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Sales-Age Microsoft Q1: Gaming revenue up 9%, Content & Services up 13% and Xbox hardware down 7%

When this deal was first announced everyone believed that COD would be exclusive either next year or 2025 tops. The thought of losing COD mid-generation pissed me off quite a bit, so I was completely opposed. I also was honest in that making COD exclusive soon after consoles were available without hunting twitter stock notices sounded like a serious risk for anyone not named MS. But dude, a lot changed in the last few months, specifically a guarantee that COD won't be exclusive for 10 years. So yeah, the risk is gone and I'm not pissed anymore. I bet a lot of people feel the same way.

Funny that you asked what changed in the end of the post and didn't mention the giant pink elephant in the room called a 10 year COD deal. Perhaps it's not everyone else having trouble keeping up with the narratives?
Except from the very beginning Microsoft and Phil stated that they were not planning to make COD exclusive. They said that from the very beginning and during the hearing we literally saw emails from before acquisition where they stated they did not plan to do that at all.

I know that post spring Playstation showcase, a lot of Playstation fanboys entered multiverse of madness, but trying to rewrite the history is bold.
 

NickFire

Member
Except from the very beginning Microsoft and Phil stated that they were not planning to make COD exclusive. They said that from the very beginning and during the hearing we literally saw emails from before acquisition where they stated they did not plan to do that at all.

I know that post spring Playstation showcase, a lot of Playstation fanboys entered multiverse of madness, but trying to rewrite the history is bold.
Where is the except?

Everyone knew what they said. The issue was that no one believed them. Now they put their money where their mouth is and did a 10 year deal. So now people believe them. Simple stuff really.
 

Three

Member
For the reason that MS believes that releasing its games on PC does not favor its competition on consoles (PlayStation) while profiting from the largest user base possible? Because also have interests in PC beyond publishing games?
Are they worried? Not at all, I'm sure they know well the pros and cons of supporting consoles and PC at the same time.
Well you've just gone back to what you were initially refuting, "While profiting from the largest userbase possible". You were trying to refute this idea. The point you were arguing is that they don't do this because it would mean paying 30% which outweights whatever they would make on the platform. Yet that's what they're doing on Steam anyway. Their consoles are continuing to decline 7% while doing this "not profiting from the largest userbase" too. So is it even helping?
 
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Unknown?

Member
Except from the very beginning Microsoft and Phil stated that they were not planning to make COD exclusive. They said that from the very beginning and during the hearing we literally saw emails from before acquisition where they stated they did not plan to do that at all.

I know that post spring Playstation showcase, a lot of Playstation fanboys entered multiverse of madness, but trying to rewrite the history is bold.
Nothing they say is credible, otherwise they wouldn't need to make a contract. They also said they weren't taking Bethesda games away from other platforms and they did!
 

Darsxx82

Member
When this deal was first announced everyone believed that COD would be exclusive either next year or 2025 tops. The thought of losing COD mid-generation pissed me off quite a bit, so I was completely opposed. I also was honest in that making COD exclusive soon after consoles were available without hunting twitter stock notices sounded like a serious risk for anyone not named MS. But dude, a lot changed in the last few months, specifically a guarantee that COD won't be exclusive for 10 years. So yeah, the risk is gone and I'm not pissed anymore. I bet a lot of people feel the same way.

Funny that you asked what changed in the end of the post and didn't mention the giant pink elephant in the room called a 10 year COD deal. Perhaps it's not everyone else having trouble keeping up with the narratives?
What??? 😂😂
You can't be serious... That COD was going to be released on PS and also on Switch was known since the entire acquisition process began. Then there were those of you who claimed "not to believe MS" or "what happens to all the rest of the Ips that are not going to reach Ps?? Just a few days ago.

Nothing has changed in recent months, the idea of MS remains the same. The only thing that has changed is the narrative behind the approval of the acquisition and the crude attempt to present it as a success for PlayStation and the end of Xbox console...

That is to say, we have gone from "MS wants to buy the industry to create a monopoly on consoles and destroy PlayStation" to "buy studios and publishers to become a full 3rd party and stop making consoles."

Anyway, I suppose that if now MS announces that it wants to buy Capcom, no one will object because it will be just another publisher and will stop manufacturing Xbox consoles.... There is no longer any danger🤗
 

NickFire

Member
What??? 😂😂
You can't be serious... That COD was going to be released on PS and also on Switch was known since the entire acquisition process began. Then there were those of you who claimed "not to believe MS" or "what happens to all the rest of the Ips that are not going to reach Ps?? Just a few days ago.

Nothing has changed in recent months, the idea of MS remains the same. The only thing that has changed is the narrative behind the approval of the acquisition and the crude attempt to present it as a success for PlayStation and the end of Xbox console...

That is to say, we have gone from "MS wants to buy the industry to create a monopoly on consoles and destroy PlayStation" to "buy studios and publishers to become a full 3rd party and stop making consoles."

Anyway, I suppose that if now MS announces that it wants to buy Capcom, no one will object because it will be just another publisher and will stop manufacturing Xbox consoles.... There is no longer any danger🤗
What are you talking about and why are you so mad?

But yes, the 10 year contract came about in the last few months. It did not exist before it was agreed to. Full stop, and no reason to be angry about it.
 

Darsxx82

Member
Well you've just gone back to what you were initially refuting, "While profiting from the largest userbase possible". You were trying to refute this idea.

You forgot to say "that it does not benefit its console competitor"... But good attempt to divert attention while not contributing any argument to the discussion of whether MS is going to stop making consoles that it is embracing here. ..😉
The point you were arguing is that they don't do this because it would mean paying 30% which outweights whatever they would make on the platform. Yet that's what they're doing on Steam anyway. Their consoles are continuing to decline 7% while doing this "not profiting from the largest userbase" too. So is it even helping?


No, my point is that MS has no reason in the current situation to do without in the short-medium term the income generated by its console business, which in the worst case will end the generation with 45-55 million consoles and with the potential for maintain or improve in a next generation with already its 50+ Studios working with that hardware in mind.

Do you agree? No? I dont know but muy impression Is that you embrace that new narrative that has been born. During the ABK acquisition process i remenber you defended the opposite...🤔😉
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Do you realize I said it myself? You're the one who is saying this means they're not supporting PC. You support PC by bringing games on the platform. Period. Your spinning and illogical arguments aren't working here. In order to do BOTH without losing customers, you delay the release on PC.

I never said they weren't supporting PC, I said they deliberately delay the releases to protect console sales, as releasing day and date on PC would remove some demand for the console. They've said the same.

Regarding the statistics, I don't think they accurately support the theory you are putting forward. X1 sales did soften when games went day and date on PC. They don't go away entirely because obviously there is a separate use case for console based on convenience and price and that remains even with the software day and date on PC. Demand was softened a bit though. It is going to lower the maximum number of systems that can be sold, which MS accepts because the $ they get day one on PC are worth the trade off.
 
Spanish sales this week, XBS has yet to hit 60k this year.

Spain | Week 42, 2023 | Retail | Gamereactor
  1. Super Mario Bros. Wonder (Switch): 62.000 / New
  2. Marvel's Spider-Man 2 (PS5): ~60.000 / New
  3. EA Sports FC 24 (PS4):
  4. EA Sports FC 24 (PS5):
  5. EA Sports FC 24 (Switch):
  6. Sonic Superstars (Switch): 1.800 / New
  7. Nintendo Switch Sports (Switch):
  8. Fornite Transformers Pack (PS5):
  9. The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom (Switch):
  10. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (Switch):

Sonic Superstars (ALL): 3.000 / New

New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe (Switch): ~300.000 LTD
EA Sports FC 24 (ALL): >230.000 LTD
Assassin's Creed Mirage (ALL): >15.000 LTD


Hardware:

PS5: 4.500 / >333.200 YTD
Switch: 3.500 / >253.500 YTD / >2.750.000 LTD
Meta Quest 3: >1.000 / 2.500
XBS: <500 / 58.900 YTD
 
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Darsxx82

Member
What are you talking about and why are you so mad?

But yes, the 10 year contract came about in the last few months. It did not exist before it was agreed to. Full stop, and no reason to be angry about it.
No, the deal was proposed much earlier and is the same one offered to Nintendo and Valve. MS offered it to overcome the demands of regulators and that is the reason why it has focused only on the COD IP and the rest of the IPs have been left "free" in consoles and physical/digital format.

MS has not changed its mind, MS has chosen the lesser evil that would allow it to escape the scrutiny of the regulators.

And no, the arguments against were not limited to COD, the possibility of making the rest of Ips exclusive and stopping releasing those games on PS was pointed out.

There is no need to rewrite anything. Nor is it contributing to the discussion that was being (MS Will close console bussisnes in the short terms) and the arguments for changing the narrative (before It was MS want a console Monopoly)
 
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Three

Member
You forgot to say "that it does not benefit its console competitor"... But good attempt to divert attention while not contributing any argument to the discussion of whether MS is going to stop making consoles that it is embracing here. ..😉



No, my point is that MS has no reason in the current situation to do without in the short-medium term the income generated by its console business, which in the worst case will end the generation with 45-55 million consoles and with the potential for maintain or improve in a next generation with already its 50+ Studios working with that hardware in mind.

Do you agree? No? I dont know but muy impression Is that you embrace that new narrative that has been born. During the ABK acquisition process i remenber you defended the opposite...🤔😉
Who said they have to do without it? You're the one saying they shouldn't make more money from their games because it would lead to a console sales collapse. Well it's already declining while they're doing what you think should be preventing it and you still think it's not an issue. So which is it?

A recap:
They'd make far more money by having all their games on PlayStation and Switch and taking 70% of everything (sales, MTX and subs) than being trapped on a box that's falling further and further behind those ever growing userbases.

NO, it doesn't. As big as MS is now as a game publisher, they don't make up for the loss of revenue from the 30%+ DLc+ microtransactions of the 1000 games that are released on the platform each year and that are returns at 0 cost. Not to mention that the franchises that generate the most revenue are already coming out on PS and soon on Nintendo consoles. In other words, you're dramatically reducing the number of pitches you'd generate extra returns from versus the ones you're not getting in.

When I said they're already losing 30% on steam releases and their console sales are declining regardless you said, paraphrasing here, "That's because they're profiteering from steam and shouldn't be worried about the console sales decline" which is exactly the opposite of what you were arguing as the reasons why they shouldn't. Carry on though.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
I never said they weren't supporting PC, I said they deliberately delay the releases to protect console sales, as releasing day and date on PC would remove some demand for the console. They've said the same.


If they wanted to support PC natively the games would be there day one (all of them, not just the GaaS shovelware they want to dump out there), but they aren't because they know that would lower console demand..

More simply, if they wanted to support PC and were not concerned about lowering console demand the games would be there day 1 to maximize return. Period.

You don't say "IF they wanted to support PC" if you didn't mean they were not currently supporting it.


You literally tried to tell me that they weren't. You gave me things they would have to do to support PC. If I gave you proof they were supporting PC and your response, "If they were" then you didn't believe they were supporting PC.

Regarding the statistics, I don't think they accurately support the theory you are putting forward. X1 sales did soften when games went day and date on PC. They don't go away entirely because obviously there is a separate use case for console based on convenience and price and that remains even with the software day and date on PC. Demand was softened a bit though. It is going to lower the maximum number of systems that can be sold, which MS accepts because the $ they get day one on PC are worth the trade off.
I already established how you disregard facts. The numbers speak for themselves.

The numbers are almost the same before they decided to release games on PC. Every time we have a debate, you completely ignore facts and go on with your theory without any support.

If you believed Sony was supporting PC day one then you wouldn't even bother arguing with me. You tried to tell me they were using PC just to get those PC players on console with no proof at all.
 
You can see why Phil Spencer has received the massive financial support he has when he has grown the Xbox business continually over the years, like I said he has constantly delivered.
I'm sure hardware will now show an uptick as the release schedule for the first party games ramps up, since the Gamepass subs are heavily weighted towards console though the hardware isn't going anywhere, it's essential.

michael fassbender perfection GIF

But the opposite.

Only thing Phil has delivered is a tiny amount of at best mediocre titles in over a decade. Oh yeah, and he acquired 2 very big publishers who’s quality went down the drain since they’ve been bought.

Gamepass is stagnant at best and will probably decline in numbers soon as subscribers are done with having a millions subs now for everything so the most expensive and useless will go out first.

Also, Xbox sales are plummeting down into the abyss.

But all hail Phil I guess. Because he has done something even Don Mattrick couldn’t do. Completely destroy the Xbox brand. We all don’t like the Don but he actually delivered great games and consoles and everything, since Phil has taken over Xbox is a shell of its former self.
 
For the first three years.

Or did you miss the acquisition, submissions to regulators, and court docs?
They offered 5 years till the beginning of the next gen and there was no indication that would have pulled it from Playstation. They haven't done that with Minecraft and nobody is complaining.

Basically what was happening is that a bunch of PS fanboys projecting what Sony would have done in that case. Just like they usually.
 

NickFire

Member
No, the deal was proposed much earlier and is the same one offered to Nintendo and Valve. MS offered it to overcome the demands of regulators and that is the reason why it has focused only on the COD IP and the rest of the IPs have been left "free" in consoles and physical/digital format.

MS has not changed its mind, MS has chosen the lesser evil that would allow it to escape the scrutiny of the regulators.

And no, the arguments against were not limited to COD, the possibility of making the rest of Ips exclusive and stopping releasing those games on PS was pointed out.

There is no need to rewrite anything. Nor is it contributing to the discussion that was being (MS Will close console bussisnes in the short terms) and the arguments for changing the narrative (before It was MS want a console Monopoly)
Are you seriously that upset that people did not believe MS would keep COD multiplatform for 10 years before the contract got signed? I honestly don't understand where you are going with this otherwise.

As for closing the console business, I don't think you need to worry. It's safe until the platform becomes fully cloud based. That's still a long ways off.

If you're mad that people speculate, myself included, that MS will prioritize software sales for all these acquisitions going forward above and beyond hardware sales, then sorry not sorry. This is uncharted waters where a platform owner has spent almost 100 billion. Speculation will run rampant.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
If you believed Sony was supporting PC day one then you wouldn't even bother arguing with me. You tried to tell me they were using PC just to get those PC players on console with no proof at all.

Literally never said that.

What I was getting at with PC was that if they wanted to do day and date on PC they could, and they've told us why they are not doing so (repeatedly). I also don't think the X1 sales were as strong at the end as they were in the beginning. But, it's not like I keep spreadsheets of this data around for reference.

When you come with crazy statements like "If you believed Sony was supporting PC day one then you wouldn't even bother arguing with me" I don't know what to say. What is that even, at this time we know that they aren't supporting PC day and date on their highest profile releases, that's factually correct until they change something. It's not an opinion that we can debate. Spiderman 2 isn't on PC anywhere is it or am I missing it? It isn't on PC at this moment because they want to use it to sell PS consoles, period, no discussion needed. If Starfield wasn't on PC and required an Xbox to play, MS would have sold more Xbox consoles as a result, period, no discussion needed. They probably wouldn't have earned as many $ though or sold as many copies overall, so, MS will take the PC sales and accept a smaller boost in console sales.

The companies aren't working the same business models currently and have different expectations as a result. Starfield and Spiderman 2 exemplify the differences perfectly.

The only way to play Spiderman 2 the day it launched was with a PS5. Starfield was available on PC, Xbox console, and via cloud on the day it launched, no Xbox required. That's your difference right there.

Neither is necessarily right or wrong, they are just different. One model obviously puts a lot more emphasis on selling consoles than the other, that result can't be a surprise to either party it's known to both.
 
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Darsxx82

Member
Who said they have to do without it? You're the one saying they shouldn't make more money from their games because it would lead to a console sales collapse. Well it's already declining while they're doing what you think should be preventing it and you still think it's not an issue. So which is it?
Of course, because no one is saying that MS is going to stop manufacturing consoles in the short terms and that ABK has taken the step to be a simple 3rd party 🤣🤣🤣


A recap:




When I said they're already losing 30% on steam releases and their console sales are declining regardless you said, paraphrasing here, "That's because they're profiteering from steam and shouldn't be worried about the console sales decline" which is exactly the opposite of what you were arguing as the reasons why they shouldn't. Carry on though.

No, again, that's not what I'm arguing. Of course, MS would like console sales to be better because that is where it obtains the most profitability. But a long time ago they decided that to amortize their games they needed to release them on PC as well, where they think it does not benefit their console competition (Playstation).

That is one thing, and another is the idea that MS can afford to do without that console business, that is the main source of income and channel for subscriptions to Gamepass. Because even though the sales figures currently have a negative trend.... First, that trend can stabilize or even improve and second, even in the worst case it is difficult not to bet on sales of 45-55 million at the end of the generation. That is, a base of users and income they generate that it makes no sense to get rid of, even less so when it has never been so "easy" to maintain support for your own console. And for which I believe that the "2027 Xbox console☠️" narrative (which is also a distortion of what Phil really said) is nothing short of absurd.

Nothing more, now we just need to know if you also believe that MS's idea with the purchase of ABK is to become a simple 3rd party and stop manufacturing and supporting its console. Which I repeat is the narrative that is now being defended and totally the opposite of what was defended during the ABK acquisition process.
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
Literally never said that.

What I was getting at with PC was that if they wanted to do day and date on PC they could, and they've told us why they are not doing so (repeatedly). I also don't think the X1 sales were as strong at the end as they were in the beginning. But, it's not like I keep spreadsheets of this data around for reference.

When you come with crazy statements like "If you believed Sony was supporting PC day one then you wouldn't even bother arguing with me" I don't know what to say. What is that even, at this time we know that they aren't supporting PC day and date on their highest profile releases, that's factually correct until they change something. It's not an opinion that we can debate. Spiderman 2 isn't on PC anywhere is it or am I missing it? It isn't on PC at this moment because they want to use it to sell PS consoles, period, no discussion needed. If Starfield wasn't on PC and required an Xbox to play, MS would have sold more Xbox consoles as a result, period, no discussion needed. They probably wouldn't have earned as many $ though or sold as many copies overall, so, they will take the PC sales and accept a smaller boost in console sales.

The companies aren't working the same business models currently and have different expectations as a result. Starfield and Spiderman 2 exemplify the differences perfectly.

The only way to play Spiderman 2 the day it launched was with a PS5. Starfield was available on PC, Xbox console, and via cloud on the day it launched, no Xbox required. That's your difference right there.

Neither is necessarily right or wrong, they are just different. One model obviously puts a lot more emphasis on selling consoles than the other, that result can't be a surprise to either party it's known to both.
You don't say, "If they were supporting it" unless you mean they were not supporting it.

Now you're lying. You tried to paint the narrative that they were trying to bring people to the console as their objective and your argument failed flat on its face when I started using simple logic.

My comments aren't crazy, I'm using common sense. If you release games on PC, then you're supporting the platform. You? "If ThEy WeRe SuPpOrTiNg It, ThEy WoUlD rEleSe GaMes DaY oNe."

It didn't work. Get over it.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
For the first three years.

Or did you miss the acquisition, submissions to regulators, and court docs?
Thank you.

Yeah...I guess now we at the part of the program was some of the usual suspects start rewriting history.

Seems some ppl are choosing to forget Brad Smith said look at it like Minecraft, and Phil came behind that and started hemming and hawing about current contacts.
 

Pelta88

Member
They offered 5 years till the beginning of the next gen and there was no indication that would have pulled it from Playstation. They haven't done that with Minecraft and nobody is complaining.

Basically what was happening is that a bunch of PS fanboys projecting what Sony would have done in that case. Just like they usually.

Why are you acting like we don't have the receipts?

Sony calls Microsoft’s 3-year Call of Duty sharing offer “inadequate”​

 

Darsxx82

Member
Are you seriously that upset that people did not believe MS would keep COD multiplatform for 10 years before the contract got signed? I honestly don't understand where you are going with this otherwise.

upset? That there were people who did not believe MS when they said that COD would come out on PS could be understandable. Saying that MS changed just a few months before the acquisition closed is different.

I repeat, the prejudices towards MS and the opposition to the purchase of ABK were not focused on COD, but also on the exclusivity of the rest of the IPs that also favor a monopolistic situation in consoles.
That said, we are diverting from the discussion, which is another and you mention it below.
As for closing the console business, I don't think you need to worry. It's safe until the platform becomes fully cloud based. That's still a long ways off.

That was the center of the discussion and the arguments to answer that narrative. I was simply giving arguments to some here defending that narrative that ABK is the first step for MS to abandon the console business. They talk about 2027🙃
If you're mad that people speculate, myself included, that MS will prioritize software sales for all these acquisitions going forward above and beyond hardware sales, then sorry not sorry. This is uncharted waters where a platform owner has spent almost 100 billion. Speculation will run rampant.
??? It is one thing to speculate on what MS's idea is to amortize its investment and what its intention is when it comes to managing the exclusivity or not of its software... another is to defend that the purchase of ABK is something like the sentence of death of the XBOX console in the short term... Responding to that statement I don't think it is "being upset with the speculations" 😉
 

Unknown?

Member
They offered 5 years till the beginning of the next gen and there was no indication that would have pulled it from Playstation. They haven't done that with Minecraft and nobody is complaining.

Basically what was happening is that a bunch of PS fanboys projecting what Sony would have done in that case. Just like they usually.
You're delusional. Bu bu Minecraft! Notch wouldn't sell if they made it not multiplatform.

Also look at what they said before buying Bethesda. They did the exact opposite.
 
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They offered 5 years till the beginning of the next gen and there was no indication that would have pulled it from Playstation. They haven't done that with Minecraft and nobody is complaining.

Basically what was happening is that a bunch of PS fanboys projecting what Sony would have done in that case. Just like they usually.

A condition of the sale of Minecraft was that it would be on PlayStation. If they could have pulled it they would have. They've done it with all Bethesda games and they are only contractually obliged to keep COD.
 

Jboemios

Banned
The fun fact is that even after a 70$ billion dollar acquisition for Xbox, the Shareholders just asked about Cloud and AI haha.
Of course, AI is the future.

If MS actually just stopped making hardware and became a publisher and studio it would be better for gaming and gamers. Instead of pursuing monopolies and crushing competitors, they could actually coexist with the rest of the gaming industry.
Hey Xbox stop pursuing being a Monopoly and exit the Console Market, so PlayStation can become a Monopoly. PlayStation GAF users are something else. With all those answers in this thread asking to Xbox going full third party, you know all that talk about the ABK Buyout about fear of becoming a Monopoly was pure hipocrisy.
 
A condition of the sale of Minecraft was that it would be on PlayStation. If they could have pulled it they would have. They've done it with all Bethesda games and they are only contractually obliged to keep COD.
There is no indication of that. Not to mention with Bethesda they haven't removed anything that was available on Playstation.

People really are projecting whatever Sony tends to do.
 
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but I do think it it shitty to pull franchises off of platforms that have historically had them.
Historically TES is on Playstation has always been a joke - Morrowind was not even there, Skyrim had a crappy port and Oblivion was a temporary exclusive (port quality I don't even remember).

And if Sony bought a publisher and pulled the same crap they'd be called cunts too.
Not really. People don't bother calling them out for making games exclusive, why would they do that from acquisiition. There would be a justification like "historical franchise" (just look at FF) or "it does not sell on Xbox" and so on and so on.

I'm already anticipating dozen(s) of posts blaming Xbox for CoD MW3 not receiving 90+ on Metacritic, saying MS paid too much for the deal etc etc.
I am personally expecting a tons of articles how trash COD is and probably some low scores. It will sell a lot of course though.

You're delusional. Bu bu Minecraft! Notch wouldn't sell if they made it not multiplatform.

Also look at what they said before buying Bethesda. They did the exact opposite.
You read the contract right? To know that. It is funny how people believe whatever they agree with lol. And on Bethesda - "platforms where Game Pass exists" and "case by case basis" and "established communities". Last time I checked, Playstation does not have Game Pass, some Bethesda games were still released on Playstation (including) updates and established communities (like TESO and FO76) are still receiving updates. You can't have an established community if the game is not released.
 
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NickFire

Member
I'm already anticipating dozen(s) of posts blaming Xbox for CoD MW3 not receiving 90+ on Metacritic, saying MS paid too much for the deal etc etc.

I am personally expecting a tons of articles how trash COD is and probably some low scores. It will sell a lot of course though.
Neither of you will be dissapointed in your predictions. And the best part is many of the people raging will not even be COD players.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
You don't say, "If they were supporting it" unless you mean they were not supporting it.

LOL, if you feel better about yourself and want to take ownership of the "logic" you've been putting forward, you do you.

If you think Sony isn't delaying PC releases in an effort to stimulate console sales that's your problem. Multiple Sony executives have said as much point blank. That's what we were talking about. That isn't an opinion it is reality. That might change at some point, but that's how it stands today. It's not a position that can be debated. You knew this was what I was talking about from the beginning, or should have. As that is the only way the subject relates to console sales expectations.

You are certainly free to have whatever opinions you want, and I certainly don't care about those opinions (nor do you about mine). It is what it is.

Also, I literally quoted you verbatim here:

If you believed Sony was supporting PC day one then you wouldn't even bother arguing with me. You tried to tell me they were using PC just to get those PC players on console with no proof at all.

Well, it's true if I believed they were supporting PC day one we wouldn't be having this discussion. But we all know they aren't supporting PC day one at the moment, so, it's just a really weird statement to make. And they've literally said flat out that they are sticking with the delayed approach for games like Spider-man 2 because they think it benefits the console business. 🤷‍♂️

Maybe you are Starborn and just got confused by a difference in this universe. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Taur007

Member
Exactly. Without their own platform, Microsoft will have to follow what Sony and Nintendo decide on the platform, creating a dependency on that.

Anyway, so far we have seen Sony fanboys reverse jinxing all the time (Phil will retire, ABK will not close etc.). Considering that they are constantly talking about Xbox going third party....

If you assume a 5 year turnaround cycle then everything is going to happen at that cadence. That's hardly a steady flow and that assumes that any successor project doesn't take even longer to greenlight and develop.

What I'm bemoaning is that MS have invested billions into continuity, not new dev. Why aren't they building new teams/studios with at least some of that immense warchest?

I'm just saying that if they were really serious about gaming creativity they'd be a lot less conservative with where they are putting their money. I really wonder sometimes if people fully grasp the sheer magnitude of their investment, they could fund 30 $200m+ budgeted AAA titles in their entirety just for what they've paid for ABK!
I mean they tried that with "the initiative" recently and look where it got them. Home growing studios is very hard, long and grueling process, good devs just don't fall out the sky, you either poach them or wait for them to become available. Sony bought majority of it's studios, they are not home grown either, they just happened at a time when no one cared about stuff like this, Nintendo is truly the only HG company . And yes I understand they can fund 30 games, but with all those studios just from Acti/blizz alone they can have their 30 games over the next 10 years that they will OWN.
 

Taur007

Member
Of course, AI is the future.


Hey Xbox stop pursuing being a Monopoly and exit the Console Market, so PlayStation can become a Monopoly. PlayStation GAF users are something else. With all those answers in this thread asking to Xbox going full third party, you know all that talk about the ABK Buyout about fear of becoming a Monopoly was pure hipocrisy.
Exactly, and crazy thing is...I would bet Xbox will be around longer than PS, they aren't as sustainable as people may think, they've pivoted towards gaas for a reason😂
 
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graywolf323

Member
A condition of the sale of Minecraft was that it would be on PlayStation. If they could have pulled it they would have. They've done it with all Bethesda games and they are only contractually obliged to keep COD.
heck we know they actually re-negotiated the contract for the Indiana Jones game to explicitly remove the obligation to make a PlayStation version…

it’s amazing the amount of FUD spread by the evangelists on here regarding Xbox’s willingness to put games on PlayStation
 

DForce

NaughtyDog Defense Force
LOL, if you feel better about yourself and want to take ownership of the "logic" you've been putting forward, you do you.

If you think Sony isn't delaying PC releases in an effort to stimulate console sales that's your problem. Multiple Sony executives have said as much point blank. That's what we were talking about. That isn't an opinion it is reality. That might change at some point, but that's how it stands today. It's not a position that can be debated.

If I think Sony isn't delaying PC releases in an effort to stimulate console sales that's my problem?

I said that's why they're doing it MULTIPLE times.

Do you realize I said it myself? You're the one who is saying this means they're not supporting PC.

In order to do BOTH without losing customers, you delay the release on PC.

You're NOT paying attention.


You knew this was what I was talking about from the beginning, or should have. As that is the only way the subject relates to console sales expectations.

You are certainly free to have whatever opinions you want, and I certainly don't care about those opinions (nor do you about mine). It is what it is.

Also, I literally quoted you verbatim here:

You're lying again. That's not what the argument is about.

You said Sony wants those PC gamers to buy a console

Sony wants those PC gamers to buy a console even if they only play 4 or 5 games on it over the course of the generation

I told you that's false because Sony isn't expecting the vast majority of those PC gamers to buy a console and that they're releasing games on PC to generate more revenue

Sony knows the vast majority of PC gamers won't move to PlayStation and that's why they're looking to expand to PC. It's an avenue to generate more sales and that's why they're doing it. If their main goal is for them to buy PlayStation consoles, then Sony wouldn't bother creating PS Now, which did not require a PlayStation console, but only a Streaming device.

Your response?

Not buying it. If they wanted to support PC natively the games would be there day one (all of them, not just the GaaS shovelware they want to dump out there), but they aren't because they know that would lower console demand.

You told me that you're not buying it and if they wanted to support PC they would release games day one.

I told you they were supporting it by releasing games on the platform and you repeated the same argument.

More simply, if they wanted to support PC and were not concerned about lowering console demand the games would be there day 1 to maximize return. Period.

If anyone says, "If they wanted to do X then they will be doing Y" then they're saying they're not currently doing X.

You tried to spin the narrative like you never tried to tell me that they weren't supporting PC with your terrible arguments.

I never said they weren't supporting PC

You got lost in your own twisted logic.

Well, it's true if I believed they were supporting PC day one we wouldn't be having this discussion. But we all know they aren't supporting PC day one at the moment, so, it's just a really weird statement to make. And they've literally said flat out that they are sticking with the delayed approach for games like Spider-man 2 because they think it benefits the console business. 🤷‍♂️

Maybe you are Starborn and just got confused by a difference in this universe. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

No. I said they're supporting PC by releasing games on the platform and you counted several times by saying, "If they were supporting PC" which means you didn't think they were doing it.

When people say Microsoft doesn't care about console sales, I tell them, "If Microsoft didn't care about console sales, then they would have never made the Xbox Series S." You tried to use the same thing in regards to PC sales and it didn't work.

Just don't argue based on flaw logic, something you often do on here.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
Just don't argue based on flaw logic, something you often do on here.

I really try to debate with sound logic, something I'm not seeing from you here in this discussion. But I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. :messenger_tears_of_joy: ( I'm seeing a lot of wiggling, but very little sound reasoning)

Again, I was talking about the difference in console sales expectations and how the differences between the two brands would change those.

My exact post:

MS and Sony are clearly working different strategies which would change the expectations for console sales.

Sony wants those PC gamers to buy a console even if they only play 4 or 5 games on it over the course of the generation, MS can not expect to get those sales since they launch on PC day one. Even if brand recognition was the same between the two companies, this difference alone would change console sales outcomes.

This is Sony's position at the moment. You are forced to buy a PS5 to play their biggest exclusives unless you plan on waiting quite a while. Sony has acknowledged this on several occasions. If you want to play Sony's games anywhere near release you need a PS5, that is not the case for Xbox. This is the difference in models that changes the sales expectations between the companies. Like I said, Spider-man 2 and Starfield are the perfect examples already. I stand by my statement, because it is simply the reality of the moment. If you disagree with me, please explain why Spider-man 2 isn't on PC right now. If you are agreeing with me than don't let the door hit you on the way out. I don't know what else to say about that.

Keep in mind that I was responding to your post here, which simply wasn't the case based on what we know.

We know how Microsoft felt going into this console generation and they believed they had a winning strategy.

You don't automatically ignore this because their strategy failed. Do you think the Xbox Series S wasn't designed to sell more consoles? Do you think having the power narrative wasn't important for Microsoft? Why do you think Phil was anxious about the PS5 spec reveal?

Because he was worried about Sony. They want to win. Period and you have to treat it as important.

We now know that their internal targets for Xbox Series were around 60m for the generation, they literally never expected to "win". Or maybe that's the wrong way to put it, they may want to "win" overall (in revenue, in profits, in market control, etc.) but they clearly didn't think they were winning console units this generation unless they figured the wheels were really going to fall off of Sony's cart. I'm sure they do want to sell as many units as they can and they were worried about how the series systems were going to launch given how X1 sales were going that last 18 months or so before the series systems launched. Selling products isn't an Olympic sport, they can absolutely be focused on extracting as many $ from their business as possible and maximizing growth without being consumed with needing to "win" against another company. It's not a zero sum game.

So, I'll agree with you on the points you made about them wanting to compete, and creating two consoles instead of one, and spending a lot of money on acquisitions, those things prove that Xbox/Gaming are important for MS and they are trying to compete (basically flat-lines the idea about them wanting to exit gaming - the arguments are good for that angle). That doesn't equal them necessarily needing to be #1. Even companies at #9 and #10 can still compete and try to grow also.
 
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Pelta88

Member
A condition of the sale of Minecraft was that it would be on PlayStation. If they could have pulled it they would have. They've done it with all Bethesda games and they are only contractually obliged to keep COD.

There is no indication of that. Not to mention with Bethesda they haven't removed anything that was available on Playstation.

People really are projecting whatever Sony tends to do.

This guy is arguing in bad faith. Purposely obfuscating the facts to fit his current argument. I'm disengaging.
 
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