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Jez Corden has heard that Apple is poaching Xbox engineers to make it's own console

Dream-Knife

Banned
Like Macs, no one is going to make games for a unique system anymore. Nintendo is the biggest console and still people don't want to put games on it.

Of course if Apple places it as a premium product people will buy it because they're petty.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
When you shotgun ideas long enough they might come true.

I remember people talking about Apple watch ideas on Yahoo Finance stock board in the 2000s. Out of all the shit they said, watches came true like a decade later. And at that time, its not like people were talking being hooked up to the net all that. It's was more about stylish traditional watches with an Apple twist to it. Not the whole touch screen thing you got with iWatch. So they got the product right, but the functionality totally wrong.
 
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bender

What time is it?
He's waiting...

giphy.gif
 

FrankCaron

Member
Apple already has a home console: the Apple TV.

PS4/5 and Xbox One / XS controllers work perfectly. There is nothing else hardware wise coming from them in the living room that will play games, aside from whenever the inevitable combination HomePod + Apple TV w/ camera launches, to enable FaceTime on the couch. Apple Arcade already encompasses the TV form factor and works just fine.

As always, the issue is the games, not the hardware.
 
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reksveks

Member
I think hardware wise they could do a good job but I think they might fuck it up with the cost and the software. It's similar to the Apple TV.
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
SONY and Nintendo fanboys love to see Apple poaching xbox engineers and hope to walk away this generation as winners despite recent acquisitions.
 

yurinka

Member
Just because you have people who know how to develop a laptop doesn't mean those same people know how to develop a games console, c'mon. Besides it is about much more than just the hardware; API libraries are also important and those are often tailored to specific hardware implementations as well. Also it's rather foolish to think they should prioritize what engineers they get based on what the console has sold in the market; a console's sales are in no way dominantly dictated by how well-engineered or powerful it is. Otherwise many older systems would've been not only market leaders but been leaders in every single territory their system was in. That is very clearly not the case when looking at actual prior console generations.

Considering their experience with large-scale API libraries having cross-platform support between embedded systems (like Xbox consoles) PCs, and servers, and considering Apple are in those same segments while also desiring to leverage existing APIs and features tailored to an embedded systems design, it actually makes a lot of sense they'd want various Microsoft engineers to provide their talents in such an area.
In terms of hardware an iPad Mini is basically a Switch with other brand for the APU, and an Xbox basically a PC plugged to a tv. And in fact the hardware from smartphones, tablets, handheld consoles, home consoles and PC is becoming essentially the same, unlike many years ago they now share a lot of stuff. Obviously each device is different but compared to many years ago now they are way more similar.

Also please notice that the ones they are poaching are the Xbox ones, not the DirectX ones. Microsoft's gamig API is DirectX, being used on Xbox and Windows (not in phones or servers). Regarding crossplatform APIs Apple also has big experience sharing their stuff between their Apple iOS, MacOS, watchOS and tvOS devices. They are pretty much integated into an unified ecosystem where UI, controls or the enabled features are adapted to each OS but most of the other things are the same.

That's not how it works; you're vastly oversimplifying the work that goes into creating a dedicated gaming system, as in something which vertically integrates hardware specifications, software specifications (API libraries, general code libraries, documentation, debug testing etc.) and more, into a static design whose specifications are set in stone for the next several years.
I'm a game programmer who made games for PC and mobile even before Steam, Unreal Engine (well, on its current super multiplatform 'free' form), Unity, iOS/App Store or Android/Google Play existed and the hardware not only between mobile and PC, but even between different phones was huge and it was a pain in the ass to do everything by ourselves.

Now things are way simpler because the harware is more similar everywhere, platform/store specifications standarized way more than before. It's still a pain in the ass to fill all these huge checklists specially in console, but in the past for phones & tablets now we have the Apple App Store and the Google Play ones, while in the past we had many for each phone brand manufacturer (some of our games were installed/bundled in the phone once you bought them) and many for the phone ISPs that sometimes even did have different ones for each country (before having Apple App Store or Google Play, the digital games for phones were bought at digital stores of the phone manufacturers or your local phone ISP).

Now there are also way less OS, APIs and game engines, and are way better once because they already implement a ton of work we the gamedevs had to do in the past. Regarding APIs guess what, Direct X is for PC and Xbox and has pros and cons, being a huge con that it isn't available on the other consoles, PC operative systems like Linux or MacOS or in phones. So this is why the crossplatform OpenGL, Vulkan and so on got so popular on multiplatform projects. These new OS, APIs and engines do a great job covering tons of devices partly because the hardware became so similar to a point where many game devs mostly don't care while in the past we had to carefully plan everything to put a game in phones that didn't accept games bigger than 128KB, 64KB or even 30KB (vs now we saw GT7 being 110GB, nice optimization! xD).

By your notion Sony could just take one of their random smartphones, pair it with a DualSense and viola! They have a new PlayStation Portable! Clearly wouldn't be the case now, would it?
In the Apple Store they sell DualSense gamepads to play PS Now and Remote Play on your iPhone or iPad. You can also use them on Android. In the past Sony made the Xperia Play, a phone that had games compatible with their portables.

If desired yes, they could release some of their games on phones similar to what games like Fortnite do. They don't do it because their focus is console and want to save giving 30% of the revenue to Apple or Google (see the case of Epic) because they have the monopoly of selling games on their platforms. But the userbase of mobile became way huger than console to the point where they are working to bring their IPs to mobile, even if I assume that will be making games designed to the horsepower and controls of mobile devices instead of porting directly their console games.

That's only one side of the equation. You know as well as I that a "proper" console also needs to have features and content specific to its ecosystem in order to incentivize clients into that ecosystem and keep them there, which means major development investments from the platform holders.
Apple already has a gazillion players, and a ton of devs including most of the popular console ones already working for their devices (and not only the announced ones ;)).

Remember that Apple makes more revenue from gaming than MS (with the ABK acquisition MS will pass Apple) or Nintendo even if they don't publish games and without having a console. Simply by collecting the 30% of what their game store, game microtransactions on their OS and game subscription generates.

Ensuring Unity/UE support their APUs and OS (BTW what incentives could Apple provide to ensure this for those engine owners beyond what they already provide?) would be the bare minimum thing for Apple to do.
True, this is why they partner with them to get their new stuff supported day one (or asap, in a few cases new stuff wasn't supported day one).

This still does very little in and of itself, because either Apple would then need to retroactively add support for that controller to ALL of the games currently on their Apple Arcade platform, or they'd need to convince 3rd-party developers to do it themselves.

Either way, it would be a large undertaking and involve a lot of resources (and time) either way, they can't just simply release the controller and magically everything works with it.
Both on iOS and Android there's a standard unified controller support which supports tons of 3rd party controllers. Hundreds or thousands of native mobile games already support them. Or you can use these pads to play Remote Play, Game Pass Ultimate or (soon) PS Now and so on.

They can make a new controller that uses that same standard controller support (so instantly would be supported by them), or simply adopt one of the many already supported ones. Then they should add a filter for the store to show only games with controller support, filter that would be always enabled in the version of the store for the console.

When Apple wants to see games supporting some new feature, hardware, accesory or OS, Apple doesn't touch the games, instead they typically use three ways to 'convince' 3rd party devs to adopt their new stuff:
-One is to add a new dedicated filter, or dedicated featuring in the store for games that support this new stuff if it's something optional, so devs implement it to get some visibility in the ultra crowded store.
-Other one is to require mandatory support of that stuff on the checklist of things that they require to the games that get submitted to them to be released or updated, so starting a certain day no games get released or updated unless they support that stuff.
-Other one is to say that they will remove all the games of the store that don't support that stuff, so devs get fucked off if don't update their game.

Also, well this is more in general but, I don't see why people are underestimating Apple's ability to deliver a proper games console. I know the Pippin is a meme, but it was also 26 years ago, from a really bad spot in Apple's history. If they managed to turn around in general, what makes you think they couldn't do such with a video game system? They obviously have a lot more resources and experience since the '90s, and a lot more data on the market to have observed and learned from.
Pippin was a failure, but they are now in a very different position.

Looking at their smartphone, tablet or watch hardware sales I'm pretty sure Apple's console will outsell Xbox, PS and Switch. Even if we only look at their mobile gaming userbase and revenue, iPhone and iPad already are the top performing gaming devices.

If they release an Apple gamepad (compatible with iPhone, iPad, Mac and their console) and related store (or proper store section for gamepad games on iPhone, iPad, Mac) they already would get way more support for traditional gamepad based games. And releasing the console, will get even more. As in Switch, AAA support will depend on horsepower available.

Given their brand power alone, I strongly doubt a new Apple gaming console would perform anywhere near as badly as the Pippin, and I think that scares some people. That said I think there are other reasons why they aren't seriously considering a dedicated gaming console: what could Apple address in terms of the gaming market that Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo aren't already addressing in one way or another?
What can Apple provide that they can't, which benefits the market both for developers and for gamers? What value proposition in terms of content, pricing, and experience could Apple provide that the Big 3 cannot?
If they can't answer those questions clearly and concisely, then you're not going to get a dedicated gaming system from them. Period.

As happens with Nintendo, to release any product with the Apple logo on it means millions of people will go to buy it just because has the Apple logo on it. Doesn't matter if the competition has better specs or content, doesn't matter if heavily overpriced, doesn't matter if the user doesn't need at all the things it adds compared to the other ones.

Many Apple fans will buy it only because it's an Apple product. And they only need a small portion of Apple fans to turn it into the best selling console ever. So they will become the most important company in gaming, even beyond mobile.

It's confirmed that Google, Microsoft and Apple spy their users to sell data to marketing firms and to multiple intelligence government agencies from multiple countries, but Sony and Nintendo don't (or at least isn't known). Sony and Nintendo combined are over 200M users that maybe aren't properly spied while playing, so their clients would like too cover that too.

Then there's many iPad and iPhone games playable with a controller, but using a 3rd party one when they could be using a $400 Apple gamepad instead which would provide many profits for Apple not only from the gamepad, but from the related revenue increase of these games.

Same goes with playing on the tv: there are many ways to play your iPhone and iPad games streamed on a tv, but for Apple it would be better using a $2000 Apple console. Specially to get a chunk -if not all- of these ~300M console+Steam players into the Apple ecosystem.

I mention Mac because since basically their console, smartphone, tablet and PC will have basically the same OS, hardware and games, it will mean that Mac finally will get a good amount of gamepad based games, something always Mac users missed and the main reason of why many people did got a Windows PC instead.
 

rolandss

Member
Gaming is bigger than Hollywood and the music industry combined, and Apple already play heavily in this space with causal and mobile titles through the App Store, and with their own sub service Apple Arcade. I’m kinda surprised they haven’t gone after the more “hardcore” crowd already.

Their M1 and M1 Pro/Max chips are pretty capable. With their silicon capabilities and a dedicated GPU I’m confident they could make a pretty good console in the form of a beefed up Apple TV, that’d have a slick UI and probably be good overall.

But It’ll probably cost $1000 in a market where another consoles are like $700 (I’m talking AUD). I think being a new entrant to the console market is also a really hard slog. People don’t just flock to your console for a handful of titles. It takes years and years and massive amounts of money to build a library of games and titles that’ll attract a big enough audience.
 

Knightime_X

Member
How seriously some of you take your feelings toward certain companies make you sound ridiculous
When companies charge you $15+ for a charger cable yet android is only $5 I have every right to feel the way I do.

Everything apple is always expensive for no reason what so ever.

Apple can take their over priced trash and fuck allllll the way off.
 
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If true, which I highly doubt, then I don't think Apple understands its marketing environment and demographics very well. Apple customers love the fancy mobile phones, ipads, and laptops, but a gaming console is not something even Apple fans will widely adopt.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
Oh great.., I can't wait to play games with Apple's new "innovative" and patented one-button controller with a screen on the bottom.
 
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ZehDon

Gold Member
If they’re trying to go the route of bespoke hardware, after the industry has almost universally arrived at x86 architecture, Apple will find itself with a wonderful box that no one will develop for.

If they’re just going to have another x86 console, they’ll have the same third party games everyone else minus the deep established stables of Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, and no one will buy it. If it’s priced like Apple hardware, it’ll be DOA.

If they have an x86 box, and buy up a major publisher, and start making first party games to compete, and loss lead on the hardware, then they’re about still seven years away from the start of the next generation cycle, as launching mid-cycle is a death sentence.

In any case: good luck! Microsoft’s been here 20 years, and they’re still trying for second place.
 
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Three

Member
If they’re trying to go the route of bespoke hardware, after the industry has almost universally arrived at x86 architecture, Apple will find itself with a wonderful box that no one will develop for.

If they’re just going to have another x86 console, they’ll have the same third party games everyone else minus the deep established stables of Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo, and no one will buy it. If it’s priced like Apple hardware, it’ll be DOA.

If they have an x86 box, and buy up a major publisher, and start making first party games to compete, and loss lead on the hardware, then they’re about still seven years away from the start of the next generation cycle, as launching mid-cycle is a death sentence.

In any case: good luck! Microsoft’s been here 20 years, and they’re still trying for second place.
If there is any truth to this rumour (which I doubt) it's more likely that they are trying to make Apple TV more of a games machine and will not expect a high price or high spec x86 machine. Mobile games like Fortnite on a TV. May even end up streaming only and the xbox engineers are just that.
 
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Drew1440

Member
Reminded me of this old Youtube gem



Plus a console with the M1 Max in the iPad Pro (Or the follow-up version) would be interesting to see.
 
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Sad thing is you can pretty much put any price on an Apple console and their userbase would lap it up….they are worse than your hardcore PlayStation console warriors
 
SONY and Nintendo fanboys love to see Apple poaching xbox engineers and hope to walk away this generation as winners despite recent acquisitions.
The MS acquisitions won't make a difference until like 2024 best chance scenario.
By then the PS5 will still be ahead and Nintendo will be selling out whatever the Switch successor is.
Meanwhile everyone in here will be outdated and will still be fighting over hardware numbers while both MS and Sony are walking away from relying on that and going for a "play our games anywhere" approach.

There's your future right here.
 

Duchess

Member
If true, knowing Apple:

PS5: £449
Xbox Series X: £449
Apple Box Station: £899 (256GB SSD option)

Edit: when purchasing, you'd have the option to trade in a PS5 or XSX, to save £100
 
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It's confirmed that Google, Microsoft and Apple spy their users to sell data to marketing firms and to multiple intelligence government agencies from multiple countries, but Sony and Nintendo don't (or at least isn't known). Sony and Nintendo combined are over 200M users that maybe aren't properly spied while playing, so their clients would like too cover that too.

I generally agree with the other points you mentioned and it would seem we both agree that Apple could make a much more successful gaming system initiative nowadays given their brand power and resources, but I just wanted to quickly focus on the bolded, because it isn't quite accurate. The following is from Sony's own privacy policy statement:

When and With Whom Sony May Share Information Collected
We may share non-Personal Information, such as aggregate user statistics, demographic information, and Usage Information with third parties for a variety of purposes, including tailoring Sony promotions, advertising and communications we present to you.

There are a few other instances where Sony have had requests from agencies like the FBI to provide specific user data in particular criminal case investigations, but this is normal of any company is is equivalent to the cases in which companies like Microsoft provide such information: the agency in question (FBI, NSA etc.) have to have probable cause and a reason to request that user data in the first place.

I would also say that this tends to be the case with Apple and Google as well, though in Google's case it is a bit trickier because they have a known documented history of attempting to curry favor with governments like the CCP to get entry in certain foreign markets, necessitating methods of monitoring and data collection that could then have been ported out to service implementations for other markets/territories.
 

ZehDon

Gold Member
If there is any truth to this rumour (which I doubt) it's more likely that they are trying to make Apple TV more of a games machine and will not expect a high price or high spec x86 machine. Mobile games like Fortnite on a TV. May even end up streaming only and the xbox engineers are just that.
That's not the premise being floated by the rumour and thread title, and I don't think it makes sense. Given Apple and Epic's heavy falling out, I doubt the goal is making a new Apple TV that is capable of running Fortnite. Gaming is coming under focus from major tech companies for many different reasons - one being the huge amount of money it brings in. Microsoft has the Xbox. Facebook has the Oculus Quest. Google tried - and failed - with Stadia. It makes sense for Apply to try its hand, and in an equally large way. Running mobile games on a streaming box doesn't fit the size of the plays the other giants are making. Will it be Apple's own "Xbox", or some kind of Switch-like hybrid Phone that can dock to a TV and run full fat games? Who knows. But I don't see Apple's big move being an Apple TV running Angry Birds.
 

bitbydeath

Member
It’s a good guess since Apple are notably working on VR. But this is just yet another Twitter person that’s wrong 99% of the time.
 

Bogeyman

Banned
I wonder if they could have some sort of docking station for iPhones. Or maybe some sort of beefed up version of an iPhone?

Their chips are obviously fairly competent these days. Could imagine a device like that would be a crossover between mobile phone and Nintendo switch; phone portable gaming, and docked gaming all in one.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Applestation 64gb - £599
Applestation 128gb - £699
Applestation 248gb - £799

Applestation HDMI cable - £29.99
Applestation Controller £149.99

Can’t wait.

Apple TV can do 4K and supports Xbox and PS controllers… what could they do in a “console” to make it any different than that? It is not a HW problem, they have more grunt than Switch in some areas still… 🤷‍♂️.
 

eNT1TY

Member
I would buy a console created purely out of covid cells that instantly gave you cancer before I would ever remotely consider buying apple anything.
Why,? They are made by the same children that make the shit that you DO buy likely under the same roofs.
 

tommib

Member
This is the biggest pile of crap news I’ve seen. Apple engineers do everything their own way and they’re some of the best. Why would they need Microsoft to help them design a console around their state of the art processors.

Such nonsense.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
They already have the biggest piece of the pie.

They don't have a dedicated video game console, unless I've been missing out on something.

They want a piece of that slice too, and I wouldn't blame them for wanting to.
 

TAS

Member
If Apple wanted to buy one of the 3, I think it would be Nintendo. It will never happen because Nintendo is too proud of a company but the idea of Nintendo games on cutting edge hardware doesn't sound that bad actually. 🤔
 

Barakov

Gold Member
Why would they need that? Just create a launcher inside your tablets and iPhones for proper games and you're good to go.
This is probably what Apple would do. Apple got into games in a way that made sense for them and I'd be pretty surprised if they made a straight-up console. They would have a pretty rough time trying to get people to buy a new console every year. That strategy might work for some people with their tablets and phones but I think a console is a different beast.
 
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