• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Starfield in the polish/optimization stage of development

Interesting, I just found this.



I knew it was said before, but I never knew about this documentary. Now I want to watch the whole thing.


 
Last edited:

hevy007

Banned
Unreal is an example, but since you don't like that one, cross it off of the list and name another. Considering the size and scope of their games, I don't think it's as slow and cumbersome as you think, since the evidence proves otherwise and their games actually get released in a reasonable timeframe and in terms of scale of the world blows every other game out of the water. If these supposed new tech and workflows from your as-of-yet unnamed engine (but not Unreal) are so vastly superior, then where's the evidence to support that claim with perhaps an example game made with that engine that matches the ones that Bethesda produces?

No, the Creation Engine is more than adequate for their purposes, and is being constantly improved, switching wouldn't be better, just different in some ways, and for quite some time, far worse in terms of output.
Trust me when i say it is slow and cumbersome i'm not making that up, they have yet to make an "Next gen" with that engine, even fallout76 wasn't pbr based until recently and that's still a work in progress. I speak from experience. Unreal, unity, cryengine, any engine really, is more than capable of making a Bethesda style game there isn't anything special about it. You're free to think it is, but the people actually working with the engine on a day to day would beg to differ. like i said i know this all too well.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Interesting, I just found this.



I knew it was said before, but I never knew about this documentary. Now I want to watch the whole thing.




So you're saying Schreier was lying about a big publisher who blacklisted him in order to make them look bad?
shocked the princess bride GIF
 

dcmk7

Banned
Are you aware that he makes up bullshit about Bethesda because he as an agenda after they blacklisted him?
Tell me what does he gain from tweeting 'bullshit' in your words?

It takes a single tweet/article from Bethesda dismissing his claim to put a end to his FUD if that were to be the case.

Bit of a stupid take.
 

sainraja

Member
I wish they had shown a bit more than they have but I think that will most likely be addressed this year. If it's like Skyrim though, I might pass but will definitely be keeping an eye on this since I have grown into liking games that I never did like in the past and this is going to be sci-fi so that does interest me.

----------

I gotta love this whole gang who so love to project themselves on others. They are literally on a thread about a game in a platform they don't care about, calling others trolls. And I guess lick each others wounds.
unknown.png
Now you are just being sad. There was no fanboyism going on until the two of you entered. I won't say anymore than that. :D
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Actually their engine was quite good. There literally no other engine on the market with that level of moddability and world design. In fact some new UE5 features (like I forgot how it is called but basically tile based world) was in Creation Engine since the very beginning.
I am very looking forward Creation Engine 2. TES6 should also come sooner than we expect as they won't need to create new engine.
in term of mods, bethesda are number 1. They basically gave the modders access to their engine. Creation engine 2 would be available for modders. Since Bethesda allows modders to use their engine.

Tes6 is using the same engine as starfield.
 

dcmk7

Banned
There are two videos linked in this very thread that debunk his claim.

They say Maryland and Montreal's involvement was basically playtesting FO76 while Austin was the primary developer with Maryland working on Starfield.
You don't get that he gains nothing from lying.

I mean a single counter article from Bethesda calling him out would stop it - especially if he had an agenda.

But they haven't have they.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
No they didn't. You're pulling shit out of your ass

Go ahead and timestamp it then.

The first video linked is timestamped at that part.

You don't get that he gains nothing from lying.

I mean a single counter article from Bethesda calling him out would stop it - especially if he had an agenda.

But they haven't have they.

Doing that gives him the attention he craves. I doubt Hines would want that.
 
Last edited:

ManaByte

Gold Member
No it isn't. The first video itself tells you Maryland was in charge the creative side of the development. Austin was responsible for the online poriton

"Other than the time on the worldbuilding and the time when both studios were playing the game to make sure it was right, Austin was the main studio working on 76. The main Maryland studio was working on Starfield, at least in part, since 2013."

Timestamped:
 
Last edited:
"Other than the time on the worldbuilding and the time when both studios were playing the game to make sure it was right, Austin was the main studio working on 76. The main Maryland studio was working on Starfield, at least in part, since 2013."

Austin was getting the netcode built into 76 while Maryland in addition to Todd brainstorming the what 76 would be.

Again, there's nothing in the noclip documentary that supports the notion that Maryland were just playtesting. It literally ends it with "once 76 is released most of Maryland and Austin will move on to Starfield"
 
Last edited:

ManaByte

Gold Member
Austin was getting the netcode built into 76 while Maryland in addition to Todd brainstorming the what 76 would be

Again, there's nothing in the noclip documentary that supports the notion that. Maryland were just playtesting. It litterally ends it with "once 76 is release most of Maryland and Austin will move on to Starfield"

I timestamped that quote. It's on you if you want to ignore it.
 

kingfey

Banned
He's had no interviews confirming this. The exact opposite actually

They had supporting role for doom. then they worked on small game, which bethesda cancelled. After that they did fallout76.

While Maryland was helping them, they were busy with starfield, and the creation engine 2. Last game that studio released was 2015. Then they worked on starfield and the new engine.

If they did fallout 76, then starfield would have been delayed.

Remember that last of us 2, was made after uncharted 4. And Red dead redemption 2 took 8 years to make. If we factor these time line, then starfield work would have started around 2015. Working on another game, would have delayed starfield, to 2023-2024, considering there was a pandemic too. Especially with engine overhaul, and the game being a new IP.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member

They had supporting role for doom. then they worked on small game, which bethesda cancelled. After that they did fallout76.

While Maryland was helping them, they were busy with starfield, and the creation engine 2. Last game that studio released was 2015. Then they worked on starfield and the new engine.

If they did fallout 76, then starfield would have been delayed.

Remember that last of us 2, was made after uncharted 4. And Red dead redemption 2 took 8 years to make. If we factor these time line, then starfield work would have started around 2015. Working on another game, would have delayed starfield, to 2023-2024, considering there was a pandemic too. Especially with engine overhaul, and the game being a new IP.

This has been posted numerous times. People would rather believe a Tweet from Schreier over it.
 
Last edited:

They had supporting role for doom. then they worked on small game, which bethesda cancelled. After that they did fallout76.

While Maryland was helping them, they were busy with starfield, and the creation engine 2. Last game that studio released was 2015. Then they worked on starfield and the new engine.

If they did fallout 76, then starfield would have been delayed.

Remember that last of us 2, was made after uncharted 4. And Red dead redemption 2 took 8 years to make. If we factor these time line, then starfield work would have started around 2015. Working on another game, would have delayed starfield, to 2023-2024, considering there was a pandemic too. Especially with engine overhaul, and the game being a new IP.

Starfield has been in the works since at least 2015 in preproduction. Not full production. The whole of Maryland has not been working on Starfield for 8 years. Same for RDR2.
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Starfield has been in the works since at least 2015 in preproduction. Not full production. The whole of Maryland has not been working on Starfield for 8 years. Same for RDR2.
Starfield + new creation engine. With Fallout76 from creation engine.

That is where the mess started. Giving the game to SA, while focusing on starfield.
 
Starfield + new creation engine. With Fallout76 from creation engine.

That is where the mess started. Giving the game to SA, while focusing on starfield.

Full Maryland focus on Starfield happened after 76. Not before. Again this is confirmed in the noclip.

While the concepts and engine tech for Starfield is being built the rest of Maryland have to do something, that something was 76. It's standard practice.
 
Last edited:

Hawk269

Member
Sounds good to me. Usually Bethesda does not have this much time to polish a game....they have a good 10 months to keep squashing bugs and polish this game to a nice sheen. I still expect some Bethesda yank though...but I can't remember the last game that they did that had this much extra time to focus on polishing the game.
 

Banjo64

cumsessed
does anyone actually think this game will be as big as Obsidian or Skyrim? development time seems kinda short for a new IP.
No. Personally I don’t see a space theme capturing the hearts and minds like high fantasy does. I suspect this setting will be as good as Fallout, but TES is just different gravy with beautiful vistas and lore.

Looking forward to Avowed for this very reason.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
Same?


unknown.png



unknown.png

unknown.png

Maybe try thinking how these games were received when they were released? Go visit the Cyberpunk and Skyrim reveal trailer videos and read the comments. People are still praising the Skyrim reveal trailer while dunking out on the Cyberpunk reveal for being misleading.

I remember Cyberpunk had a 92 on Metacritic a week after launch, on PC. Immense backlash eventually pushed that down to 86, but the fact is you're obviously cherry picking a busted port to make a point.
 

SF Kosmo

Al Jazeera Special Reporter
So you're saying Schreier was lying about a big publisher who blacklisted him in order to make them look bad?
shocked the princess bride GIF
But he was right... It was nowhere near finished, it was shown at E3, and it did have a release date that was a year and a half away.

Which does not mean that this game is not currently in the a late-alpha "polishing" stage, as a game of this scope should be, some 10 months before it needs to go gold (mind you, Cyberpunk claimed the same thing a year before it released), but 7 months ago when people were claiming it would be a 2021 game, Schrier would have been correct to call them out...
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
Full Maryland focus on Starfield happened after 76. Not before. Again this is confirmed in the noclip.

While the concepts and engine tech for Starfield is being built the rest of Maryland have to do something, that something was 76. It's standard practice.
Do you think a game like starfield takes 4 years for the entire studio?
Who do you think built the tech, the concept for starfield? That was Maryland. They are the ones who worked on starfield.

"So partial production began after Oblivion shipped and full production began after Fallout 3 shipped. So overall it took around 6 years to make Skyrim. Fallout 4 began production right after Fallout 3 shipped, so Fallout 4 took around 7 years. So 6–7 years for most major Bethesda Game Studios games including Skyrim."

That is their flow. By that timeline, Starfield would mean, it started production in 2016, 2 years before fallout 76 was made. then you have to factor the 2020 lockdown, and we are in early 2022. That would mean 5 years production. Skyrim itself took 6 years to make. No way starfield would be less than skyrim, especially when the IP is brand new. While Skyrim had assets from older games.

This should coincide with the 2015 production for starfield. Since that game would make it 7 years (with 2020 lockdown) in 2022. Add that the engine production, and you get a whole a lot of messy schedule.

That explains why AS had to step in with fo76.
 
Do you think a game like starfield takes 4 years for the entire studio?
Who do you think built the tech, the concept for starfield? That was Maryland. They are the ones who worked on starfield.

"So partial production began after Oblivion shipped and full production began after Fallout 3 shipped. So overall it took around 6 years to make Skyrim. Fallout 4 began production right after Fallout 3 shipped, so Fallout 4 took around 7 years. So 6–7 years for most major Bethesda Game Studios games including Skyrim."

That is their flow. By that timeline, Starfield would mean, it started production in 2016, 2 years before fallout 76 was made. then you have to factor the 2020 lockdown, and we are in early 2022. That would mean 5 years production. Skyrim itself took 6 years to make. No way starfield would be less than skyrim, especially when the IP is brand new. While Skyrim had assets from older games.

This should coincide with the 2015 production for starfield. Since that game would make it 7 years (with 2020 lockdown) in 2022. Add that the engine production, and you get a whole a lot of messy schedule.

That explains why AS had to step in with fo76.

I don't even get what you're trying to argue with me here.

Skyrim releasing in 2011 = 3 years of full production + 3 years of preproduction

Starfield releasing in 2022 = 4 years of full production + 3 years of preproduction

Christ sake just compare the credits for Fallout 76 to Fallout 4. The leads are basically all Maryland
 
Last edited:

kingfey

Banned
But he was right... It was nowhere near finished, it was shown at E3, and it did have a release date that was a year and a half away.

Which does not mean that this game is not currently in the a late-alpha "polishing" stage, as a game of this scope should be, some 10 months before it needs to go gold (mind you, Cyberpunk claimed the same thing a year before it released), but 7 months ago when people were claiming it would be a 2021 game, Schrier would have been correct to call them out...
Cyberpunk had tons of content being cut, remade the whole game again, Assets of the game not being done. Its why the old gen was shit. The game aimed for high end pc graphics, and ignore the ps4/xbox one, considering the game was announced in 2013.


"The interview, which was held between French outlet Jeuxactu and lead cinematic animator Maciej Pietras, went over the early development timeline of the game. Though Cyberpunk 2077 was formally announced in January 2013 through a brief teaser trailer (following a tease of the game in 2012), it wasn’t until after the release of the first Witcher 3 expansion, Hearts of Stone, that work on Cyberpunk 2077 began in earnest. In fact, until The Witcher 3 was finished, it appears full production on Cyberpunk 2077 was pending to an extent."

"Pietras mentions that this was around 2014, though Hearts of Stone wasn’t released until October 13, 2015. In fact, The Witcher 3 itself wasn’t released until May 19, 2015, implying that either the year referenced in the interview wasn’t correct, or proper work really did begin prior to the release of The Witcher 3. However, soon after in the interview, Pietras says the team was entirely dedicated to the game from 2014 onward, suggesting a sizable team was already in place while The Witcher 3 was finishing production."

As for starfield, Tod Howard doesn't show his games, until E3, when they announce the game. That is when trailer starts to get released. That is how he operates. ES6 has a brief trailer card in 2018. So you are wrong about the production cycle.

People who stated the 2021 release date forgot the trailer date. Skyrim had a trailer in 2010, before releasing on 2011.


This pattern is the same for starfield. 2021 e3 trailer, then 2022 release date. Exactly release date as Skyrim.
 

kingfey

Banned
I don't even get what you're trying to argue with me here. You're just agreeing with me.

Skyrim releasing in 2011 = 3 years of full production + 3 years of preproduction

Starfield releasing in 2022 = 4 years of full production + 3 years of preproduction
Different is Skyrim has creation engine, and assets.

Starfield is a brand new Ip. meaning new assets. It also has creation engine 2.
 

kingfey

Banned
I don't even get what you're trying to argue with me here.

Skyrim releasing in 2011 = 3 years of full production + 3 years of preproduction

Starfield releasing in 2022 = 4 years of full production + 3 years of preproduction

Christ sake just compare the credits for Fallout 76 to Fallout 4. The leads are basically all Maryland
I found the article.


Back in 2018 Todd Howard said that the project had moved out of pre-production and was currently in a playable state internally. The teaser shown at E3 2018 was mostly designed to give us a sense of the game's atmosphere. In an interview with The Guardian, Howard says, "We’ve been talking about it for a decade, we started putting things on paper five, six years ago, and active development was from when we finished Fallout 4, so two and a half, three years.”
 
I found the article.


Back in 2018 Todd Howard said that the project had moved out of pre-production and was currently in a playable state internally. The teaser shown at E3 2018 was mostly designed to give us a sense of the game's atmosphere. In an interview with The Guardian, Howard says, "We’ve been talking about it for a decade, we started putting things on paper five, six years ago, and active development was from when we finished Fallout 4, so two and a half, three years.”

Dude, I don't get what argument you're trying to make. It entered full production in 2018 as repeatedly stated and the article confirms
 
Last edited:

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Now you are just being sad. There was no fanboyism going on until the two of you entered. I won't say anymore than that.
Its always fanboys trying to enter every conversation and prove everyone else they don't like is fanboys.
I won't say anymore than that.
You always say that when you are up to some conspiracy.
I know why the OP made this thread but I won't say it.
 

abcdrstuv

Banned
Trust me when i say it is slow and cumbersome i'm not making that up, they have yet to make an "Next gen" with that engine, even fallout76 wasn't pbr based until recently and that's still a work in progress. I speak from experience. Unreal, unity, cryengine, any engine really, is more than capable of making a Bethesda style game there isn't anything special about it. You're free to think it is, but the people actually working with the engine on a day to day would beg to differ. like i said i know this all too well.
Ubisoft manages to crank out big games with not even half as many bugs as Bethesda's. They're overloaded with fetch quests and collectibles, which is easy, but not sure why it takes Bethesda so much longer. Scattering collectibles and scattering junk to pick up off tables don't seem very different. Bethesda's worlds show more care in design, but that can't be what doubles or triples production time.. So Bethesda's engine makes a flawed product and is more difficult and time-consuming to work with? Great management. I guess they think a transition is just too risky? Frostbite bombed for a few of the EA teams who tried to use it..
 

hevy007

Banned
Ubisoft manages to crank out big games with not even half as many bugs as Bethesda's. They're overloaded with fetch quests and collectibles, which is easy, but not sure why it takes Bethesda so much longer. Scattering collectibles and scattering junk to pick up off tables don't seem very different. Bethesda's worlds show more care in design, but that can't be what doubles or triples production time.. So Bethesda's engine makes a flawed product and is more difficult and time-consuming to work with? Great management. I guess they think a transition is just too risky? Frostbite bombed for a few of the EA teams who tried to use it..
Good point, ubisoft makes massive games. Is anyone even looking to make Bethesda style games is the real question, nobody seems to be copying them but they definitely are looking to copy others, that was what FO76 was all about. So these big gargantuan games that only bethesda can do,,,is because nobody else really wants to do them. They make more money doing GAAS type games. Which funny enough has its roots in horse armor. Full circle.

Todd doesn't like Unreal for whatever reason, it's completely his decision as to why they keep using CE.
 
Ubisoft manages to crank out big games with not even half as many bugs as Bethesda's. They're overloaded with fetch quests and collectibles, which is easy, but not sure why it takes Bethesda so much longer. Scattering collectibles and scattering junk to pick up off tables don't seem very different. Bethesda's worlds show more care in design, but that can't be what doubles or triples production time.. So Bethesda's engine makes a flawed product and is more difficult and time-consuming to work with? Great management. I guess they think a transition is just too risky? Frostbite bombed for a few of the EA teams who tried to use it..

Ubisoft has way more manpower than bethesa
 

sainraja

Member
Its always fanboys trying to enter every conversation and prove everyone else they don't like is fanboys.

You always say that when you are up to some conspiracy.
Nah, lately I have just been calling out those who like to call out others pretending they themselves don't exhibit the same behavior — the very thing you are demonstrating extraordinarily. It's silly & childish and you guys rinse & repeat this behavior over and over again. It's tiring to see it repeated. If you want me to say more, you can PM me. :D
 
Fallout 76 polish stage took about 2 years but they sorta released it before it got to that point

Imagine the game came out and was amazing and had minimal bugs........
The Rock Reaction GIF
 

kingfey

Banned
It was in full production after, or shortly before 76. You only need a handful of staff to get a "playable version" of a game
Did you forgot about the new engine? Its not just a handful staff that is working on a new brand game, and new Engine. That is not small number of employees.

Lets see the time line here.

On October 7, 2015, Battle cry studio (Known as Bethesda studio Austin, SA) halted the development on BattleCry game, to work on different projects.

On November 2015, fallout 4 was released.

SA helped the modification and restructuring of Bethesda's Creation Engine after Battle cry was halted. They worked with Maryland on fallout 76 MP, along side ID.

Maryland started CE2, and Starfield early production along side it. With SA helping them with f076, they had their full eyes on starfield and creation engine 2.

in 2016, SA replaced Certain Affinity on assisting id Software with development of post-release multiplayer content for doom.

in 2017, Rich Vogel the president of Bethesda Studio Austin (SA) left the company, to join certain affinity, who worked on doom MP.

June 2018, Starfield had a teaser trailer for their game. During that time, the game was in playable state.

November 2018, fallout 76 was released.

2018, Battlecry studio got renamed to Bethesda studio Austin. (Which is why there is no record of bethesda Austin).

Post 2018, Maryland studio went full production on starfield.

That is the time line we know.


 
Did you forgot about the new engine? Its not just a handful staff that is working on a new brand game, and new Engine. That is not small number of employees.

Lets see the time line here.

On October 7, 2015, Battle cry studio (Known as Bethesda studio Austin, SA) halted the development on BattleCry game, to work on different projects.

On November 2015, fallout 4 was released.

SA helped the modification and restructuring of Bethesda's Creation Engine after Battle cry was halted. They worked with Maryland on fallout 76 MP, along side ID.

Maryland started CE2, and Starfield early production along side it. With SA helping them with f076, they had their full eyes on starfield and creation engine 2.

in 2016, SA replaced Certain Affinity on assisting id Software with development of post-release multiplayer content for doom.

in 2017, Rich Vogel the president of Bethesda Studio Austin (SA) left the company, to join certain affinity, who worked on doom MP.

June 2018, Starfield had a teaser trailer for their game. During that time, the game was in playable state.

November 2018, fallout 76 was released.

2018, Battlecry studio got renamed to Bethesda studio Austin. (Which is why there is no record of bethesda Austin).

Post 2018, Maryland studio went full production on starfield.

That is the time line we know.



No, i've already said this. The majority of maryland are not needed for engine upgrades. This is what preproduction is for. Same thing they did when moving from Fallout 3 to Skyrim.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Nah, lately I have just been calling out those who like to call out others pretending they themselves don't exhibit the same behavior — the very thing you are demonstrating extraordinarily. It's silly & childish and you guys rinse & repeat this behavior over and over again. It's tiring to see it repeated. If you want me to say more, you can PM me. :D
I won't say anymore than that.
Hey look, you crowned yourself the fanboy police.
It's silly & childish and you guys rinse & repeat this behavior over and over again.
Yeah, just like you getting concerned in every thread.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom