Support NeoGAF

[drganon]

If "failing" means they can't buy every other publisher and force the industry into a subscription/cloud shit hole, then yeah, I want them to fail. I say that as someone who owned an original, 360 and Xbox one.

 

[jm89]

I don't really want xbox to fail so much they go out of business. But i despise their current antics.

Arrogantly claiming they will continue buying more companies after announcing the ABK deal. Let's assume the ABK was approved the only thing that wold really stay on PS would be cod, everything else is probably gonna be removed. If they buy more companies that's more games being removed.

Blaming the competition for their failure to compete. Going as far as getting senators involved and saying playstation is making them smaller, pathetic stuff.

Crying about console wars, yet being the biggest driver for adding fire to the console wars.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

I've bought every single Xbox (bar that piece of shit XSS), and Microsoft have been so goddamn inept since the Xbox One. Geeeeeeeezus just fire upper management already.

When Phil claimed that PlayStation wasn't a competitor, I was like WTF is this shit.

As you get older and deal with companies more you will realize most large company upper management are idiots and have no idea what goes on in the trenches of real work it does.

 

[Sanepar]

No one wants Xbox to fail We want XBOX pre Kinect BACK! If they insist to make only B tier games forcing mp, coop or gaas on everything they deserve to fail.
If they focus on high quality SP games first they don't deserve to fail, it was what they did for 10 years.

 

[Mister Wolf]

They don't. They have just become jaded with Microsoft's promises. Microsoft really shit the bed during the Xbox One era and still haven't recovered. Their biggest problem is putting undeserving and inept people in leadership/management positions and getting burned. The whole Halo fiasco with 343 is the most glaring. Arkane is just the most recent. The people running those studios don't deserve their jobs.

 

[Ozriel]

But then there's also the fact that most people see that Xbox isn't being able to compete, see their current trajectory is wrong because their handling of 1st parties is horrible and buying more studios and publishers is simply going to amplify everything bad that they already do.

Then the more sensible thing would be to ignore the platform altogether, wouldn’t it?

 

[Dick Jones]

I own a PS5, there are games on Switch that attract me to that ecosystem. What games on Series attracts me to Xbox? Not enough to invest in them.

Spencer on about not out consoling Sony. No shit. It takes years of hard work and consistency in first party productions, its not like turning on a tap. If the big AAA per quarter is true when the output properly begins, then we will see people look at maybe being interested for one or two of these per year and could have about 10 games overall that are exclusive to Xbox in this gen before next gen. I wont buy a console for a handful of games but about 10 then im interested. I would seriously consider buying a Series X or maybe gen system to run through the backlog or maybe invest in the next gen as well as the PS6 and/or Nintendo Switch 2. I doubt I'm alone in this.

Plan huge for the next gen with at least 4 heavy hitters at day 1. Plan to have at least 1 big game per quarter after that. This round is over but aim to start the next gen with a bang, the last two efforts were embarrassing in reveal and exclusives. And don't call it the xbox 1 again.

 

[Banjo64]

It’s not about want, it’s about seeing what is happening in front of my very eyes.

 

[ReBurn]

Console wars

 

[ungalo]

Mocking them is a good way to evacuate your frustration, especially when you bought an Xbox.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

this is like you saying that because we call someone a bad driver because they keep getting into accidents and can't grasp the basics.... it means we want them to have more accidents.

and said driver just totaled his Civic and bought a Ferrari. And is off to pick his kids from school.

 

[Dick Jones]

One final thing, do Xbox deserve their current spot based only on their hard work?
Nov 2020 released a console with no major first party exclusive games
July 2021 Flight Sim
November/December 2021 Forza and Halo
May 2022 Redfall

Is that enough to warrant first place?

 

[Topher]

The implication is that a quality game won't matter and isn't a red flag for them.

I heard what Phil said about Red Fall how he wouldn't have released it if he thought it wouldn't have reviewed better and were tested internally. I heard him say the bugs were acceptable and the biggest issue was the 60fps.

Rumors that were right about the state of Redfall also were in the same sentence as Starfield.

I am a customer too. I own their product. I am subscribed to GP.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure where Phil got this idea that the expectation some supposedly have is that MS must make game great so PS5 owners will abandon PlayStation. Just nonsense.

The expectation I and others have is that Microsoft must make great games and add them to the Xbox library so the platform has value. Microsoft is doing a shit job of that. Downplaying making great games and making this shit about console war nonsense was just stupid. Phil should know better.

 

[Ozriel]

The implication is that a quality game won't matter and isn't a red flag for them.

That was never implied, though.

I heard what Phil said about Red Fall how he wouldn't have released it if he thought it wouldn't have reviewed better and were tested internally. I heard him say the bugs were acceptable and the biggest issue was the 60fps.

Of course there are lessons to be learnt from Redfall. Like he said, their internal projections were higher. I’m willing to bet majority of studios also imagine they’d review higher. Internal tests for Callisto Protocol and Forspoken would most certainly have been higher, for example. And this is a bias they’ll have to work on eliminating for their next games.

What he said was that crash rates were within acceptable rates in internal testing. Another learning point for them to possibly expand testing.

Rumors that were right about the state of Redfall also were in the same sentence as Starfield.

Diablo 4 was also in that same rumor as a technical mess. And yet the betas were very successful.

Shouldn’t that tell you that its credibility is suspect?

 

[Jaybe]

Truth is, Microsoft is really only in this game due to selling us subscriptions like they were a cable company, considering us like an Office365 corporate client. Making the games is a necessary evil to them to participate in the market. They don’t truly care about the games and the art of it all. It isn’t in their DNA. Here’s a few excerpts from their history. The culture still runs deep. Game Pass is likely just a shift from the acknowledgment Gold subs dropped drastically with the Xbox One launch and requiring an alternative. Still they produce value in their strengths of network, ecosystem, back compatibility, and console hardware quality.

But Ballmer "would want to talk to us about how we're thinking about subscriptions and what the value proposition was, and what went behind the subscription wall, and what was in front of the subscription wall. It felt like exactly the same meeting Bill would have, but from a different direction. The same passion, the same desire, the same engagement, and by the way, the exact same memory."

When Peter Moore (pictured right), former president of Sega of America, arrived as a top Xbox executive, he sat in a meeting with CEO Steve Ballmer, who went into one of his classic shouting routines. Noting that Xbox Live was Microsoft’s ace, he shouted, “Xbox Live!” and pounded the table. He did it over and over. “Xbox Live! Xbox Live! Xbox Live!” Then he slammed into the Polycom conference phone with his fist, breaking it. He looked sheepish. Ed Fries turned to the astonished Moore and said, “Welcome to Microsoft.”

 

[hussar16]

People were pissed when Phil downplayed the importance of good games.

That's not people wanting Xbox to fail. That's wanting Xbox to get back to what they once were.

He's being totally honest tho. When you have a subscription model that makes money either way why would you care about good games. Microsoft wants to monopolize the gaming bussiness that's why they bought Activision. Easy profit easy continously money.

 

[Ozriel]

Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure where Phil got this idea that the expectation some supposedly have is that MS must make game great so PS5 owners will abandon PlayStation. Just nonsense.

The expectation I and others have is that Microsoft must make great games and add them to the Xbox library so the platform has value. Microsoft is doing a shit job of that. Downplaying making great games and making this shit about console war nonsense was just stupid. Phil should know better.

He responded to that in the context of people pushing for them to meet or exceed Sony in console marketshare.

Reads more like a realistic take. In his view, losing the XB1 generation so badly has put them on the back foot for console sales for the next generation, and he’s saying that it’s unlikely that it’ll be reversed even with great games on Xbox.

I don’t think any of his statements indicated an unwillingness to make great AAA games or provide quality for Gamepass.

A lot of what he said has been taken out of context, and it’s weird seeing people pretend that a lot of conversation here about both consoles isn’t about marketshare and comparative lifetime sales

 

[Topher]

He responded to that in the context of people pushing for them to meet or exceed Sony in console marketshare.

Reads more like a realistic take. In his view, losing the XB1 generation so badly has put them on the back foot for console sales for the next generation, and he’s saying that it’s unlikely that it’ll be reversed even with great games on Xbox.

I don’t think any of his statements indicated an unwillingness to make great AAA games or provide quality for Gamepass.

A lot of what he said has been taken out of context, and it’s weird seeing people pretend that a lot of conversation here about both consoles isn’t about marketshare and comparative lifetime sales

No, he did not. PlayStation wasn't mentioned at all. The interviewer asked about adding more value to the Xbox console like they are doing with improving the interface. Phil Spencer went on this console war tangent entirely on his own.

 

[akaFullmetal]

Fanboys, sure, but everyone else just wants Xbox to do better. Xbox has the richest company in the world with the most studios now , yet they seem to stumble everytime things are starting to go their way.
We all know how Xbox series launched , how halo launched, how the year 2022 was with aaa games and now with red fall. Just need to do better on the game side.

 

[Stare-Bear]

Instead of managing and nurturing their first party studios, they run them into the ground. And then they buy more studios to do the same thing.

Latest will be Arkane. Either all of the senior talent will leave or they’re gonna be turned into a halo/gears/forza factory…

 

[Elog]

Giving honest criticism is the complete opposite. I want them to succeed but I have consistently reacted to marketing BS that has a tendency to really surround the XBOX systems and line-ups.

Everyone that loves games benefit from strong XBOX, PS and Nintendo platforms.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

I want a competent 3rd platform holder that cares about making great games. There seems to only be room for 3 platform holders and I don’t want any to care more about forcing cloud and services to have more control and take away more ownership.

After Phil’s interview and seeing the ABK deal details, MS is clearly just a scummy company trying to get control while producing nothing when it comes to the main product aka great games.

 

[killatopak]

That was never implied, though.



Of course there are lessons to be learnt from Redfall. Like he said, their internal projections were higher. I’m willing to bet majority of studios also imagine they’d review higher. Internal tests for Callisto Protocol and Forspoken would most certainly have been higher, for example. And this is a bias they’ll have to work on eliminating for their next games.

What he said was that crash rates were within acceptable rates in internal testing. Another learning point for them to possibly expand testing.



Diablo 4 was also in that same rumor as a technical mess. And yet the betas were very successful.

Shouldn’t that tell you that its credibility is suspect?

Implication was alongside the result of Redfall which is they can't estimate how good of quality their game is if they allowed it to release that way.

We've seen this song and dance before how bugs and such will be learned next time as far back as Halo, Crackdown, MCC and Ryse. I've said it before in the redfall thread but I'm tired of hearing Phil apologize and tell me he'll learn. He's been apologizing and learning for a decade. I want results.

Dunno about the D4 rumors. The rumor I heard about only mentioned SF and RF and I remember it came from one the Heisenbergs here.

 

[Black_Stride]

I think there's some persecution complex here.


Most people want Xbox to succeed. I want Xbox to succeed. Ideally they'd have 33% of the console market, or throw in 25% of the console market and bring back Sega. Ideally they'd all be on a race to the bottom in console price and a race to the top in title quality.

But then there's also the fact that most people see that Xbox isn't being able to compete, see their current trajectory is wrong because their handling of 1st parties is horrible and buying more studios and publishers is simply going to amplify everything bad that they already do.

While there is a level of persecution complex no doubt.

Saying most on this forum want Xbox to succeed is blatantly wrong.
Go into near literally any Xbox thread and tell me thats people wanting Xbox to succeed.
When people dismiss successes and celebrate failures that pretty much tells you what their view of the platform is.

Im not even an Xbox fanboy but im seeing more often than not whenever Xbox has something good, its dismissed or downplayed, and when something bad happens you see all the mans crawl outta the woodwork to pile on how shit Xbox/Phil/Greenberg are.

There is no denying a very heavy bias toward people atleast seemingly happy whenever Xbox suffers a "defeat", which is why im guess OP made this thread.
If people are celebrating the downfall of the Xbox platform, they must want it to fail.

 

[Fabieter]

Where did you get that?

 

[nush]

They weren’t around when one company controlled 99% of the market to remember the absolute bangers that produced.

Where there's blame there's Acclaim.

 

[Drell]

Never was a huge fan of ms. They're too powerful with their infinite warchest and monopoly over PC OS (and gaming on PC for that matter). And now they're leading in the cloud sector, only contested by Amazon, another of the ultra rich gamam.

But even without all these things what's really bothering me with them is that their new console strategy is to buy everything with their infinite money to disrupt the market and also getting the monopoly over gaming on consoles without proposing anything new themselves in term of games.

Never owned any of their consoles because I was a Nintendo fanboy for too long but I remember back then that the original XBox and 360 had some really cool games. Back then, I remember thinking that the 360 library looked a lot more fun than the PS3. Nowaday, they decided to port everything directly to PC so what's the point of the Series S/X?

The reality for me, is that, as long as a competitor plays it fair by making its own thing without disrupting the competitor too much (exclusivities timed or not are ok), I won't have a problem with it. But when that competitor comes and say it's unfaire it's not dominant and that they need to buy the biggest publisher for 70 billions or else they can't compete, I have no shame to wish them to fail.

I just want to buy my console without living under the constant menace that MS will come and buy that publisher because it can. So if they fail, cry me a river, the video game industry was always about 3 competitors, if MS left the console sector (Spoiler: it won't happen) some other gamam would join and I'm not sure it would happen since the new buzz around these people is cloud gaming.

 

[Skifi28]

I don't want it to fail, competition is always good and they have some great franchises under their belt they can do great stuff with if they actually bothered. But, if failing is the alternative to buying the entire industry to create the usual Microsoft monopoly, I can most certainly live with it.

 

[Captain Toad]

He's being totally honest tho. When you have a subscription model that makes money either way why would you care about good games. Microsoft wants to monopolize the gaming bussiness that's why they bought Activision. Easy profit easy continously money.

Ok, well then if he "honestly" doesn't see the value in good games, then I guess I DO want him to fail and be replaced with someone who does.

 

[SmokedMeat]

They weren’t around when one company controlled 99% of the market to remember the absolute bangers that produced.

Wait…what?? Are you saying LJN produced bangers?!

 

[mxbison]

I want them to fall flat on the face and get a ton of shit for it so they finally do something and stop the excuses.

Giga rich software giant that has been in the gaming industry for decades can't get a proper software lineup going. What a joke.

Also competition is always good for the consumer. Only dumb fanboys would actually want MS/Sony/Nintendo to fail.

 

[OneShotThrill]

Why does Microsoft want Xbox to fail is the real question

 

[hussar16]

No one wants Xbox to fail We want XBOX pre Kinect BACK! If they insist to make only B tier games forcing mp, coop or gaas on everything they deserve to fail.
If they focus on high quality SP games first they don't deserve to fail, it was what they did for 10 years.

They are never going back to tht now.just forget it.even from outset of Microsoft it was about squeezing out money from consumers.subscrition model wayyy back in 2002 was Microsoft idea.their initial idea was we are going to make great games halo and gears of war for example but you cant play them without paying subscription.its not until now their full vision is becoming a reality. Complete subscritpion model where great games are locked behind their paywall.easy money no work execs get great bonuses layoff more staff

 

[Roman Empire]

I want Xbox to beat PS this gen so that they can start putting in effort again. Sony has gotten so complacent over the past 10 years it's ridiculous.

I want more Japanese-centric games produced by Sony. Team Asobi is not enough to supply my needs for Japanese exclusives like we used to have back in the PS2/PS3 era.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The persecution complex that arises whenever Microsoft gets slammed by gamers is sad. The people most upset at MS are the people who care the most about great games and who are pissed off with their output this gen.

If you sense any joy I guarantee that's overshadowed by anger and disappointment. Maybe there is some hope that with Redfall blowing up the way it did that Microsoft will finally DO something about it this time?

This thread seems like a way to try to make this problem about gamers instead of MS which is a classic fanboy mentality.

 

[ShadowNate]

Console wars are for idiots. Always were, still are.

 

[bitbydeath]

I feel like they bring it on themselves most of the time and there would be less “warring” if they left the industry so I can’t say they would be greatly missed. They’ve proven to play dirty in a lot of ways, not just the acquisitions but also their media mobs which neither Sony nor Nintendo seem to partake in.

It would be great for Nintendo and Sony to have more competition though so hopefully someone else like Apple would step in.

 

[akaFullmetal]

You've got to laugh at them, they were not long ago crying that Hi Fi Rush is nothing to do with MS as it was in development before the acquisition, yet now they are certain that everything wrong with Redfall is down to Phil Spencer .
These people are so transparent it's embarrassing.

Yes some people said that but plenty of people also defended the opposite, that this was Xbox big turn around, games were finally coming. Phil said that he takes full responsibility for the way red fall launched.
So which is it?

 

[Needlecrash]

I don't want Xbox to fail. I want them to do better. They've have several big missteps here and some strategy and leadership are needed to right the ship. They have the resources, I mean they're Microsoft for fucks sake.

 

[Elios83]

Competition is good, it would be stupid to wish their broad failure.
But their strategies have been wrong, instead on focusing on creating great contents and manage properly the huge amount of resources they already have, they have focused on trying to exploit the financial strength of whole corporation to buy marketshare.
This particular aspect needs to fail and it's good it's failing so that maybe they can refocus on what actually matters and not tricks and shortcuts.

 

[Ozriel]

No, he did not. PlayStation wasn't mentioned at all. The interviewer asked about adding more value to the Xbox console like they are doing with improving the interface. Phil Spencer went on this console war tangent entirely on his own.

I just went and rewatched it again and you’re definitely not following the context.

He was asked about concerns about console being neglected with the strong focus on PC.
A response that reiterates that Xbox is Cloud, PC and console isn’t out of place. Also the subsequent impact of that plus the ground already lost in the disastrous Xbox one generation on console marketshare.

Again, many of the talking points I see distilled from that show are misguided, to put things mildly. Multiple times in the show, Phil committed to delivering quality games from a now recovered pipeline. Why is the ‘great games won’t turn around console market position in a dramatic way’ part being highlighted to back claims that good games are no longer a focus at xbox?

 

[Flutta]

Eh. I believe people have an issue with MS and their direction, they want the gaming industry to dance around their ego. They hate traditional gaming, ownership and want people to rent games instead. Basically they want to control the games that you usually have the right to own, among other things.

Also who’s fault is it that Xbox is failing? The haters or the people running the show?

 

[Arun1910]

I don't want them to fail but they've been failing for so long as far as exclusives are concerned that I just think it's a joke now. Its never going to change.

 

[Neff]

As someone who has owned a 360, One and Series X, I could flip a coin and be happy with either a clean industry exit or wild, flourishing success. There are good potential outcomes in both scenarios. What I don't want is what they're doing now- lack of focus, lack of creative investment, indecisiveness, poor demographic reading, and a general non-committal attitude. "fuck it, we didn't beat Sony this round, let's try putting in actual effort next time" isn't going to work. It didn't work with the One. All they're doing is showing their player base that they don't give a shit about the brand here and now, and what that means to the paying customer. If they stay on the same path without going out of their way to provide exclusive purchase incentives, they'll simply continue to lose customers until Xbox is meaningless as an entertainment platform. Spencer coming clean with his little white flag is no solution. It's business suicide.

 

[DJ12]

I want Xbox to beat PS this gen so that they can start putting in effort again. Sony has gotten so complacent over the past 10 years it's ridiculous.

Intended irony?

 

[Topher]

I just went and rewatched it again and you’re definitely not following the context.

He was asked about concerns about console being neglected with the strong focus on PC.
A response that reiterates that Xbox is Cloud, PC and console isn’t out of place. Also the subsequent impact of that plus the ground already lost in the disastrous Xbox one generation on console marketshare.

Incorrect. I am following the context just fine. Nothing he was asked had anything to do with console war bullshit.

Here is what was asked:

"I want to praise you and the team for really elevating the PC side of this Xbox ecosystem. I think we've seen a lot of great strides in that, but when you see the community talk about the console side of things do you think you've lost the focus or put too much on to the PC side. Do you think that the console is still getting the console love that it deserves whether it be the home page update, achievements, of course using the power of this next gen. Do you guys think you have lost that focus or is it still there and can we see more love on that side"

This wasn't a follow up question to anything previously said. This was solely about adding value to the Xbox console such as Xbox home page and achievements.

Spencer actually started off responding to the question:

"We will definitely continue to focus on making the console experience as great as it can be like the home page refresh and some stuff..."

And then he jumped into the console wars tirade. There is nothing to debate here. Nothing I'm saying is out of context at all. It is factual.

 

[Captain Toad]

I want Xbox to beat PS this gen so that they can start putting in effort again. Sony has gotten so complacent over the past 10 years it's ridiculous.

You honestly look at what PlayStation is putting out and what Xbox is putting out and come to the conclusion it's SONY that isn't trying?

 

[Markio128]

I used to love the Xbox brand, I really did, but would I miss it now if they disappeared from gaming? No, not one iota. The Xbox as a brand has fallen so far down in my own personal estimations from the original Xbox console, it genuinely blows my mind.

And the utter bullshit that they are all for the good of gamers line, to try and excuse their successful and failed attempts at purchasing large multi platform publishers has killed any fondness I had for the brand.

I’d swap the xbox for a new Sega console any day of the week.

 

[Horseganador]

People are very tired of smoke, deceit and promises that never arrive in 10 years that is said soon and not one more happens to MS, the glass is full and the trust in Xbox is over.

 

[Hugare]

I want them to fail so they can change strategies and do better, not because I want them to go out of business

Competition is great and I dont think that another big company would try to enter the market so soon if that happens

'Cause MS is showing that having an infinite amount of resources is not enough. Making games at this and age takes huge amounts of time, money and talent. To build talented studios out of nothing aint easy, and managing them can be just as hard.

People thinking that Apple, EPIC and etc. would get MS'splace are delusional. They arent prepared.