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[DownLikeBCPowder]

16 demo started okay enough, it had a big cinematic set piece and some basic combat that you expect to grow.
Then you play the game and it showr that it really is nothing but really Hollow combat with some high budget cutscenes and QTEs.
Remake is far better since it actually has a good combat system.

I mean that the XVI demo is a great slice of the game and sets high expectations - Rebirth demo, IMO, doesn't do that.

 

[Whitecrow]

Still, FFXVI had some memorable moments, and almost no anime BS tropes, which sucks in FF7R.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Oh boy. I really hated "it was everything better in the past mentallity ". What was better in the old days? The only thing for me is that jrpgs were mainstream 20 years ago I miss the days.

That's not what I said I was referring specifically to how there's no consistency from devs from one game to the next with graphics and performance. We get one game that came out on ps4 then the devs next game is on ps5 but doesn't have better graphics (ff7>integrade)..and maybe they screwed up the HDR this time even tho previous game did it well (hitman 2>3) ..and it has an issue with deadzones (re4 remake) or a game gets made "from the ground up" on new hardware but doesn't look next gen despite having all this extra hardware power (last of us 2>Lou part 1 remake)

I don't think games in general are worse in modern times (though rpgs used to be written better I'll say that)

 

[Fabieter]

That's not what I said I was referring specifically to how there's no consistency from devs from one game to the next with graphics and performance. We get one game that came out on ps4 then the devs next game is on ps5 but doesn't have better graphics (ff7>integrade)..and maybe they screwed up the HDR this time even tho previous game did it well (hitman 2>3) ..and it has an issue with deadzones (re4 remake) or a game gets made "from the ground up" on new hardware but doesn't look next gen despite having all this extra hardware power (last of us 2>Lou part 1 remake)

I don't think games in general are worse in modern times (though rpgs used to be written better I'll say that)

I think its premature to call this game worse than ffviir when we dont know the whole game and scale yet.

 

[Lethal01]

Still, FFXVI had some memorable moments, and almost no anime BS tropes, which sucks in FF7R.

Anime tropes are the best part, can't wait for the beach episode.

 

[Bojji]

Anime tropes are the best part, can't wait for the beach episode.

I watch anime since 1997 but most of the tropes just suck, many series would be better without them.

 

[Hudo]

Still, FFXVI had some memorable moments, and almost no anime BS tropes, which sucks in FF7R.

You'd need to boot Nomura off the project. Dude loves his anime tropes and timeline/multiverse stuff.

Imagine a new mainline Final Fantasy directed by Matsuno. But this time without management trying meddle.

 

[Lethal01]

I watch anime since 1997 but most of the tropes just suck, many series would be better without them.

nah

 

[Madflavor]

Not entirely sure what's going on, but it does seem like Lighting is making a big play on why Cloud's face looks bad in certain spots. Here though it looks totally fine.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Looks like the LOD isn't set up right. To be frank, this is a demo and demo's aren't typically running on the final build of the game.

 

[Lethal01]

Not entirely sure what's going on, but it does seem like Lighting is making a big play on why Cloud's face looks bad in certain spots. Here though it looks totally fine.

Yes, this is literally the norm for all modern games, put them in a spot with bad lighting and they fall apart. Its weally nothing to make a big deal out of, unlike the textures.

 

[saintjules]

I mean that the XVI demo is a great slice of the game and sets high expectations - Rebirth demo, IMO, doesn't do that.

While it may take a second demo to do it, we have the Junon demo next week. Maybe it may impress you more so.

 

[The artful mincer]

Okay graphics obsessed Morons listen up because here are your choices!

FFVII Remake, Ghost of Tsushima and Last of Us Part 2 all released about 4 months from each other.

A sequel to one of those games releases in 2 weeks we've heard nothing about the other 2. Sony have just announced that they don't have any major releases planned until March 2025.

So here are your choices would you rather Square Enix focused on shipping the game in a reasonable amount of time with a seemingly shit ton of unique content and assets in a very ambitious open world. (There’s exactly zero chance that Ghost 2 and Naughty Dogs next game match them in this)

Or should they continue to chase the graphics dragon against studios with more resources and better selling franchises just to please a bunch of unpleasable nerds on the internet likely extending dev time and budget in the process.

Frankly if you pick option 2 you're ridiculous and will be the death of this franchise.

Everyone's been crying about UNSUSTAINABLE development times well here's one accept good enough graphics.

For once Square Enix is ahead of curveball. Picking UE4 instead of UE5 was absolutely the right choice. It's resulted in the most ambitious JRPG perhaps ever?

But hey clouds face looking bad when zoomed in and some rough textures aren't apparently worth all that!

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Not watching, but supposedly this footage looks better than the demo.

 

[Bojji]

Not watching, but supposedly this footage looks better than the demo.

Good character models but textures quality is absolutely bad:

 

[Lethal01]

Or should they continue to chase the graphics dragon against studios with more resources and better selling franchises

Lets choose this one

 

[Rickyiez]

For those who are saying it's just a demo, it's main purpose is to build hype and sell people on the game. It shouldn't look this rough.

It's different from beta

 

[DownLikeBCPowder]

While it may take a second demo to do it, we have the Junon demo next week. Maybe it may impress you more so.

Well, I'm not saying it was bad or anything. XVI's was just very good!

 

[64bitmodels]

And yet all you guys talk about is the graphics meanwhile I was actually impressed with how much improvement they made to the combat, particularly the arial combat and SUPER GLAD they brought back precision block from Intermission DLC.

This was same case when Elden Ring beta came out, entire conversation sounding it was all about graphics and how "it looks like PS3 game".

You guys need accept the fact majority of Japanese devs (maybe other than Kojima) are not obsess with tech like western devs are.

We are going through the same crap when Monster Hunter Wild gets demo.

This excuse works for games that are functioning properly an don't have n64 textures as a result of texture streaming problems. Not so much well for... this.

 

[The artful mincer]

Lets choose this one

Let's not.

 

[Facism]

Good character models but textures quality is absolutely bad:

It's crazy, cos you're seeing a load of geometry/tessellation on the stonework when Red meets you, but it's all so low res, it looks like a mess.

 

[Euler007]

Ugh. Gotta give up and play it at 30fps mode. FF7 Intergrade was basically perfect for performance and IQ, but artistic directors just need to add grass until they kill performance.

 

[Kumomeme]

demo is not a beta or alpha test.

 

[Outlier]

Still, FFXVI had some memorable moments, and almost no anime BS tropes, which sucks in FF7R.

I know what you mean, but I don't think people remember that the original FF7 had some of those characteristics. They were just limited by the tech to show it.

The sequels are just ramping up how obvious it is not very grounded in realistic behavior.

 

[Dorago]

What happens when you outsource to ten lowest bidder in India because the hundreds of six figure DEI hires can’t even use Excel much less code a game?

 

[King Dazzar]

Good to see that due to people flagging concerns based off of the demo. That SE have confirmed they are working to address it.

 

[RoadHazard]

Ok, i thought this was just a lightining issue, but there's clearly a lot more wrong here.




In the original notice how Cloud moves his eyes, how be blinks, there are even very subtle lip movements. In this demo his face is completly static, like a clay doll.

There IS one explanation for it though (a very light spoilery one), and that is they're using a different character model for this Cloud because this is a flashback from the past, thus he should look younger. Then they cut corners with this specific model since it wouldn't be used a lot.

What the hell happened, lol. This is like going from PS4 to PS2 character model quality (MAYBE PS3 if I'm being generous).

 

[FoxMcChief]

Good character models but textures quality is absolutely bad:

Yikes. I’m finally getting around to downloading the demo right now.

 

[Jigsaah]

OOF...hopefully this gets ironed out for the PC release.

 

[cormack12]

Good to see that due to people flagging concerns based off of the demo. That SE have confirmed they are working to address it.

What have they said?

 

[Madflavor]

 

[King Dazzar]

What have they said?

Worth checking the demo again on the 21st...

 

[Reallink]

Confirmation the demo is the retail launch build, to the surprise of no one with half a brain.

 

[Lethal01]

Lemme Know when they fix the real issues present in all modes, the crappy textures and lighting

 

[Gambit2483]

demo is not a beta or alpha test.

No, but it's not the final product either. I've never seen so much outcrying and fine tooth analysts over a demo.

I mean there's nothing wrong with pointing these things out but it feels like way too much effort and energy is going into this over a demo. If the final release has several issues, sure, fine...but i swear sometimes it feels like people want to just complain about any and everything.

 

[Kumomeme]

No, but it's not the final product either. I've never seen so much outcrying and fine tooth analysts over a demo.

I mean there's nothing wrong with pointing these things out but it feels like way too much effort and energy is going into this over a demo. If the final release has several issues, sure, fine...but i swear sometimes it feels like people want to just complain about any and everything.

for a demo, despite not a final product, there is certain standard that should be adhered as it would represent final product. certain shortcoming is accepted but something like obvious visual defect that should not be happened. different story if this is beta test. but it is not.

thats why it is called a demo, not beta test.

if anything else, a demo is the one should be most polished than final game as it is part of their marketing effort.

 

[Gambit2483]

for a demo, despite not a final product, there is certain standard that should be adhered as it would represent final product. certain shortcoming is accepted but something like obvious visual defect that should not be happened. different story if this is beta test. but it is not.

thats why it is called a demo, not beta test.

if anything else, a demo is the one should be most polished than final game as it is part of their marketing effort.

Agreed, it's not a beta, but it's also more often than not several builds behind the final product. There will often be missing effects, unpolished effects and possibly a bug or two. A demo is to give you a basic feel for how the game will look and play when you buy it but even most demos always have a disclaimer that what you are seeing and playing is not necessarily indicative of the final build. Hell, sometimes entire UIs may change or assets replaced or entirely removed. Visual effects are definitely a part of that disclaimer...sorry but its kind of stupid to think that a demo (which could be 2-3 builds old) is an exact representation of what the game will look and play like at release.

 

[Kumomeme]

Agreed, it's not a beta, but it's also more often than not several builds behind the final product. There will often be missing effects, unpolished effects and possibly a bug or two. A demo is to give you a basic feel for how the game will look and play when you buy it but even most demos always have a disclaimer that what you are seeing and playing is not necessarily indicative of the final build. Hell, sometimes entire UIs may change or assets replaced or entirely removed. Visual effects are definitely a part of that disclaimer...sorry but its kind of stupid to think that a demo (which could be 2-3 builds old) is an exact representation of what the game will look and play like at release.

i dont mind some bit blur on ground texture to be honest. im not suprise if it even same on the final game.

but the weird Cloud face is unacceptable IMO. especially considering it coming from a company with AAA reputation like Square Enix.

for comparison, the first game REMAKE demo is very well polished despite even just on base PS4. also there is history of uneven texture quality on middle chapter of that game. so when stuff like this happened again with Rebirth even if it just a demo, it kind of already set a 'flag' toward people even if it not necessary gonna represent the final product. personally due it, the concern is justified.

there is claim that the build is not same as the one at TGS. even if thats true, then the question is why they didnt just put the better build into demo as it should be the latest version of it. by now they should even has a better version than that.

 

[Lethal01]

No, but it's not the final product either. I've never seen so much outcrying and fine tooth analysts over a demo.

I mean there's nothing wrong with pointing these things out but it feels like way too much effort and energy is going into this over a demo. If the final release has several issues, sure, fine...but i swear sometimes it feels like people want to just complain about any and everything.

Devs will not hear quiet complaints of a handful of people, the level of outcry you hear on here is what it takes for messages to reach devs.
and people would rather treat the demo as the final pproduct an complain as such than take the risk of having to wait an extra 3 weeks and for the game to be out to start complaining, and then have the issue only be fixed after they beat the game.

So yeah in short, a demo moths before release is exactly when you ant to start loudly voicing critcism

 

[FoxMcChief]

I finally got around to playing the demo. I’m shocked more people aren’t complaining more about the flat voice acting.

 

[Lethal01]

I finally got around to playing the demo. I’m shocked more people aren’t complaining more about the flat voice acting.

Voice acting is one of the most praised aspect, For the japanese dub, I agree.

 

[Danjin44]

Voice acting is one of the most praised aspect, For the japanese dub, I agree.

I actually no problem with English voices in both FFVII Remake and Rebirth and I usually change to Japanese voice in If I don't like the English voices like I did with GB Relink.

 

[Kumomeme]

I finally got around to playing the demo. I’m shocked more people aren’t complaining more about the flat voice acting.

yeah the english dub is terrible. hurt my ear lol

luckly japanese voice over is available.

 

[Zuzu]

They’re going to have move to UE5 and remake a lot of the textures for the 3rd game. If they stick to UE4 then it’s going to look awfully outdated when it arrives in 5 years time or so.

 

[leizzra]

but the weird Cloud face is unacceptable IMO. especially considering it coming from a company with AAA reputation like Square Enix.

It's not that the face is weird, the model and textures are fine. It's the lighting scenario (he is in shadow, so he is lit only by sky light which doesn't produce proper shadows) and mimic that they have in idle pose (he has this stare). In cut-scenes were you have proper lighting setup and better face animations it looks great. I'm also confident that it'll look better in different scenes, because the lighting setup is changing.

As for textures I think there are few things. First of all, they have a lot of unique assets, so they have much data to fit in RAM. Those scenes are packet but probably they don't have nice streaming solution so they should think about more conservative approach to level meshing. UE4 streaming also doesn't help.

Other thing is - they are Japanese. When we went from SD to HD era Japanese games started to look worse in comparison to western games. They started catching up last gen but still they can exhibit this old approach in some instances. Square is one of those dev's that takes more time to change their habits (like with characters cloth they were making this thin planes on collars and cuffs rather to simulate the thickness of fabrics). So they can be in this 'don't care mood'. Because even if they have technical issues with textures, the famed doors from FFVII Remake would be bumped. They weren't because they probably didn't had problems with that.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Just a thought, in Rebirth it appears the entire party traverses on the screen most of time and not just the 3 members you pick. So you have many high poly models present on screen in most scenarios (5-9 characters depending on where you are in the story vs 1-3 in a lot of other games) as well as everything else. Detailed environments, large areas, sprawling towns filled with NPCs etc.... Given the constraints of UE4 which has had issues with other titles such as Star Wars that I don't think has as much to render on screen, then we're probably seeing the engine pushed to its limit on console and in the context of a large scale game at 60fps. I know they've also heavily modified UE4 for the FF7R project to get the most out of it.

Hamaguchi said moving to UE5 wasn't possible as the engine was incomplete when this game was in development and lacking key features they needed. So the game would have taken a lot longer to develop - perhaps late 2025 or longer. We also know UE5 also has had some issues on current gen consoles and so the switch probably wouldn't have been worth it. I see UE5 as an engine for the PS6 gen.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Games gonna be awesome but holy poop those textures are baaaaaaad!

Looking forward to the patch.

 

[hemo memo]

FF7R ugly doors syndrome

 

[saintjules]

timestamp (3:31)



Max ended up using upscalers via 2 daisy chain settings to achieve a pretty good quality image you can see at the last parts of the video. This was before the tweet that the visuals were going to be improved before the Junon demo is out.

I'm one of the few that didn't notice the blurriness during my playthrough (I sit about 9-10 feet from the TV - 77" OLED), so I'd hope SE can pull off something similar to what Max did.

 

[Gambit2483]

Devs will not here Quiet complaint of a handful of people, the level of outcry you hear on here is what it takes for messages to reach devs.
and people would rather treat the demo as the final pproduct an complain as such than take the risk of having to wait an extra 3 weeks and for the game to be out to start complaining, and then have the issue only be fixed after they beat the game.

So yeah in short, a demo moths before release is exactly when you ant to start loudly voicing critcism

Well I'm definitely glad the development team is fixing and improving the game so if the squeaky wheel gets the greasing then so be it.