Support NeoGAF

[Flabagast]

I am in the camp of neither as well. The core is rotten for both of them

 

[adamsapple]

Wheres the neither option?

 

[GHG]

Ok fine, I'll answer the question.

Spoiler

Redfall.

 

[Rockman33]

I played both for 80+ hours when they launched and thought they were pretty great.

 

[Shubh_C63]

Diablo 4 cannot be saved in my eyes unlike Starfield.

Atleast with Mods and 2 year worth of content maybe Starfield could be better. Diablo 4 if could have then would have by now.

 

[RoboFu]

I tied it! lol

 

[rhodesianshepard]

Diablo 4 has an outdated gameplay loop that will hurt its potential. I really don't see much the developers can do to make it a big success as a gaas game. It reminds me of Halo Infinite. It will appeal only to the hardcore, most gamers have moved on

Starfield will probably be pretty decent in a few years with all the DLC's and quality of life enhancements by modding community. How they didn't have land vehicles at launch is a joke

 

[Lorianus]

Starfields problem that the meat of the content is procedural generated is the core of the game that will not get patched, they made a bethesda game without the bethesda openworld, how no one stopped the dev team right then and there will allways amaze me.

Also am i the only one that thinks that bethesda gave up on starfield ?, i mean at this point in time in fallout 4's lifecycle we got automaton+far harbor, nuka world was on the horizon and the CK for the modding community came out mere months after release, starfield feels abandoned by the devs tbh.

 

[bender]

The base design in both games will not allow them to escape their tedium.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

I disagree with the premise that Diablo IV would be in need of a “redemption arc”. The game was generally well-received and people enjoyed it and quite liked it. And it sits on Metacritic with an 86. Wtf are you even talking about

I feel the same way about Starfield. I guess it was supposed to lead Xbox to selling 100,000,000 consoles or something the way GAF shits on it. 80’s meta, I thought the game was really good. My two main complaints were lack of gore and lack of melee combat. I played too much of it at launch and took a break but I go back every now and again to chill and explore planets.

Glad to hear your praise of D4, I have been waiting for this update to jump in. The answer has to be Diablo though, right? Didn’t Diablo 3 go through something similar and have a pretty rad redemption arc?

 

[The Cockatrice]

Neither.

 

[T4keD0wN]

I dont think either patch will redeem either game (does D4 even need it?), but the Starfield patch has some very needed and impactful improvements.

I might finally get around to finishing the campaign/story mode in Diablo before noping out, but i doubt ill even notice anything different.

 

[DragonNCM]

Starfield has a higher ceiling imo.

I said well before launch give them a year or so after launch and it will be a very good game, I still see that happening

Maybe opening the door to more players will be a good thing for it

The door to PS+ is always open

 

[nemiroff]

I don't think Starfield's patch is that big, but the game has the most potential as I see it.

Anyways, I got two Ultimate editions of D4 for me and my son because I thought we were going to play it for a long time.. Instead we basically bailed after the first session..

 

[Arsic]

Diablo is a long term play where the dev team it currently has is fixing the issues of the prior team. They were given a shell of a game and duct taped to release.

The next update fixes one of the major issues- loot.

Next up is expanding on skill trees, and maybe the paragon board too. The board really just needs saved profile/builds. The skill tree just needs more choice or more impactful choices. D3 did this better.

Lastly, is a better end game loop which has been addressed more and more every season. If the expansion later this year doesn’t fix this game fully then it’s hopeless. But a year of refinement has gotten the game closer and closer to a super fun state.

Starfield on the other hand has one expansion and that’s a wrap.

 

[StereoVsn]

Neither

Diablo 4 is a live service trying to make money off whales

Starfield is handicapped by an improper engine

Yep, both games are inherently compromised due to their design. D4 is a lost cause since the game is doing its best Captain Ahab impression going after those whales.

Maaaaaybe Todd and Co could refurbish Starfield a bit, but I don’t see it happening really.

Yeah, there would be expansions and some QoL, mod kit and performance optimization but they won’t solve design issues with exploration, problems with random (not so random really) POI generation on planets, and terribly written companions and main story. Hell, city design sucks as well.

 

[StereoVsn]

Diablo is a long term play where the dev team it currently has is fixing the issues of the prior team. They were given a shell of a game and duct taped to release.

The next update fixes one of the major issues- loot.

Next up is expanding on skill trees, and maybe the paragon board too. The board really just needs saved profile/builds. The skill tree just needs more choice or more impactful choices. D3 did this better.

Lastly, is a better end game loop which has been addressed more and more every season. If the expansion later this year doesn’t fix this game fully then it’s hopeless. But a year of refinement has gotten the game closer and closer to a super fun state.

Starfield on the other hand has one expansion and that’s a wrap.

Personally I don’t see them fixing Diablo’s issues like that but hopefully I am wrong.

That aside, did Bethesda state that only one expansion is coming? That’s not a good look.

 

[DavidGzz]

D4. My biggest hangup by far was having to sift through mostly useless items and spending way too much time on each because of the number of affixes and how much you had to pay attention to what they said and then wondering if you had that particular flavor of dmg on Tuesdays. The loot 2.0 will be huge for me. Also, they essentially added greater rifts which is the best part of D3. Plus, they made Helltides way more fun. Crafting and customizing items are the cherries on top.

 

[Neolombax]

I think its D4. They're updating the loot system and adding from what I understand a greater rift system from D3 into D4. I never did like the aspect system in D4 but they've now made it less cumbersome to interact with.

 

[sigmaZ]

Both games suck on their premise to me so neither. Diablo IV is a better game from what I've played though.

 

[Codeblew]

I will try D4 Season 4. Sifting through the mostly useless loot was the worst part. Now that it seems to be fixed, I will give it another shot. They fixed D3 eventually, I am hoping they do the same with D4.

 

[dorkimoe]

As long as starfield is utilizing the nonstop load mechanic everytime you see a door it’s gonna be Diablo

 

[ZehDon]

I played both titles at launch, and thoroughly enjoyed my time with them. Diablo IV was the better of the two, but not sure either needs a "redemption arc". Starfield needs to improve its exploration loop from its "Get Quest > Load Screen > Complete quest > Load Screen" format, but the rest of it was pretty solid I thought.

 

[rkofan87]

What?

You can fast travel anywhere in starfield and you want to skip space stuff in a space game? LOL.

fast travel from the start the space stuff is trash.

 

[Complistic]

I'll probably have fun playing Diablo again for a bit. There's no fun to be had playing Star Field again.

 

[bbeach123]

Update cant save the core problem of starfield .

 

[CityHunter1981]

I haven’t played it yet, but does Diablo 4 needs redemption? I hear only good things about the game, especially compared to 3.

 

[Mortisfacio]

At least for me, it's Diablo. The core game of Diablo is good, just has had its problems. Even prior to this upcoming patch, I enjoyed the game until level 70-80 then it plateaus. Blizzard keeps building upon it.

Starfield will improve, but my issue is the core game is just.... Boring. No QoL and content updates will fix the core game.

 

[Saber]

Everytime damn season is the "redemption arc" for Diablo 4, so its easier to believe Starfield has more chances. Though it has the jank fest seal from Bethesda, so it isn't exactly safe to say either. Not to mention their problems are at their core, so my answer would be closer to neither.

 

[clarky]

fast travel from the start the space stuff is trash.

KK, so no space travel, no space stuff, and even more fast travel than there already is. So Skyrim then?

 

[Thanati]

I stupidly read “Starcraft” in the header and got all excited.

Then I saw it was Starfield.

And I was just sad.

 

[clarky]

At least for me, it's Diablo. The core game of Diablo is good, just has had its problems. Even prior to this upcoming patch, I enjoyed the game until level 70-80 then it plateaus. Blizzard keeps building upon it.

Starfield will improve, but my issue is the core game is just.... Boring. No QoL and content updates will fix the core game.

Both games make or break for redemption are the upcoming expansions not these patches, even if they are a step in the right direction.

Like yourself I hit a will with D4 and it commits the videogame cardinal sin: its just boring once you hit Level 70-80.

Starfield, I had fun with and I'll be giving the expansion a bash. The May patch isn't something that warrants another playthrough for me.

 

[RPS37]

Been playing D4 for a bit since it dropped on GP, and it’s already pretty damn fun.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Many builds in D4 were crap, and the ones that were got nerfed by Blizzard, including the one I was running for my Necromancer and that just so antagonistic towards their users that I stopped and never sent back. They'll have to go back to D2 and D3 styles of buffing and never nerfing for me to be interested again, till then, fuck Blizzard.

As of now, they are planning to introduce seasonal aspects.

They would be changing meta builds every season. You won’t be playing same build for more than 20-30 hrs.

I do but just I never liked isometric style ARPG games and I HATE online only BS. games like Elden Ring and Monster Hunter games have character building as well and yet I can play those game completely offline if I want to.

Seasonal stuff works in favour of D4 IMO. They give you some 10 hrs of story per season.

Imagine if Elden Ring introduced new dungeons every 3 months, then encouraged you to try new builds. Like, for campaign you made a dex build, for these new dungeons you get to try something new like strength / greatsword build.

I would be down for that.

 

[Danjin44]

Seasonal stuff works in favour of D4 IMO. They give you some 10 hrs of story per season.

Imagine if Elden Ring introduced new dungeons every 3 months, then encouraged you to try new builds. Like, for campaign you made a dex build, for these new dungeons you get to try something new like strength / greatsword build.

I would be down for that.

I absolutely DO NOT want that. I MUCH prefer the way FROM does expansions.

I never want Live service crap on any FROM games….thank god they don’t do that.

 

[Codeblew]

I haven’t played it yet, but does Diablo 4 needs redemption? I hear only good things about the game, especially compared to 3.

D3 is by far better than D4 currently. D4 still has some ( a lot ) of catching up to do. D3 was even worse than D4 on its release though so I have hopes for D4 in the future.

 

[Codeblew]

Been playing D4 for a bit since it dropped on GP, and it’s already pretty damn fun.

It is the endgame where it starts to go bad. After 75-85, it starts to be a tiring grind for little reward.

 

[Gp1]

If a mod rips out the space section and just makes the space stations and planets menu fast travel points, I will consider that feasibly fixed.

In fact you can do just like you said. The entire space section is navigating menus after menus in one if the worst UI that Bethesda did in a game.
Maybe someone could mod an entire space section/transition ala Elite/No man Sky into the game because, imho, one of the best parts of the game is the ship creation.

 

[RPS37]

It is the endgame where it starts to go bad. After 75-85, it starts to be a tiring grind for little reward.

Damn. I could see that. I’m way early in.

 

[LordBlodgett]

Starfield was pretty damn fun, but with some massive flaws. They are already working on vehicles. They badly need some kind of world encyclopedia, a journal system, anything so you can see what things are on what world once you've explored. I mean Fallout has the pip boy, so it makes no sense why they cannot do that in their engine, and it's not like computers don't exist in the Starfield world. Anyways, I've already put hundreds of hours into it, but all that time has just made me not want to go back. They need to pull a Cyberpunk level of updates

 

[sankt-Antonio]

Seriously what was there to « redeem » about D4? It had a great launch, sold gangbusters, had great reviews, runs flawlessly, was feature complete. Sure it got better over time but there was nothing broken or even wrong about it at launch.

I don’t understand the logic here.

People bought it the way they buy GTA tittles. On name alone. A week after the massive press campaign and it turns out it lacks fun, loot and is just a fucking mess.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

Neither

 

[March Climber]

In fact you can do just like you said.

You can't, not 100%. That's the problem. I've explained this before in these two posts:

We have to wait on mods with the official tools to aid with problems like this. Same goes for the following annoyance:

1) Start mission. You find out it takes place in a different planet in a system far away -> Loading screen to fast travel into ship -> Pick system to fast travel to -> Loading screen to fast travel there -> You have to jump again if your ship isn’t good enough yet -> which means another loading screen into the actual system where the mission takes place -> You are now in system hovering over planet -> Deal with RNG space event(or scanning to enter) -> Fast travel to planet(loading) to land -> travel on foot to destination.

2) This took anywhere between 5 minutes(with good space RNG and small walk distance to objective on planet) to 20 minutes(bad space RNG and long walk on planet).

3) You finish your objective on the planet (feels worse if the mission itself is a minute or two of dialogue or a package delivery).

4) The quest must be completed by talking to the person who gave it to you. Fully repeat number 1.

What I want a future mod to fix: For all sidequests and missions, an added button that says ‘go directly to location’. Skip all steps in number 1 and be transported 5 ft away from mission start area, Mass Effect 2 style. Same button for finishing a mission if you must return to the quest giver.

That’s potentially 30 minutes or much more handed back to you. The fast travel now feels as good or better than other Bethesda games too due to less busywork. The game’s length is massively reduced. Suddenly unexplored random/repetitive planets don’t feel as bad because there’s no large time-buildup between landing on them for sidequests and missions.

It will end up as a top 10 mod.

And this part not helping the first part be any better:

The other part of this game happening in the big city planets should have had the majority of their quests happen within those planets, to keep you engaged with them more often and really make you feel like you could spend a ‘skyrim’ amount of time only doing quests for only that big planet. It would keep going until you almost forget then realize ‘oh wait, there are other big city planets like this, this is awesome’.

Instead, it’s ‘I need this from planet x’ loading screen, get it, loading screen, complete, ‘now I need this from planet y’ loading screen, kill it, loading screen, complete.

At that point, the game might as well be a selectable menu of quests that instantly take you to the planet, the location, and the mission, like Mass Effect 2, because at least then we would have more well designed levels, encounters, and quicker loading.

The entire space section is navigating menus after menus in one if the worst UI that Bethesda did in a game.

I agree about this menu UI issue, but adding a mission menu would not make this any worse. It instead would have the benefit of lowering the amount of loading screens and wait time.

Maybe someone could mod an entire space section/transition ala Elite/No man Sky into the game because, imho, one of the best parts of the game is the ship creation.

The Space section is what's causing the problem with this game. Ripping it completely out and making this more like Mass Effect 2 is the better option in my opinion.

 

[Varteras]

Ok fine, I'll answer the question.

Spoiler

Redfall.

You could rub 100 lamps and not find a genie with the power to save that one.

 

[Braag]

I'd say Diablo 4. Starfield still needs plenty improvements, despite being on the right track.
Diablo's biggest problem was the awful itemization which they claim to have fixed.

 

[tmlDan]

Neither are of any interest anymore to me, if any get a bump it'll likely be starfield

 

[VanCityGamer]

I’m actually quite looking forward to playing Starfield for the first time - over my Christmas break 2024. I think it’ll be a really good game after over a year of patches.

They should have land vehicles in by that point as well, which I expect will improve exploration.

 

[Zathalus]

I feel like those stating that Diablo 4 can't be improved don't actually follow most ARPGs.

 

[Joramun]

None of them

I'm enjoying GW2

 

[PnCIa]

OP: They promised me a set of steak knives...