Duxxy3
Member
That's the challenge that developers would have to overcome to get into the console market. I think it's worth exploring, and honestly think there is money to be made.
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Introduction to MOBAs
- Thread starter SteveWinwood
- Start date
That's the challenge that developers would have to overcome to get into the console market. I think it's worth exploring, and honestly think there is money to be made.
I keep hearing that but I've yet to see a game where melee heroes outperformed range unless someone gets super fed early on. It's super easy to kite and harass and not all melee heroes have mobility or gap closing abilities.
FGC is a complete anomaly in this respect. Pretty much everyone who plays Tekken, Street Fighter, Marvel, KoF, Soul Calibur, etc, gets along with everyone who plays the rest of them. Pretty much no MOBA communities get along with each other in any way shape or form.
You missed the most important part of his sentence: "damage the fundamental mechanics and would basicly be completely different games". That is not worth exploring.
The opportunity to create a brand new MOBA that would be based fundamentally on console controls is there, but the imprecise controls and lack of macros would just make it a really, really terrible MOBA. I'm not going to speculate as to what the common denominator is that tends to make MOBAs really popular, but I know it's not just the map concept.
Tyran_lord
Member
Melee shapers, mostly bruisers, work really well in the jungle with hunter role. They can't be really harassed then and their ganks are most of the time really strong. Other melee shapers, mostly tanks, have some form of ranged harass which can be spammed in lane to proc the tactician bonus. Since the new map patch melee gladiators are even viable, if they have some form of gap closer/escape.
sobaka770
Banned
Precision and skills can be dealt with (as was proven with Diablo 3 console port) but there is a greater problem with straight porting, concerning all the extra stuff like the item shop, which has to be browsed during the match, and usage of those items. For DotA2, you also need dedicated buttons for courier, for LoL you have Summoner skills etc. etc.
Therefore, most probably, the established PC market leaders will not port their games on consile, because neither LoL nor DotA2 can be simplified and remain competitive enough to be played with a controller. Moreover, the only okay-ish console MOBA (Middle Earth) didn't do so well despite the lack of competition,so it is possible that the companies are wary of potential demand for such games on console.
Eventually, though, someone will simplify the formula enough to port it to console. Smite works well because of camera angle and Heroes of the Storm without items is ripe for porting since you don't have those extra functions to think about.
ScepticMatt
Member
I could see HotS being ported to Consoles.
I think the biggest obstacle to putting MOBAs on consoles would be coordination tools. You can't expect every player to have voice chat and speakers. Being able to type out messages is super important. It kind of works in FPS because teamwork really isn't that important in FPS so much as individual skill, but in MOBAs, from Heroes of the Storm to DOTA2, teamwork is paramount. It's absolutely vital that you can at least sort of see what's happening in areas of the map other than your own, because that "map awareness" tends to make or break single matches.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=123364976 There's this too, I prefer it over Purge's intro
SteveWinwood
Member
I put it in the flowchart!
TharpDaddy
Member
We also now have Orcs Must Die: Unchained. No IP is safe from being a MOBA!
Magicka Wizard Wars as well.
No. It's not possible.
Slamtastic
Member
But I digress.
On topic: I played SMITE for a few matches and thought it was okay, but still not actiony enough for me.
Doubly sad because SMNC had a lot of potential and they were working to appease fans of the first game with TurboCross. The whole thing just launched way to early and didn't get the support it needed.
One thing to nore that no one ever brings up is that it's extremely difficult to learn League in League. As in:
- In Dota you can hover over enemies to see their skills, range, mana cost, dmg/stun per level. In LoL YOU CANNOT DO THIS. I was flabberghasted that I could not make decisions playing against a hero for the first time because I did not know what they did.
When I was a noob and laning I'd hover over my enemy and read their skills and estimate what ranges I was safe. I died to Bane around 5 times when I laned against him first "What the fuck his abilities are OP as shit".
Dota is more punishing and has more mechanics, but I think it is easier to learn how to play against other heroes. some people don't like turn rates and attack animations being slow though so they just don't like Dota. It is what it is.
It's just the bad apples talking loudly. I and many others here have played different games in this genre and I don't have any ill-will towards them.
Just rib them about Dota mechanics
Right. Dota 2 was voice, text chat, commrose, and limited ping interactions (Getting better each patch)
LoL has text chat and a very extensive ping system to make up for lack of voice (A decision was made to not include voice)
Being able to immediately tell your allies things is very important due to the nature of these games and I don't think any other moba supports voice.
Dimitri LH
Member
Great thread for the people wondering about MOBA's
Ive been playing League since Season 1.
I from time to time play Infinite Crisis, for a change of pace.
Ive been playing League since Season 1.
I from time to time play Infinite Crisis, for a change of pace.
I have always wanted to get into these games but their reputation of non noob friendly keeps me away. I have them all installed on my PC but they scare the crap out of me. Dawngate appears to be the easiest for now to get in until Blizzards goes public.
Anyone know if there are bot matches in Dawngate? I have been looking around in their client and I can not find the option.
Anyone know if there are bot matches in Dawngate? I have been looking around in their client and I can not find the option.
You put Super in the flowchart, but not its predecessor!
Yeah. I got into the beta a few months before it went open, and at the end of the day all the issues I had with the game came down to the fact that I wanted more Monday Night Combat, but the game was DotA Night Combat. It didn't appeal enough to me and I bailed out, but the people who stayed then went and helped get the community fractured until UberEnt gave up.
So, in current news, the next MOBA/Hero Brawler I'll give a fair shot to will probably be HotS.
TharpDaddy
Member
No bot matches in Dawngate as of yet, unfortunately. Might as well just hop in with 2 feet. So far i've found the community in Dawngate to not be bad at all. Only had 1 match with a rager.
Xbox 360 before party chat was full of voice communication between strangers. Halo 3 made it super easy to party up with someone you just played and communicated well with and it was an excellent way to make friends. Good communication on consoles did exist at one time, however it seems to have faded quite a bit with the inclusion of party chat.
Doesn't losing vision of someone in Dota pull this away? I don't really think it's a valid way to really get a quick read on matchups...
The ability spam in League means you're going to see what the enemy is capable of a lot and you just judge things from there.
And I was so convinced I was the only one who plays infinite Crisis.
I'm still surprised Natus Vincere started an IC team.
Alright will do.. thanks for intel!
SteveWinwood
Member
Do you mean cs?
NaVi has been around long before infinite crisis.
Ohhhhh I read it as started as an. I'm dumb.
I think he means that IC almost dropped off the map do much that it's surprising a major pro gaming organization made a team for it .
At least that is what I got from it.
That's exactly what I mean.
Given the popularity of Infinite Crisis I'm surprised that a major organisation like Navi made a team for IC.
i cannot endorse a moba thread that doesnt have this in its OT
So which one do I play?
The one where you have friends to play with. Mobas can have some painful communities, mostly due to the nature of their design. To ease the transition into playing these games - play with friends! It's always more fun playing together.
So which one do I play?
The one where you have friends to play with. Mobas can have some painful communities, mostly due to the nature of their design. To ease the transition into playing these games - play with friends! It's always more fun playing together.
Day sight range and laning at level 1-3 is decently passive enough in most cases, or just hovering over a Lion at level 11 does 540 on ult in midgame. Or something like Phoenix where you'd have to memorize how many hits to kill his Ult.
It's how I learned in my games of dota. I played support and read what the heroes did while I denied and pulled. Because so much more of dota is pre-engagement (Due to CC and lack of summoners) it's how I went about learning it while trying to not feed.
I was playing a bot game vs Nunu/Shen.
- What is this thing on my head
- What range is safe
- How much burst can they do at any given level
- How long does this slow last
- How does this slow scale
- What is that shield, how long does it last
If I'm laning against Bane I see he has a 4 second 500 range disable at level 1. If I see a DoT and I can determine what level it is by hovering over. Yes, LoL doesn't have this kind of high impact nuke hero (Like say many supports at level 5), but not having that information is far worse and I really don't understand how it's not in the game as a hover over. I guess it's too resource intensive and people just play and ask questions to each other or everyone knows everything anyway.
SteveWinwood
Member
The thing that drives me nuts is you can't see the scaling until you actually have the point to spend. No fuck that.
Yeah I read it right now :X
I was gonna message you and you weren't online.
TheFightingFish
Member
I've actually just started playing my first MOBA recently, with Smite and I really enjoy it. I'd been interested in the genre before, but it had some stuff that had put me off trying it (game length, complexity, nasty communities, fear of sucking enough to ruin the game for everyone else). So far Smite has been perfect for me. Matches seem a bit shorter than MOBA standard, at least versus most of the DOTA matches that I've watched. The map is small and the action tends to heat up really quickly into the game, regardless of lane or role. I play M+K, but I've always been terrible at splitting my attention around a map in RTS games and controlling multiple units, so Smite having no controllable minions and an over-the-shoulder perspective works really well for me.
Also my big fear around the game, being that I would suck and ruin the game for everyone else, has not turned out to be an issue. Not saying that I don't suck sometimes, that's a given, but I'm a team player and like to fill the less liked roles so even if I'm not having a great game so in general I don't draw any wrath even in a bad game as I'm usually helping out the team and not feeding too badly.
Also my big fear around the game, being that I would suck and ruin the game for everyone else, has not turned out to be an issue. Not saying that I don't suck sometimes, that's a given, but I'm a team player and like to fill the less liked roles so even if I'm not having a great game so in general I don't draw any wrath even in a bad game as I'm usually helping out the team and not feeding too badly.
increased global gold gains
gold from ward deaths
corki came out before gyro
earthspirit is the leegest thing ive ever seen
axe ultimate resets on kill
things league hasnt influenced dota2:
-no surrender
SteveWinwood
Member
I disagree with the new title.
voice chat
SteveWinwood
Member
fun
yeah i mean just look at the difference between urf and wtf.
oh err things league hasnt influenced dota
-community communication
TwiztidElf
Member
Awesomenauts is so amazingly under-rated.
I spent a heck of a lot of the weekend playing it. Excellent fun, and none of the hate or pressure of LoL.
Anyone wanting to dabble or dip their toe in MOBA's could do a lot worse than Awesomenauts. Easy to get games on the PS4 right now.
Teaches a lot of MOBA tropes which are portable to LoL and DOTA2 and the like.
I spent a heck of a lot of the weekend playing it. Excellent fun, and none of the hate or pressure of LoL.
Anyone wanting to dabble or dip their toe in MOBA's could do a lot worse than Awesomenauts. Easy to get games on the PS4 right now.
Teaches a lot of MOBA tropes which are portable to LoL and DOTA2 and the like.
someguyinahat
Member
Tried playing Heroes of Newerth. Went through all the in-game tutorials. That seemed okay. It recommended that if you were a new player not to charge up the middle path to start. Seemed fair advice.
Try my first game, head down the lower path. Someone immediately tells me in text chat, "Y U BOT?" I said, "I'm not a bot, I'm a human." It wasn't until after the game - and I use that term loosely, I'll get to that later - that he was chastising me for using the bottom lane. Apparently the character I chose was a "carry" class - something the tutorial didn't explain - and my job was apparently to go up the middle path. After a few minutes my team started complaining that it was a 5-on-4 match (in other words, that I wasn't even there.) The entire team quit leaving me alone. I decided to just let the opponents win so I could just get the experience because at the time you could use that to get more characters instead of just choose one of a rotating ten. No such luck. The game apparently didn't count because my team didn't have enough players or something.
Second game went pretty much exactly the same. I couldn't do anything right, team rage quit, still no experience.
I asked GAF for help after that, and the gaffers were at least more cordial. They took me through some practice but recommended I go to some off-site pages and to spend a few hours reading up on how to play it before I actually play it.
That's when I uninstalled the game and decided never to bother with another MOBA.
Glorious Ownage
Member
Love awesomenauts. Been playing it almost everyday on ps4
The support role in League is kind of more active. You don't really have time to read too much.
Technically speaking, the "thing over your head" would have a debuff that tells you exactly what it does if you mouse over it, and it would display the duration as well. Most debuffs have pretty clear effects, and the burst that enemies are capable of is usually fairly obvious. The same goes for a shield the enemy would use. If you see it once you suddenly know what it does, and regular ability use is common in League, with each being less threatening for a player to test by coming into contact with.
you did it
SteveWinwood
Member
First I've heard that.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Exploratory
Banned
OP I suggest you add an actual description of what the gameplay is. Like what are you actually doing from moment to moment. Not the actual objective but what are you doing (I originally thought mobas were like action RPGs with multiple heroes).
Also a gameplay video.
Also a gameplay video.
League has fewer systems overhead but relies more on regular trading. I didn't really think it would be a controversial thing, particularly when more warding has to be done in League. Dota supports also have to tend to those higher level systems (like stacking and pulling) in a way that pulls them away from active combat.