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UFC 207 Rondo Rousey vs Amanda Nunes |OT| No Love & NO MORE QUESTIONS

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3N16MA

Banned
Can Conor just defend his fucking belt?

I'll be surprised if he fights more than once this year.

He will defend against Nate who will jump Khabib and Tony because the UFC doesn't give a shit about rank. Khabib and Tony will fight eliminating one from contention for a short while.
 
Sure, but is what they're doing the best thing for their organization? They just sold their entire brand for the price of two basketball teams. It's still a young league. I'd argue that going with USADA has hurt their earnings short-term, but they needed to do it for the long-term health of the org. They need to fix the match-making somehow, because it's very confusing for everyone.

That's for the new owners to figure out. Considering what the UFC came from the Fertitto Bros made out like bandit's with the sale of the UFC. The whole idea of it as a legit sport is the least of their concerns. All they care about is PPV buys and how to generate the most income.
 
This fight came across as a cashout fight for Ronda. Despite all the things UFC are doing better than boxing, they did a poor job in protecting and rehabilitating their cash cow.
 
This fight came across as a cashout fight for Ronda. Despite all the things UFC are doing better than boxing, they did a poor job in protecting and rehabilitating their cash cow.

The UFC is doing better than boxing in media coverage but that's about it. Boxers make a ton more than any MMA fighter right now and internationally Boxing still holds a ton more weight than MMA in viewability and revenue
 

Doikor

Member
This fight came across as a cashout fight for Ronda. Despite all the things UFC are doing better than boxing, they did a poor job in protecting and rehabilitating their cash cow.

Conor is bigger then Ronda by a good half a million PPV buys on average. Also how big Conor is plain stupid. UFC 206 ~150K PPV buys. UFC 202 1.65 million buys. Ronda has been getting it easy with UFC with the new owners (Ronda is managed by the new owners company). Though no saying what will happen now that she lost again.
 

Tall4Life

Member
UFC is fucked up in general for better or for worse. Like, who the fuck is Cody Garbrandt? Five UFC fights against journeymen and he gets a title shot?

I mean, the match-ups are good. Women's went Ronda, Holm, Tate, Nunes like bam-bam-bam. Conor getting thrown into all sorts of random shit. Part of what makes the UFC exciting is that there is clearly no structure or logic in how fights get made, and yet, we're not seeing any stagnation in the divisions. The Middleweight division with the belt flipping around like crazy, too.

I really do hope they sort out the rankings and get a better system so titles feel more "earned," and champions seem more "deserving," but while Conor is very loud about his matchmaking, I don't think how he gets shots is out of wack with how the UFC operates.

They threw CM Punk to a young and dangerous, they gave Brock a title shot after a small sampling of win/lose fights, UFC don't care.

The only thing the UFC doesn't like is people who get injured.

UFC makes fights on what will make the most money. Dana is very shrewd in that way.
 
Conor is bigger then Ronda by a good half a million PPV buys on average. Also how big Conor is plain stupid. UFC 206 ~150K PPV buys. UFC 202 1.65 million buys. Ronda has been getting it easy with UFC with the new owners (Ronda is managed by the new owners company). Though no saying what will happen now that she lost again.

She can't fight again. She won't beat Valentina Shevchenko. She can't beat Julianna Pena either. Her only real option is to maybe fight Paige or something and hype it over that BS drama from earlier in the year.
 

Dr.Acula

Banned
The whole idea of it as a legit sport is the least of their concerns. All they care about is PPV buys and how to generate the most income.

UFC makes fights on what will make the most money. Dana is very shrewd in that way.

They'd make more money if they got rid of drug-testing. How much more quickly could athletes rehab if they could use anything to do it? How many more marquee matchups would have happened if fighters didn't get popped on the reg? I just don't see the "call-out era" lasting for the same reasons that the "PED" era had to end. Long-term it's just not good business.

The Reebok thing was clearly a fuckup. It's cost them fighters, most notably GSP, and I don't think the deal has helped them. It makes the kits look a little more "professional" but they could have addressed that in other ways.
 
They'd make more money if they got rid of drug-testing. How much more quickly could athletes rehab if they could use anything to do it? How many more marquee matchups would have happened if fighters didn't get popped on the reg? I just don't see the "call-out era" lasting for the same reasons that the "PED" era had to end. Long-term it's just not good business.

The Reebok thing was clearly a fuckup. It's cost them fighters, most notably GSP, and I don't think the deal has helped them. It makes the kits look a little more "professional" but they could have addressed that in other ways.

No drug testing would lead to someone getting killed and possibly lawsuits down the road. Drug testing is as important as ever right now. The whole Reebok thing only benefits the owners and takes away from the fighters. That was the plan when they implemented it to begin with. The gate fee from the other endorsements the fighters brought in just wasn't enough for the top heads and this fixed that issue.
 

Ensirius

Member
Especially now that the just got bought for 4 billion dollars. You can be sure a huge chunk of that money came from a loan and that shit has to be paid.

I mean fucking Disney paid 4 billion for Lucasfilm. No way in hell UFC is as good as an investment.

Also only super star UFC has left is Conor. So now Conor can ask for pretty much whatever he wants.

Conor has UFC and Dana by the balls. And he knows it. He is the one bringing in the PPV money. He wants a piece of the pie, or he is walking. And I do not blame him. I feel like he is the first UFC superstar that has some good financial advice behind him.



Sure, but is what they're doing the best thing for their organization? They just sold their entire brand for the price of two basketball teams. It's still a young league. I'd argue that going with USADA has hurt their earnings short-term, but they needed to do it for the long-term health of the org. They need to fix the match-making somehow, because it's very confusing for everyone.

.
They are not. Not even close. Fighters aren't happy, fans are getting tired of the same shit. I mean, look at that CM Punk fight. They brought him in and got him on the PPV because they want the money. If they REALLY cared about fighter's progression they would have given Punk a prelim with an evenly matched fighter. They did not get him that because they want the free money Punk was bringing (and Punk also wanted that sweet dough of course).
 
The UFC is doing better than boxing in media coverage but that's about it. Boxers make a ton more than any MMA fighter right now and internationally Boxing still holds a ton more weight than MMA in viewability and revenue

UFC is still in it's infancy and is only getting bigger and has done a tremendous job in creating competitive cards top to bottom on their PPV's and building their audience. Boxing is a century old sport that's already reach it's peak in the mainstream and is still suffering from artificially inflated purses relative to it's popularity that were subsidized from premium network channels. But the key thing UFC has that Boxing doesn't is the lucrative 18 to 35 American White male demographic, and as the sport grows so will it's popularity and participation globally and more advertiser's will feel confident throwing their advertising dollars towards UFC's brand, that I could see sometime in the future where their biggest stars are making more money off of endorsements than their actual purses.
 
UFC is still in it's infancy and is only getting bigger and has done a tremendous job in creating competitive cards top to bottom on their PPV's and building their audience. Boxing is a century old sport that's already reach it's peak in the mainstream and is still suffering from artificially inflated purses relative to it's popularity that were subsidized from premium network channels. But the key thing UFC has that Boxing doesn't is the lucrative 18 to 35 American White male demographic, and as the sport grows so will it's popularity and participation globally and more advertiser's will feel confident throwing their advertising dollars towards UFC's brand, that I could see sometime in the future where their biggest stars are making more money off of endorsements than their actual purses.

They still got a long ways to go before matching anything boxing has done salary wise. It doesn't help that the UFC is stunting the earning potential for their fighters through endorsements so that they can get a cut out of it as well. The UFC is beyond it's infancy as well and is running on well over 20 years now. It will take a lot for them to get that earning potential
 
They still got a long ways to go before matching anything boxing has done salary wise. It doesn't help that the UFC is stunting the earning potential for their fighters through endorsements so that they can get a cut out of it as well. The UFC is beyond it's infancy as well and is running on well over 20 years now. It will take a lot for them to get that earning potential

As a hardcore boxing fan, I think you're misrepresenting Boxing salaries on the whole especially globally. What the UFC has done is create a large middle class, which sucks for the bigger stars and draws earning potential, but benefits the majority. Boxing on the other hand has a small upper class that makes boatloads of money at the expense of the sport as a whole, and a majority underclass.
 
As a hardcore boxing fan, I think you're misrepresenting Boxing salaries on the whole especially globally. What the UFC has done is create a large middle class, which sucks for the bigger stars and draws earning potential, but benefits the majority. Boxing on the other hand has a small upper class that makes boatloads of money at the expense of the sport as a whole, and a majority underclass.

Have you seen what UFC fighters make? The fighters out of the top 5 in each weight class barely make ends meet especially now that they have that dumb Reebok deal in place. I know first hand what these guys make and it's pathetic what they're being paid right now. In regards to UFC salary there is what the top 5 in each weight class make which is a decent amount of money, and scraps for the rest which most middle-class workers in the world make more than these guys do.
 
Can Conor just defend his fucking belt?

I'll be surprised if he fights more than once this year.
The belt he just won 6 weeks ago? Conor is one of the most active fighters in the UFC, and there is no clear cut number one contender with Tony dragging his feet on accepting the Khabib fight.
 
Have you seen what UFC fighters make? The fighters out of the top 5 in each weight class barely make ends meet especially now that they have that dumb Reebok deal in place. I know first hand what these guys make and it's pathetic what they're being paid right now. In regards to UFC salary there is what the top 5 in each weight class make which is a decent amount of money, and scraps for the rest which most middle-class workers in the world make more than these guys do.

I meant "middle class" relative to their overall revenue. The gap between highest paid and lowest paid is nowhere near the disparity in boxing. UFC is building itself like a league similar to the NBA and NFL. As the UFC grows in popularity and expands so will its overall revenue and fight purses. Matter of fact, I could easily see a fighter's union get created sometime in the future that negotiates the share of revenue and other issues. You could never have any of this in Boxing due to the fractured nature of the sport and the numerous promotional companies, and premium network channels all competing against each other.
 
I meant "middle class" relative to their overall revenue. The gap between highest paid and lowest paid is nowhere near the disparity in boxing. UFC is building itself like a league similar to the NBA and NFL. As the UFC grows in popularity and expands so will its overall revenue and fight purses. Matter of fact, I could easily see a fighter's union get created sometime in the future that negotiates the share of revenue and other issues. You could never have any of this in Boxing due to the fractured nature of the sport and the numerous promotional companies, and premium network channels all competing against each other.

That is all true. But at the same time will the Fighters union have any real pull? At this current point in time it looks like no. The recently formed Mixed Martial Arts Athletes Association has a long ways to go before being able to add any real change to the sport. For them to be regarded as a legit sport though they got to stop with the antics and make fighters actually fight whom they're suppose to instead of basing everything on money fights. Let the true top dogs be the true top dogs and not fabricated guys whom they pick their most favorable matchups and promote them based on marketability and looks. I hope I see a day when the UFC resembles something remotely like that. Who knows, maybe Bellator, OneFC, Rizin or any of the other organizations will find a way to leapfrog the UFC and spearhead something like this down the road. Possibly save and improve the sport for the better longterm.
 
Even before the test Dana made it blatantly clear that there would not be a featherweight womans division because "There just isn't enough woman fighters to create a new division" It's just funny how it's all playing out. Once the hearing from the drug test happens a lot will come to light as to why she got popped for a diuretic.

Dana is completely full of shit. If he's not bad mouthing/bullying a fighter to the media so that they sign a contract, he's backtracking on something he said earlier. I'm really surprised that they've let him talk to the media this long
 

N° 2048

Member
The belt he just won 6 weeks ago? Conor is one of the most active fighters in the UFC, and there is no clear cut number one contender with Tony dragging his feet on accepting the Khabib fight.

He could have defended the FW belt instead of doing a money-grab 'super fight' with Nick Diaz. Dude had no business in the WW division when he was the FW champ.

edit: Nate, whatever.
 

Doikor

Member
He could have defended the FW belt instead of doing a money-grab 'super fight' with Nick Diaz. Dude had no business in the WW division when he was the FW champ.

Dude had quite a few million dollar business fighting Nick Diaz. At the end of it Conor is in it for the money so he will take the fight that will sell the most PPVs.

Diaz vs. McGregor 2 sold 1.65 million PPVs (UFC record at the time. I think 205 might have passed it). Conor made 3 million without a win bonus just for showing up. Conor is estimated to have made around 15 million in total with his PPV cut from UFC 202.
 
He could have defended the FW belt instead of doing a money-grab 'super fight' with Nick Diaz. Dude had no business in the WW division when he was the FW champ.

Ain't that the truth. This fight made no sense on so many levels except for the entertainment of the trashtalk leading up to the bout. Could have easily have fought Frankie Edgar at that time and possibly rematch Aldo as well during that timeframe
 
Ain't that the truth. This fight made no sense on so many levels except for the entertainment of the trashtalk leading up to the bout. Could have easily have fought Frankie Edgar at that time and possibly rematch Aldo as well during that timeframe

For significantly less money? Why would anyone do that?
 
Ain't that the truth. This fight made no sense on so many levels except for the entertainment of the trashtalk leading up to the bout. Could have easily have fought Frankie Edgar at that time and possibly rematch Aldo as well during that timeframe

Didn't both decline after Dos Anjos got hurt?
 

Aiii

So not worth it
He could have defended the FW belt instead of doing a money-grab 'super fight' with Nick Diaz. Dude had no business in the WW division when he was the FW champ.

Yeah, no business doing a last minute superfight after his LW opponent dropped out.

No business doing a fight that drew a buyrate of 1.5million. No business doing a return fight at 1.65m either. No business at all. In fact, terrible business. They have no sense, integrity of the sport blabla.

We should be past this by now. Conor gets to fight whoever he wants because people want to see it, done. All the poor FWs got their belt back now, so it really is time to move on.
 
That is all true. But at the same time will the Fighters union have any real pull? At this current point in time it looks like no. The recently formed Mixed Martial Arts Athletes Association has a long ways to go before being able to add any real change to the sport. For them to be regarded as a legit sport though they got to stop with the antics and make fighters actually fight whom they're suppose to instead of basing everything on money fights. Let the true top dogs be the true top dogs and not fabricated guys whom they pick their most favorable matchups and promote them based on marketability and looks. I hope I see a day when the UFC resembles something remotely like that. Who knows, maybe Bellator, OneFC, Rizin or any of the other organizations will find a way to leapfrog the UFC and spearhead something like this down the road. Possibly save and improve the sport for the better longterm.

You need a healthy balance of both. (best fighting the best and/or making the biggest money fight whenever possible.) There are a lot of things UFC can still learn from boxing such as how to protect and properly rehabilitate your cash cows after they suffered a devastating knock out loss, instead of immediately throwing them against another killer in her comeback fight and potentially destroying their career.
 

Ithil

Member
She should have joined a big MMA team and not stay with a slimy and delusional boxing coach. The damage done to her image are irreparable. The magic was her being on a hot run and smashing everybody in her way. It worked obviously until she faced women that can really punch.

Its a completely standard american hyperbolic success story of being put on that pedestal of greatness and one day Conor will get his. It will be icecold...

Conor already lost during his hot run. It didn't hurt him at all, mostly because he handled it far better than Ronda did, immediately looking for a rematch (against recommendation from about everyone) and coming back stronger in said rematch, to the point that he won a close fight.

Ronda was not killed just by losing, it was from disappearing for a year and apparently learning nothing whatsoever in that time. Conor came into his rematch with a gameplan clearly learned from his loss, so he backed up his hype in the end, Ronda looked like she'd regressed in her already weak striking, so she looks like she was all hype and no substance right now.
 
You need a healthy balance of both. (best fighting the best and/or making the biggest money fight whenever possible.) There are a lot of things UFC can still learn from boxing such as how to protect and properly rehabilitate your cash cows after they suffered a devastating knock out loss, instead of immediately throwing them against another killer in her comeback fight and potentially destroying their career.

Even if they fed Rousey a scrub as a tune-up fight her status as a cash-cow was long in doubt. You can only feed her so many cans until she's forced to fight another elite fighter. You can always create another better version of Rousey with the younger upcoming fighters. The problem with the UFC is not all of them can be blonde with blue eyes. You gotta work with what you got. Them trying to make Paige VanZant and Sage Northcutt the new up n comers in the UFC isn't working out as planned. They were fortunate to have McGregor and they're managing him accordingly while maxing out what they can with him.
 

Ithil

Member
He was dominating the first Diaz fight until he got caught. There was no harm taking that rematch. He begged for it and with Conor making the UFC the money they made for him fighting someone who barely cracks the top 5 let alone top 10 at welterweight they werent going to turn him down. Its like how Dana bent over backwards for GSP and Jon Jones not too long ago. Difference is those two fighters cleaned out their divisions

Conor did not get caught and he wasn't dominating, his normal gameplan for fights (KO his opponent with explosive boxing) wasn't working on Diaz, who is both larger than Conor and notoriously hardheaded, so Conor ended up getting tired while Diaz was still on his feet, leading to the submission loss.

The rematch had Conor adjust his gameplan to counter what happened in the first fight. He stayed cautious early on instead of rushing into things, and attacked Diaz' legs instead of trying only to knock him out, which made all the difference late in the fight when Conor was low on energy and Diaz had turned it around (and nearly won at one point, but Conor is also pretty hardheaded and never went out) but was sluggish from his hurt leg.

You're somehow selling both Conor and Diaz short at once.
 
Even if they fed Rousey a scrub as a tune-up fight her status as a cash-cow was long in doubt. You can only feed her so many cans until she's forced to fight another elite fighter. You can always create another better version of Rousey with the younger upcoming fighters. The problem with the UFC is not all of them can be blonde with blue eyes. You gotta work with what you got. Them trying to make Paige VanZant and Sage Northcutt the new up n comers in the UFC isn't working out as planned. They were fortunate to have McGregor and they're managing him accordingly while maxing out what they can with him.

Agreed, but she could've at least mentally gotten over the KO loss, shaken off the ring rust, and gradually built back her confidence as well as worked on her flaws against lesser opponents, which would've put her in a much better position to do better against elite opposition even if she still loss, but more importantly prolonged her career and made more paydays and high profile events for the sport.

Superstars are hard to find or create, but when you do get one you have to learn their strengths and weaknesses and balance the risk/reward ratio for maximizing their career.
 
Conor did not get caught and he wasn't dominating, his normal gameplan for fights (KO his opponent with explosive boxing) wasn't working on Diaz, who is both larger than Conor and notoriously hardheaded, so Conor ended up getting tired while Diaz was still on his feet, leading to the submission loss.

The rematch had Conor adjust his gameplan to counter what happened in the first fight. He stayed cautious early on instead of rushing into things, and attacked Diaz' legs instead of trying only to knock him out, which made all the difference late in the fight when Conor was low on energy and Diaz had turned it around (and nearly won at one point, but Conor is also pretty hardheaded and never went out) but was sluggish from his hurt leg.

You're somehow selling both Conor and Diaz short at once.

That punch before the Stockton Slap he received stunned him which is what I meant when I said he got caught. He was dazed and took a nice slap on top of that. Yeah he was tired also but he definitely got caught which lead to that slap afterwards.
 

N° 2048

Member
conor-caught-by-diaz.gif


Isn't that the part of the fight where he got caught? He didn't look the same after this punch in that fight...

You can see his eyes, the way he licks his lips and locks his jaw and even Diaz knows (the smile).
 
Agreed, but she could've at least mentally gotten over the KO loss, shaken off the ring rust, and gradually built back her confidence as well as worked on her flaws against lesser opponents, which would've put her in a much better position to do better against elite opposition even if she still loss, but more importantly prolonged her career and made more paydays and high profile events for the sport.

Superstars are hard to find or create, but when you do get one you have to learn their strengths and weaknesses and balance the risk/reward ratio for maximizing their career.

The problem with Rousey is she was too one-dimensional from the start. Her spending most of her time as a Judoka was ultimately her downfall. She was way too advanced in Judo for her to learn to be effective and any other aspect of fighting. If she had some formal training in striking along the way growing up it would've benefited her but there are just some instincts you can't learn unless you have years and years of practice to hone them and that was Striking for her. The same issue will arise if Mackenzie Dern ever finds her way to the UFC.
 
conor-caught-by-diaz.gif


Isn't that the part of the fight where he got caught? He didn't look the same after this punch in that fight...

You can see his eyes, the way he licks his lips and locks his jaw and even Diaz knows (the smile).

That's exactly the moment. His reaction to the slap right after is what made that fight. Too funny..
 
The problem with Rousey is she was too one-dimensional from the start. Her spending most of her time as a Judoka was ultimately her downfall. She was way too advanced in Judo for her to learn to be effective and any other aspect of fighting. If she had some formal training in striking along the way growing up it would've benefited her but there are just some instincts you can't learn unless you have years and years of practice to hone them and that was Striking for her. The same issue will arise if Mackenzie Dern ever finds her way to the UFC.

I don't disagree, but surely you can admit she could've been a better striker than the one that showed up this past weekend.
 
I don't disagree, but surely you can admit she could've been a better striker than the one that showed up this past weekend.

Hells no and even if she was a better striker it wouldn't have been noticeable in her fight with Nunes. A boxer's mentality and Judoka's mentality towards fighting are polar opposites of each other. Judo's more submissive on the feet until you get your hands on somebody almost like luring someone real close to you where as a boxer, kickboxer your approach is totally different. In the fight look at Rousey's reaction after eating that first legit shot she took. She started pushing off with her leg to keep distance keeping Nunes in perfect striking range. The whole fight from beginning to end Rousey's coach was yelling head movement and there was none from the opening bell. We are creatures of habit and when an inexperienced fighter is out their comfort zone you do what comes natural. She couldn't tie her up so she just stuck her foot out to distance herself and made it worse. Even if she was trained to not do that over the year the moment you get popped in the face all rationale goes out the window and you basically do anything to just get away. In her case it was totally the wrong thing to do but it was her instincts that led her to that moment. You're someone who loves boxing. If you've watched an amateur fighter box what happens when they get popped real good? They do some real dumb unorthodox shit to protect themself.
 
Fighting Edgar or Aldo? Not sure if serious.

What made a middle of the rankings Welterweight a bigger draw than the 2 biggest names in his current division? Nobody respected Nate as a fighter till that McGregor fight and even then Nate was struggling to stay afloat in that division and wasn't even considered as a legit title threat at Welterweight.
 
Hells no and even if she was a better striker it wouldn't have been noticeable in her fight with Nunes. A boxer's mentality and Judoka's mentality towards fighting are polar opposites of each other. Judo's more submissive on the feet until you get your hands on somebody almost like luring someone real close to you where as a boxer, kickboxer your approach is totally different. In the fight look at Rousey's reaction after eating that first legit shot she took. She started pushing off with her leg to keep distance keeping Nunes in perfect striking range. The whole fight from beginning to end Rousey's coach was yelling head movement and there was none from the opening bell. We are creatures of habit and when an inexperienced fighter is out their comfort zone you do what comes natural. She couldn't tie her up so she just stuck her foot out to distance herself and made it worse. Even if she was trained to not do that over the year the moment you get popped in the face all rationale goes out the window and you basically do anything to just get away. In her case it was totally the wrong thing to do but it was her instincts that led her to that moment. You're someone who loves boxing. If you've watched an amateur fighter box what happens when they get popped real good? They do some real dumb unorthodox shit to protect themself.

Well striking wasn't her problem in that fight. Her fighting a striker focused MMA fighter was in her comeback after suffering an embarrassing and devastating KO against another striker focused MMA fighter. It's like somebody who got exposed their weakness was kryptonite and throwing them back in the ring with somebody who has 10x more kryptonite without even learning how to deal with it. It's stupid matchmaking. And as a boxing fan, you should know somebody who's never been knocked out but finally does, you don't throw them back in the ring against another puncher.
 
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