamics AI-assisted animation systems mentioned earlier regarding this character? Am I reading right that the mocap done for the keyframes, and then Ziva FX was used for the skin and musculature?

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/senu...-create-that-40ft-film-quality-troll.1625831/
https://mp1st.com/news/senuas-saga-...rtists-to-create-that-40ft-film-quality-troll
https://zivadynamics.com/blog/senuas-saga-hellblade-ii-gameplay-reveals-character-by-ziva-dynamics

When I first read that whole "1 Month for 40-foot Film-Quality Troll", I thought what they were doing was more an Physics-Based Animation / IK solution, where they built and trained AI to imagine how a real 40-foot-tall being would move and struggle under its own weight and bulk. As in, once you have a big creature like that and have it struggle like a baby for "years" in animation training, eventually you'd have a simulated creature that would know how to roll and stretch its body around to position itself or how much arm strength and pushing of legs it'd take to move its massive body; how a tremendous creature like this with the mass of several elephants would move itself in as natural a way as possible. Once you have a creature that has the "muscle memory" to move in the way that it would know how, you would then add actions you want it to do (crawl through a cave, smash through a barrier) as well as facial animations, and maybe you'd have to tweak things further if the AI's understanding of the action doesn't meet your artistic needs, but otherwise, let the computer do the animation work, because nobody has actually seen a 40-foot giant before, and a computer might know better how it'd physically move than a person could guess.



...But then, they just mocapped the whole scene anyway, and just did the usual thing of slowing down the motion ala old Godzilla films for a "Slow = Giant" effect.

So, for my level of excitement of the technical achievement here, there's some pluses and minuses for me. On one hand, I thought they were doing the giant "for real", not using traditional mocap and keyframed acting/animation to simulate the beast... it's just a guy on the floor, pretending he doesn't have a leg, trying to move like he's made of blubber. That seems pretty normal to me, they've been doing mocap acting for a long time, such as this similar mocap session with a big creature. (Plus, I feel like they really should have built him a "fat suit" or like filled the suit with pennies or something, so that the struggle was real, instead of him puppeteering himself to act like he was heavy.) On the other hand, the fat and muscle and skin simulation is pretty extraordinary on the troll, and although 1 month of 3 staffers' work on one creature seems like a lot (plus all the AI time training itself on understanding the meat physics,) hopefully the time spent on this made further creature designs and enemy encounters move more smoothly once they got through this challenge.
 
I think it's a bit of a stretch calling that a gameplay demo, most of it was cinematic and the giant didn't even register most of the things the character did. There was some gameplay blended in but it wasn't even 50% gameplay.
 
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