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PS4 sold "more than twice as many" units as Xbox One, new court papers show

FergusFrost

Member
Franchises like Street Fighter and Final Fantasy? What about new franchises like Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo? Many Xbox gamers were annoyed these 3rd party games were denied on Xbox. MS is doing what they have to ensure they get content on their platform. It's business.
Final Fantasy is timed, Street Fighter V literally wouldn't have existed without Sony chipping in. Again, incomparable.
 
Your statements are ridiculous in and of themselves, because we literally don't have anything available for sale other than the Series S.
And even this console, often, I see on some discounts
Anyone can literally buy it, right now, in any online store, or even offline.
The same cannot be said for the Xbox series X and Ps5

You work in the field of trade, and you carry such nonsense, knowing that this is a priori incorrect statistics

Seriously?

This post bothered me more than it should have. From your spelling and misinformation, I should have just ignored it but I feel like I have to respond out of obligation to be honest.

First and foremost, you're talking bollocks. Because the Series X and PS5 have been in reasonable supply for quite some time. In store and otherwise. More than when lock down first hit. I'm not going to post information from my employer on GAF and ruin my livelihood but I don't need a random person on a forum who can't even spell correctly to try and tell me what I can find at my fingertips. That only paints a tiny part of the picture but like other users, I think that you're under the understanding that I am speaking about console sales and market share (which PlayStation is still market leader) versus MIND SHARE which, if you read my earlier posts, you will understand. Mind share is the fact that XBOX are trending more often, they're being spoken about more, searched more, there are more news articles coming out about them. And why wouldn't there be? They still attend trade shows, unlike Sony. They're constantly looking for reasons to drop headlines. Whether it's an announcement, an acquisition, a deal, a development. Anything to get people talking.

Also right now, just on a simple check on a few websites. As of this post, see the time in the top left corner, a quick Google search showed me:


These consoles are also easily available second hand through eBay, Cash Converters, CEX etc. And some shops display stock.

  • GAME have the PlayStation 5 in stock. This is mainly in bundle form but I can buy one right now or in store for selected stores with stock.
    • GAME have XBOX Series S and X readily in stock. The Series X is in stock across four different bundles at little more than the RRP and the Series S is readily available.
  • Argos have PlayStation in stock, as the console alone or bundles. They also have stock in store which can be seen by typing your address in and checking it.
    • Argos also have XBOX Series S and Series X readily available in stock.
  • Smyths toy shop have some bundles in stock online and in selected stores.
    • XBOX Series S and Series X are readily in stock online and in store.
  • Amazon have limited PS5 stock but they do have it for sale in various ways.
    • I can buy an XBOX Series S OR a Series X AND have them delivered by 1pm tomorrow.
  • Shopto have several PlayStation 5 bundles in stock.
    • Shopto have series S and Series X readily available in stock.
  • Currys/PC World have PlayStation 5 bundles in stock.
    • XBOX Series S and Series X are readily available.
So on six websites, I CAN buy an XBOX Series X. That's before I look at any shops. PlayStation 5 is harder to get for the console alone but still readily available. That's before even looking at second hand retailers who have ample stock. Baring in mind, Sony have faced significantly more difficult circumstances with supply, it's fair to say that it is definitely market leader but if you can't keep up with the demand and Microsoft continue to make the XBOX a more prosperous proposition, by making games available for an inexpensive and tiny monthly fee, including brand new AAA titles and by acquiring more studios, publishers and IP, then they will be much more in line with Sony. But again, I was talking about mind share, not market share. So see the response below.

So basically, just do a simple Google search and you'll find you might be wrong. I can buy any of these three consoles tomorrow.

Are you in the US by any chance?

Because Xbox outside of the US and UK, Xbox as a brand is basically non existent.

And PS5 has been extremely supply constraint so there is no competition on the next gen front.

Unless MS has an intentional presence outside of these countries, I don't see how they will do better than their previous offerings, unless the US and UK has an exponential increase in population growth during these 5 years.

No, I'm in the UK and I wouldn't say that's entirely true either. There was an article last year that basically showed from an independent market research company that Microsoft is dominating searches with XBOX and thus are very much in pole position for mind share. Which, I would like to emphasise, mind share. I feel like some have misunderstood my point completely that since 2018 after E3, Sony kind of went "fuck it" when it came to attending trade shows, PSX was cancelled already, GamesCom and PGW were not longer being attended etc. They dropped their public presence in the vein of the old arrogant Sony who believe that by simply putting an article out on their blog site or posting a random trailer that they re-capture the lead in mind share which as the evidence shows, isn't true. State of Play videos are sporadic in release and the feedback is mainly negative. Plus Sony's new time frame for major reveals and shows appears to be coming to Black Friday and the holiday season for peak impact letting Microsoft and Nintendo pretty much have most of the year unless the drop a random state of play or make some sort of announcement.

But don't get me wrong, I am aware that mind share and sales are completely different things and I must explicitly emphasise, I never said otherwise, nor am I a fucking moron and thought they were the same thing. PlayStation is ahead in sales at this moment in time and like XBOX, they've both faced significant challenges. XBOX is the console of choice for up to 40 countries in various iterations of the console when last polled and the XBOX does still have a healthy presence in Europe when it continues to grow. Appreciated, it doesn't dominate but it'll very quickly change the landscape with the ABK and Bethesda acquisitions. If they try and acquire Embracer it'll be... yeah, huge.

Sony would sell gang busters of the PS5 now if it was widely and easily available. The only reason Sony haven't increased their lead is the supply chain shortages.

Yeah, very much known fact. Apple caused an initial disruption in the market with lock downs and such. Obviously since then it's been what it is.
 
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And this is precisely the news Microsoft wants out there. It makes their acquisition of Activision Blizzard seem far less dangerous or harmful to competition. PS4 sold more than twice as many units as Xbox One. Good. I've said the fact that PS4 beat Xbox One as badly as it did would all work in Microsoft's favor with regards to the Activision Blizzard deal.

Microsoft's lawyers are very glad websites are reporting on this.
 
I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from. Your example of Halo 4

NPD
Halo 4
1st Month: 2nd
2nd Month: 3rd
3rd Month: 7th

Halo Infinite
1st Month: 2nd
2nd Month: 15th
3rd Month: DID NOT CHART.


Uk
Halo 4
1st Month: 2nd
2nd Month 4th

Halo Infinite
1st month: DID NOT CHART AT ALL

Best selling games of 2012:
Halo 4: 4th

Best selling games of 2021:
Halo Infinite : DID NOT CHART AT ALL

It did not chart on any rolling 12 month chart thereafter either. This even includes the fact that Halo 4 did not have a PC release whereas Infinite did. Halo 4 did well to outsell numerous multiplatform games even though it saw a decline in sales compared to Halo 3. Halo infinite on multiple platforms just sold poorly. It may have sold more than halo 4 on multiple platforms but its sales were not good compared to even low profile games and games with shitty reception like BF2042.
Gamepass.
 
Is anyone suprised buy this???

In the UK the 360 was massively popular. Online was so much better and so the ecosystem was great. Then came the Xbox one announcement (we all know how that went) and the popularity went instantly. Everyone I know last gen went back to the PS4. I didn't know anyone with an Xbox One.

PS5 seems to be THE console to have this gen too (just observational) although the Series X does to be doing much better than last gen. I don't think we will see 360 split shares again. The one reveal was that bad. Series x is a great console imo though.
 
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DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
Final Fantasy is timed, Street Fighter V literally wouldn't have existed without Sony chipping in. Again, incomparable.
Proof final Fantasy is timed? Proof MS wouldn't have worked with Capcom to fund Street Fighter? At this point we have no proof Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo will hit Xbox either because I noticed you left them off. Bottomline is no 3rd party title guaranteed to hit a platform 1st party titles are. MS is doing what they have to to guarantee content for their platform.

Final Fantasy VII R has been a timed 12 month console exclusive since April 2020. 🤷‍♂️
But MS has no right to buy developers because they are getting all these games anyway right? I have a space on my shelf right now for Final Fantasy 7R on Xbox.
 
I'd say buying Bethesda is evidence of learning in a pretty big way.

Yep, we now know Starfield and Elder Scrolls 6, two massive games coming into this gen, are going to be full Xbox exclusive on consoles, which is a pretty damn big deal and something nobody anywhere would have remotely expected entering this generation. I would argue it's just as big, if not bigger, that they're also coming to Game Pass on day one. Toss in Redfall, Arkane's next big game, the big titles coming from Xbox Game Studios, together with Activision Blizzard games going into Game Pass. It honestly won't matter whether or not all Activision Blizzard games are exclusive. Them coming to Game Pass day one effectively free is crazy. It will likely be some time before that's allowed with COD due to contracts, but we all know it's coming.
 

Three

Member
Proof final Fantasy is timed? Proof MS wouldn't have worked with Capcom to fund Street Fighter? At this point we have no proof Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo will hit Xbox either because I noticed you left them off. Bottomline is no 3rd party title guaranteed to hit a platform 1st party titles are. MS is doing what they have to to guarantee content for their platform.


But MS has no right to buy developers because they are getting all these games anyway right? I have a space on my shelf right now for Final Fantasy 7R on Xbox.
If MS had 'worked with capcom to fund it' we would have had a Dead Rising 3 situation on our hands. What makes you think they wouldn't want exclusivity?
Gamepass.
But people told me it increases sales. What happened?
 
But people told me it increases sales. What happened?
You should read what was actually said. From Microsoft, we know that people who use Gamepass generally spend more money on games. And from some indie devs, we know that Gamepass exposure increased their sales. That's basically it.
 

Three

Member
You should read what was actually said. From Microsoft, we know that people who use Gamepass generally spend more money on games. And from some indie devs, we know that Gamepass exposure increased their sales. That's basically it.
You should read that months old thread I linked, people were saying Halo sold decently even with gamepass. Why because they were using these quotes from Phil

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/phil-spencer-game-pass-leads-to-more-game-sales

They were talking about increased game sales not spending.
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
That was four years ago when Gamepass was quite new. Now way more people have Gamepass.
Which is what many of us said would happen. Over time, sales would decline and charts won't chart... even less so with legs. People back then pushed back against that and took his words as forever gospel, don't play. Now the goalposts shift with the tides of change.

One of the main reasons FH5 expansion is not on GP. They have to recoup spend somewhere. Business be business. I feel we will see more monetization in those day one games for just that reason. On both services (GP and PS+).
 
Which is what many of us said would happen. Over time, sales would decline and charts won't chart... even less so with legs. People back then pushed back against that and took his words as forever gospel, don't play. Now the goalposts shift with the tides of change.

One of the main reasons FH5 expansion is not on GP. They have to recoup spend somewhere. Business be business. I feel we will see more monetization in those day one games for just that reason. On both services (GP and PS+).
First party software sales aren't that important for both Sony and Microsoft. They are a tiny amount of the total revenue.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
First party software sales aren't that important for both Sony and Microsoft. They are a tiny amount of the total revenue.
Eddie Murphy Yes GIF
 

FergusFrost

Member
Proof final Fantasy is timed? Proof MS wouldn't have worked with Capcom to fund Street Fighter? At this point we have no proof Deathloop and Ghostwire Tokyo will hit Xbox either because I noticed you left them off. Bottomline is no 3rd party title guaranteed to hit a platform 1st party titles are. MS is doing what they have to to guarantee content for their platform.


But MS has no right to buy developers because they are getting all these games anyway right? I have a space on my shelf right now for Final Fantasy 7R on Xbox.

Lmao no proof about deathloop and ghostwire beyond MS literally owning the IPs?

Image above is taken from one of the Intergrade trailers. Its timed, everyone knows its timed. No one knows how long. Now stop being stupid.
 
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DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
If MS had 'worked with capcom to fund it' we would have had a Dead Rising 3 situation on our hands. What makes you think they wouldn't want exclusivity?
The argument made was MS was doing something wrong by buying Activision. It was claimed Xbox would get all these games anyway and they don't need to secure content for their platform. I made several examples of 3rd party games NOT hitting Xbox including games who's IP they own. Xbox has not denied content on PlayStation like Sony has with Xbox. Fact.
 
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Three

Member
The argument made was MS was doing something wrong by buying Activision. It was claimed Xbox would get all these games anyway and they don't need to secure content foe their platform. I made several examples of 3rd party games NOT hitting Xbox including games who's IP they own. Xbox has not denied content on PlayStation like Sony has with Xbox. Fact.
The argument being made was that xbox would have had Call Of Duty anyway but Street Fighter 5 was funded by Sony otherwise it wouldn't have existed. The same is true of Dead Rising 3 which MS funded capcom for and is now 'denied' on Playstation. Dead rising 3 remains exclusive much like SF till this day.
 
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DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
The argument being made was that xbox would have had Call Of Duty anyway but Street Fighter 5 was funded by Sony otherwise it wouldn't have existed. The same is true of Dead Rising 3 which MS funded capcom for and is now 'denied' on Playstation. Dead rising 3 remains exclusive much like SF till this day.
The fact remains that 3rd party titles aren't 'coming anyways' as some have claimed. You have yet to prove this to be true despite several 3rd party examples. Your Dead Rising example only further proves my point aside from it being an obviously MUCH smaller IP than Street Fighter or Final Fantasy. I prefer a company to fully invest by actually owning the IP and studio over 'blocking rights' other companies employ. The Activision purchase is a pro for Xbox over a con for other platforms.
 

Three

Member
That was four years ago when Gamepass was quite new. Now way more people have Gamepass.
Cool, maybe you should have joined me in correcting those people by mentioning this was only true 4 yrs ago and it leads to less sales as is the case you are making here for Halo but really who am I kidding, you were probably thumbs upping their posts.

Edit: Oh hello
So Halo released in December 2021and your excuse for low sales is gamepass but May 2022 you were on team increases sales with no evidence whatsoever of decreased sales:
Several devs have expressed how Gamepass increased their sales. Afaik, not a single dev has claimed the opposite. So one side has facts, while the other side has wishful thinking.
Which way are we flip-flopping now?
 
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Edit: Oh hello
So Halo released in December 2021and your excuse for low sales is gamepass but May 2022 you were on team increases sales with no evidence whatsoever of decreased sales:

Which way are we flip-flopping now?
Have you found a dev who claimed that Gamepass decreased their sales?

Btw, sales = revenue. A dev ultimately won't care whether the revenue comes from people who buy their games or from Microsoft who pays them for putting their game on Gamepass.
 

Three

Member
Have you found a dev who claimed that Gamepass decreased their sales?

Btw, sales = revenue. A dev ultimately won't care whether the revenue comes from people who buy their games or from Microsoft who pays them for putting their game on Gamepass.

You're claiming it decreased game sales of Halo. Please don't be coy by pretending you were talking about revenue previously. You were replying directly to somebody who was referring to units, how there was a notion that it increases unit sales, and mentioned 'game sales' specifically. Nobody was talking about mtx bucks. If anything people were arguing that gp is suited to mtxs but I'm sure you argued against that too.
 
You're claiming it decreased game sales of Halo. Please don't be coy by pretending you were talking about revenue previously. You were replying directly to somebody who was referring to units, how there was a notion that it increases unit sales, and mentioned 'game sales' specifically. Nobody was talking about mtx bucks. If anything people were arguing that gp is suited to mtxs but I'm sure you argued against that too.
I'm not talking about MTX. I'm talking about money from Gamepass. It makes no real difference to a dev how he gets the money.
 

Neofire

Member
Have you found a dev who claimed that Gamepass decreased their sales?

Btw, sales = revenue. A dev ultimately won't care whether the revenue comes from people who buy their games or from Microsoft who pays them for putting their game on Gamepass.
I can assure you any developer that chooses to have their game on GP isn't allowed to say if it is hurting their sales and make MS look bad lol.
 

Three

Member
I'm not talking about MTX. I'm talking about money from Gamepass. It makes no real difference to a dev how he gets the money.

Come on man. What's 'money from gamepass'? some lump sum from MS to the dev? Are you really going to play dumb and pretend people were referring to that in that thread?

Here are snippets of the conversation in the Outriders thread where it lost money that lead to that reply of yours:

The Gamepass effect.
You think MS would've gave them more money if they asked nicely?

This is the position publishers will find themselves more and more as people are being taught not to buy games.
Anything financial related to GamePass is such a shit show on this forum. Anything to not talk about videogames, I swear.
It's a retaliation to the bullshit PR people have been repeating over and over again here without any evidence to back up their claims . Its to counter balance the notion that Gamepass increases game sales.
Several devs have expressed how Gamepass increased their sales. Afaik, not a single dev has claimed the opposite. So one side has facts, while the other side has wishful thinking.

Are you honestly now trying to say MS paying lump sums was the bullshit PR people were repeating over and over and disputing? Come on man just stop with the nonsense.

Literally everyone was talking about game sales. Even mentioning Halo.

As for Halo Infinite I can assure you it didn't sell better than previous Halo games.
The previous would be Halo 5, did Infinite sell worse than 5 for the same timespan? How can you assure me of that?
In game sales yes. In microtransactions probably not (it's f2p and on other platforms).

If your idea was MS can just chuck them some money anyway so game sales don't matter nobody would argue but we all know that wasn't what people were referring to when mentioning the bullshit PR going around about GP increasing game sales.
 
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Come on man. What's 'money from gamepass'? some lump sum from MS to the dev? Are you really going to play dumb and pretend people were referring to that in that thread?

Here are snippets of the conversation in the Outriders thread where it lost money that lead to that reply of yours:







Are you honestly now trying to say MS paying lump sums was the bullshit PR people were repeating over and over and disputing? Come on man just stop with the nonsense.

Literally everyone was talking about game sales. Even mentioning Halo.





If your idea was MS can just chuck them some money anyway so game sales don't matter nobody would argue but we all know that wasn't what people were referring to when mentioning the bullshit PR going around about GP increasing game sales.
Idk what "people" were referring to, all I know is that we had Microsoft say that Gamepass users spend more money on games and that we had some indie devs say that Gamepass increased their sales.
 

Three

Member
Idk what "people" were referring to, all I know is that we had Microsoft say that Gamepass users spend more money on games and that we had some indie devs say that Gamepass increased their sales.
So you replied to that person without reading what they said or any parts of the thread for that matter. Just ignored the context entirely and inserted your own without making it clear what your context is. Makes sense.
 
So you replied to that person without reading what they said or any parts of the thread for that matter. Just ignored the context entirely and inserted your own without making it clear what your context is. Makes sense.
The context of that thread was that Outriders didn't make any profit because of Gamepass. Complete fanboy drivel, as usual.
 
I wonder what's the ceiling for the xbox series consoles? I'm thinking 360 is the peak. A stronger worldwide presence is needed to pass 100m consoles sold. Xbox has never sold that much mainly because of sales lacking in Europe.
 

Three

Member
The context of that thread was that Outriders didn't make any profit because of Gamepass. Complete fanboy drivel, as usual.
Yeah because people were talking about releasing day one on gamepass reducing game sales for publishers, as people will not buy the game anymore. It was one of the high profile third party day one releases on gamepass. People were saying game unit sales were poor due to it and you refuted that claim. You can't just ignore what people were saying and now pretend you were talking about something else though when that's what everyone was talking about and you were saying it increases game sales. Like MS should have paid them a higher lump sum to make more revenue/it viable or something, because you're saying mtxs aren't suited to gamepass either. If you had said MS should have paid a larger lump sum or that it increases exposure for indies nobody would have argued with you but that's not what you were saying. You were arguing with people suggesting it increases sales for publishers and first party. That's what people were talking about in that thread.
 
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Yeah because people were talking about releasing day one on gamepass reducing game sales for publishers, as people will not buy the game anymore. It was one of the high profile third party day one releases on gamepass. People were saying game unit sales were poor due to it and you refuted that claim.
I don't care about unit sales, the thread was about profit.
You can't just ignore what people were saying and now pretend you were talking about something else though when that's what everyone was talking about and you were saying it increases game sales. Like MS should have paid them a higher lump sum to make more revenue/it viable or something, because you're saying mtxs aren't suited to gamepass either. If you had said MS should have paid a larger lump sum or that it increases exposure for indies nobody would have argued with you but that's not what you were saying. You were arguing with people suggesting it increases sales for publishers and first party. That's what people were talking about in that thread.
People were claiming, without evidence, that Gamepass was the reason why the game didn't make any profit. Imagine saying that about a Square Enix game, a publisher who is known for selling millions of copies of games and still not being able to make a profit.
 

Three

Member
I don't care about unit sales, the thread was about profit.

People were claiming, without evidence, that Gamepass was the reason why the game didn't make any profit. Imagine saying that about a Square Enix game, a publisher who is known for selling millions of copies of games and still not being able to make a profit.
I gave you the comments you were replying to. Nobody mentioned profits. They were saying 'game sales' and 'people don't buy games due to gamepass". You were refuting that. Now you're pretending it was something else. If you wanted to talk about "this is square enix we are talking about, making a profit doesn't work with them" or something else you could have just mentioned the context there and then and saved yourself a lot of back and forth but you were clearly talking about increasing game sales.

Funny thing was that you were trying to brand Outriders as a huge success back then and Returnal a failure (because they launched at similar times) before that news came out. Maybe go read the thread some time.
 
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I gave you the comments you were replying to. Nobody mentioned profits. They were saying 'game sales' and 'people don't buy games due to gamepass". You were refuting that. Now you're pretending it was something else. If you wanted to talk about "this is square enix we are talking about, making a profit doesn't work with them" or something else you could have just mentioned the context there and then and saved yourself a lot of back and forth but you were clearly talking about increasing game sales.
Maybe read the thread... https://www.neogaf.com/threads/twea...-of-december-31st-2021.1636268/post-266131316
This is literally the first post I made in that thread.
Funny thing was that you were trying to brand Outriders as a huge success back then and Returnal a failure (because they launched at similar times) before that news came out. Maybe go read the thread some time.
I see you still can't get over the fact that Outriders considerably outsold Returnal.
 

Three

Member
Maybe read the thread... https://www.neogaf.com/threads/twea...-of-december-31st-2021.1636268/post-266131316
This is literally the first post I made in that thread.

I see you still can't get over the fact that Outriders considerably outsold Returnal.
That's your first post defending "the gamepass effect'" not the one replying to somebody else mentioning game sales declining/increasing with a day one release. You could have given your context there: "gamepass reduces game sales but square enix didn't have the forsight to make a lower budget game, add mtxs or ask MS for a larger lump sum to turn a profit"

Ofcourse you wouldnt have said something like that though.

If anything it shows that you still believe it sold a great deal like tomb raiders 38M but failed to make profit. Yet you're here defending Halo's low sales with "the other gamepass effect".
 
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That's your first post defending "the gamepass effect'" not the one replying to somebody else mentioning game sales declining/increasing with a day one release. You could have given your context there: "gamepass reduces game sales but square enix didn't have the forsight to make a lower budget game, add mtxs or ask MS for a larger lump sum to turn a profit"
Here's the second time I'm talking about profit: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/twea...-of-december-31st-2021.1636268/post-266133718

The entire thread is, from my perspective, about the profit angle. That's the thread topic after all.

The one time I addressed game sales, I only repeated what some indie devs have said and haven't claimed anything else.

You're working way too hard to get a gotcha here. It's simply not happening :messenger_blowing_kiss:
 

Three

Member
Here's the second time I'm talking about profit: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/twea...-of-december-31st-2021.1636268/post-266133718

The entire thread is, from my perspective, about the profit angle. That's the thread topic after all.

The one time I addressed game sales, I only repeated what some indie devs have said and haven't claimed anything else.

You're working way too hard to get a gotcha here. It's simply not happening :messenger_blowing_kiss:

You're digging yourself a bigger hole and just can't see it, your post:

SE's expectations were exceeded, especially with the digital version of the game. That SE ultimately couldn't turn a profit with it is their fault alone. We're talking about a publisher who sells tens of millions of games from a certain franchise and still can't turn a profit. But yeah, let's blame Gamepass.

This is again clear confirmation that you were arguing with people about unit sales. Arguing that gamepass does not decrease unit/game sales back then. Evidence that's what people were talking about. You were saying it sold more than expected but didn't turn a profit just to shift blame away. Your perspective wasn't just it didn't turn a profit but that game sales were high because of gamepass.

If you think game sales exceeded projections and the game didn't have microtransactions what made it not turn a profit? 🤷‍♂️

What's the solution:
Lower game budget to reduce cost, mtxs in the game, or larger lump sum from MS/Sony?

This was the context you could have provided. Say game sales decrease but SE could be more competent by doing this, this, or that.
Instead you pretended gamepass doesn't have an effect on sales but actually increases it and that SE are just a shitshow.
Now though you are saying Halo is on gamepass so decreased sales makes sense. You just make contradictory excuses to defend a company.
 
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This is again clear confirmation that you were arguing with people about unit sales. Arguing that gamepass does not decrease unit/game sales back then. Evidence that's what people were talking about. You were saying it sold more than expected but didn't turn a profit just to shift blame away. Your perspective wasn't just it didn't turn a profit but that game sales were high because of gamepass.
No, that's literally what Square Enix said. I'm simply repeating what they were saying.
If you think game sales exceeded projections
That's not what I think, that's what Square Enix said.
and the game didn't have microtransactions what made it not turn a profit? 🤷‍♂️
What made other Square Enix games not turn a profit?
What's the solution:
Lower game budget to reduce cost, mtxs in the game, or larger lump sum from MS/Sony?
The solution in this case was easy: if you're supposedly making a GaaS game, then maybe monetize it like a GaaS.
This was the context you could have provided. Say game sales decrease but SE could be more competent by doing this, this, or that.
Again, SE said their expectations were exceeded.
Instead you pretended gamepass doesn't have an effect on sales but actually increases it
Where exactly? As I said here and in that thread several times, I was talking about profits. Everything that I said about sales was simply a repeat of what either SE said or other indie devs said.
and that SE are just a shitshow.
No lies detected.
Now though you are saying Halo is on gamepass so decreased sales makes sense. You just make contradictory excuses to defend a company.
There is no contradiction between anything I stated as my own opinion.
 

Three

Member
Where exactly? As I said here and in that thread several times, I was talking about profits. Everything that I said about sales was simply a repeat of what either SE said or other indie devs said.

No lies detected.

There is no contradiction between anything I stated as my own opinion.
This is getting tiresome. You said nothing to clarify your poaition in that thread. People were very clearly talking about unit/ game sales and people conditioned into not buying games in that thread and you yourself were talking about SE not turning a profit even on 38M units, and how unit sales, especially digital, exceeded expectations. Clearly talking about unit sales. You knew the topic you were replying to.

Now you're here pretending that when you said this

Several devs have expressed how Gamepass increased their sales. Afaik, not a single dev has claimed the opposite. So one side has facts, while the other side has wishful thinking.

In reply to "The PR bullshit that gamepass increases game sales" what you actually meant was ignore the context of what was being discussed by everyone, but your own context of profits. Also ignore this entire thread of a dev claiming its not made a profit because they don't exist.

That makes sense to you? If that was your context you could have simply given a clear reply at the time by not ignoring what everyone including you were talking about and said what you seem to believe now:

"gamepass decreases game sales but it can still be very profitable as is evident from indie dev statements, SE is just a shitshow"

That would make too much sense.
You're only trying to save face because now you've flip-flopped.
You're saying Halo has low sales due to gamepass now. You were clearly talking about unit sales a lot in that thread don't say you weren't and that you don't know what 'people' were referring to when you clearly replied to them discussing unit sales:

Again, it exceeded SE's expectations. When a publisher is incompetent, they can for example sell 38 million games and still not make a profit. This doesn't make the games less successful, it just shows the incompetence of the publisher. It certainly has nothing to do with Gamepass.


Why completely ignore the context of what everyone, including you, were talking about? Gamepass and its effect on game sales.


 
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This is getting tiresome. You said nothing to clarify your poaition in that thread. People were very clearly talking about unit/ game sales and people conditioned into not buying games in that thread and you yourself were talking about SE not turning a profit even on 38M units, and how unit sales, especially digital, exceeded expectations. Clearly talking about unit sales. You knew the topic you were replying to.

Now you're here pretending that when you said this



In reply to "The PR bullshit that gamepass increases game sales" what you actually meant was ignore the context of what was being discussed by everyone, but your own context of profits. Also ignore this entire thread of a dev claiming its not made a profit because they don't exist.

That makes sense to you? If that was your context you could have simply given a clear reply at the time by not ignoring what everyone including you were talking about and said what you seem to believe now:

"gamepass decreases game sales but it can still be very profitable as is evident from indie dev statements, SE is just a shitshow"

That would make too much sense.
You're only trying to save face because now you've flip-flopped.
You're saying Halo has low sales due to gamepass now. You were clearly talking about unit sales a lot in that thread don't say you weren't and that you don't know what 'people' were referring to when you clearly replied to them discussing unit sales. Why completely ignore the context of what everyone, including you, were talking about? Gamepass and its effect on game sales.


Again, you're trying way too hard. Every single thing you said here has been addressed by me in my previous posts. Have a good one :messenger_smiling_with_eyes:
 
Final Fantasy VII R has been a timed 12 month console exclusive since April 2020. 🤷‍♂️

I think there was an article saying Sony got the deal extended.

Both Sony and Microsoft have been buying studios and throwing money at timed exclusives for years, but Sony has never done anything like this.

Microsoft scooped up two of the industries biggest publishers for no reason other than to keep them off the competition. There is literally no comparison at all, there is no "both sides". If we wake up tomorrow and Sony have bought Capcom, we might have something worth talking about. Until then, nah.

Sony has over the generations done about as much, if not a bit more. So again this is pretty much just Microsoft catching up.

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from. Your example of Halo 4

NPD
Halo 4
1st Month: 2nd
2nd Month: 3rd
3rd Month: 7th

Halo Infinite
1st Month: 2nd
2nd Month: 15th
3rd Month: DID NOT CHART.


Uk
Halo 4
1st Month: 2nd
2nd Month 4th

Halo Infinite
1st month: DID NOT CHART AT ALL

Best selling games of 2012:
Halo 4: 4th

Best selling games of 2021:
Halo Infinite : DID NOT CHART AT ALL

It did not chart on any rolling 12 month chart thereafter either. This even includes the fact that Halo 4 did not have a PC release whereas Infinite did. Halo 4 did well to outsell numerous multiplatform games even though it saw a decline in sales compared to Halo 3. Halo infinite on multiple platforms just sold poorly. It may have sold more than halo 4 on multiple platforms but its sales were not good compared to even low profile games and games with shitty reception like BF2042.

Your comparison doesn't work here because you aren't accounting for the sales of the games ahead of Halo for compared to the sales of the games ahead of Halo Infinite.

McDonalds sold more burgers than Five Guys

No they didn't, real burgers require real beef which only Five Guys serve out of the two.

What do you mean?? The Xbox One absolutely had an awful launch.

So it didn't, by the end of 2013 the Xbox One and PS4 worldwide were only 300k apart and that was with the Xbox releasing in only 13 countries.
 

Three

Member
Your comparison doesn't work here because you aren't accounting for the sales of the games ahead of Halo for compared to the sales of the games ahead of Halo Infinite.
I'm not sure what you mean. You're the one who introduced the comparison to Halo 4 and said it dropped off NPD fast and didn't do well in the UK. Halo 4 didn't drop off the charts like Halo infinite and charted well in the UK. If anything Halo Infinite had less competition because Halo 4 had CoD Black Ops, Assassin's Creed 3 and Dead Space. Last December was baron in comparison.
 
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i feel like people forget how last generation started:

Both sold 1 million in 24 hours

https://www.nbcnews.com/technolog/sony-sells-1-million-playstation-4-units-first-24-hours-2d11603671

https://abcnews.go.com/Technology/m... system is holding its own against Sony's PS4.

By end of the year 2013 Xbox One and PS4 were only 300k apart with Xbox only releasing in Australia, Austria, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Mexico, Spain, United Kingdom, United States and New Zealand

https://venturebeat.com/games/xbox-...ed 3.9 million,comes from the gaming division.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/ps4-sells-4-2-million


Xbox One outselling the 360

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2014/04/17/xbox-one-march-npd/

https://www.vg247.com/xbox-one-selling-more-than-twice-as-fast-as-xbox-360-microsoft-on-npd-data

Xbox one doing better than 360 (at the time) in Germany

https://www.dualshockers.com/ps4-so...rmany-according-to-newly-released-sales-data/

They outpaced the 360 in other countries too but can't find the links right now.

They also had a strong holiday season but that' where it ended. Xbox announced 10 million shipped early November 2014.


<>
But on January 2015 once the holiday months were finished Xbox put this out:

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-shipped-6-6-million-xbox-consoles-during/1100-6424899/

People made the estimate that at least 4 million of that was from the 360 so 14 million Xbox Ones sold minimum.

That's the last time Microsoft gave out Xbox One numbers and the 14 million was guess work.

Sony announced 18.5 million Ps4's at that in that same January, than over 20 million in March.

So assuming 55 million Xbox One sales based on this thread, 15 million of that was within the first year and 4 months.

That means the remaining 40 million averages to Xbox One selling 5 million consoles a year until 2021. It would take Xbox One 3 years after that last press release for Xbox One to sell the same 15 million units it got in just over one year.

It is understandable that if you weren't paying attention to what was going on with Xbox One after January 2015, you would have thought the sales would be higher because the Xbox One and PS4 were actually more competitive with each other before then.

Xbox One devalued the consoles with the holiday 2014 sales, many of their new game projects and several of their third party exclusive deals fell through, Halo MCC was a mess, they had cut back on marketing and barely had any major games released in 2015, that's where the Xbox One died. There were also numerous articles pointing out the technical issues the Xbox One had with multiplats which got much worse in 2015, without many big game releases there was little reason to buy an Xbox One which they had already devalued a couple months earlier, there were still Day one editions in some stores in the US and parts of Europe, there were unsold Kinect bundles on clearance because retailers had to clear them out, they had a mediocre E3 and Gamescom, and many of their new games collected dust on shelves.

Only Titanfall, Halo MCC which was in turmoil at the time, Halo 5, Sunset Overdrive, Ryse, Gears ultimate. and Dead Rising 3 were selling anything before 2016. They made a bet on Rise of the Tomb Raider with timed exclusivity but it only did average.

2016, they announced Scropio, released the Xbox One S, and had Forza Horizon 3, Gears 4. and Dead Rising 3 which stopped the Xbox One from having sales similar to the original Xbox 1, but it was already over.
 

yurinka

Member
Final Fantasy is timed, Street Fighter V literally wouldn't have existed without Sony chipping in. Again, incomparable.
According to Capcom SFV would have existed but its development would have been greenlighted a couple of years later and the project probably wouldn't have been that ambitious. In the deal Sony did put money to help fund the game, did give them half a million for SFV eSport prizes and did fund, outsourced and publish the Ultra SFIV PS4 port.

So assuming 55 million Xbox One sales based on this thread, 15 million of that was within the first year and 4 months.
What is the source of these supposed 55M?
 
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FergusFrost

Member
According to Capcom SFV would have existed but its development would have been greenlighted a couple of years later and the project probably wouldn't have been that ambitious. In the deal Sony did put money to help fund the game, did give them half a million for SFV eSport prizes and did fund, outsourced and publish the Ultra SFIV PS4 port.


What is the source of these supposed 55M?
GQ said on an interview with Phil that it sold 51M, Ampere estimates 51M, WSJ said analyst estimated 50M, and even VGChartz (whose estimates traditionally are wrong and never favoring Sony) mention 50.5M.

Any sources on the capcom thing? Can't really find any articles or interviews anymore. From what I remember, Capcom didn't want to pay for it.
 
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